The amount of material a 3 inch hand sucker will move

[deserdog]

I did a test to see how much material a 3 inch would move. This is material right from the creek, after loosening it up with my digging bar. Each pan is one suction stroke. First picture is all of thematerial in a 14 inch gold pan, then the oversize in a 1/2" classifier.

 

[bcfromfl]

I've got mine and it's fine for me -- yes it's got some heft to it, but in the water the extra weight is supported. I added the heavy handle to assist when moving it with material and water inside after charging the barrel. There are a lot of hardscrabble miners tougher than me out there.

If someone can find ABS 3" pipe, they are welcome to substitute. The pipe is where 90% of the weight is located, and that's why I'm not including it in the kit.

 

[Bejay]

I have always used a 2 inch shrimp gun. It does not capture and hold material like those you must empty each time. Rather; you suck and shoot the material immediately into a low sided plastic lug. Then you simply can pan or sluice what you have accumulated in the lug. The most notable concept is the suction plug; which is a rubber ball on threaded stock compressed between a washer and a nut on each side of the rubber ball. The rubber balls are available as replacement ones if needed...but after many many years, all I have had to do is tighten the bottom nut/washer compressing the ball if the suction plug gets weak. I like the handle set up as well. I can often keep up with a two inch dredge for short spurts till my lug is full.

Shrimp Guns

Bejay

 

[bcfromfl]

The weight of PVC is 3 times the weight of abs and so is the average cost. The beast is too heavy to use all day because it's designed around too heavy of a material. Anything over 2" needs to be made from ABS or lighter material to be usable. This is just my own opinion of course... I would sell off the PVC parts individually to recoup some of your losses, then make one for yourself out of ABS and look at the differences between the 2.

I went to a plumbing supply store today, and they had five-foot sections of 3" PVC pipe side-by-side with ABS. (My workhorse design has a 54" barrel, and the sniper a 39" barrel.) I held one of each pipe in each hand, and there was MAYBE a few ounces difference between the two. No way "...3 times the weight." Nothing that would be appreciable in use. In addition, there was NO DIFFERENCE IN PRICE between PVC and ABS parts.

So unless you have a contractor's license and can buy things wholesale, I don't think your points are valid. I welcome constructive criticism on my project, but if you're going to post something negative, at least check facts first.

 

[Reed Lukens]

I went to a plumbing supply store today, and they had five-foot sections of 3" PVC pipe side-by-side with ABS. (My workhorse design has a 54" barrel, and the sniper a 39" barrel.) I held one of each pipe in each hand, and there was MAYBE a few ounces difference between the two. No way "...3 times the weight." Nothing that would be appreciable in use. In addition, there was NO DIFFERENCE IN PRICE between PVC and ABS parts.

So unless you have a contractor's license and can buy things wholesale, I don't think your points are valid. I welcome constructive criticism on my project, but if you're going to post something negative, at least check facts first.

I figured that you were using SCH40... That's the fact... Keep on selling them like hotcakes... Pvc is sold in 10' lengths, so your paying more for shorter cut pieces. Notice the weight differences below, ABS is 7lbs, PVC SCH 40 is 15lbs, PVC SCH80 is 20lbs.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GENOVA-3-x-10-ft-ABS-Pipe-2DGG2

https://www.grainger.com/product/HA...m/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/5AFJ2_AS01?$smthumb$

As far as the prices, the store in my town has SCH80 PVC way over ABS, it's a small town, what can I say... I'll be buying pipe from Grainger from now on...

The weight difference is huge and that's the key...
Here's the SCH80 PVC that holds its shape and has the best strength
https://www.grainger.com/product/GF...m/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1VFA3_AS01?$smthumb$
The SCH80 fittings are what I used, big difference in the weight and price, they don't break as easy as the sch40 or less PVC. I haven't bought SCH 40 PVC in years because it cracks to easy. ABS lasts and is so much lighter... Get the picture?

 

[deserdog]

I have never made one out of abs, made lots out of schedule 40 pvc. I get a contractor's discount. The most expensive item is the schedule 40 45 elbow. The pipe is only about 1.80 a foot.

 

[deserdog]

I have never had one of my customers break a 3". The one I use is one with a 30" barrel
It probably weighs between 6 and 7 lbs

 

[bcfromfl]

I figured that you were using SCH40... That's the fact... Keep on selling them like hotcakes... Pvc is sold in 10' lengths, so your paying more for shorter cut pieces. Notice the weight differences below, ABS is 7lbs, PVC SCH 40 is 15lbs, PVC SCH80 is 20lbs.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GENOVA-3-x-10-ft-ABS-Pipe-2DGG2
https://www.grainger.com/product/HA...m/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/5AFJ2_AS01?$smthumb$

As far as the prices, the store in my town has SCH80 PVC way over ABS, it's a small town, what can I say... I'll be buying pipe from Grainger from now on...

