"The Lue Map and the Nazi Connection -3"

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
At the end of the day whether you're taken serious or not is irrelevant...there's only one way to verify your conclusions and that involves some digging and a pot of gold. Without that, any theory is as good as the next one. For my part, I'd be pretty happy with a bunch of gold and people that didn't believe me...in fact, I'd call that an ideal situation.
That is best situation to be in.

Silently take the money and run.

Crow
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
Gidday Randy

First of all I should state I do not know Richard personally. I believe he was present here on the very early days of treaurenet. I am not sure I think he passed away. I do not know what information or sources he had.

I recall he might of wrote for treasure hunting magazines? but on another treasure related topic he wrote completely inaccurate information. However giving him leeway as it was the time before internet days access to information was hard. But regardless his work on that topic was full of holes.

Terry carter posted on you tube correspondence about the LUE. Walburn
I swapped a lot of letters and emails with Walburn over the years and would have loved to seen his LUE research in its entirety. He was passionate about three things: The LUE treasure, Francis Drake's silver hoard and Montezuma's Treasure. And you are correct, he was very present in the early days of Treasurenet, stretching back to at least 1995 or essentially the forum's infancy. For the record, I do believe Terry Carter's video indicates Richard has passed away. I didn't always agree with his conclusions, but then (as always) I always tried to allow my mind to not be so closed off as to miss nuggets of truth and reality that might present themselves in his material.

Walburn's big source of information was NERS, or the Natural Earth Rejection System. He believed that buried items created a field as a result of foreign presence where it was buried, similar to the way a human body will eventually force out a piece of glass or a splinter that doesn't belong under the skin. He explained the concept, which seemed to have validity (as stated above), with the assumption that these fields could be viewed remotely and thus could be used to reveal caches, particularly large ones.

Where it gets confusing is execution...he never revealed HOW the NERS was used in a practical sense, that being the mechanics of an actual discovery. My suspicion is that it utilized some sort of Long Range Detection system, or it could have simply been the basis for some unique form of map dowsing he carried out. ither way, he was convinced he had discovered the location of all three of the above named treasures but for a variety of reasons, largely legal ones if my memory serves me, he never made a recovery.
I don't recall him ever stating where he felt the LUE could be found. He was vocal about the locations of both Montezuma's hoard and Drake's silver. Montezuma's he felt was in Zion's National Park and felt the Cedar City "shotput man" carving was one of the clues to that cache.

Richard was the first person I knew who mentioned "Treasure of the Valley of Secrets" as a source of information on the LUE. By the time he mentioned it, the book was 20 years old and rather obscure. He ultimately was able to purchase a copy from someone on these forums as a result. TofVoS is an enigma, as it's not about the LUE but mentions it in passing repeatedly.
 

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
Thank you for your frankness, everything was expressed quite politely on your part. But let me ask, where in my stories did you catch the statement about a specific volume of gold? Yes, at the beginning I was retelling only the information that was published earlier in the accompanying note to Lu’s map. It seems they were talking about fourteen tons of gold. But I myself critically perceived this information and expressed a different opinion (note, I did not claim, but expressed the opinion that, at a minimum, for such an operation at least 100 tons of gold were needed to begin with) But, of course, in order to flood the market with gold, they were used not only submarines, there were also completely legal companies, such as the company Steelcase, which produced office furniture and fireproof safes and with connections around the world, plus they were also involved in the construction of hydroelectric power plants. Frank Ilod Wright had extensive connections and could unofficially transport gold by other means of transport, surface, air, etc. Gold was also transported through Canada. But in fact, it is unknown how much Canaris managed to transport; he hastened to complete his operation and for this he did (as it is now fashionable to say, an insider stuffing through his friend). But my personal opinion, judging by the map, is that there are only 28 tons in the storage facility.

Here is the absurdity of it all.

Germany never had at the time enough gold you claim this operation 'Red Wing' Which the gold to smuggled into united states. your words below.

(to destabilize the US economy and prevent participation in World War II), began on 04/09/1939. Gold was transported on submarines.

Here is league of nations table in regards of gold reserves. You will notice before ww2 Germany's gold reserves was only 17 tons. That was confirmed by two separate sources. Once league of Nations gold reserve register and correspondences from bank of England to Deutsche Reichsbank.

The German economy was a command economy.

You can see for yourself below.

gold resaerves 1938.JPG

Even if we take in account. Germany took 3 tons of from looted Dazig 3 tons gold reserve. Austria 27 tons gold reserve. 6 tons from Czechoslovakia.
1938 figures.

Austria. Of the 78.2 tons of gold confiscated by the Deutsche Reichsbank in 1938 that was not just the gold reserves but from banks etc.

Czechoslovakia 56 gold reserves tons in 1938. In 1938, on the eve of World War II, the state's reserve of gold was around 95 tons and the bank started moving some of it abroad amid fears of a German invasion. This meant that only around six tons of gold remained within Czechoslovakia when the invasion finally did take place a year later.

Poland When war broke out in September 1939, Polish authorities arranged for the country's entire reserve of gold to be evacuated. About 80 tonnes of gold bullion, as well as other assets and banknotes, were sent on a journey that took them through Romania, Turkey, Africa, France and New York.

So you can see with Germany already having low gold reserves already and and a lot of the neighboring gold reserves already gone. Germany was desperate for gold as it paid for their war efforts buy strategic materials to make bombs steel oil etc to run their war machine.

As for systematic looting of public of gold that took four years of occupation to achieve. So the belief Germany having in 1939 100 or 20 tons of gold to spare to flood the united states economy is ludicrous.

Let do a little bit of old crow wonky old math's.

The United States gold reserves in 1938 as you can see from the table. 8571 tons. if for example the Nazis smuggled in 100 tons of gold in United states to destabilize the economy that 100 ton is less that 1% of the gold reserves.

It would do absolutely nothing to economy. In fact it would enhance it because the United States government had the gold act in place since 1934 where citizen was not allowed to own gold. So whole idea of flooding the the market with gold is a total illusion.

And yet still we get to submarines. There was in 1939 very few long range submarines available to bring gold to United States. There was no secret gold mission. there was no need to cover up such an operation. It just never happened.

You can see the histories and time line for each submarines. In 1939 every long range sub available was used for the battle of Atlantic to starve England into surrender and submission. Not for shipping gold that they could ill afford to a country that if japan had never attacked Pearl harbour probably would of never entered ww2.

America never had the appetite to enter ww2. they was pushed into it by Japan. It was America's industrial capacity that won WW2.

