✅ SOLVED Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

[musclecar]

I found this in Alaska about 10 years ago, and have never been able to ID it. It is an aluminum piece, about 3 inches square. It has 15 teeth and is numbered 1-15. There is a stop preventing it from spinning freely. The back has two tabs that may have been used to mount it. ANY GUESSES?

Thanks,

MC

PS The quarter used for size was found yesterday! 1935S Yeah!

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BigCy ~

Good morning. I was hoping you might be interested in doing another experiment with the tallying device. I'm providing the link to Bramblefind's original discovery so you won't have to back track to find it. Or perhaps you have already printed it which would be even easier. In any event, read paragraph 55 where it discusses the "card" for recording the tally information. I realize our item in question is different than this one that has a plate as part of the design, but I just have to believe that any such device would have a record card associated with it. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense to keep a tally and not have some convienient place to record it. There is no way that your everyday egg gatherer is going to remember everything, nor do I believe he is going to record it elsewhere.

Thus, the experiment I have in mind is to attach the device to the cage wire again, only this time slip an index/recipe type card under the two flat tabs on the side to see how securly it might fit. Try it a couple of different ways if necessary, such as under the two tabs but still on top of the flange part next to the two flat tabs I still believe it's an egg tallying device, and if this experiment works as I hope it will, it will reinforce this belief. A photo of what you come up with would also be helpful.

Plus, if this works, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere along the line someone invented a special pencil on a chain that attached some where on the device itself, or on the cage.

I hope this isn't asking too much, and will look forward to your response.

Thanks much,

Bob

P.S. I think we all agree it mounted to the cage sideways where the numbers could be read upright, thus placing the index card on the side where I believe it should be.

Bramblefind's link > http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I can try it but it fits tight and I doubt an index card will fit underneath the little tabs. Even if it did fit, it would be a very poor writing surface with the bumps and fence underneath. But Ill try it later.

Also how would a person write inside the cage?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BigCy ~

Thanks. It is my belief the device mounted "outside" of the cage. And probably high up somewhere out of the chicken's reach. Chickens are notorious for pecking at anything and everything in sight, thus the risk of hitting the finger wheel and moving it.

BOB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

BigCy ~

Thanks. It is my belief the device mounted "outside" of the cage. And probably high up somewhere out of the chicken's reach. Chickens are notorious for pecking at anything and everything in sight, thus the risk of hitting the finger wheel and moving it.

BOB

If it cant be mounted on the outside of the cage because a chicken would peck at it, it would defeat our entire theory wouldnt it?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"NEWS FLASH!"

This is another one of those subjects that is a little difficult to explain, but I will do my best to make it easily understandable. And this comes from my dad again, who has more of an understanding of "Poultry Science" that I was previously aware of.

To start with, he assumed we all understood that poultry farmers, (at least during the 1920s, 30s and 40s) had little or no time to be keeping track of the individual production of thousands upon thousands of chickens, and that almost everything involved along these lines was done on a "percentage basis." Dad expounded by saying that any true-blue poultryman, (including any hired worker who knew his/her stuff), could spot a non producing hen a country mile away. He said these non/low producers were called "setters," and that even in the cages where there were no real nest to speak of and only had wire mesh bottoms, these setters would just sit in the corner somewhere as if waiting for something to happen that never did. Thus, they were immediately yanked from the cage and sold or prepared for dinner that evening.

Please note dad admits changes have occurred over the years, and that text references on patents refer to tallying devices being attached to cages, but he strongly believes that any kind of cage mounted egg counting devise was not used on an everyday basis on everyday farms who sometimes had tens of thousands of laying hens. He said there was just no (mass produced) "need" for it! A "setter" was a "setter," and that's how my grandfather and everone else in the county "culled" (got rid of) their non producing hens.

However ...

Dad added that most poultry farmers (then and now) were/are members of various poultry organizations whose primary role was to find better ways of maintaining healthier chickens for the sole purpose of producing more eggs. These poultry organizations did all kinds of research that can only be described as "Poultry Science." Dad said that my grandfather, as well as every other poultryman in the county who was a member, were required to provide ten randomly selected "layer's." Dad emphasied this randon selection because it was intended to fall into the overall percentage factor previously mentioned. And then the poultry organization would keep these "layer's" under close observation for about a year, keeping track primarily of their egg production, and accordingly would arrive at which farmer was raising the best laying hens. And when this was determined (whether it was the feed the farmer was using or whatever) they would breed and cross-breed the best of the best hens until they had the highest egg producing hens that money could buy. Note: Dad said that the same particular feed mix used by a particular farmer was the only thing allowed to be given to his particular hens. The farmer's/members were also required in various ways to participate in the testing. He said members had to pay fees for this type of research, and it just so happened that my grandfather's hens took first place one year, and within a period of time they were developing and hatching chicks directly from my grandfather's "strain." (I intend to research this and see if I can find any records).

