✅ SOLVED Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

[musclecar]

I found this in Alaska about 10 years ago, and have never been able to ID it. It is an aluminum piece, about 3 inches square. It has 15 teeth and is numbered 1-15. There is a stop preventing it from spinning freely. The back has two tabs that may have been used to mount it. ANY GUESSES?

Thanks,

MC

PS The quarter used for size was found yesterday! 1935S Yeah!

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

But whatever it was intended to be mounted to, I'm convinced the back of it had to be accessable, otherwise it would have been extremely difficult, (if not impossible), to bend the two top tabs down.

BENDABLEBOB

Im not sure what you mean but the 2 top tabs do not have to be bent. I clips perfectly onto a cage. I didnt bend anything.

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm just "speculating" for a moment that it may not have been intended for a cage, but rather that the two backside tabs slipped into two slots on "something metal" and then were bent down afterwards. I realize the way it is now it just hooks on. But since we are not 100% positive yet as to what it actually is, it's still possible that one of any number of earlier suggestions may be right, and that the egg tally idea is wrong. So I'm just wondering, if it's not intended to be mounted on a cage, what other ideas may be floating around out there. As much as anyone I want to believe it's a cage mounted egg tallying device - but I'll be danged if I can prove it! And believe me, I'm trying. The thing that's missing here is "solid evidence," and I guess that's what mystifies me most.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

[Goodyguy]

I'll bet someone in Soldotna Alaska would be able to identify it, wonder if someone in a historical society there would know?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I'm just "speculating" for a moment that it may not have been intended for a cage, but rather that the two backside tabs slipped into two slots on "something metal" and then were bent down afterwards. I realize the way it is now it just hooks on. But since we are not 100% positive yet as to what it actually is, it's still possible that one of any number of earlier suggestions may be right, and that the egg tally idea is wrong. So I'm just wondering, if it's not intended to be mounted on a cage, what other ideas may be floating around out there.
Bob

I understand what you are saying but the two arrow type tabs on "top" are pretty strong and do not look as if they will bend easily by hand. They actually have a curl to them. My little cardboard experiment proved that it was very hard, almost impossible for me to attach these tabs into slots (in their current position). The "bottom" rectangular tabs appear easier to bend but they look as if they never were.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Presently I'm putting all of my eggs in the Lou Arrington basket. I just gotta believe he's looking into it, and that we will hear back from him eventually. Here is part of the e-mail reply I received from Paul Pressley, who is vice president of The Poultry and Egg Institute. If the vice president of an institue asked me to research something, I'm pretty sure I would do it, just as I believe Mr. Arrington will ... I hope!

Bob

Copy/Pasted from e-mail ...

I am copying Mr. Arrington and forwarding the photos to his attention.

(Lou, for your information, I could not directly open the two .bmp files but was successful in copying and pasting them into a Word document).

Thank you for your interest.

Paul

Paul W. Pressley
Vice President
The Poultry & Egg Institute
U.S. Poultry & Egg Association
1530 Cooledge Road
Tucker, GA 30084-7303
678-514-1972 (direct)
770.493.9401
770-403-0510 (cell)
ppressley@poultryegg.org

 

[wwace]

