"The Lue Map and the Nazi Connection -3"

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Sergei 3

Sergei 3

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Easy, because you clearly haven't gone far enough back in your research. Crow and I have both told you, in detail, how the LUE - Nazi Connection was a mid-1990s theory, put forth on these very forums, by a man named Richard Walburn who was a LUE enthusiast. As best I can tell, your research on the LUE itself begins in the 1990s with Richard Walburn, plain and simple. Research on the LUE (as literally spelled out) begins verifiably in 1964 when Karl von Mueller first published the map in Treasure Hunters Manual #7. He and other treasure publications frequently mentioned the LUE for the next 10 years, and then sporadically for another 10 or 15. The single most informative and exhaustive written piece on the LUE to date (besides my own YouTube presentation) was from the National Prospector’s Gazette - Oct/Nov 1969 (Vol. 6 No. 2). This was written by Karl von Mueller as well. Your second most important piece of information are several references and drawings published in a book in 1972 called Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. This was written by Deek Gladson, a pen name of Karl von Mueller. You may notice a pattern here. These items are crucial for a LUE researcher, but these aren't things that are easily available and the majority are not in digital format (at least not published on the web). It seems like your own research is hampered by being overly reliant on the internet, living outside of the U.S., and not being alive in the mid 1970s. And for the record, none of the material from the 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s mentions the LUE and Nazis together. Karl mentioned book published in 1935. This lead was published by Karl von Mueller, and to date nobody I've spoken to has ever secured a copy. Finding one, would be a critical step forward as it would take the provenance of the LUE out of the hands of Karl von Mueller and potentially provide additional information, history, or clues to the map itself which is supposedly published in the book. I have at least 59 pre-Walburn references from 1964 to 1991, not a single mention of the Nazis.

Not sure I've seen anyone on this particular thread suggest the map was made for entertainment. The fact that so much of the LUE material begins and ends with Karl von Mueller is admittedly problematic from a research standpoint. There are some who believe he wrote it as a joke, but if he did he worked very hard for over 20 years to keep that joke alive and constantly left himself vulnerable to being exposed. I prefer to think he sincerely reported what he knew, and have nearly a dozen letters Karl wrote to others to suggest this was the case. Lying to magazine subscribers is one thing, lying to people you've known for decades as fellow treasure hunters and business associates is another altogether.

Karl never published a backstory other than how he came by the map. He suggested the map might be Spanish or Jesuit...others have suggested Mayan, Aztec, Franciscan. More recently, the KGC have been linked to the map. The truth is, it doesn't meet any of these possibilities very well and Karl was by all accounts more focused on recovering the treasure(s) than who placed them there in the first place. It's well known that Karl reportedly made a recovery at Black Lake (Eagles's Nest), New Mexico and Karl reported many other cache locations as he asserted the map led to multiple (as many as 15) cache points throughout Colorado, New Mexico, and Mexico proper.

When it comes to the LUE, there's very little I'm CERTAIN of. One thing (one of the few things) I AM certain of:

THE LUE IS NOT RELATED IN ANY FASHION TO THE NAZIS.
No, it’s not convincing, the first (in your opinion) publication of the map and precisely with the background was not provided. I first came across this topic in a fairly respected publication, I don’t remember which one, it seems, “Arguments and Facts” and it was described there that Lou’s card appeared in the hands of “Karl Von Müller” due to the fact that he secretly took this drawing out of the service when he served in Nazi Germany. All his life he tried to decipher the map, but in vain, and before his death, in despair, he published with a backstory about Nazi gold. Then, periodically, this backstory was published in editions of other articles. Your “Karl Von Müller” whom you cite is most likely already different .
Moreover, according to the “Crow” participant, when faced with facts, I ignore them, and this is what supposedly egocentrics do (He probably works as a highly paid doctor, since he easily makes diagnoses from a distance).
The facts he cited, so meticulously selected, are supposed to be facts. boil down to only 1. - gold could not be transported to America (but this is not certain) I gave the answer before that not only by submarines and that it could well. 2. America did not plan to participate in World War II (but this is not certain) I already gave the answer America had to enter the war since Hitler planned to start a war with the West. 3. Germany did not have enough gold before the start of the war to bring it to America (but this is not certain) and he could have found the answer in Hitler’s report that he sent to me (but for this you need to think, and this is precious time).
I did not come across actual facts that refute the theory (obviously, excerpts were carefully selected to discredit the theory, thereby justifying its failure)
And I have a question, with everyone who corresponded with you, did you accidentally ask the question - “So why was the card named -Lu?” (No? Strange.) I explained to everyone why and, in my opinion, convincingly - no?
This is psychology, the author took into account the psychology of the majority, the first level of protection for the card is 1. all those who cannot understand and decipher the card will side with its critics and will foam at the mouth to prove its inconsistency and will search for and pull up “facts”, thus thereby discouraging any desire to engage in deciphering seriously.
С уважением, Сергей 3.
 

OP
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Sergei 3

Sergei 3

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And yes, I intended to continue to reveal, reveal, the meaning of the symbols on the map, but it seems that no one needs it and is pointless.
 