The weight difference is huge and that's the key...
Here's the SCH80 PVC that holds its shape and has the best strength
https://www.grainger.com/product/GF...m/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1VFA3_AS01?$smthumb$
The SCH80 fittings are what I used, big difference in the weight and price, they don't break as easy as the sch40 or less PVC. I haven't bought SCH 40 PVC in years because it cracks to easy. ABS lasts and is so much lighter
... Get the picture?

I'm not sure why you've been directing all your hostility towards me, and ridiculing what I'm doing?

I didn't say I purchased 5-foot sections. Only that it was convenient to hold each piece (with an approximation to the size of my finished barrels) to compare weight -- apples to apples. I purchased 10-foot sections of PVC for nine dollars and change, and cut them to my specifications. The weight in the links to the pipes you provided are 7lbs for a 10-foot ABS, and 15lbs for a 10-foot PVC. That means a five foot piece would be 2.3lbs ABS vs. 5lbs PVC. It didn't feel like that much of a difference in my hands, but I didn't have scales with me. Certainly not enough to make significant difference in use. My price is very low for the pipe, and I'm not even selling it with the kit, because shipping it would require two very expensive boxes -- better for someone to cut their own pieces for this inexpensive part. There would be no discount with the other parts (ABS vs PVC) unless you ordered in bulk from a supply house, and even then it would be marginal. It wouldn't make sense for me to purchase a huge inventory of parts.

Purchasing Schedule 80 pipe for $78 plus shipping would not make sense...and it's heavier to boot. I'm not sure why you would suggest this, especially when you're saying that PVC is already too heavy?

I don't have any problem with the weight of my design, and as deserdog says, there's no way with even rugged use that anything would crack. Maybe your experience was with smaller diameter pipe, and that's why it cracked? 3" PVC is a very heavy gauge of plastic.

You yourself are a fan of a larger diameter hand dredge. You recognize there is value here in the field, right? I'm just not understanding your criticisms of excessive weight or price of my design, as the materials you use would result in a similar weight -- even more if you use Schedule 80. It even sounds as if you're spending more money than me, too?

Maybe you should order my kit? ;-)

Bruce

 

[mikep691]

We (actually the other M in M&M) made a 2" G&S style tube. The valves were the most expensive, but worth it. We use short strokes on a 30" barrel (maybe 12") and it will fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 5 minutes. Our barrel is ABS, the plunger/handle is 3/4" sch40 PVC. Washers that are smaller diameter than the I.D of the tube are more readily available. A piece of 3/8" all thread nutted inside the end cap, then nutted outside, washer, rubber plug, washer, and another nut makes the seal. We made a nozzle that's removable out of 1" PVC, heated it and ovalled to about 3/4" and cut at a 45 degree angle. This helps keep bigger rocks from getting stuck in the valves. Three years of use and it has had few issues.

 

[Reed Lukens]

I'm not sure why you've been directing all your hostility towards me, and ridiculing what I'm doing?

Bruce

I'm not hostile, you simply asked for insight on why they aren't selling and the bottom line is, because they cost to much; and mostly because you're not selling a complete unit. Mine cost me around $50 for the fittings when I built it, and the pipes were pieces that I grabbed from a friend. I used all ABS for the outside, 1" sch40 for the pull rod, sch80 fittings for the pull handle, and car wash rags with a couple hose clamps over foam, make up the simple good working seal.
PVC yellows, gets brittle and then turns brown and warps when left out in the sun, that's all I was saying there because ABS doesn't. Mine leans up against a tree when I'm not using it, and it's sitting there right now, out in the open and ready to use.
As a customer, I'm not willing to pay over $150.00 for an incomplete product. The last time I looked at them online, they were selling for around $100, and I wasn't looking to buy, yes that was a few years ago

 

[Goldfleks]

I'll second the not willing to buy a incomplete product. On something like a sucker gun if I have to go to Lowes and buy PVC, cut and glue it, I might as well just buy the exbows, valves, whatever else, and just make it myself. Plenty of tutorials out there on YouTube.

So this goes back to ABS and weight. If ABS is half the weight of SC40 PVC, you're going to save half the weight on shipping costs.

 

[deserdog]

It costs about $30.00 in parts to build a 30". And it ships at 9 or 10 lbs. I make my boxes out of priority boxes.
There 2 types of 3" that I have seen, 1 is hollow core, and I do not use that type.

 

[bcfromfl]

I'll second the not willing to buy a incomplete product. On something like a sucker gun if I have to go to Lowes and buy PVC, cut and glue it, I might as well just buy the exbows, valves, whatever else, and just make it myself.

I did it this way to save shipping costs, which are astronomical even if you could shave a few ounces off. BTW, it's not necessary to glue anything on my kit, and as a matter of fact, I don't recommend it because it prevents the swapping of pieces for different configurations. Press fit of pieces is solid and makes a good seal.

There's quite a bit of fabrication involved in some of the pieces, and that's the advantage of a kit -- especially if you don't own the special tools.

 

[N-Lionberger]

I built a super sucker in 3" ABS for use from a seated position to feed a sluice like I saw in one of Reed's videos. I used brass wire and some old longjohns and it really moves the dirt, faster than my sluice can handle.