The Captain Kidd Treasure Maps and Oak Island

[Oak Island Sage]

There are far more differences than similarities between the Deadman Island map and Oak Island. Again, your confirmation bias is on display. Another forum member already pointed out the profound differences but you ignore them. To the east of the Deadman Island map is "Ye Mainland". How on earth do you explain this? Where is there a mainland or extensive coastline to the east of Oak Island?
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https://www.oakislandarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/geologymap.pdf

Hi Cryptid1990, Oak Island is approximately one mile long, using this for measurement open up your map wider, and about time eight times that length (eight miles) on the far east side of Mahone Bay lies Meisner Point, and the site of the Spanish Log store. It was added to the map just to indicate a source of much needed logs for the use in the covert Oak Island mine. I've been there and to Oak Island unlike you, in fact please correct if I'm wrong, but all you have ever done is read about Oak Island.

To reiterate many of the of the things that Captain William Kidd drew on his Deadman Island in 1699 were still there in 1960, and somethings are still there in plain sight today, you have no sensible answer to these obvious glaring facts
.
You seem desperate for people to doubt that Captain Kidd drew the Deadman Island map, now I wonder. could it be that it totally contradicts and undermines your own theory of what you are going to put in your forthcoming article, it's sort of bad for business.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Ollies works do confirm the notion Kidd signed any treasure map is hogwash.
Nothing like incriminating ones self. Let alone exposing a potential caches locale!
What evidence have we of the results of such under judicial duress? Ahh that's right. No more "treasure" after.

You've had plenty of facts presented disclaiming Kidd and a signed map. Not by any one person alone.
Which does make you outnumbered when you offer a signature authenticator and are suggesting a diversionary direction by arguing watermark on parchment. Instead of your alleged signature confirmations credibility. Perhaps why you keep accusing those who call your bluff as ganging up on you.
While offering conjecture as a substitute for any proof to the contrary regarding maps. (Again.)
Far more damning evidential facts than your conjecture has countered ; even in your fictional writing..

[There are other lines of evidence the Kidd-Palmer maps were not drawn or owned by Captain Kidd. In 1951, one of the maps was forensically examined by Wilson R. Harrison from the Home Office Forensic Science Laboratory, who concluded the map is a “comparatively recent production on what might very well be an old sheet of parchment”. A separate report by the Metropolitan Police Laboratory found modern pencil marks under ink of the words “China Sea”, and a compass rose on the map (both these reports can be accessed in a file at the National Archives). The latter is not surprising, when it is realised the compass rose on the Kidd-Palmer maps is highly unconventional and would not have appeared on an actual nautical chart. Rather, it has much more in common with compass roses on fictional maps.]

https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2026/07/the-kidd-palmer-maps-conclusively-proven-to-be-a-hoax-lifted-directly-from-fiction/

Hi releventchair, why don't all you guys in the flock just pool your resources and pay for a reputable professional hand writing expert to analyse the hand writing on the Deadman Island map, and then you will know for certain if Captain William Kidd was the author or not.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi releventchair, why don't all you guys in the flock just pool your resources and pay for a reputable professional hand writing expert to analyse the hand writing on the Deadman Island map, and then you will know for certain if Captain William Kidd was the author or not.

Oak Island Sage

You have already made it clear you are never going to change your mind despite having been disproven - if someone paid a handwriting expert to examine the map and make a report - you would dismiss or ignore it - like you ignored the watermark on the parchment map.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi Cryptid1990, Oak Island is approximately one mile long, using this for measurement open up your map wider, and about time eight times that length (eight miles) on the far east side of Mahone Bay lies Meisner Point, and the site of the Spanish Log store. It was added to the map just to indicate a source of much needed logs for the use in the covert Oak Island mine.

I've been there and to Oak Island unlike you, in fact please correct if I'm wrong, but all you have ever done is read about Oak Island.

The Deadman's Island (DI) map depicts a nearby coastline to the east and two small islands (northeast and southeast). It obviously is not Oak Island. Considering the profound differences between DI and Oak Island, not even Edward Rowe Snow (who bought the parchment map the DI map was based on) identified Deadman's Island with Oak Island. The shape of DI and Oak Island (see below) is not even a close match but you ignore this. There is already a thread refuting your claims. I stated in that thread I was no longer interested in replying there since you ignore contradictory evidence. Seeming as you are doing the same here, I am not wasting my time replying about the DI map. 🔚

 

[Oak Island Sage]

8. A south-view profile of the island that looks nothing at all like Oak Island, including what I will now formally name "Swamp Mountain."

Hi Carl-NC, if you are basing your argument on what was is drawn on the Dead Man Island map as the south- view profile you really have to get you facts right first. In that profile description there is no mention of the word mountain there or even on the map itself, The swamp is located 500 feet on the other north side of the central area, nowhere near what you wish to describe as - a mountain.
What Captain Kidd was trying to depict was a 300 ft long 10 ft high tall ridge of earth that runs the length of the excavated Triangular pond that had trees on it, it is/was the highest ground in the central area. That pond is also drawn on the map and is now mostly destroyed by searchers.

The appearance of the man made bank of earth with tall pine trees on it from a passing ship would have looked like natural high ground in 1699. Some tall pine trees had lookout platforms like a ships crows nest on them.