Randy Bradford

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No, it’s not convincing, the first (in your opinion) publication of the map and precisely with the background was not provided. I first came across this topic in a fairly respected publication, I don’t remember which one, it seems, “Arguments and Facts” and it was described there that Lou’s card appeared in the hands of “Karl Von Müller” due to the fact that he secretly took this drawing out of the service when he served in Nazi Germany.
OK Sergei, be sure to send us pictures when you make a recovery. I can't see the wisdom in continuing to devote time and energy to this topic where you're concerned. Best luck to ya.
 

OP
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Sergei 3

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But my previous statement did not concern the fact that I will not continue to talk about this card (to fight the psychological barrier - with “Windmills”).
If you read my very first story on this topic, then you remember what I wrote about why I was able to decipher Lu’s map. For me it was just a drawing and I sat down and began to think, I (without false modesty) solved the solution and the main decoding in 30 minutes. I didn’t delve into the Internet or specifically search for all the information on this topic, just analysis and (chess approach). I then took another two weeks to decide on the main details of drawing the map. And I repeat, I was fascinated and amazed by the completeness of the picture and I admired the author for such a daring and dangerous plan.
Have you ever thought about why the theory about Nazi gold is subject to the main criticism?

In conditions of correct understanding of the map and its decoding, there are four main points. The first and most significant, “Direction of decoding” And only based on the background of the Nazis’ import of gold to the United States, it gives 90% of understanding and correct decoding. The second main point, the “Super task”, which is solved subject to understanding and studying everything related to Hitler, his attitude towards America in general and about Americans in particular, Hitler’s plans for America before the outbreak of World War II and his analysis of the political and economic situation at that time moment. (study carefully) His passion for mysticism and isotericism, the formation of the Ahnenerbe, which served as the formation (at the suggestion of Admiral Canaris) and the birth of Operation Red Tail.
The third point is to study all available materials on Admiral Canaris, his biography, especially a description of his childhood. His hobbies, what he loved, what he read, what he was interested in.
I have already written about the fourth and also very significant point.
-Correct understanding and decoding can only be done by someone who does not know English (Why do you think this is so??).

In order to remove the first, most significant, key direction and prevent correct decoding, an information attack began (with “facts”) that this direction is false. And the first who initiated the discrimination, and no matter how strange it may seem to you, were the notorious stone workers, if you know what I mean. They were the first to see their symbols on the map, became interested and almost deciphered the map, but not completely, and even so they decided to seize this gold in 1985-198*, they randomly undertook a large-scale operation to extract gold. But they failed (they couldn’t completely decrypt the card).
And in order to finally close the topic of the map and finally hide the location of the treasure, they changed the main detail in the orientation. Informational discrediting of the direction is still ongoing “just in case.”
 

Crow

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Gidday Randy first of all I enjoyed your presentation on the Lue. it was fair and well balanced,

If any thing you and even Sergi in his own way brought me to a New appreciation on who Karl Von Müller really was. Charles Dean Miller.

I managed to find interesting facts about him via archival records.

Crow
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Crow

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I have few more things about his earlier life via archival documents. It appears that his father either died young or abandoned him and his mother growing up. Perhaps there was a little shame that his father was not around. For some back then it was social stigma. So Charles Dean Miller appears in his early years to be one struggle. Nothing wrong with that as it is charter building. Poverty always fosters the hunger for treasure hunting.

He was entrepreneur living the America dream. He was on the draft registration in 1940 before ww2. In the 1950's he was still living in Nebraska. owning a shop making donuts in Hastings Nebraska with his wife and 2 kids. In the 1930 at age 15 census his mother Matilda worked as cook at institution? no shame in that. It just goes to show a hard working life.

It is interesting to see his fascination for living in Sergungo? Its and old coal mining district.

But don't take my word for it see the documents yourself.

charles dean miller details.JPG

1920 census image below

charles dean miller 1920  census diferent mother.JPG


1930 census image below.

charles dean miller 1930 census matilda mum cook at an insitution..JPG


1940 draft registration card below.

charles dean miller draft registration card.JPG


1950 census with his wife and family image below.

charles dean miller 1950 donut shop owner.JPG


What I do find interesting he has Freemason symbol on his headstone. He would of been exposed to symbology as like on the Lue map. There is another symbol on one side of his head stone and what appears looks like the star of David a Jewish symbol on the other?

Was Charles Dean Miller of Jewish decent? But on closer inspection with my crappy eyes. it was of 5 pointed star? In modern times the pentagram is most often associated with Neo-Pagan religions, especially Wicca. It is often depicted enclosed in a circle, a symbol known as a pentacle. In these traditions the five points often represent the five elements of air, fire, water, earth, and spirit. So even in death he still poses questions. I suspect he had bit of mischievous spirit with in him?

charles dean miller head stone.JPG


An interesting character. Much more complex a person that all of us can fUlly imagine. I could not find ww2 pension records so far. So he may of been Drafted? I am not sure he served overseas? But JUST stayed in states? It seems he was involved in aircraft industry during this time.