Germany had zero need to cover that operation up in their own records of their submarines movement. if it was true they would been boasting about it later after war. but you can see for yourself on uboat net and wikipeda on sub classes etc . Many of long range submarines was launched in 1940s not 1939.

My stepfather was a German submariner sunk off Gibraltar and made prisoner of war. He was deaf as post from depth charges. All crew had run to the front of boat to trim the vessel. so to claim subs carrying a lot of tons gold is impractical. Larger transport subs came much later. they was not in existence in 1939. What ones was ones that was lacked the range.


So the entire premise of this story is totally ludicrous.

Crow
 

Last edited:

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
One great need for Nazi war machine to continue. other than oil, was Wolfram which was heavily used in the production of ammunition and weaponry during World War II. The high density and hardness of tungsten made it an ideal material for bullets and projectiles.

Tungsten and tungsten alloys were commonly used in armor piercing rounds due to their ability to penetrate steel armor plating. In fact, the large-scale purchases of the mineral caused its price to skyrocket because the Germans depended exclusively on Galician tungsten to be able to continue manufacturing fighting vehicles and anti-tank warheads.

By 1945, Spain had acquired about 123 tons of gold from Germany, worth nearly $140m at post-war value. The US estimated 72% of the gold acquired by Spain – worth about $100m – had been looted by Germany from the nations it occupied.

So in after the fall of France 5 June 1940.
the French gold reserves A substantial portion was taken by various routs to the US and Canada between September 1939 and June 1940.

750 tons of French gold and more Polish and Belgian gold, a total of 1,100 tons, was taken to Dakar (Senegal), which is why in September of 1940 General de Gaulle’s Free French fighters tried to invade and take the seaport of Dakar, though they failed.

Subsequently it was moved to what is now Mali. The Vichy French government eventually returned the Belgian gold to the Germans, so the Riechsbank did get its hands on some of it (with French collusion, however reluctant). But that was much later that this alleged operation red tail date. And even when the Nazis had more gold from looting their long range subs was tied up in the battle if the Atlantic.

Tungsten was paid for by the Nazis at first in gold from the their own treasury as systematic looting had not started yet.

After the war, Spain returned some of the gold it was paid by Germany under the orders of a commission set up by the Allies. But not all of it. even today in Spain Thirty-eight gold ingots marked with the eagle of Nazi Germany are still held in the gold chamber of the Bank of Spain,

nazi-gold-1_43780181-24ub2yexs-717x564.jpg


The Bank of Spain declined to comment on the controversial gold but Pablo Martín Aceña, an expert in economic history at the University of Alcala and author of The Movements Of Spanish Gold During The Second World War, said ingots that remained in the Bank of Spain were not looted from any European country but came from the German treasury. If those bars was from treasury in 1939. then that was part of 17 tons reserve.

Pablo Martín Aceña claimed “There is no suggestion that these ingots were looted. Spain needed the gold because during the civil war the Republicans removed much of the gold to Russia to stop it being seized by Franco. It never returned. .

That is another treasure story in itself.

But point is Nazi Germany just did not have the gold To spare 14, 28, 100 or what ever? Even if they did. there was never going to be enough to devalue gold in the American economy. The Nazis was smart enough to know this 5 years before the war when gold act was passed.

In fact if the Nazis Had been successful smuggling gold? It would of been a much bigger cost to their own treasury in buying wolfram in the early stages of the war than any benefit trying destroy the American economy.

So the whole concept of Nazis burying gold in the USA is a modern myth now perpetuated by youtube and by forums regurgitating the same story over and over and adding to the legend. But hey It will make a great story all the same for another national treasure movie.

As for THE meaning of Lue map. Hell it could be a complex map to MC Donald's for all I know?
I am sorry to say this as you can see your heart is set on some thing that doomed to fail.

Better you find this out now and save your money ,time and effort. And potential partners money because there is only going to be one outcome. You know and I know it?

As with all the other Lue hopefuls. I do not know what the lue is? I am not sure as if it was even a A real map or just hoax to begin with? It is open to thousands of interpretations.

And that is it!amigo! The great riddle of the Lue? When all of us are long gone. Others will follow claiming this or that in a endless cycle. The results will be the same.

Dame fortune is hard mistress to please just like a pole dancer? Ya try to put your grubby hands on it some bouncer beats to crap out of ya in the back alley!

Er..... not that I would know anything like that.:tongue3:



Crow
 

Last edited:

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
Segei another factor to consider. To buy weapons and other war materiel that it sorely needed from neutral United States, Britain whose empire was already crumbling after WW1 had to pay in gold or U.S. dollars; no credit was permitted under the strict Neutrality Act in effect in the United States at that time.

So America was already being flooded with gold in fact about 1500 metic tons from the UK not counting other countries . It did not crash the US economy it turned them into a superpower and dragged them out of recession.

Much like Roosevelt’s New Deal in the U.S., Hitler’s government tackled unemployment by dipping into deficit spending. It financed great public works projects such as the autobahn, railroad, housing and more.

The plan worked. Within four years, just as promised, unemployment was virtually thwarted. It’s been said that, had Hitler stopped in 1936 or 1937, he might today be remembered as one of the 20th century’s most admired leaders.

Yet However, Hitler assumed a much more aggressive stance toward national rearmament in an effort to reclaim lost dignity—the Treaty of Versailles be damned.

What stood in his way was not only his country’s lack of natural resources but also the fact that many supplier nations would not accept Germany’s worthless currency. They insisted instead to be paid in their own currency; some other international, convertible currency such as Swiss francs or U.S. dollars; or hard currency.

How then would Germany pay for Sweden’s iron ore? Romania’s oil? Turkey’s chromium? Portugal’s tungsten and Spain’s manganese?

Enter gold. Germany needed gold to pay for their ambition. Most of gold reserve treasuries in europe fled to save them from the Nazis. Hitler despised gold but it was the exchange mechanism to buy raw materials. So once again you have see sending gold any gold to America is a fallacy.

Crow
 

OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
One great need for Nazi war machine to continue. other than oil, was Wolfram which was heavily used in the production of ammunition and weaponry during World War II. The high density and hardness of tungsten made it an ideal material for bullets and projectiles.

Tungsten and tungsten alloys were commonly used in armor piercing rounds due to their ability to penetrate steel armor plating. In fact, the large-scale purchases of the mineral caused its price to skyrocket because the Germans depended exclusively on Galician tungsten to be able to continue manufacturing fighting vehicles and anti-tank warheads.

