"The Lue Map and the Nazi Connection -3"

mdog

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Mar 22, 2011
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Karl first mentioned the 105 degree 12.5 latitude parallel in the Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. I believe Tom Hilton might have been the first to publish this detail, however. Karl would refer to this clue repeatedly throughout his writing on the LUE over the years. Tom Hilton, interestingly, published this in a magazine article deeply critical of the LUE but would later write an article about the Beale treasure, where he makes a case for the mine Beale and co. dug their gold and silver being on the same parallel. I found his insistence on using the same clue with a completely different treasure interesting.

Tom Hilton was alleged by Karl in the NPG to have come to the Exanimo shop frequently during the height of the LUE craze and inferred that Hilton was prone to nagging for information and went as far as to camp in the mountains and spy on folks who were looking for LUE caches. It's worth noting that Long John Latham, who owned and published True Treasure and Treasure World published the Hilton article and repeatedly took shots at Karl in his editorials without naming Karl outright. Similarly, Hilton never credited Karl one bit with any aspect of the LUE story or as a source of information.

Karl did indicated multiple individuals recovered gold at Black Lake (near Eagle's Nest) New Mexico, but publicly I don't think he ever indicated he was one of them. Privately is another story. There were rumors for years that Karl did make that recovery and I have a letter Karl wrote himself admitting that he and Hardrock Hammond make a recovery in 1958. Karl mentions at least 6 other places where recoveries were made as well and speculated other locations were yet to be made.

One other thing about the 40 acres. The Black Lake caches were spread out over an indeterminate area in what Karl referred to as "pots." As I read it, many pots (implied to be roughly 100 pounds of ore or unrefined gold) were spread out over the area, relatively close to the surface...less than a foot deep if memory serves me correct. One can surmise these pots were buried in some sort of discernable configuration. Roy Roush speculated a KGC alignment with pots being laid out at regular intervals if one knew how to calibrate an overlay. My sense is that Karl did not have an overlay but rather found the area through the LUE map and used a metal detector to locate some of the smaller, individual pots. He complained a number of times about how the mineralization in the soil made operating a detector quite difficult and felt that was a large part of why Tom Hilton failed in locating any remaining treasure in the area.
Thanks Randy. If Tom Hilton never gave Von Mueller any credit for the LUE story, he probably wouldn't have given him credit for the 40 acre comment. The mention of Fort Knox, Black Lake and the 40 acre comment would indicate knowledge of where the map led, according to my mapping. However. in order to connect the correct points, you would have to have a map that showed you great circle segments and they didn't have google earth, back in those days. A flat map wouldn't have worked.
 

mdog

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Mar 22, 2011
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The five peaks on the right side form a pentagon. The pentagon represents the constellation Auriga. The brightest star of the constellation is the yellow star Capella. The mirror image of Auriga, on the ground, would show Capella at the Blanca Peak spot. There are treasure legends associated with each peak except for Black Mountain. Black is a word that pops up often. Von Mueller has mentioned Black Lake, New Mexico as a LUE site. The longitudes of Black Mt. and Black Lake are about the same, Black Mt. 105 deg 14' 44" and Black Lake 105 deg 15' 48".
This is Masonic stuff and since Von Mueller was a Mason, he might have known what the solution was but, without the great circle mapping, he wouldn't know how the problem was solved. He couldn't find the points.
lue 10.jpg
 

mdog

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Mar 22, 2011
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I just read Tom Hilton's story and it sounds like he was fed a lot of false information. Also, right off at the beginning of his story, he mentioned the 40 acres of gold and I got the impression that he was repeating something he was told.
 