Ok guys, I have followed this thread off and on for a couple years and I think I will throw my opinion in the hat. First I live in Anchorage, (for 34+ yrs)(Soldotna wasn't much of a town when I first went thru in 1962), and have alot of experience with Alaska household type stuff from the era of this device. Sorry to say but the chicken counter does not make any sense whatsoever to me. The Kenai peninsula was not widely settled before the 1960's. I would say the device was made in the 50's or 60's. Before WWII there were not many things commonly made from aluminum. The 50's and 60's were the golden age for aluminum, it was cheap and plentiful. The Soldotna area does have some farms but has never had any large scale poultry operations to my knowledge. Alot of rural households probably had chickens though, and like another poster said the "setters" would quickly end up as dinner. The chickens would usually run loose and have a coop to roost in at night. Nobody I know who has chickens keeps them penned separately so they would not know or care who layed how many eggs. Any wire would have been "chicken wire" the kind you see with hexagonal shaped openings. The area is mostly known for the famous Kenai river, probably the premier salmon river in the world. I have certainly had great times fishing there myself. My guess is that this is part of device for temperature control. The single most important thing about living in Alaska is staying warm. The item would have had a cover like the cardboard one above where the setting could be viewed. The tabs would have went in slots in the cover, the hooks would have attached the device to whatever it controlled, there would be a spring or a bimetal thermostat coil attached to the tab on the dial. I have seen similar dials in old electric baseboard heat registers. Less likely is that it was on a wood or coal burning stove or cooktop. I remember seeing a mechanical flue damper control that was controlled by a device similar to what I am describing though. Most homes on the Kenai Peninsula from the 50's to the 80's would have had electric or wood heat with quite a few having both to save money on the electric bill. Natural gas probably became more widely available after the mid 70's, I converted quite a few houses and apartments buildings from electric to gas heat as some homes cost up to $1000 a month to heat with electricity in the winter here, and that was in the 70's. Anyway lots of heat registers got thrown out in the woods I am sure during that era. Also if it was associated with a woodstove flue they commonly need to be replaced due to rusting out in our moist climate. Anyway I have not tried to find pictures of what I described but I am pretty sure that's what it is. I was sure two yrs ago when I first saw the post. Hell if the original finder would tell me exactly where it was found I will hop in the truck come May when it thaws out and detect the area for the rest of the pieces.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ok guys, I have followed this thread off and on for a couple years and I think I will throw my opinion in the hat. First I live in Anchorage, (for 34+ yrs)(Soldotna wasn't much of a town when I first went thru in 1962), and have alot of experience with Alaska household type stuff from the era of this device. Sorry to say but the chicken counter does not make any sense whatsoever to me. The Kenai peninsula was not widely settled before the 1960's. I would say the device was made in the 50's or 60's. Before WWII there were not many things commonly made from aluminum. The 50's and 60's were the golden age for aluminum, it was cheap and plentiful. The Soldotna area does have some farms but has never had any large scale poultry operations to my knowledge. Alot of rural households probably had chickens though, and like another poster said the "setters" would quickly end up as dinner. The chickens would usually run loose and have a coop to roost in at night. Nobody I know who has chickens keeps them penned separately so they would not know or care who layed how many eggs. Any wire would have been "chicken wire" the kind you see with hexagonal shaped openings. The area is mostly known for the famous Kenai river, probably the premier salmon river in the world. I have certainly had great times fishing there myself. My guess is that this is part of device for temperature control. The single most important thing about living in Alaska is staying warm. The item would have had a cover like the cardboard one above where the setting could be viewed. The tabs would have went in slots in the cover, the hooks would have attached the device to whatever it controlled, there would be a spring or a bimetal thermostat coil attached to the tab on the dial. I have seen similar dials in old electric baseboard heat registers. Less likely is that it was on a wood or coal burning stove or cooktop. I remember seeing a mechanical flue damper control that was controlled by a device similar to what I am describing though. Most homes on the Kenai Peninsula from the 50's to the 80's would have had electric or wood heat with quite a few having both to save money on the electric bill. Natural gas probably became more widely available after the mid 70's, I converted quite a few houses and apartments buildings from electric to gas heat as some homes cost up to $1000 a month to heat with electricity in the winter here, and that was in the 70's. Anyway lots of heat registers got thrown out in the woods I am sure during that era. Also if it was associated with a woodstove flue they commonly need to be replaced due to rusting out in our moist climate. Anyway I have not tried to find pictures of what I described but I am pretty sure that's what it is. I was sure two yrs ago when I first saw the post. Hell if the original finder would tell me exactly where it was found I will hop in the truck come May when it thaws out and detect the area for the rest of the pieces.

Thank you....thank you...thank you!!!

What a wonderful breath of fresh air!!!

Thanks for posting wwace. We have already discussed the possibility of a bimetal thermostat coil attaching to the tab. Is this the type spring you are referring to?

I studied this item very closely with a loupe and there appears to be no scratches, rust or markings to verify that the tab was ever attached to anything. The only marking I could find was on the backside and appears to be made from a rivet set. I dont understand where it would attach.

Im willing to take a second look at this possibility. SWR has been trying to push the thermostat idea from day one. I wish you and SWR would please draw a diagram explaining both your ideas so we can take a closer look... Thanks.


Ill send a PM to musclecar, the original finder.

 

[Bramblefind]

Thanks WW Certainly have to give a lot of weight to your input considering your knowledge of the location.

I just want to add that what prompted me to looks more closely at the chicken/egg angle was an article I found from Spring 1958 from the Fairbanks newspaper. It was describing a meeting had by the local poultry raisers and the only name listed for Soldotna was Frank Mullen (I found those pictures of him and his wife at his farm in the 1950s in the Alaska archives - i think it was around page 11).

Unfortunately I'm having trouble accessing that newspaper article again - Ancestry. com is not working right - but when I am able to get to it perhaps I will be able to post it here.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ok guys, I have followed this thread off and on for a couple years and I think I will throw my opinion in the hat. First I live in Anchorage, (for 34+ yrs)(Soldotna wasn't much of a town when I first went thru in 1962), and have alot of experience with Alaska household type stuff from the era of this device. Sorry to say but the chicken counter does not make any sense whatsoever to me.
...The Soldotna area does have some farms but has never had any large scale poultry operations to my knowledge. Alot of rural households probably had chickens though, and like another poster said the "setters" would quickly end up as dinner. The chickens would usually run loose and have a coop to roost in at night. Nobody I know who has chickens keeps them penned separately so they would not know or care who layed how many eggs. Any wire would have been "chicken wire" the kind you see with hexagonal shaped openings.