By 1945, Spain had acquired about 123 tons of gold from Germany, worth nearly $140m at post-war value. The US estimated 72% of the gold acquired by Spain – worth about $100m – had been looted by Germany from the nations it occupied.

So in after the fall of France 5 June 1940.
the French gold reserves A substantial portion was taken by various routs to the US and Canada between September 1939 and June 1940.

750 tons of French gold and more Polish and Belgian gold, a total of 1,100 tons, was taken to Dakar (Senegal), which is why in September of 1940 General de Gaulle’s Free French fighters tried to invade and take the seaport of Dakar, though they failed.

Subsequently it was moved to what is now Mali. The Vichy French government eventually returned the Belgian gold to the Germans, so the Riechsbank did get its hands on some of it (with French collusion, however reluctant). But that was much later that this alleged operation red tail date. And even when the Nazis had more gold from looting their long range subs was tied up in the battle if the Atlantic.

Tungsten was paid for by the Nazis at first in gold from the their own treasury as systematic looting had not started yet.

After the war, Spain returned some of the gold it was paid by Germany under the orders of a commission set up by the Allies. But not all of it. even today in Spain Thirty-eight gold ingots marked with the eagle of Nazi Germany are still held in the gold chamber of the Bank of Spain,

View attachment 2135807

The Bank of Spain declined to comment on the controversial gold but Pablo Martín Aceña, an expert in economic history at the University of Alcala and author of The Movements Of Spanish Gold During The Second World War, said ingots that remained in the Bank of Spain were not looted from any European country but came from the German treasury. If those bars was from treasury in 1939. then that was part of 17 tons reserve.

Pablo Martín Aceña claimed “There is no suggestion that these ingots were looted. Spain needed the gold because during the civil war the Republicans removed much of the gold to Russia to stop it being seized by Franco. It never returned. .

That is another treasure story in itself.

But point is Nazi Germany just did not have the gold To spare 14, 28, 100 or what ever? Even if they did. there was never going to be enough to devalue gold in the American economy. The Nazis was smart enough to know this 5 years before the war when gold act was passed.

In fact if the Nazis Had been successful smuggling gold? It would of been a much bigger cost to their own treasury in buying wolfram in the early stages of the war than any benefit trying destroy the American economy.

So the whole concept of Nazis burying gold in the USA is a modern myth now perpetuated by youtube and by forums regurgitating the same story over and over and adding to the legend. But hey It will make a great story all the same for another national treasure movie.

As for THE meaning of Lue map. Hell it could be a complex map to MC Donald's for all I know?
I am sorry to say this as you can see your heart is set on some thing that doomed to fail.

Better you find this out now and save your money ,time and effort. And potential partners money because there is only going to be one outcome. You know and I know it?

As with all the other Lue hopefuls. I do not know what the lue is? I am not sure as if it was even a A real map or just hoax to begin with? It is open to thousands of interpretations.

And that is it!amigo! The great riddle of the Lue? When all of us are long gone. Others will follow claiming this or that in a endless cycle. The results will be the same.

Dame fortune is hard mistress to please just like a pole dancer? Ya try to put your grubby hands on it some bouncer beats to crap out of ya in the back alley!

Er..... not that I would know anything like that.:tongue3:



Crow
Bravo, what a detailed analysis! But this does not change the essence of what I said about deciphering the map. Where do you think I got the information that the author of the “Lu map” is Admiral Canaris? Everything is taken from this, as it has been called more than once, “a cartoon map for fun.” Not by imperial selection at random. And to be honest, I am deeply indifferent to how and in what way, the gold was delivered and stored in the place indicated on the map (but the gold was definitely delivered by submarines), despite your in-depth analysis and supposed fatigue from the battle for the Atlantic. And regarding the fact that you claim that “extra gold” would only strengthen the economy, I also answered this question in the first thread. And it’s easy to prove the correctness of the decryption, no problem, if I’m in the USA now. And yes, it is not possible to quietly steal a “pot of gold”, since the place itself does not imply secrecy, this one will require the involvement of a fairly large circle of specialists in different fields, this is two and one way or another, but the official authorities will have to be informed Still, put it, it's three.
 

OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Here is the absurdity of it all.

Germany never had at the time enough gold you claim this operation 'Red Wing' Which the gold to smuggled into united states. your words below.

(to destabilize the US economy and prevent participation in World War II), began on 04/09/1939. Gold was transported on submarines.

Here is league of nations table in regards of gold reserves. You will notice before ww2 Germany's gold reserves was only 17 tons. That was confirmed by two separate sources. Once league of Nations gold reserve register and correspondences from bank of England to Deutsche Reichsbank.

The German economy was a command economy.

You can see for yourself below.

View attachment 2135736
Even if we take in account. Germany took 3 tons of from looted Dazig 3 tons gold reserve. Austria 27 tons gold reserve. 6 tons from Czechoslovakia.
1938 figures.

Austria. Of the 78.2 tons of gold confiscated by the Deutsche Reichsbank in 1938 that was not just the gold reserves but from banks etc.

Czechoslovakia 56 gold reserves tons in 1938. In 1938, on the eve of World War II, the state's reserve of gold was around 95 tons and the bank started moving some of it abroad amid fears of a German invasion. This meant that only around six tons of gold remained within Czechoslovakia when the invasion finally did take place a year later.

Poland When war broke out in September 1939, Polish authorities arranged for the country's entire reserve of gold to be evacuated. About 80 tonnes of gold bullion, as well as other assets and banknotes, were sent on a journey that took them through Romania, Turkey, Africa, France and New York.

So you can see with Germany already having low gold reserves already and and a lot of the neighboring gold reserves already gone. Germany was desperate for gold as it paid for their war efforts buy strategic materials to make bombs steel oil etc to run their war machine.

As for systematic looting of public of gold that took four years of occupation to achieve. So the belief Germany having in 1939 100 or 20 tons of gold to spare to flood the united states economy is ludicrous.

Let do a little bit of old crow wonky old math's.

The United States gold reserves in 1938 as you can see from the table. 8571 tons. if for example the Nazis smuggled in 100 tons of gold in United states to destabilize the economy that 100 ton is less that 1% of the gold reserves.

It would do absolutely nothing to economy. In fact it would enhance it because the United States government had the gold act in place since 1934 where citizen was not allowed to own gold. So whole idea of flooding the the market with gold is a total illusion.

And yet still we get to submarines. There was in 1939 very few long range submarines available to bring gold to United States. There was no secret gold mission. there was no need to cover up such an operation. It just never happened.

