The MapDowsing Debate.

[Holyfield]

How many metal detectorist's believe in MapDowsing? Is there enough scientific evidence to back the MapDowsing theory? Is it FACT or FICTION? I just want to know what the rest of the populace believes in. So you (DETECTORIST'S) are the sound jury, and judge alike. Is it even possible??

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[Carl-NC]

It does seem to contradict most of what I know about science: that is, most scientific endeavors are advanced by observing repeatable results; which results can be obtained by different people using the same tools and the same body of knowledge.

If one could specifically outline the procedure, basic principles, and allow an inexperienced individual such as myself some basic direction to create repeatable data, this would do a lot to remediate the skepticism.

Therein lies the problem with dowsing. When tested using scientific methodology, it consistently fails. Ergo, if you wish to be a believer, then scientific testing is to be avoided, at all costs. You will consistently find this to be the rule, not the exception, amongst dowsers. I've heard that the ASD has even issued an edict forbidding members from engaging in such nonsense, though I don't know if that's true.

Nevertheless, dowsing can actually be useful, to some people. It's simply a way of pulling information from their subconscious, or deducing answers from observations. Ferinstance, I "dowsed" Dell's response, to indicate that his map dowsing did, indeed, result in the recovery of "all that was there". And tonight, I successfully dowsed for good food at the Chinese buffet.

- Carl

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[Carl-NC]

I don't think you will find a Scientific protocol that properly evaluates Dowsing...

Perhaps more accurately, you won't find a scientific protocol that validates dowsing. It is scientifically testable, just like everything else, but the results might not be to your liking.

...the protocols that are promoted on these forums for testing Dowsing, as well as LRLs are being evaluated on the irrevelancy of idiot logic...

Protocols can be developed by the dowser himself, and often are. The only criteria for a test protocol, is that it must actually test the claim being made, and it must (as much as possible) minimize other influences. That's why such tests are usually double-blind.

Except for SMI, did you consider Randi's test fair? If not, why not? What would you change? Did you score all 6 of your positive hits during the open phase of the test? Did you get any positive hits during the DB portion, or had SMI gotten too bad by then?

- Carl

 

[Thonolan]

Dell, You're kind of defensive, aren't you? Kind of hostile, too. It seems that you take offense with everyone who isn't 100% convinced that dowsing is legitimate. Lighten up a bit.

 

[Carl-NC]

I guess it's all irrevelannt. According to Randi, no such test was ever conducted, at any time or at any place on this earth, and he condemmed me to the inquiring public, without apology, as being a liar, a fraud and a scammer, and warned me of consequences if I continued.

What Randi saw, was someone he did not remember, saying that they had "passed" his dowsing test, which he knew was not true. He does now recall that the test took place, and even has a video tape of the event!

The fairness of the test protocol is very relevant, as that was a key question posed by one of the other forum denizens. If you feel Randi's test was flawed, then identifying those flaws, and suggesting improvements, would be more beneficial than simply complaining about it.

My own information dowsing of the test results, indicates that the 6 correct hits occurred in the open phase of the test, and that the DB portion was aborted due to SMI, with no successes. If that's the case, then saying you "passed" the test, would only be accurate in the sense that you strolled by. Sorta like, "I passed the Burrito Palace".

- Carl

 

[Carl-NC]

The producer supplied the video...

Who was the producer? Just curious. And, again, it's not a trick question.

- Carl

 

[Chiz]

I guess last nights storm here in Washington DC shed some new light into the map dowsing thing and basically solidified my thinking.

We were all under the awning of the office, watching the storm and the lightning, waiting for it to pass. I said, ?Looks like the lightning is going to hit those trees over there?. Not 5 seconds after I said it, lightning hit the trees, everyone just looked at me. Five minutes later, as they were asking me where it was going to hit again, I pointed my finger and said, ?Probably over there on the golf course?. As I was still pointing, lightning struck where I said, go figure. Two for two on predicting a lightning strike, never in a million years, the odds are astronomical.

Will I be able to do it again? NO
Was it luck? YES
My predicting percentage? 100%

You can believe what you want about map dowsing. I have never seen nor heard of the headlines ?Map Dowser Finds Treasure? anywhere that I looked. If there is, I would figure it amounts to about .001% of all the treasure found. There are millions of other people that found treasure others ways though, hmmmm?? Aside from an educated guess from a topo map, in my opinion, it is just a guess. I am good at guessing the locations of things, like I said before, using logical deduction, that is what I attribute map dowsing to.