So there you are is no evidence in Sergi's claims or another person by the name Karl Von Muller had the map while serving in Germany? Charles Dean Miller who wrote under the pen Name,of Karl Von Muller.

Or As for anyone else with that name. Karl Von Muller going to Germany obtaining the map. there was only one recorded in archive have that name in the united states. he never served in the military in ww2 because he died in 1907.

Charles Dean Miller used the name Karl Von Muller. The German word Müller means "miller" (as a profession). It is the most common family surname in Germany, Switzerland, and the French départements of Bas-Rhin and Moselle (with the spelling Müller, Mueller or Muller) and is the fifth most common surname in Austria.

Karl is a boy's name with German origins. The name Karl means “free

is used in German surnames either as a nobiliary particle indicating a noble patrilineality, or as a simple preposition used by commoners that means 'of' or 'from'.

So perhaps Karl Von Muller is in essence word play free from Miller.

I suspect his pen name for his books Karl Von Muller was a private joke. That is why he kept his private life away from the public.

Anyway if anything a little more insight into person who brought the world to attention of the Lue map in his books public.

Crow
 

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Randy Bradford

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Jun 27, 2004
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I have few more things about his earlier life via archival documents. It appears that his father either died young or abandoned him and his mother growing up. Perhaps there was a little shame that his father was not around. For some back then it was social stigma. So Charles Dean Miller appears in his early years to be one struggle. Nothing wrong with that as it is charter building. Poverty always fosters the hunger for treasure hunting.

He was entrepreneur living the America dream. He was on the draft registration in 1940 before ww2. In the 1950's he was still living in Nebraska. owning a shop making donuts in Hastings Nebraska with his wife and 2 kids. In the 1930 at age 15 census his mother Matilda worked as cook at institution? no shame in that. It just goes to show a hard working life.

It is interesting to see his fascination for living in Sergungo? Its and old coal mining district.

But don't take my word for it see the documents yourself.

View attachment 2137238
1920 census image below

View attachment 2137239

1930 census image below.

View attachment 2137240

1940 draft registration card below.

View attachment 2137241

1950 census with his wife and family image below.

View attachment 2137242

What I do find interesting he has Freemason symbol on his headstone. He would of been exposed to symbology as like on the Lue map. There is another symbol on one side of his head stone and what appears looks like the star of David a Jewish symbol on the other?

Was Charles Dean Miller of Jewish decent? But on closer inspection with my crappy eyes. it was of 5 pointed star? In modern times the pentagram is most often associated with Neo-Pagan religions, especially Wicca. It is often depicted enclosed in a circle, a symbol known as a pentacle. In these traditions the five points often represent the five elements of air, fire, water, earth, and spirit. So even in death he still poses questions. I suspect he had bit of mischievous spirit with in him?

View attachment 2137245

An interesting character. Much more complex a person that all of us can fUlly imagine. I could not find ww2 pension records so far. So he may of been Drafted? I am not sure he served overseas? But JUST stayed in states? It seems he was involved in aircraft industry during this time.

So there you are is no evidence in Sergi's claims or another person by the name Karl Von Muller had the map while serving in Germany? Charles Dean Miller who wrote under the pen Name,of Karl Von Muller.

Or As for anyone else with that name. Karl Von Muller going to Germany obtaining the map. there was only one recorded in archive have that name in the united states. he never served in the military in ww2 because he died in 1907.

Charles Dean Miller used the name Karl Von Muller. The German word Müller means "miller" (as a profession). It is the most common family surname in Germany, Switzerland, and the French départements of Bas-Rhin and Moselle (with the spelling Müller, Mueller or Muller) and is the fifth most common surname in Austria.

Karl is a boy's name with German origins. The name Karl means “free

is used in German surnames either as a nobiliary particle indicating a noble patrilineality, or as a simple preposition used by commoners that means 'of' or 'from'.

So perhaps Karl Von Muller is in essence word play free from Miller.

I suspect his pen name for his books Karl Von Muller was a private joke. That is why he kept his private life away from the public.

Anyway if anything a little more insight into person who brought the world to attention of the Lue map in his books public.

Crow
Crow, fantastic bit of sleuthing. I can shed a lot more light on your conclusions later as I'm at work and all my notes are at home. Two things are repeatedly evident with Karl in his Nebraska years....he was absolutely looking to be his own boss and he was trying his hand at "branding." He would later hit paydirt with "Exanimo" as his brand name and the word is synonymous with Karl even 30 years after his death. It might even be worth a thread of its own but this is indeed a fascinating avenue of study. Lots more later...
 

Randy Bradford

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Jun 27, 2004
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Gidday Randy first of all I enjoyed your presentation on the Lue. it was fair and well balanced,

If any thing you and even Sergi in his own way brought me to a New appreciation on who Karl Von Müller really was. Charles Dean Miller.

I managed to find interesting facts about him via archival records.

Crow
:icon_thumleft:
Let me know if you want a transcript, I put one together last year including most of the photos from the slides and a few margin notes (so to speak) regarding things I've learned or put together since I gave that presentation. And thank you for the kind words, I'd like to do that presentation again sometime but as one might imagine the audience is both small and ever dwindling.
 

sdcfia

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Great work Crow, as usual.