You can see the histories and time line for each submarines. In 1939 every long range sub available was used for the battle of Atlantic to starve England into surrender and submission. Not for shipping gold that they could ill afford to a country that if japan had never attacked Pearl harbour probably would of never entered ww2.

America never had the appetite to enter ww2. they was pushed into it by Japan. It was America's industrial capacity that won WW2.

Germany had zero need to cover that operation up in their own records of their submarines movement. if it was true they would been boasting about it later after war. but you can see for yourself on uboat net and wikipeda on sub classes etc . Many of long range submarines was launched in 1940s not 1939.

My stepfather was a German submariner sunk off Gibraltar and made prisoner of war. He was deaf as post from depth charges. All crew had run to the front of boat to trim the vessel. so to claim subs carrying a lot of tons gold is impractical. Larger transport subs came much later. they was not in existence in 1939. What ones was ones that was lacked the range.


So the entire premise of this story is totally ludicrous.

Crow
Yes, and about the fact that America did not want to enter World War II, everything is true, but only because Hitler was forced to choose the second plan at the beginning of the war. Read the document carefully - “Speech by German Reich Chancellor A. Hitler at a meeting with the leaders of the Wehrmacht at the Obersalzber residence on August 22, 1939.”
And the plan to destabilize the US economy was developed on the basis of the first option for starting a war. And precisely because the spring plan failed thanks to Canaris, Hitler was forced to abandon the desired first option, and for this reason he was not afraid that the United States would enter the war; he was let down by his ally, Japan. I have already written all this before. Read Hitler's Speech.
 

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
. Okay fair enough The “Speech by German Reich Chancellor A. Hitler at a meeting with the leaders of the Wehrmacht at the Obersalzber residence on August 22, 1939.”

I can confirm Canaris was present there on the day August 22, 1939.. Here is two pictures of the meeting that day.Canaris is in the center of the picture.

1939 08 22 - 10 - R3btrYeN.jpg

Canaris is facing Hitler below.

1939 08 22 - 20 - Cvsy2EKd.jpg


Speech in civil in front of 50 senior commanders about the diplomatic situation while Ribbentrop was meeting Stalin in Moscow.

Do you have reference to where that documented speech says this? The only speech I found for that date said says nothing you claim?

However I am open minded there may of been more than one speech that day? Do you have a link to that speech So I can check Provence.

Speech by the FĂĽhrer to the Commanders in Chief on August 22, 1939

Page 1

I have called you together to give you a picture of the political situation, in order that you may have some insight into the individual factors on which I have based my decision to act and in order to strengthen your confidence.
After this we shall discuss military details.
It was clear to me that a conflict with Poland had to come sooner or later. I had already made this decision in the spring, but I thought that I would first turn against the West in a few years, and only after that against the East. But the sequence of these things cannot be fixed. Nor should one close one's eyes to threatening situations. I wanted first of all to establish a tolerable relationship with Poland in order to fight first against the West. But this plan, which appealed to me, could not be executed, as fundamental points had changed. It became clear to me that, in the event of a conflict with the West, Poland would attack us. Poland is striving for access to the sea. The further development appeared after the occupation of the Memel Territory and it became clear to me that in certain circumstances a conflict with Poland might come at an inopportune moment. I give as reasons for this conclusion:
1. First of all two personal factors:
My own personality and that of Mussolini.
Essentially all depends on me, on my existence, because of my political talents. Furthermore, the fact that probably no one will ever again have the trust of the whole German people as I have. There will probably never again in the future be a man with more authority than I have. My existence is therefore a factor of great value. But I can be eliminated at any time by a criminal or a lunatic.
The second personal factor is the Duce. His existence is also decisive. If anything happens to him, Italy's loyalty to the alliance will no longer be certain. The Italian Court is fundamentally opposed to the Duce. Above all, the Court regards the expansion of the empire as an encumbrance. The Duce is the man with the strongest nerves in Italy.
The third personal factor in our favour is Franco. We can ask only for benevolent neutrality from Spain. But this depends on Franco's personality. He guarantees a certain uniformity and stability in the present system in Spain. We must accept the fact that Spain does not as yet have a Fascist party with our internal unity.
The other side presents a negative picture as far as authoritative persons are concerned. There is no outstanding personality in England and France.
It is easy for us to make decisions. We have nothing to lose; we have everything to gain. Because of our restrictions [Einschränkungen] our economic situation is such that we can only hold out for a few more years. Göring can confirm this. We have no other choice, we must act. Our opponents will be risking a great deal and can gain only a little. Britain's stake in a war is inconceivably great. Our enemies have leaders who are below the average. No personalities. No masters, no men of action.
Besides the personal factors, the political situation is favorable for us: In the Mediterranean, rivalry between Italy, France and England; in the Far East, tension between Japan and England; in the Middle East, tension which causes alarm in the Mohammedan world.


Page 2

The English Empire did not emerge stronger from the last war. Nothing was achieved from the maritime point of view. Strife between England and Ireland. The Union of South Africa has become more independent. Concessions have had to be made to India. England is in the utmost peril. Unhealthy industrialization. A British statesman can only view the future with concern.

France's position has also deteriorated, above all in the Mediterranean.

Further factors in our favor are these:

Since Albania, there has been a balance of power in the Balkans. Yugoslavia is infected with the fatal germ of decay because of her internal situation.

Romania has not grown stronger. She is open to attack and vulnerable. She is threatened by Hungary and Bulgaria. Since Kemal's death, Turkey has been ruled by petty minds, unsteady, weak men.

All these favorable circumstances will no longer prevail in two or three year's time. No one knows how much longer I shall live. Therefore, better a conflict now.

The creation of Greater Germany was a great achievement politically, but militarily it was doubtful, since it was achieved by bluff on the part of the political leaders. It is necessary to test the military [machine]. If at all possible, not in a general reckoning, but by the accomplishment of individual tasks.

The relationship with Poland has become unbearable. My Polish policy hitherto was contrary to the views of the people. My proposals to Poland (Danzig and the Corridor) were frustrated by England's intervention. Poland changed her tone towards us. A permanent state of tension is intolerable. The power of initiative cannot be allowed to pass to others. The present moment is more favorable than in two or three years' time. An attempt on my life or Mussolini's could change the situation to our disadvantage. One cannot for ever face one another with rifles cocked. One compromise solution suggested to us was that we should change our convictions and make gestures. They talked to us again in the language of Versailles. There was a danger of losing prestige. Now there still is a great probability that the West will not intervene. We must take the risk with ruthless determination. The politician must take a risk just as much as the general. We are faced with the harsh alternatives of striking or of certain annihilation sooner or later.