Bottom Line ... ?

Dad is strongly of the opinion that most of these so called "Tallying Devices" were intended for labratory, (Poultry Organization) use and to him this would be a very logical place to search for a possible identification.

"Poultry Science/Labratory/Poultry Organizations"

I'm sorry this was so long, but this is in response to ...

"Everything you ever wanted to know about chickens but were afraid to ask."

BOB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think the reason we cannot find an exact match because this is a patented invention that was not needed.

 

[Bramblefind]

I think the reason we cannot find an exact match because this is a patented invention that was not needed.

Ok here is a snippet page from the 1956 Poultry Tribune that I referenced before-

 

[Goodyguy]

At this point I am convinced that it is a counter that was designed to mount onto a wire cage as a tallying device for something, either dosages, or time intervals, or eggs laid, or whatever.

What puzzles me is whether it was designed with a specific use in mind or generic in nature. The small number 15 that cannot be reached chronologically because of the stop, but can be pointed to before going to the number one after resetting the dial still has me baffled.

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

I want to send out a special thank you to Big Cy, SODABOTTLEBOB, and everyone else for all your time effort and energy spent on working to find a positive ID on this "Thang"

It is one of those things that you feel shouldn't be that hard to identify and it drives you nuts trying because it seems like it should be so easy.

Somewhere, somehow, someone, will identify what this thang is and I will be so glad when this mystery is laid to rest once and for all.
But with that said, until then I am satisfied that the "thang" is just a "cage mounted counter"

GG~

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BigCy ~ Bramblefind ~ GoodGuy ~ And All

~ THANKS ~

I too am convinced of the two week tracking system. As for the other information I posted earlier, I'm just trying to keep my dad involved as he is 88 years old and not in the best of health. But he does have a considerable amount of hands on experience with poultry, even if it was 70+ years ago. He is really getting a big kick out of this whole thing, and it pleases me to see him take an interest in something new.

I'm beginning to think, and trying to convince my dad as well, that what he recalls from the earlier years involving labratory tracking, counting, etc., were likely some of the first significant advances being made in this whole Poultry Sience field, and that the device in question may very well have been one of the inventions that resulted from all of those years of research. But the point he's trying to make is, (in his own words) "They never had nothing like that when I was a kid!" Which, if nothing else, may help to establish a date of the invention as being after World War II. (I realize we already suspect this, but convincing my dad of that is a little more complicated).

But ...

Since nothing has been found yet, it certainly couldn't hurt to take a look at some of that Poultry Association research, and see if anything turns up. And I apologize again for not having the time to do more research myself, but circumstances lately make it almost impossible. If dad comes up with any more "brain-storms", I'll be sure to post it. (But, please take it with a grain of salt). By the way, before retirement dad spent 40+ years working for a major gas and electric company as an operations superintendant/engineer involved with the design and installation of numerous transmission lines, many of which were major projects and still in use today.

Thanks again,

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

What puzzles me is whether it was designed with a specific use in mind or generic in nature. The small number 15 that cannot be reached chronologically because of the stop, but can be pointed to before going to the number one after resetting the dial still has me baffled.

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Because you mentioned it, I have been studying your tab. I believe the stop tab is put exactly where it is so it can start properly on zero. Here it is on start up position zero (pointer on small #15).



The second pic goes from zero to #1.



Here it is hitting the tab after #14. Like you say, the pointer cannot reach #15.

At this point the counting is over and the wheel needs to be turned back. It needs reset back to zero (small #15). If that makes any sense. It probably should say zero but its also a theoretical #15.

It could also be used as a ONE MONTH COUNTER where you need to reset the wheel to #15 and start over..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

BigCy ~

Good morning. I was hoping you might be interested in doing another experiment with the tallying device. I'm providing the link to Bramblefind's original discovery so you won't have to back track to find it. Or perhaps you have already printed it which would be even easier. In any event, read paragraph 55 where it discusses the "card" for recording the tally information. I realize our item in question is different than this one that has a plate as part of the design, but I just have to believe that any such device would have a record card associated with it. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense to keep a tally and not have some convienient place to record it. There is no way that your everyday egg gatherer is going to remember everything, nor do I believe he is going to record it elsewhere.