Regarding Miller's LUE legacy, IMO his only influential work is Treasure of the Valley of Secrets, released in 1971 under his second pseudonym "Deek Gladson" (includes considerable discussion of Chapter 53 from a 1907 book, The Scarlet Shadow - A Story of the Great Colorado Conspiracy). Highly recommended, TVS includes numerous drawings of petroglyphs, including a couple which folks have linked to the LUE cartoon map. There used to be an early 2000s TNet poster named Patrick Donnell whose family spent considerable time searching for TVS clues, apparently with some success. If there are any legs for the mythical LUE to stand on, I believe it will be somewhere up in the headwaters country of the Purgatoire River in the Culebras Range.

[BTW, off-topic, but Chapter 53 from The Scarlet Shadow is itself a rather bizarre inclusion in the otherwise bland book about labor relations in early Colorado].

TVS.png
 

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Randy Bradford

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Great work Crow, as usual.

Regarding Miller's LUE legacy, IMO his only influential work is Treasure of the Valley of Secrets, released in 1971 under his second pseudonym "Deek Gladson" (includes considerable discussion of Chapter 53 from a 1907 book, The Scarlet Shadow - A Story of the Great Colorado Conspiracy). Highly recommended, TVS includes numerous drawings of petroglyphs, including a couple which folks have linked to the LUE cartoon map. There used to be an early 2000s TNet poster named Patrick Donnell whose family spent considerable time searching for TVS clues, apparently with some success. If there are any legs for the mythical LUE to stand on, I believe it will be somewhere up in the headwaters country of the Purgatoire River in the Culebras Range.

[BTW, off-topic, but Chapter 53 from The Scarlet Shadow is itself a rather bizarre inclusion in the otherwise bland book about labor relations in early Colorado].

View attachment 2137280
TVoS is an enigma top to bottom. LUE references are scattered about but Karl repeatedly indicates the cave of gold is NOT the LUE. The LUE stuff is scattered about rather randomly and doesn't seem to flow with the overall theme of the book.

HOWEVER, TVoS has one easy to overlook aspect that makes it profoundly useful and valuable. Karl explains in detail his efforts to run down different parts of the Cave of Gold story and avenues explored in doing so. This particular part of the book, is literally a road map on how to conduct good research and follow up. It's not presented that way, but anyone with aspirations for researching any topic would do well to review it. It's a masterclass in tracking down, evaluating, and utilizing leads while also being open to new possibilities, unintended additional leads, and how to thoroughly exhaust avenues of inquiry. Can't stress this enough.

Karl's inclusion of the chapter from The Scarlet Shadow is fundamental to the premise of TVoS as it lays the groundwork for the Cave of Gold story. What fascinates me is that the entire book was written as fiction, why Karl ever became convinced it was a real account of actual events is beyond me. Interestingly, the company that originally published the Scarlet Shadow was also a pretty serious publisher of pro-communist materials in the early 1900s, which might explain the pro-union slant of the Scarlet Shadow.

Patrick Donnell was indeed a prolific researcher of the LUE and his father was as well in the 1970s. Both are now deceased unfortunately. I've seen number of correspondence from Karl both to and about Patrick's father, and Karl did indeed believe he had made a recovery. Patrick himself posted some interesting pictures of a location he locked down that appeared to be a wood-framed air shaft with some symbols, including an Iron Cross, plainly visible. Patrick was convinced it was a LUE cache site, it was in southern Colorado, but I believe it was on government land and he did not work out a means of exploring his discovery prior to his passing.
 

sdcfia

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. . . HOWEVER, TVoS has one easy to overlook aspect that makes it profoundly useful and valuable. Karl explains in detail his efforts to run down different parts of the Cave of Gold story and avenues explored in doing so. This particular part of the book, is literally a road map on how to conduct good research and follow up. It's not presented that way, but anyone with aspirations for researching any topic would do well to review it. It's a masterclass in tracking down, evaluating, and utilizing leads while also being open to new possibilities, unintended additional leads, and how to thoroughly exhaust avenues of inquiry. Can't stress this enough . . .

Critical thing ought to be a way of life for all problem solvers. I doubt Miller wrote TVS as a teaching aid, but I also imagine he could get mighty frustrated with some of his followers. Many THers hold on to incorrect beliefs regardless of verifiable evidence to the contrary - or at least other possibilities.

. . . Karl's inclusion of the chapter from The Scarlet Shadow is fundamental to the premise of TVoS as it lays the groundwork for the Cave of Gold story. What fascinates me is that the entire book was written as fiction, why Karl ever became convinced it was a real account of actual events is beyond me. Interestingly, the company that originally published the Scarlet Shadow was also a pretty serious publisher of pro-communist materials in the early 1900s, which might explain the pro-union slant of the Scarlet Shadow. . . .