Reference to previous hazardous undertakings.

I should have been stoned if I had not been proved right. The most dangerous step was the entry into the neutral zone. Only a week before, I got a warning through France. I have always taken a great risk in the conviction that it would succeed.

Page 3

Now it is also a great risk. Iron nerves, iron resolution.

The following special reasons confirm my view. England and France have undertaken obligations which neither is in a position to fulfill. There is no real rearmament in England, but only propaganda. A great deal of harm was done by many Germans, who were not in agreement with me, saying and writing to English people after the solution of the Czech question: The FĂĽhrer succeeded because you lost your nerve, because you capitulated too soon. This explains the present propaganda war. The English speak of a war of nerves. One factor in this war of nerves is to boost the increase of armaments. But what are the real facts about British rearmament? The naval construction program for 1938 has not yet been completed. Only the reserve fleet has been mobilized. Purchase of trawlers. No substantial strengthening of the Navy before 1941 or 1942.

Little has been done on land. England will be able to send at most three divisions to the Continent. A little has been done for the Air Force, but it is only a beginning. Anti-aircraft defense is in its initial stages. At the moment England has only 150 anti-aircraft guns. The new anti-aircraft gun has been produced. There is a shortage of predictors. England is still vulnerable from the air. This can change in two or three years. At the moment the English Air Force has only 130,000 men, France 72,000, Poland 15,000. England does not want the conflict to break out for two or three years.

The following is typical of England. Poland wanted a loan from England for her rearmament. England, however, only granted credits in order to make sure that Poland buys in England, although England cannot make deliveries. This suggests that England does not really want to support Poland. She is not risking eight million pounds in Poland, although she poured five hundred million into China. England's position in the world is very precarious. She will not take any risks.

France is short of men (decline in the birth rate). Little has been done for rearmament. The artillery is obsolete. France did not want to embark on this adventure. The West has only two possibilities for fighting against us:

1. Blockade: It will not be effective because of our autarky and because we have sources of supply in Eastern Europe.

2. Attack in the West from the Maginot line: I consider this impossible.

Another possibility would be the violation of Dutch, Belgian and Swiss neutrality. I have no doubt that all these States, as well as Scandinavia, will defend their neutrality with all available means. England and France will not violate the neutrality of these countries. Thus in actual fact England cannot help Poland. There still remains an attack on Italy. Military intervention is out of the question. No one is counting on a long war. If Herr von Brauchitsch had told me that I would have replied: 'Then it cannot be done.' It is nonsense to say that England wants to wage a long war.

Page 4

We will hold our position in the West until we have conquered Poland. We must bear in mind our great production capacity. It is much greater than in 1914–1918.

The enemy had another hope, that Russia would become our enemy after the conquest of Poland. The enemy did not reckon with my great strength of purpose. Our enemies are small fry. I saw them in Munich.

I was convinced that Stalin would never accept the English offer. Russia has no interest in preserving Poland, and Stalin knows that it would mean the end of his régime, no matter whether his soldiers emerged from a war victorious or vanquished. Litvinov's replacement was decisive. I brought about the change towards Russia gradually. In connection with the commercial treaty we got into political conversations. Proposal for a non-aggression pact. Then came a comprehensive proposal from Russia. Four days ago I took a special step, which led to Russia replying yesterday that she is prepared to sign. Personal contact with Stalin is established. The day after tomorrow von Ribbentrop will conclude the treaty. Now Poland is in the position in which I wanted her.

We need not be afraid of a blockade. The East will supply us with grain, cattle, coal, lead and zinc. It is a mighty aim, which demands great efforts. I am only afraid that at the last moment some swine or other will yet submit to me a plan for mediation.

The political objective goes further. A start has been made on the destruction of England's hegemony. The way will be open for the soldiers after I have made the political preparations.

Today's announcement of the non-aggression pact with Russia came as a bombshell. The consequences cannot be foreseen. Stalin also said that this course will benefit both countries. The effect on Poland will be tremendous.

In reply, Göring thanked the Führer and assured him that the Wehrmacht would do their duty.


reference sources below.

Source of English translation: Speech by the Führer to the Commanders in Chief on August 22, 1939, in United States Department of State, Documents on German Foreign Policy: From the Archives of the German Foreign Ministry. Washington, DC: United States Government Printing Office, 1957-1964. Series D (1937-1945), The Last Days of Peace, Volume 7: August 9 – September 3, 1939. Document 192, pp. 200-04.

Source of original German text: Ansprache Hitlers an die Oberbefehlshaber am 22. August 1939 über seine Absicht, Krieg zu führen und seine politischen Vorbereitungen dazu, sowie Voraussagungen über die Haltung anderer europäischer Staaten und den wahrscheinlichen Kriegsverlauf (Beweisstück US-29), in Der Prozess gegen die Hauptkriegsverbrecher vor dem Internationalen Militärgerichtshof. Nürnberg 14. November 1945 - 1. Oktober 1946. Volume XXVI, Amtlicher Text – Deutsche Ausgabe, Urkunden und anderes Beweismaterial. Nuremberg 1947. Reprint: Munich, Delphin Verlag, 1989. Document 798-PS, pp. 338-44.

I must admit I found that intriguing that there is no mention of the united states in documented speech?

Crow
 

Last edited:
OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
. Okay fair enough The “Speech by German Reich Chancellor A. Hitler at a meeting with the leaders of the Wehrmacht at the Obersalzber residence on August 22, 1939.”

I can confirm Canaris was present there on the day August 22, 1939.. Here is two pictures of the meeting that day.Canaris is in the center of the picture.

View attachment 2135814
Canaris is facing Hitler below.

View attachment 2135815

Speech in civil in front of 50 senior commanders about the diplomatic situation while Ribbentrop was meeting Stalin in Moscow.

Do you have reference to where that documented speech says this? The only speech I found for that date said says nothing you claim?

However I am open minded there may of been more than one speech that day? Do you have a link to that speech So I can check Provence.