I never thought it was from a large poultry farm. It was found at a 50's homestead. I can see that the chickens would have enough land to run loose but could there be a time that they would be caged?

I would imagine this device could clip to any type chicken wire but I havent tried it. I think Goodyguy may have..

I was going to send the package back tommorrow morning. I may have to rip it open and try a few tests. Like Bramblefind says we have to give a lot of weight to your input considering your knowledge of the location.

Looking forward to any pics or diagrams you can provide..

 

[Bramblefind]

Ok I had to switch browsers to get the article. It was big so I am not sure how well this will post but Francis E. Mullen of Soldotna is listed with "those who raise poultry for commerical egg production".

Article is March 27, 1958-

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

SWR has been trying to push the thermostat idea from day one. I wish you and SWR would please draw a diagram explaining both your ideas so we can take a closer look... Thanks.

Trying to push the thermostat idea from day one........you make it sound like having a different opinion of a yet still unidentified object is a bad thing.

No its a very good thing. I said while I have the item I am willing to take a second(or third) look. The most logical explanation is thermostat but I need a diagram explaining how this item would connect because I dont know.

 

[robinfla52]

My grandson led me to this as I am pretty good at researching things. This is a puzzler, but one guess I have is that it is an f-stop for an old camera. I am still trying to find a source to verify this. I am thinking of asking a camera expert or somebody like that.

 

[intimer]

dial up...f-stop! hope hope hope...!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My grandson led me to this as I am pretty good at researching things. This is a puzzler, but one guess I have is that it is an f-stop for an old camera. I am still trying to find a source to verify this. I am thinking of asking a camera expert or somebody like that.

Welcome. We hope you can help.

We have researched the camera idea. The sprocket wont line up with the holes in the film for one thing. It may be a drop plate camera counter. Youll have to try using the search option or scroll back. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?action=search2

 

[serb535]

wow, it took me quite a while to read all 13 pages of post on this topic!! Kudos to those who have spent hours and years on this! thought it was interesting that this post started back in nov of 06 and is still going!!! kand wait to find out the answer....

 

[pronghorn]

If the extended piece in question was not cut or broken, what do you think the purpose would be for it?(2) In other words, in your opinion why is it even there?

Okay BigCH I have studied the photo again and I think I can
shed some light on the extended piece labeled by the red
1 in this photo.




As I said before, I believe this item was mass produced.
It is my opinion that this item was stamped and cut from
long flat aluminum stock that was the width of the item from
top to bottom in the photo. It would be cut to length
at point 1and point 2.
If you flatten the tab at 1 and
match it to point 2 it looks like they would match up in
width. I'm not good enough at photesuite to do this in
a picture, I hope you understand what I am trying to
propose. It may have been bent up the way it is to remove
it from the die or mold that it was stamped into. I don't know.
Does this make any sense?
I don't know why the tab was left on the item but since it was,
it had to be bent over to allow finger access to the points on
the numbered dial. Then again I could be wrong, just speculating.
I also noticed a small scrape or grove between the 3's
that looks like it was
made after the manufacturing process. The interesting thing
to me is that if you follow the line of the scrape it appears to
line up directly with the nick on the bent tab

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I also believe it was mass produced but I dont know why they would bend the tab over instead of just cutting it off, unless to make an optional hanging alternative. My theory also explains the lack of any manufacturers mark as it may have been on the cut off piece. The possible missing part would not have been very long.

Thanks for responding and taking the time to number the picture with your ideas. How do you put it all on the left side of the screen?

What you say makes sense and I may have to cut open the package to take another look at these new developments.

 

[wwace]

Thanks for the welcome guys, I am not much into posting but prefer to lurk around usually trying to expand my knowledge pool, As I said I read this post when it was new and the fact that it's still alive prompted me to post.

Also it is my opinion that this piece has nothing to do with a camera, even relatively primitive mass produced cameras had much smaller more advanced machining than this large, cheaply made item reflects. Cameras tend to have better engineering than our item indicates, Remember that disposable products were not very popular until the 70's, cameras and most other similar items were constructed to last a lifetime. My idea (and SWR's) about the bimetal coil may not be correct also as the wheel would have to stay in place once it was adjusted. As there is not an easy way to see how tension would be applied to the dial a spring or other mechanism attached to a rheostat(or something else) would make more sense I think. Also there may not be any marks at attachment points because many electric devices use a thin paper "gasket" between moving parts. Also the edge of the tab on the face of the wheel may have fit into a "Bakelite" piece or something else that would not necessarily leave marks. The missing "link" is what you need to visualize. Without the missing pieces available people are tending to simplify their ideas lending them to believe it is a counter since they can see the numbers and wheel only.