I'm ambivalent about Miller. He gave good advice to many, yes, but I'm not convinced he had proprietary intel about any genuine treasures. TVS may have been an exception as it was seemingly important to him. However, human nature tells me that anyone who truly knows valuable secrets does not reveal true details. Who would?

. . . Patrick Donnell was indeed a prolific researcher of the LUE and his father was as well in the 1970s. Both are now deceased unfortunately. I've seen number of correspondence from Karl both to and about Patrick's father, and Karl did indeed believe he had made a recovery. Patrick himself posted some interesting pictures of a location he locked down that appeared to be a wood-framed air shaft with some symbols, including an Iron Cross, plainly visible. Patrick was convinced it was a LUE cache site, it was in southern Colorado, but I believe it was on government land and he did not work out a means of exploring his discovery prior to his passing.

I traded numerous emails with him in 2002. He was no-nonsense and put a lot of time and energy in the Culebras. At least he identified what he believed the LUE was - 1700s Spanish mining caches from old Aztec sites. Rings truer than Nazi gold in submarines.
 

Crow

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Small world! Patrick Donnell contacted a associate of mine. He tried to interest my associate in a project. but my associate was retired and no longer interested in any ventures. At the time.

Patrick gave different details to interest my associate. Patrick spoke of a cave or a mine addict that had gold ore that had been high graded over many years from cripple creek from 1893 to about 1905 during the time of labour strife. A million dollars a year at 1900 gold prices was pilfered. Many miners was involved in pilfering on the side.

Roughly 19 dollars per ounce over 12 year period where over a million dollars a year was high graded. 12 million dollars at 19 dollars adding up to 631587 ounces.

Would be rough 1.36 billion into days values. Several people was involved. he said the strange chapter in book scarlet Shadow written by a dedicated Bolshevik Walter hurt gave description of where this gold was hidden. It was placed there as part of plot to over throw the government of the day.

There was a growing discontent and growing resentment for average lot of workers in the mines. Where mine workers was being exploited by mine owners. Ironically as gold recovery was falling so mine owners cut wages that es-abated the problem in one vicious circle

Patrick told my associate Stories of gold being and Spanish mine and Aztec gold was more convenient and a smoke screen to hide the origin of where the stolen gold came from. So there would not be claims from the original mines the gold was pilfered from. There was accusations from the mine owners of day but nothing was proven. Only a select few was privy to golds location., none of the main players profited from it.

Patrick said many of old time miners knew about the conspiracy to high grade on grand scale . but even with them only the Bits a pieces of it that was second hand. knew about it as well as Charles Dean Miller, that the location was some where in or near.the head waters of purgatorie river in small valley with town entry points and small lake.

Was it true or just another WILD theory. I do not know.. My associate would of heard that about in 2004.

My associate told me that Patrick interested in some one with capacity to remove liquidate gold into other assets undetected. It never came to be and Patrick made no mention of Lue

Crow
 

Randy Bradford

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I have few more things about his earlier life via archival documents. It appears that his father either died young or abandoned him and his mother growing up. Perhaps there was a little shame that his father was not around. For some back then it was social stigma. So Charles Dean Miller appears in his early years to be one struggle. Nothing wrong with that as it is charter building. Poverty always fosters the hunger for treasure hunting.

He was entrepreneur living the America dream. He was on the draft registration in 1940 before ww2. In the 1950's he was still living in Nebraska. owning a shop making donuts in Hastings Nebraska with his wife and 2 kids. In the 1930 at age 15 census his mother Matilda worked as cook at institution? no shame in that. It just goes to show a hard working life.

Crow
Crow, here's some tidbits I've harvested, I think you'll like my trail of breadcrumbs...

Before making donuts, Karl worked as a police officer in Hastings, NE.

1710593849841.png

The Hastings Daily Tribune (Hastings, Nebraska) 20 January 1947 -Monday - Page 9
HOWEVER, this wasn't a long engagement...
1710593987889.png

The Hastings Daily Tribune (Hastings, Nebraska) 10 September 1947 -Wednesday - Page 9

Karl (Charles Dean Miller) did indeed work in a doughnut shop, but I believe he may have actually owned it. This appears several months before several months' worth of daily newspaper ads (beginning in January of 1950) advertising the donuts and suggests Karl had a much bigger venture in mind:
img

The Hastings Daily Tribune (Hastings, Nebraska) 14 September 1949-Wednesday - Page 11

Notice Golden Rich, this is going to be a theme and Karl's first efforts at branding.

Here he switches from (or adds to existing business) trying to franchise the recipe.
1710597136481.png

Popular Science (August 1949)
 

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Randy Bradford

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Then I found this gem in "The Billboard" magazine, of all places:
1710594931069.png

The Billboard (Magazine) -April 8, 1950 Pg. 202
It's unclear if Karl has given up on donuts, or if he's burning the candle at both ends. Of course, what stands out is the name Golden-Rich (you'll also see it as Golden Rich and Goldenrich)

Karl's first efforts at writing start soon as well. He published two books, "The African Violet Manual" and "The Model's Manual." Interesting here is Karl's reliance on the idea of a "Manual." This would also be a calling card going forward for published and unpublished works of his.