Just think?.. If it works, why don?t we use it in the government? Finding ship wrecks? Finding all the lost treasures out there? There would not be any left if this were possible. In the words of Aerosmith , ?Dream on?.

Chiz
8)

 

[Carl-NC]

Darn good thing you didn't point your finger at the others, eh?

 

[srdraftcad]

Hi Dell

What is the diference between Dowsing and LRL thats works with electronic power, batteries, signal frequency? I have a LRL by Omnitron
and I don't use my "MENTAL POWER" to find something and in many occations I already have good results. In fact That it is all that I look for in My cache hunting...results!

Sam

 

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

Proof, proof, proof! Don't expect many to beleive in dowsing. If the world was still connected to their true spiritual self, they would see how many things are possible. Old timers in my area made a living from dowsing water from a plain stick, back when things were simpler. Intuition is like a musle that needs to be excercised. It's a process, but humans always fail as soon as doubts and fears arise. Science has helped us expand in the outer world, but our inner world remains undeveloped. We have abilities within our being that would blow science away. Logic is a great tool, but cannot explain everything. When understanding comes from the heart, then you will see how possble dowsing is. Need proof? look within!
There's more to treasure hunting than meets the eye! P.S. I always find more goodies when I am in a good state of mind. Dave.

 

[geodowser]

Proof, proof, proof! Don't expect many to beleive in dowsing. If the world was still connected to their true spiritual self, they would see how many things are possible. Old timers in my area made a living from dowsing water from a plain stick, back when things were simpler. Intuition is like a musle that needs to be excercised. It's a process, but humans always fail as soon as doubts and fears arise. Science has helped us expand in the outer world, but our inner world remains undeveloped. We have abilities within our being that would blow science away. Logic is a great tool, but cannot explain everything. When understanding comes from the heart, then you will see how possble dowsing is. Need proof? look within!
There's more to treasure hunting than meets the eye! P.S. I always find more goodies when I am in a good state of mind. ? ? ? ? ?Dave.

Hi Dave , All

I am taking the time to reply to this older thread as Daves reply and insight are worthy of replying to.
Daves take on this really hits the heart of the matter and I wanted to reinforce this.

I didnt plan on being a dowser 25 years ago . It is what my experience taught me as I was "open " to it.
I was just a regular guy banging nails for a living, and a dowser came by the jobsite to spot a well for
the owner . OK thats weird . Being curious I went home and _tried_ it and it changed my perspective of
life completely . Im going into all this because I care . I am also interested
in THing but not to get rich or anything , but as a way to explore our past, technologies we've lost due to
our complacency .

Ive read the threads over the years , here there and everywehere .... Im not out to prove anything to anyone
so I rarely respond , but Dave made some points I resonated with and here I am ready to be "attacked"

For those scientifically inclined , science is just beggining to accept quantum physics , wherein lies the answers
to how dowsing works. Stop for a minute and realize what a sophistocated , sensitive machine we humans are.
You just read and interpreted my digital fonts imprinted over a fiberoptic medium into your brain directly.
Can my Garret or my Minelabs do that ?
I could make the reverse point, why waste money on a machine that cant even read email or hookup to my
computer . I am already the most sophisticated frequency interpreter [sensory input] that with a pointer
can point over miles or on maps to any specific thing I set my parameters to . No it is not foolproof .

Im here as a common sense diplomat . I have to be .
I facilitate a group of 700 gifted people from around the planet . Everyone has an agenda .
Some of you have stopped by and I know by name. I also know it gets boring perhaps
because you can see most dowsers are not even interested in treasure. I wish I could say that lol .
Point is just because people have the capabilities to do things doesnt mean the go out and try
to find all the treasure on the planet . hence the fact that all the mysteries have not been solved,
and all the treasure not located does not mean that there isnt something to dowsing .
And it is >Intuition Carl, , but moreso in a technique to focus and differentiate, directionalize or _communicate_ with
our intuition [ which is actually a direct electromagnetic connection to the etheric grid ] other
wise known as [the] " common sense " aka the Living Field / Matrix / Quantum Physics

Some of the the advances made in Visionary Scientific Circles and Instituitions would blow your mind,
as Dave mentioned . In a sense what has been missing for those needing some type of scientific
proof or connection to warrant _trying_ or exploring or researching dowsing , is a computer
assisted electronic interface to our brainwaves / sensory input .