Speech by the FĂĽhrer to the Commanders in Chief on August 22, 1939

Page 1

I have called you together to give you a picture of the political situation, in order that you may have some insight into the individual factors on which I have based my decision to act and in order to strengthen your confidence.
After this we shall discuss military details.
It was clear to me that a conflict with Poland had to come sooner or later. I had already made this decision in the spring, but I thought that I would first turn against the West in a few years, and only after that against the East. But the sequence of these things cannot be fixed. Nor should one close one's eyes to threatening situations. I wanted first of all to establish a tolerable relationship with Poland in order to fight first against the West. But this plan, which appealed to me, could not be executed, as fundamental points had changed. It became clear to me that, in the event of a conflict with the West, Poland would attack us. Poland is striving for access to the sea. The further development appeared after the occupation of the Memel Territory and it became clear to me that in certain circumstances a conflict with Poland might come at an inopportune moment. I give as reasons for this conclusion:
1. First of all two personal factors:
My own personality and that of Mussolini.
Essentially all depends on me, on my existence, because of my political talents. Furthermore, the fact that probably no one will ever again have the trust of the whole German people as I have. There will probably never again in the future be a man with more authority than I have. My existence is therefore a factor of great value. But I can be eliminated at any time by a criminal or a lunatic.
The second personal factor is the Duce. His existence is also decisive. If anything happens to him, Italy's loyalty to the alliance will no longer be certain. The Italian Court is fundamentally opposed to the Duce. Above all, the Court regards the expansion of the empire as an encumbrance. The Duce is the man with the strongest nerves in Italy.
The third personal factor in our favour is Franco. We can ask only for benevolent neutrality from Spain. But this depends on Franco's personality. He guarantees a certain uniformity and stability in the present system in Spain. We must accept the fact that Spain does not as yet have a Fascist party with our internal unity.
The other side presents a negative picture as far as authoritative persons are concerned. There is no outstanding personality in England and France.
It is easy for us to make decisions. We have nothing to lose; we have everything to gain. Because of our restrictions [Einschränkungen] our economic situation is such that we can only hold out for a few more years. Göring can confirm this. We have no other choice, we must act. Our opponents will be risking a great deal and can gain only a little. Britain's stake in a war is inconceivably great. Our enemies have leaders who are below the average. No personalities. No masters, no men of action.
Besides the personal factors, the political situation is favorable for us: In the Mediterranean, rivalry between Italy, France and England; in the Far East, tension between Japan and England; in the Middle East, tension which causes alarm in the Mohammedan world.


Page 2

The English Empire did not emerge stronger from the last war. Nothing was achieved from the maritime point of view. Strife between England and Ireland. The Union of South Africa has become more independent. Concessions have had to be made to India. England is in the utmost peril. Unhealthy industrialization. A British statesman can only view the future with concern.

France's position has also deteriorated, above all in the Mediterranean.

Further factors in our favor are these:

Since Albania, there has been a balance of power in the Balkans. Yugoslavia is infected with the fatal germ of decay because of her internal situation.

Romania has not grown stronger. She is open to attack and vulnerable. She is threatened by Hungary and Bulgaria. Since Kemal's death, Turkey has been ruled by petty minds, unsteady, weak men.

All these favorable circumstances will no longer prevail in two or three year's time. No one knows how much longer I shall live. Therefore, better a conflict now.

The creation of Greater Germany was a great achievement politically, but militarily it was doubtful, since it was achieved by bluff on the part of the political leaders. It is necessary to test the military [machine]. If at all possible, not in a general reckoning, but by the accomplishment of individual tasks.

The relationship with Poland has become unbearable. My Polish policy hitherto was contrary to the views of the people. My proposals to Poland (Danzig and the Corridor) were frustrated by England's intervention. Poland changed her tone towards us. A permanent state of tension is intolerable. The power of initiative cannot be allowed to pass to others. The present moment is more favorable than in two or three years' time. An attempt on my life or Mussolini's could change the situation to our disadvantage. One cannot for ever face one another with rifles cocked. One compromise solution suggested to us was that we should change our convictions and make gestures. They talked to us again in the language of Versailles. There was a danger of losing prestige. Now there still is a great probability that the West will not intervene. We must take the risk with ruthless determination. The politician must take a risk just as much as the general. We are faced with the harsh alternatives of striking or of certain annihilation sooner or later.

Reference to previous hazardous undertakings.

I should have been stoned if I had not been proved right. The most dangerous step was the entry into the neutral zone. Only a week before, I got a warning through France. I have always taken a great risk in the conviction that it would succeed.

Page 3

Now it is also a great risk. Iron nerves, iron resolution.

The following special reasons confirm my view. England and France have undertaken obligations which neither is in a position to fulfill. There is no real rearmament in England, but only propaganda. A great deal of harm was done by many Germans, who were not in agreement with me, saying and writing to English people after the solution of the Czech question: The FĂĽhrer succeeded because you lost your nerve, because you capitulated too soon. This explains the present propaganda war. The English speak of a war of nerves. One factor in this war of nerves is to boost the increase of armaments. But what are the real facts about British rearmament? The naval construction program for 1938 has not yet been completed. Only the reserve fleet has been mobilized. Purchase of trawlers. No substantial strengthening of the Navy before 1941 or 1942.

Little has been done on land. England will be able to send at most three divisions to the Continent. A little has been done for the Air Force, but it is only a beginning. Anti-aircraft defense is in its initial stages. At the moment England has only 150 anti-aircraft guns. The new anti-aircraft gun has been produced. There is a shortage of predictors. England is still vulnerable from the air. This can change in two or three years. At the moment the English Air Force has only 130,000 men, France 72,000, Poland 15,000. England does not want the conflict to break out for two or three years.

The following is typical of England. Poland wanted a loan from England for her rearmament. England, however, only granted credits in order to make sure that Poland buys in England, although England cannot make deliveries. This suggests that England does not really want to support Poland. She is not risking eight million pounds in Poland, although she poured five hundred million into China. England's position in the world is very precarious. She will not take any risks.

France is short of men (decline in the birth rate). Little has been done for rearmament. The artillery is obsolete. France did not want to embark on this adventure. The West has only two possibilities for fighting against us:

1. Blockade: It will not be effective because of our autarky and because we have sources of supply in Eastern Europe.

2. Attack in the West from the Maginot line: I consider this impossible.

Another possibility would be the violation of Dutch, Belgian and Swiss neutrality. I have no doubt that all these States, as well as Scandinavia, will defend their neutrality with all available means. England and France will not violate the neutrality of these countries. Thus in actual fact England cannot help Poland. There still remains an attack on Italy. Military intervention is out of the question. No one is counting on a long war. If Herr von Brauchitsch had told me that I would have replied: 'Then it cannot be done.' It is nonsense to say that England wants to wage a long war.