1710595608492.png

The Billboard (Magazine) - August 12, 1950 Pg. 88

1710596102457.png

The Billboard (magazine) -August 19, 1950 - Pg. 95

This one I post, because here Karl has changed Golden Rich from a company, to a firm and ultimately a Press. Both Models and Violet are published under Goldenrich Press out of Hastings, Nebraska.

1710595910360.png

The Billboard (Magazine) - May 31, 1952 Pg. 73


Keep in mind, Karl was an amateur radio and CB enthusiast which explains his focus (I assume) on placing items in Billboard Magazine.

Karl will begin publishing the National Prospector's Gazette in October 1954. He also begin technical writing (ironically, manuals) for the airline industry at this time as well. For the record, his time in the Bellflower, CA area is rather vague...even more so in the late 1950s when he lives briefly in Salt Lake City...he's doing technical writing then as well but a letter I read from him to Johnny Pounds indicates he was working on a project with top secret clearance and might explain why there is so little information about his time in Utah.
 

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sdcfia

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Small world! Patrick Donnell contacted a associate of mine. He tried to interest my associate in a project. but my associate was retired and no longer interested in any ventures. At the time.

Patrick gave different details to interest my associate. Patrick spoke of a cave or a mine addict that had gold ore that had been high graded over many years from cripple creek from 1893 to about 1905 during the time of labour strife. A million dollars a year at 1900 gold prices was pilfered. Many miners was involved in pilfering on the side.

Roughly 19 dollars per ounce over 12 year period where over a million dollars a year was high graded. 12 million dollars at 19 dollars adding up to 631587 ounces.

Would be rough 1.36 billion into days values. Several people was involved. he said the strange chapter in book scarlet Shadow written by a dedicated Bolshevik Walter hurt gave description of where this gold was hidden. It was placed there as part of plot to over throw the government of the day.

There was a growing discontent and growing resentment for average lot of workers in the mines. Where mine workers was being exploited by mine owners. Ironically as gold recovery was falling so mine owners cut wages that es-abated the problem in one vicious circle

Patrick told my associate Stories of gold being and Spanish mine and Aztec gold was more convenient and a smoke screen to hide the origin of where the stolen gold came from. So there would not be claims from the original mines the gold was pilfered from. There was accusations from the mine owners of day but nothing was proven. Only a select few was privy to golds location., none of the main players profited from it.

Patrick said many of old time miners knew about the conspiracy to high grade on grand scale . but even with them only the Bits a pieces of it that was second hand. knew about it as well as Charles Dean Miller, that the location was some where in or near.the head waters of purgatorie river in small valley with town entry points and small lake.

Was it true or just another WILD theory. I do not know.. My associate would of heard that about in 2004.

My associate told me that Patrick interested in some one with capacity to remove liquidate gold into other assets undetected. It never came to be and Patrick made no mention of Lue

Crow
Interesting post Crow, on more than one level. Donnell was only showing cards that would benefit him. As I said above, nobody with what they consider proprietary information will ever reveal their best hand. With me, he was looking for carving symbol info under the guise of the usual "Spanish mine, Aztec" bait. With your pal, he needed a partnership, and revealed what he considered the true source of the rumors. Human nature never fails. A good thing for every THer to keep in mind.

Ironically, per Donnell, the "Bolshevik plan" for the alleged miners' high-grade loot was to use it to help overthrow the US government. Funny - a generation later, the Nazis were alleged to be planning to use the "LUE" loot for the same purpose. Even funnier, another generation later (70s/80s), the KGC explosion of allegations indicated that their many gold caches (some have included the "LUE" too) were going to come out of the ground when the US government collapsed, along with the US $dollar$ and would be in the hands of a new ruling class. Doncha love this stuff?

The alleged early 1900s Bolshevik high-grading scheme I find fascinating, probably because I witnessed first hand high-grading in a Colorado underground mine in 1974, while I was working there. Long story short, the Idarado Mine (primarily base metals from massive rich sulfide veins) could not keep their best experienced stope miners on the payroll unless they allowed high-grading of the occasional native gold occurrences in quartz vugs. Otherwise, the miners would go to work instead on other lucrative (and much safer) infrastructure jobs in the state that were booming (pun intended) at the time - such as highway tunnels, et al. I saw with my own eyes wooden dynamite boxes full of quartz/gold jewelry rock in one of the miner's garages in Montrose CO. They accumulated what they could in a year's time and sold it to a Red Chinese agent who "made the rounds" and paid a premium price in cash.

[[ On a side note, a bona-fide lost treasure resulted from this Idarado high-grading. One of the miners was paranoid about keeping the stash in his garage and would hide it in a safe place somewhere close to the highway in a rocky area between Montrose and Ouray CO. He died unexpectedly without ever disclosing the location, even to his wife. As of 1974, when I left the area, the loot had not been located. ]]
 

Ryano

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Feb 16, 2014
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Small world! Patrick Donnell contacted a associate of mine. He tried to interest my associate in a project. but my associate was retired and no longer interested in any ventures. At the time.