With devices like Computer Videio Games and Interactive devices and now MindDrive[Atari] we are very
close to having devices that the LRL's are trying to "mimic" for real . [ trying to be diplomatic here]
[ my take on LRL's are that they are visionary in what is "to be", in terms of being active, but in truth
they are what they are when analysed , dowsing rods or indicators ] But perhaps it is the price tag
and the glitz that conditions folks to actually try them as worth and realize they "work" since they
now have the right frame of mind to allow intuition to work . The know it will work ahead of time
be cause it hase to because its so expensive and looks so neat as opposed to a coat hanger.
How can anything so simple and cheap as a coat hanger be so sensitive and precise . It isnt !
WE ARE !

We havent done the reverse engineering yet . Because the mindset is that the world couldnt possibly
be round !

In any case one day I was from Missouri . You had to _SHOW ME_

Well im still in MO and Im telling ya , for what its worth..... its WORTH CHECKING OUT DOWSING .
Once I was my worst skeptic . No even worse , I didnt have a clue , or even know what dowsing
was to even be skeptical of . I simply went and tried it. Trial and Error . Taking the simple response
to its highest potential relationship with surveying ,th'ing,cartogrqphy,computers, geology,geophysics.

Is Dowsing the end all to end all ?

No . Its just training wheels for our "psychic" [ dont like that word] potential

One day I married a very gifted and humble nurse .
When you are married you really get a chance to know someone yes ?
i mention this because often our "proofs" and research and claimants are far away , out of our
immediate reach and experience, therefor our preexisting opinions carry more weight .

We are not as open to new thought and experience because it is not in our presence .
But what if , just what if your Grandfather, or Grandmother,Father,Mother, Child,Spouse expressed
or exposed a gift to you.... something you could not explain "rationally" . Then what ? This is the
experince of millions of people around the world.

What is the Status Quo ? You dont talk about it . Noone wants to be considered odd or different.
So we have women's intuion , gifted children with "attention deficit disorder" and we fix that with drugs ,
Psychic Hotlines , Randi and Uri Geller so we dont have to deal or reasearch human potential .


Am I Rich ? [ from dowsing treasure]

no


Do I care ? [about people understanding]

yes



simply,

geodowser

international dowsing research
http://www.dowsingworks.com
" dont expect miracles , you have to create them "

 

[Knipper]

Our club once had a dowser come and speak about the subject. He's a very likable fellow and has had some success...even helped his local sherrif recover some items (documented).

So, I became curious about this and built my own rod. Haviing a nice shop and materials at hand, I bulit my own dowsing rod....retractable antenna, brass bearings...the works.

In his talk, he mentioned one technique he uses when going metal detecting. He asks himself a silent question...which direction to go to find a silver/gold/valuable coin. He then let the dowsing rod stablize until it pointed in one direction and set out along that vector swinging his coil.

So, when out with some other club members (five others) at an old county park, I pulled out the rod I'd made and announced I was goiing to give it a try. The park was well hunted, but you could still pull out occasional silver.

I got a direction and started to hunt, not really caring if I proved or disproved anything. after walking in a straight line for about 20 feet, I got a faint signal, dug down and up came a Barber half. We all had a good time speculating about that one.

Some time later, BK and I were out hunting and I 'asked the rod' if there was silver between me and a tree about 60 yards away at a park in La Crosse Wis. My 'answer' was determined by the rod swinging right for yes and left for no (Another technique the dowser had shared with us). So I set off toward the tree. As I approached the tree, now about twenty feet away, I had already thought to myself, 'well it didn't work this time!". One more swing gave me a faint signal. BK was there looking over my shoulder. I dug a plug and got a Barber and Liberty Seated dime in the same hole.

So, do I take my rod with me all the time? Nope. Does dowsing work all the time? Nope. Do I have an open mind about it? Yep!!

It could be that I might have found the targets anyway each time. But the strange thing was, in both cases, I allowed the rod (or my subconscious) set the direction I went to find the coins in very large parks. Both could be coincidences...I don't know....but it was fun until I started thinking about it...then it got a bit eerie.

Knipper

 

[JBlack]

? Both could be coincidences...I don't know....but it was fun until I started thinking about it...then it got a bit eerie.

Knipper

At first it is a little eerie.... but when you stop and consider that the rod was merely an outward indicator of your own natural intuition ---then a lot of the hocus pocus and eerieness goes away. Have fun with it.

 

[extractor]

I believe