Also my congratulations on finding a poultry farmer, I sensed that as soon as I posted that somebody would prove me wrong. As the title of the article states Alaska imported 90% of our eggs and we still do. I still fail to see how or why something like this would be used in poultry farms. Imagine going into your very dark henhouse with maybe a kerosene lamp and collecting a basket of eggs, I can't see anyone fumbling around trying to adjust a counter in that circumstance. If they were keeping track of egg production they would have noted the days production once they and the eggs were safely back in the house, on paper with a pencil. More likely would be the "Milkman" idea of how many eggs, quarts of milk, etc the customer wanted, although a milkman in Alaska would have a hard time reading the device in our long dark winters. But a large easy to read counter would make more sense, say something you could read from the milk truck, rather than making two trips to the porch thru the snow so this idea doesn't hold much water either.

Logic dictates that this piece is part of a device used to control something. It is obvious that there was a cover and probably other pieces missing as well as whatever it was that it used to control. The tabs on the mounting plate are there to "locate" the item into the proper orientation with the rest (missing) of the device. Where it was found says that it is part of a heating control as this was and is the single most important aspect of living here. The large, finger size tabs on the wheel indicate that It was meant to be adjusted easily with your fingers. Also the 15 being next to the 1 is if you decided you want "full" heat you could just move the wheel one notch as it were rather than rotating the wheel 360 degrees. I am not that familiar with electrical engineering but I believe a rheostat will behave that way. The stamped construction with the cheap "rivet" wheel attachment is consistent with electrical devices from that era, it was meant to be adjusted once in a while but not meant to be continuously rotated. The construction would not have held up to being abused for long. The golf club shapes stamped into the back plate were there to either allow the wheel to rotate freely or to raise it slightly off the surface of its parent appliance to prevent heat (or cold) from directly contacting it, or both. Most of the limit controls for modern heating appliances have actual temperature values on the adjustment wheel but on older devices it was common to use a number or letter as it is simple to do rather than matching an actual temperature value to the appliance. Imagine setting you heater to 110 degrees but it only gets to 68 degrees, that's why they did this. It also allows the product to have some flexibility as to what you applied it too. As most of the appliances that this device would have been attached to had zero value once they were replaced it is entirely likely that it ended up in the woods. There would have been a spot where the homesteader dumped his trash as that was the easy way back then. Also it is unlikely that many of these appliances remain as most were obsolete by the 1970's and certainly so when natural gas became available to the property.

So anyway, I suck at paint and photoshop type stuff but I will search around some and see if I can find some pics. I look forward to your comments, thanks.

 

[Bramblefind]

Well give me a little credit - I found that poultry farmer way back on page 11

I am not set on this being an egg counter. But you have to admit it looks and sounds VERY much like the item I found in the patent search (see page 12). I don't know how much that item was used but the existence of the patent does show that someone out there thought such a thing was a very good idea. They spent a lot of time and effort to design and patent it.

I also showed instances from two poultry publications on the 1950s where very similar sounding items were being promoted.

It might help if the original poster comes back and can pinpoint the name of the homestead he found this on. But if it was found along the river I guess it might not be original to that area at all.

 

[wwace]

Well give me a little credit - I found that poultry farmer way back on page 11

I am not set on this being an egg counter. But you have to admit it looks and sounds VERY much like the item I found in the patent search (see page 12). I don't know how much that item was used but the existence of the patent does show that someone out there thought such a thing was a very good idea. They spent a lot of time and effort to design and patent it.

I also showed instances from two poultry publications on the 1950s where very similar sounding items were being promoted.

It might help if the original poster comes back and can pinpoint the name of the homestead he found this on. But if it was found along the river I guess it might not be original to that area at all.

sorry I missed the page 11 post, as I said I read most of this along time ago and I just read page 13 as I made my post yesterday. Regardless trying to tie this item to what is arguably the most unlikely choice for the area is the issue I am having. If you said it was part of a salmon counter that a Dept of Fish & Game guy dropped chances are I would be 99% behind you. As heating appliances numbering tens of thousands were used/disposed of in that area I will stick by my assumptions for now. Frankly it would be nice if somebody could prove it's identity without doubt but as this was part of a valueless device(after it's lifespan)and(in my opinion)there is not much cause to flood the internet with info on it. Thanks again for reading my opinions