Randy Bradford

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I just read Tom Hilton's story and it sounds like he was fed a lot of false information. Also, right off at the beginning of his story, he mentioned the 40 acres of gold and I got the impression that he was repeating something he was told.
I think you are right on both accounts. The largest glaring problem though, is he never REALLY explains at how he derived at his outcomes. I think he was given some coordinates and he tried to reverse engineer them and in the end he clearly pulled a lot of it out of his rectum. He literally writes about drawing random lines and triangles on a topo with no clear indication as to HOW he came to pick the landmarks, what to draw, how far, what direction, etc...yet is somehow puts him right on Black Lake. Incidentally, he mentions making multiple trips to the area...lot of work for a treasure he feels is a false flag. Most would have been convinced the first time. Keep in mind, he lived in Cimerron, so all of this...including Karl's Exanimo headquarters, were more or less in his back yard.
 

sdcfia

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Randy, I was scanning the voluminous info you sent me vis-a-vis the Von Mueller/LUE writings some time ago - thanks again, great job collecting and collating the lore. One theme that struck me was VM's assertions that he believed over 100 people had correctly solved the map, a silent handful had exploited the stashes, and that the 40 acre site may have been virtually emptied.
 

Randy Bradford

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Randy, I was scanning the voluminous info you sent me vis-a-vis the Von Mueller/LUE writings some time ago - thanks again, great job collecting and collating the lore. One theme that struck me was VM's assertions that he believed over 100 people had correctly solved the map, a silent handful had exploited the stashes, and that the 40 acre site may have been virtually emptied.
Karl always maintained there was more than one location for the LUE but your assessment of Black Lake is spot on...he did indicate he felt it was cleared out. It's entirely possible it wasn't but there are still other unfound sites and a question about whether or not other rumored locations were also completely cleared out. He mentions a lot of people being close, in some cases on top of caches and not finding them. I can only assume this means those searchers were missing some vital final clue to narrow down the locations. My suspicion is Hilton was fed enough information to put him close without revealing an actual recovery, or he was deliberately sent to Black Lake because t had been cleaned out. Either way Karl makes it clear Hilton didn't put in the work and wanted to be spoon fed a treasure location. In response, Hilton trashed the LUE story in one of the few examples where a published treasure story claims in no uncertain terms that a treasure is a hoax. I've collected hundreds of treasure magazines, I can't recall another instance of this happening even when it's a commonly held belief (that a story is a hoax).
 

Crow

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Karl always maintained there was more than one location for the LUE but your assessment of Black Lake is spot on...he did indicate he felt it was cleared out. It's entirely possible it wasn't but there are still other unfound sites and a question about whether or not other rumored locations were also completely cleared out. He mentions a lot of people being close, in some cases on top of caches and not finding them. I can only assume this means those searchers were missing some vital final clue to narrow down the locations. My suspicion is Hilton was fed enough information to put him close without revealing an actual recovery, or he was deliberately sent to Black Lake because t had been cleaned out. Either way Karl makes it clear Hilton didn't put in the work and wanted to be spoon fed a treasure location. In response, Hilton trashed the LUE story in one of the few examples where a published treasure story claims in no uncertain terms that a treasure is a hoax. I've collected hundreds of treasure magazines, I can't recall another instance of this happening even when it's a commonly held belief (that a story is a hoax).
And that is problem with whole story? There is only assertions there was a treasure to begin with? Yet there is no real facts to work from. Like falling down a rabbit hole coming up with one million and solutions, the results are only ever going to be the same. He who chases rainbows are doomed for failure.

Crow
 

Randy Bradford

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And that is problem with whole story? There is only assertions there was a treasure to begin with? Yet there is no real facts to work from. Like falling down a rabbit hole coming up with one million and solutions, the results are only ever going to be the same. He who chases rainbows are doomed for failure.

Crow
You won't get any arguments from me. Thing is, this story has a history, it's just called something else. I've long maintained that the Treasure Mountain story and the LUE were one in the same. Karl hinted as much himself.
It's interesting though too when you consider that even stories with pedigrees, witnesses, binders full of information and substantial historical source material still remain out of reach...Victorio Peak, the Beale Treasure, Lost Adams Diggings, Lost Dutchman, dozens - even hundreds of others. Seems like the myriad of rainbows all promise a pot of gold they're loathe to surrender.
 