Patrick gave different details to interest my associate. Patrick spoke of a cave or a mine addict that had gold ore that had been high graded over many years from cripple creek from 1893 to about 1905 during the time of labour strife. A million dollars a year at 1900 gold prices was pilfered. Many miners was involved in pilfering on the side.

Roughly 19 dollars per ounce over 12 year period where over a million dollars a year was high graded. 12 million dollars at 19 dollars adding up to 631587 ounces.

Would be rough 1.36 billion into days values. Several people was involved. he said the strange chapter in book scarlet Shadow written by a dedicated Bolshevik Walter hurt gave description of where this gold was hidden. It was placed there as part of plot to over throw the government of the day.

There was a growing discontent and growing resentment for average lot of workers in the mines. Where mine workers was being exploited by mine owners. Ironically as gold recovery was falling so mine owners cut wages that es-abated the problem in one vicious circle

Patrick told my associate Stories of gold being and Spanish mine and Aztec gold was more convenient and a smoke screen to hide the origin of where the stolen gold came from. So there would not be claims from the original mines the gold was pilfered from. There was accusations from the mine owners of day but nothing was proven. Only a select few was privy to golds location., none of the main players profited from it.

Patrick said many of old time miners knew about the conspiracy to high grade on grand scale . but even with them only the Bits a pieces of it that was second hand. knew about it as well as Charles Dean Miller, that the location was some where in or near.the head waters of purgatorie river in small valley with town entry points and small lake.

Was it true or just another WILD theory. I do not know.. My associate would of heard that about in 2004.

My associate told me that Patrick interested in some one with capacity to remove liquidate gold into other assets undetected. It never came to be and Patrick made no mention of Lue

Crow
Well that answers just about all of my questions about TVOS ! thanks for sharing!
 

sdcfia

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Sep 28, 2014
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. . . Karl will begin publishing the National Prospector's Gazette in October 1954. He also begin technical writing (ironically, manuals) for the airline industry at this time as well. For the record, his time in the Bellflower, CA area is rather vague...even more so in the late 1950s when he lives briefly in Salt Lake City...he's doing technical writing then as well but a letter I read from him to Johnny Pounds indicates he was working on a project with top secret clearance and might explain why there is so little information about his time in Utah.
Great snooping Randy - you could write this man's biography.

You've established that Miller tried his hand at many trades prior to 1954. One thing seems to stand out - he was very experienced at selling things. I find the "top secret" Utah period odd, as well as his penchant for using multiple aliases. The candle on the cake is the "LUE".
 

Randy Bradford

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Jun 27, 2004
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Great snooping Randy - you could write this man's biography.

You've established that Miller tried his hand at many trades prior to 1954. One thing seems to stand out - he was very experienced at selling things. I find the "top secret" Utah period odd, as well as his penchant for using multiple aliases. The candle on the cake is the "LUE".
Karl did sell things but treasure wasn't one of them. He was a very vocal critic of "big" stories like the Dutchman and the Lost Adams. I have two letters right here he wrote True West magazine in the 1950s indicating as such and he repeats this theme throughout his published work for decades. The other things all of those jobs have in common, is they were designed for passive income and allowing folks to be their own boss. That's why Karl was so focused on things like recycling, repurposing (what we'd call "Hacks"), living off the grid and being a master of one's own financial destiny instead of punching a clock. What I see in Hastings is a man trying to find himself, literally and figuratively, and willing to take risks to find a life that will let him lead it on his own terms.

The Top Secret came straight from a letter...if memory serves me he was doing technical manuals for a rocket program. The Top Secret isn't all that surprising, nor nearly as impressive as it sounds...though that might not be the case in the 1950s. He has been writing technical manuals for aircraft companies in California, so the idea of picking up a lucrative government contract isn't all that hard to believe. I don't have a copy of that letter, but i read it first hand and might go back to the source some time.

The NPG started floundering in California as Karl wasn't on hand to attend to it. I DO have a bunch of letters between Karl, Johnny Pounds, and a third party related to this as the third party wanted to buy the paper, Johnny wanted to sell (as he was solely responsible for this and his own newsletter at this point) and Karl who was digging his heals in despite not being able to devote time and energy to the NPG. When Karl restarts the NPG in 1969, he starts with Volume 6. Ideally, Volumes 1 through 5 (NPG, not his Treasure Hunters Manuals mind you) were printed in California beginning in 1954. Volumes 1 - 3 were printed (approximately 12-14 issues) but as best I can verify, volumes 4 and 5 were never printed despite being accounted for in the counting system when he starts the paper back up a decade later. He never returns to California permanently as best I can tell.