Page 4

We will hold our position in the West until we have conquered Poland. We must bear in mind our great production capacity. It is much greater than in 1914–1918.

The enemy had another hope, that Russia would become our enemy after the conquest of Poland. The enemy did not reckon with my great strength of purpose. Our enemies are small fry. I saw them in Munich.

I was convinced that Stalin would never accept the English offer. Russia has no interest in preserving Poland, and Stalin knows that it would mean the end of his régime, no matter whether his soldiers emerged from a war victorious or vanquished. Litvinov's replacement was decisive. I brought about the change towards Russia gradually. In connection with the commercial treaty we got into political conversations. Proposal for a non-aggression pact. Then came a comprehensive proposal from Russia. Four days ago I took a special step, which led to Russia replying yesterday that she is prepared to sign. Personal contact with Stalin is established. The day after tomorrow von Ribbentrop will conclude the treaty. Now Poland is in the position in which I wanted her.

We need not be afraid of a blockade. The East will supply us with grain, cattle, coal, lead and zinc. It is a mighty aim, which demands great efforts. I am only afraid that at the last moment some swine or other will yet submit to me a plan for mediation.

The political objective goes further. A start has been made on the destruction of England's hegemony. The way will be open for the soldiers after I have made the political preparations.

Today's announcement of the non-aggression pact with Russia came as a bombshell. The consequences cannot be foreseen. Stalin also said that this course will benefit both countries. The effect on Poland will be tremendous.

In reply, Göring thanked the Führer and assured him that the Wehrmacht would do their duty.


reference sources below.

Source of English translation: Speech by the Führer to the Commanders in Chief on August 22, 1939, in United States Department of State, Documents on German Foreign Policy: From the Archives of the German Foreign Ministry. Washington, DC: United States Government Printing Office, 1957-1964. Series D (1937-1945), The Last Days of Peace, Volume 7: August 9 – September 3, 1939. Document 192, pp. 200-04.

Source of original German text: Ansprache Hitlers an die Oberbefehlshaber am 22. August 1939 über seine Absicht, Krieg zu führen und seine politischen Vorbereitungen dazu, sowie Voraussagungen über die Haltung anderer europäischer Staaten und den wahrscheinlichen Kriegsverlauf (Beweisstück US-29), in Der Prozess gegen die Hauptkriegsverbrecher vor dem Internationalen Militärgerichtshof. Nürnberg 14. November 1945 - 1. Oktober 1946. Volume XXVI, Amtlicher Text – Deutsche Ausgabe, Urkunden und anderes Beweismaterial. Nuremberg 1947. Reprint: Munich, Delphin Verlag, 1989. Document 798-PS, pp. 338-44.

I must admit i find that intimating that there is no mention of the united states in document speech?

Crow
Thank you, very interesting.
 

Last edited:

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
Once again I ask you?

You quoted that I should read Speech by the FĂĽhrer to the Commanders in Chief on August 22, 1939.

Your words

Read the document carefully - “Speech by German Reich Chancellor A. Hitler at a meeting with the leaders of the Wehrmacht at the Obersalzber residence on August 22, 1939.”

Where is inside that speech Hitler refers to the words below?

And the plan to destabilize the US economy was developed on the basis of the first option for starting a war. And precisely because the spring plan failed thanks to Canaris,

Is this your words or conclusion?

Crow
 

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
Well if you find some one willing bankroll your project. Tell them to see me I own the brooking bridge if they want to buy it.

Crow
 

Last edited:
OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Once again I ask you?

You quoted that I should read Speech by the FĂĽhrer to the Commanders in Chief on August 22, 1939.

Your words

Read the document carefully - “Speech by German Reich Chancellor A. Hitler at a meeting with the leaders of the Wehrmacht at the Obersalzber residence on August 22, 1939.”

Where is inside that speech Hitler refers to the words below?

And the plan to destabilize the US economy was developed on the basis of the first option for starting a war. And precisely because the spring plan failed thanks to Canaris,

Is this your words or conclusion?

Crow
I didn’t understand the question - translation difficulties, sorry, I don’t speak English. But you made me laugh, do you really think that he should have said in front of everyone, “Because my operation code-named Red Tail failed, we are starting another company.” So what do you think is coming out? And those present would look stunned and the question would be in their thoughts - what is he talking about? (the circle of initiates was very narrow)
 

OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Well if you find some one willing bankroll your project. Tell them to see me I own the brooking bridge if they want to buy it.

Crow
Again, sorry, I didn’t understand (difficulties in translation), you said owner, owner of what?
 

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,335
9,328
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
Sergei

You english is really good perhaps better than mine. A least with spelling. :tongue3:What I meant say was Brooklyn bridge. It was tongue in cheek joke.

Regardless conversation is pointless as your obsessed with what you believe in. even if confronted with facts that disprove your pet theory.
But you made me laugh, do you really think that he should have said in front of everyone, “Because my operation code-named Red Tail

It late my time is too precious wasting time trying to get any sense out of you. You have zero distinction between facts and your own assumptions. I asked for facts you clearly avoid them.

You get confronted with facts you dismiss them you make vague references and ask questions you are vague. That is what egocentrics do. And saddest thing of all you do not realize you are like that. So conversation is pointless.

You will never get backer, partner for your project.

Good bye Sergei.
 

OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Sergei

You english is really good perhaps better than mine. A least with spelling. :tongue3:What I meant say was Brooklyn bridge. It was tongue in cheek joke.

Regardless conversation is pointless as your obsessed with what you believe in. even if confronted with facts that disprove your pet theory.


It late my time is too precious wasting time trying to get any sense out of you. You have zero distinction between facts and your own assumptions. I asked for facts you clearly avoid them.

You get confronted with facts you dismiss them you make vague references and ask questions you are vague. That is what egocentrics do. And saddest thing of all you do not realize you are like that. So conversation is pointless.

You will never get backer, partner for your project.

Good bye Sergei.
This is not my English, this is Google's English. How much do I owe you for your time spent on me?
 

OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
What a clear example of collecting evidence in favor of discrediting the drawing of Lu's map and only because in their opinion " - Since I, who am so smart, that my time is very valuable, could not unravel the scribbles of the drawing, it means that in these scribbles and there's no point."
Those who want look for opportunities; those who don’t want look for reasons. (Socrates).
 