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mdog

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Something else of interest is that the roof of the Bullion Depository at Fort Knox is a step pyramid.
 

mdog

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This map shows the T and the triangle inside the pyramid. The triangle at the top points to the spot where the Kensington Runestone is located. The top of the T is formed by the line going from Treasure Mountain to Montvale, Virginia (Beale Treasure) and the vertical line of the T is formed by the bottom half of the line that connects the Kensington Runestone and Center Point, Texas.
pyramid 2 T.jpg
 

mdog

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In one of his books, Scott Wolter wrote that in 1926 ten men initiated an effort to raise $300,000 to build a 204 foot obelisk that would house the Kensington Runestone. Eight of these ten men were Masons. Perhaps they knew that the site of the runestone was the tip of a huge pyramid. Maybe they also knew the base of that pyramid was created by the locations of St. Augustine, Florida and Center Point, Texas. The latitudes of those two places are almost exactly the same as the latitude of the great pyramids of Egypt at Giza. The locations of the Kensington Runestone and Center Point, Texas are almost dead center of the upper and lower United States.
 

Ryano

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Kudos to all for such interesting discussion !

This is his article on the Beale where he repeatedly references the same latitudinal coordinate.
Thanks for posting this. What an interesting essay. "National Treasure Hunter's League" ? Was that one of Latham's publications too ? Also - "National Treasure" Makes me wonder if a young Bob Brewer crossed paths with Hilton. Hmm..

Also, is this the same Tom Hilton who served in '70's-era New Mexico politics?

Lastly, any more thoughts on what the heck Karl was talking about in that Floyd Mann letter (shown in Terry's video) where he tells the man to place a Z.E.P.A. sign on his car to avoid getting hassled while (presumably) searching a LUE site ?
 

Randy Bradford

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Kudos to all for such interesting discussion !


Thanks for posting this. What an interesting essay. "National Treasure Hunter's League" ? Was that one of Latham's publications too ? Also - "National Treasure" Makes me wonder if a young Bob Brewer crossed paths with Hilton. Hmm..

Also, is this the same Tom Hilton who served in '70's-era New Mexico politics?

Lastly, any more thoughts on what the heck Karl was talking about in that Floyd Mann letter (shown in Terry's video) where he tells the man to place a Z.E.P.A. sign on his car to avoid getting hassled while (presumably) searching a LUE site ?
NTHL was published from 1969 to 1980, not quite sure who launched it but it was originally published out of Texas. It was originally published in newspaper format but quickly switched to paper-back magazine style and ultimately converted to a full, glossy, magazine style. It boasted a pretty impressive "who's who" of early treasure hunting personalities including:
Ernest M. Andrews
Charles Garrett
(Treasurenet's very own) Frederic F. Hollister
E.S. "Rocky" LeGaye

H.E. (Herb) Finger wrote a LOT, often times 4 or more articles in an issue. though I don't recognize his name from any books or other publications.
NTHL is honestly outstanding, but I'm not sure they ever had a large national reach and I'm willing to bet you never saw it on the newsstands. Issues come up on Ebay a lot scattered, but they're worth investing in if you want a glimpse at the height of treasure hunting in the U.S.

Pretty sure Tom Hilton is not the same one as the politician. He wrote a number of articles for the NTHL as well though.

As for ZEPA...if memory serves me, the letter writer mentioned that second hand, that's to say the letter wasn't from Karl directly. Interestingly, ZEPA does show up in Karl's Encyclopedia of Buried Treasure:
Zepa: A secret word formerly used in sealing unwritten agreements. Use was discontinued when a man in Beverly Hills (Calif.) welched on a deal & betrayed the participants in 1959 in order to gain possession of a huge treasure.
 

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