As for the pen names, I have a few thoughts on that.
1) Karl didn't like his name, not his first one anyway. I've seen him write as C.D. Miller, Charles Dean Miller, Dean Miller, C. Dean Miller, but never simply by his first and last name. Your guess is as good as mine on this front but it's always struck me as peculiar that he never went by his first name.
2) I think his main moniker as Karl von Mueller was part of his branding scheme along with Exanimo, plain and simple. Karl also ascribed nicknames to most everyone he talked about. There might be a cultural peace here, either from the time period or from the treasure hunting fraternity (i.e. anonymity). Even his interest in C.B.s where folks generally used "handles" instead of names. Point is we look on this in 2024 with skepticism and doubt, back then it may have been a much more common practice. If his names were a secret they didn't stay that way for long.
3) Probably most likely, and most pragmatically, was a tendency for writers, particularly those who wrote for magazines, to use multiple names so they could submit multiple materials (often reprints to other magazines) at the same time. Generally magazines wouldn't be included to print more then one submission by an author at a time, so using multiple names could easily lead to a greater pay day. This was a practice well established by Maurice Kildare, who literally published something like 800 articles under two dozen different pen names. Xanthus Carson originally published as Kit Carson and went back and forth for over a decade between the two. Ed Bartholomew, noted Western Scholar, wrote serious materials about the West, Gunfighters, etc. while running his own book publisher and distributor. He published treasure hunting books, some of the best in the business (The Golden Crescent comes to mind) as Jesse Rascoe. I've been led to believe this was because treasure wasn't seen as a serious topic and he wished to preserve his academic reputation by using the second name.
 

point hunter

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Feb 1, 2007
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West Monroe, Louisiana
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I have few more things about his earlier life via archival documents. It appears that his father either died young or abandoned him and his mother growing up. Perhaps there was a little shame that his father was not around. For some back then it was social stigma. So Charles Dean Miller appears in his early years to be one struggle. Nothing wrong with that as it is charter building. Poverty always fosters the hunger for treasure hunting.

He was entrepreneur living the America dream. He was on the draft registration in 1940 before ww2. In the 1950's he was still living in Nebraska. owning a shop making donuts in Hastings Nebraska with his wife and 2 kids. In the 1930 at age 15 census his mother Matilda worked as cook at institution? no shame in that. It just goes to show a hard working life.

It is interesting to see his fascination for living in Sergungo? Its and old coal mining district.

But don't take my word for it see the documents yourself.

View attachment 2137238
1920 census image below

View attachment 2137239

1930 census image below.

View attachment 2137240

1940 draft registration card below.

View attachment 2137241

1950 census with his wife and family image below.

View attachment 2137242

What I do find interesting he has Freemason symbol on his headstone. He would of been exposed to symbology as like on the Lue map. There is another symbol on one side of his head stone and what appears looks like the star of David a Jewish symbol on the other?

Was Charles Dean Miller of Jewish decent? But on closer inspection with my crappy eyes. it was of 5 pointed star? In modern times the pentagram is most often associated with Neo-Pagan religions, especially Wicca. It is often depicted enclosed in a circle, a symbol known as a pentacle. In these traditions the five points often represent the five elements of air, fire, water, earth, and spirit. So even in death he still poses questions. I suspect he had bit of mischievous spirit with in him?

View attachment 2137245

An interesting character. Much more complex a person that all of us can fUlly imagine. I could not find ww2 pension records so far. So he may of been Drafted? I am not sure he served overseas? But JUST stayed in states? It seems he was involved in aircraft industry during this time.

So there you are is no evidence in Sergi's claims or another person by the name Karl Von Muller had the map while serving in Germany? Charles Dean Miller who wrote under the pen Name,of Karl Von Muller.

Or As for anyone else with that name. Karl Von Muller going to Germany obtaining the map. there was only one recorded in archive have that name in the united states. he never served in the military in ww2 because he died in 1907.

Charles Dean Miller used the name Karl Von Muller. The German word Müller means "miller" (as a profession). It is the most common family surname in Germany, Switzerland, and the French départements of Bas-Rhin and Moselle (with the spelling Müller, Mueller or Muller) and is the fifth most common surname in Austria.

Karl is a boy's name with German origins. The name Karl means “free

is used in German surnames either as a nobiliary particle indicating a noble patrilineality, or as a simple preposition used by commoners that means 'of' or 'from'.

So perhaps Karl Von Muller is in essence word play free from Miller.

I suspect his pen name for his books Karl Von Muller was a private joke. That is why he kept his private life away from the public.

Anyway if anything a little more insight into person who brought the world to attention of the Lue map in his books public.

Crow
Hi Crow. Looking @ Mr. Miller's headstone, I'm fairly sure the 5-pointed star is a symbol of the female related group (think wives) to the Masons called the "Order of the Eastern Star". On a side note, both the Masons and the 5-pointed star have been associated with the KGC.
 

point hunter

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Feb 1, 2007
148
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West Monroe, Louisiana
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Great snooping Randy - you could write this man's biography.

You've established that Miller tried his hand at many trades prior to 1954. One thing seems to stand out - he was very experienced at selling things. I find the "top secret" Utah period odd, as well as his penchant for using multiple aliases. The candle on the cake is the "LUE".
Hi. IMHO, this timeline does add merit of the original story of the LUE map as told by KVM. It seems to me that his Utah years put him on a path which he pursued the rest of his born days. A huge question in my mind, is other than masonic knowledge (which I assume he had) what or who provided additional clues to give the LUE a provenance that he was willing to investigate.
 

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