Thus, the experiment I have in mind is to attach the device to the cage wire again, only this time slip an index/recipe type card under the two flat tabs on the side to see how securly it might fit. Try it a couple of different ways if necessary, such as under the two tabs but still on top of the flange part next to the two flat tabs I still believe it's an egg tallying device, and if this experiment works as I hope it will, it will reinforce this belief. A photo of what you come up with would also be helpful.

Plus, if this works, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere along the line someone invented a special pencil on a chain that attached some where on the device itself, or on the cage.

I hope this isn't asking too much, and will look forward to your response.

Thanks much,

Bob

P.S. I think we all agree it mounted to the cage sideways where the numbers could be read upright, thus placing the index card on the side where I believe it should be.

Bramblefind's link > http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ

An index card will not slip under the 2 tabs easily when connected to a fence. The part that broke off may be some kind of clip. The device is too small for an index card so I used a business card for a pic.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

At this point I am convinced that it is a counter that was designed to mount onto a wire cage as a tallying device for something, either dosages, or time intervals, or eggs laid, or whatever.

What puzzles me is whether it was designed with a specific use in mind or generic in nature. The small number 15 that cannot be reached chronologically because of the stop, but can be pointed to before going to the number one after resetting the dial still has me baffled.

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

GG~

I believe its a 2 week counter and the #15 is there to for the option to be used as a one month counter. I added this to my post above. When the egg count hits #15 you need to reset the wheel counterclockwise and continue counting...
(just add the second wheel count onto the first wheel count of 15).

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 reset wheel to 15 and keep counting adding the additional duckie eggs onto the previous 15...

Bramblefinds patent uses 2 wheels for an improved counting method. Or maybe the Alaskan find is the improved simpler version.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

This may be of interest to someone who is interested in looking into it.

It's the official site of the U.S. Poultry & Egg Association.

I just sent them an e-mail inquiry with attached photos, and will let you know if/when I hear back from them. If anyone knows whether the item is poultry related or not, they should.

Regarding the site itself, I only had time to read their history, but also discovered that by looking under "Research/Learn More," a search box comes up that, with the right word combination, may produce something. But I recommend terms like "Egg Production" and/or "Research" as opposed to terms like, "Egg Tallying Device," which produced zero results when I tried it.

Bob

http://www.poultryegg.org/index.cfm

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BigCy ~

Thanks for the experiment with the business card, but unless I explained it wrong, I was thinking of something more along these lines. Pardon my draftsmenship, and the oversized image, but this is the best I could do. I honestly don't know how to reduce the size of the image. But if someone was willing to do it for me, I will remove this one.

Thanks,

Bob

P.S. Please see next post for reduced image.

Thanks 72cheyenne ... One of these days I'm going to figure that stuff out.

 

[72cheyenne]

here ya go

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I just now recieved two seperate e-mails from two different departments of the U.S. Poultry Association in Washington D.C. Both said they were forwarding my inquiry around for various people to take a look at. Keep your fingers crossed, and hopefully we will hear back from them soon.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

BigCy ~

Thanks for the experiment with the business card, but unless I explained it wrong, I was thinking of something more along these lines. Pardon my draftsmenship, and the oversized image, but this is the best I could do. I honestly don't know how to reduce the size of the image. But if someone was willing to do it for me, I will remove this one.

Thanks,

Bob

P.S. Please see next post for reduced image.

Thanks 72cheyenne ... One of these days I'm going to figure that stuff out.

I reread it and I see now you said "flat" tabs. Its a possibility, I guess, and it would explain the reason the long flat rectangular tabs are not bent. But if you dont bend these tabs up around the wire cage, it may not secure as well, unless the flat tabs are the bottom. I will have to try it. I didnt mail the package back yet, if I get a chance Ill rip it open.

 

[Goodyguy]

I have always thought that those tabs were meant to fit under the wires on a cage for a more secure mounting.

Like so:



I also like Big Cy's explanation of why the 15 is located where it is. That makes sense to extend the count to 30
It had to be significant or else why even have it on there.

GG~

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have always thought that those tabs were meant to fit under the wires on a cage for a more secure mounting.

Like so:

That may explain why they are not bent.

 

[Goodyguy]

The next question is, what were these used for?