OP
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
213
116
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I have a question for everyone, why in the first and subsequent publications about the treasure of the Lu map, the backstory was described only in the context of Nazi gold secretly imported into the USA before the Second World War? If we assume that this drawing was published simply for entertainment, then why was this prehistory needed with details even about the Nazi who allegedly died without being able to give the key to the decryption? Why are they so “supposedly illiterate” to describe something that, in the opinion of many, including the respected Vorona, could not have happened, because “well, you’ve already read Vorona’s comments.” And if there are those who claim that there was another backstory to this map, let him finally publish it, and I will read it carefully.
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
I have a question for everyone, why in the first and subsequent publications about the treasure of the Lu map, the backstory was described only in the context of Nazi gold secretly imported into the USA before the Second World War?
Easy, because you clearly haven't gone far enough back in your research. Crow and I have both told you, in detail, how the LUE - Nazi Connection was a mid-1990s theory, put forth on these very forums, by a man named Richard Walburn who was a LUE enthusiast. As best I can tell, your research on the LUE itself begins in the 1990s with Richard Walburn, plain and simple. Research on the LUE (as literally spelled out) begins verifiably in 1964 when Karl von Mueller first published the map in Treasure Hunters Manual #7. He and other treasure publications frequently mentioned the LUE for the next 10 years, and then sporadically for another 10 or 15. The single most informative and exhaustive written piece on the LUE to date (besides my own YouTube presentation) was from the National Prospector’s Gazette - Oct/Nov 1969 (Vol. 6 No. 2). This was written by Karl von Mueller as well. Your second most important piece of information are several references and drawings published in a book in 1972 called Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. This was written by Deek Gladson, a pen name of Karl von Mueller. You may notice a pattern here. These items are crucial for a LUE researcher, but these aren't things that are easily available and the majority are not in digital format (at least not published on the web). It seems like your own research is hampered by being overly reliant on the internet, living outside of the U.S., and not being alive in the mid 1970s. And for the record, none of the material from the 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s mentions the LUE and Nazis together. Karl mentioned book published in 1935. This lead was published by Karl von Mueller, and to date nobody I've spoken to has ever secured a copy. Finding one, would be a critical step forward as it would take the provenance of the LUE out of the hands of Karl von Mueller and potentially provide additional information, history, or clues to the map itself which is supposedly published in the book. I have at least 59 pre-Walburn references from 1964 to 1991, not a single mention of the Nazis.
If we assume that this drawing was published simply for entertainment, then why was this prehistory needed with details even about the Nazi who allegedly died without being able to give the key to the decryption? Why are they so “supposedly illiterate” to describe something that, in the opinion of many, including the respected Vorona, could not have happened, because “well, you’ve already read Vorona’s comments.”
Not sure I've seen anyone on this particular thread suggest the map was made for entertainment. The fact that so much of the LUE material begins and ends with Karl von Mueller is admittedly problematic from a research standpoint. There are some who believe he wrote it as a joke, but if he did he worked very hard for over 20 years to keep that joke alive and constantly left himself vulnerable to being exposed. I prefer to think he sincerely reported what he knew, and have nearly a dozen letters Karl wrote to others to suggest this was the case. Lying to magazine subscribers is one thing, lying to people you've known for decades as fellow treasure hunters and business associates is another altogether.
And if there are those who claim that there was another backstory to this map, let him finally publish it, and I will read it carefully.
Karl never published a backstory other than how he came by the map. He suggested the map might be Spanish or Jesuit...others have suggested Mayan, Aztec, Franciscan. More recently, the KGC have been linked to the map. The truth is, it doesn't meet any of these possibilities very well and Karl was by all accounts more focused on recovering the treasure(s) than who placed them there in the first place. It's well known that Karl reportedly made a recovery at Black Lake (Eagles's Nest), New Mexico and Karl reported many other cache locations as he asserted the map led to multiple (as many as 15) cache points throughout Colorado, New Mexico, and Mexico proper.

When it comes to the LUE, there's very little I'm CERTAIN of. One thing (one of the few things) I AM certain of:

THE LUE IS NOT RELATED IN ANY FASHION TO THE NAZIS.
 

Last edited:

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,670
8,913
Primary Interest:
Other
. . . It's well known that Karl reportedly made a recovery at Black Lake (Eagles's Nest), New Mexico and Karl reported many other cache locations as he asserted the map led to multiple (as many as 15) cache points throughout Colorado, New Mexico, and Mexico proper. . . .
"Reportedly" being the key word here, concerning "Karl von Mueller", who had a strong reputation among eager THers, rightfully, or not, vis-a-vis the "LUE". If there is any underlying truth to the "LUE" rumors, IMO Charles Dean Miller (the actual human) may have been onto something that he never clearly identified in the Spanish Peaks region of southern Colorado, where he resided. Or not.

Be that as it may, "Karl von Mueller's reports" would have likely been diversions away from Spanish Peaks, for which "Deek Gladson" may have provided veiled hints in Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. In any case, "Miller/Gladson/Von Mueller" (same guy, different names ... hmmm) is (are) acknowledged in the public media and by a group of LUE devotees as the primary source of LUE lore in the public domain. The "LUE Map" is a puzzle with a thousand solutions, and almost all energy is spent by hopefuls trying to solve the map with little or no regard to the truth of the "legend" itself.

At least Sergei 3 provides a detailed back story with names, dates and history to the hidden loot. And presumably has another solution to the cartoon map. "Miller/Gladson/Von Mueller" never did. I personally consider Segei 3's theory to be preposterous, but that's just my opinion. In that respect, he's no more/no less reliable than "Miller/Gladson/Von Mueller".
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
I personally consider Segei 3's theory to be preposterous, but that's just my opinion. In that respect, he's no more/no less reliable than "Miller/Gladson/Von Mueller".
We've been down this road before and of your premise at the end, I 100% agree....as I stated earlier in this very thread:

"At the end of the day whether you're taken serious or not is irrelevant...there's only one way to verify your conclusions and that involves some digging and a pot of gold. Without that, any theory is as good as the next one. For my part, I'd be pretty happy with a bunch of gold and people that didn't believe me...in fact, I'd call that an ideal situation."

I hope you understand, I'm not a 100% KvM devotee, but if his material is what we have, that's the material we have to use. I've never been anything but forthcoming about the idea that 90% of the LUE coming from KvM was actually a negative from a research perspective. His personal correspondence is much harder for me to refute. It's also why II say I'm certain about very little, because I'd never want my certainty to prevent me from recognizing and evaluating new evidence with a clear mind. It's the biggest reason I hold out hope that the Burch book will one day turn up and shed some light on the earlier origins of the LUE that can once and for all take it solely out of the hands of KvM.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top