Oak Island Sage

 

[CapnGeorge]

Well to be honest I don't mind "peer review" or academic degrees. I do not value an argument because of its labels. I do respect logic and this is what I see missing in his arguments and most of all the answers to your criticism of them.

I think there are many that have become disillusioned with the academic system and those often fall for someone taking advantage of that situation to misled them into another idiotic path. The treasure hunting community has many who simply seek myths away from the modern world and that is not a bad thing per se. Unfortunately I think your arguments will have the contrary effect on many of them even if I think they are still valid. For that I think it is best to leave it as it stands and continue with the exceptional research you are doing.

Of course there was no mention of Anson and a treasure buried on Pinaki, because it was a SECRET expedition. Some people just haven't got a clue!

 

[releventchair]

Hi releventchair, why don't all you guys in the flock just pool your resources and pay for a reputable professional hand writing expert to analyse the hand writing on the Deadman Island map, and then you will know for certain if Captain William Kidd was the author or not.

Oak Island Sage

Let's see .
A: there's no flock save in your vivid imagination.
And B : how many ways can a casual interest in forgery reproduce a signature? Let alone merely initials or a cartouche.
Who hired the authority that determined pencil (Lead? Carbon?Graphite?) traces were involved?
Was watermarked material chosen for it's ability to trace? Or were we amusing ourselves with onion skins again?
By 1803 Hawkins had mechanical means of duplication down to an art.( No not Jim Hawkins. Rather John Isaac.) When were the maps you tout "rediscovered"? Ahh 1929-34. The era of robot pin & attendant "signature mold" /grooved plate method. (Who created that and when precisely? Let's hope no forgeries were involved.)
Coincidence of maps being found when mechanical means of copying were becoming more practiced? Or just timely furniture acquisitions?
Hired furniture curators, authenticators, alleged historians and handwriting analysts must have had many field days.
Allow me to make haste and hire a signature authority to tell me if an accurate copy on watermarked parchment is real or not.... That will clear up the intended collaboration of the nefarious ambitions of Kidd/Palmer &Co. Inc. L.L.C. nonprofit stolon precious metals refinery fencing operations on any island being true. Let alone on Oak island maps that aren't really Oak Island ; but they still could have collaborated because no one has proven they didn't so it must be so.


Then there is C: Any pirate captain foolish enough to sign off on a document regarding a secret trove or mint of fencing operations isn't much a pirate. It is worth a wager that any who did didn't feel a deck afoot again ever after. At least per evidence.
That would be like bank robbers promoting upcoming events on the tattler rags/gossip papers front page.

 

[releventchair]

Sigh.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

The Deadman's Island (DI) map depicts a nearby coastline to the east and two small islands (northeast and southeast). It obviously is not Oak Island. Considering the profound differences between DI and Oak Island, not even Edward Rowe Snow (who bought the parchment map the DI map was based on) identified Deadman's Island with Oak Island. The shape of DI and Oak Island (see below) is not even a close match but you ignore this. There is already a thread refuting your claims. I stated in that thread I was no longer interested in replying there since you ignore contradictory evidence. Seeming as you are doing the same here, I am not wasting my time replying about the DI map. 🔚

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[Carl-NC]

In that profile description there is no mention of the word mountain there or even on the map itself,

I use the word "mountain" tongue-in-cheek -- on the map it's called Lookout Hill and is clearly drawn with a double peak, both in the bird's eye view and in the profile. There is no such feature on Oak Island. You can pretend there once was, but that's just pretend.

The swamp is located 500 feet on the other north side side of the central area, nowhere near what you wish to describe as - a mountain.

Here's where the swamp is:

So you're telling me the swamp is not where it is clearly located? On the south shore? And that the Hill is not located in the swamp?

No one in their right mind would look at this map and say, "Hey, that looks like Oak Island!" There are nearly zero features that match -- both with the island itself and with the surrounding features -- and you've had to do a whole lotta hand-waving and just making things up to argue that there are.

 

[Bocaj]

Of course there was no mention of Anson and a treasure buried on Pinaki, because it was a SECRET expedition. Some people just haven't got a clue!

That's the beauty about secrets as it is so pointy expressed in "Our Man in Havana": 'If it is a secret only you know it" - you can invent really anything who could deny it? If it comes with some supposed credibility it becomes a value to sell as the holder of it gets that feeling of being 'special'. In a society of empty lives suddenly you are elevated to Olympic realms. Endless Hitchcock movies build on exactly this idea.

Your secrets and decoding could make a good story. Treasures, pirates, secret expeditions that is what people want to see (next 'Pirates of the Caribbean' maybe?). Not saying that the real world is boring, when it comes to that I found reality always tops fiction. Much of what is happening in the world is decided behind closed doors. Yes secrets are real and there are many. If you want to give credibility to yours you need to give some logic behind them or else they only attract the gullible.

Or simply declare your ideas fiction and publish them as such. Quite a good part of fiction is done from those who couldn't or wouldn't reason their theories. Nothing wrong with that!

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Hi Cryptid 1990, your own map shows Meisner Point across Mahone Bay to the east of Oak Island, precisely where I said it was. You cut off the top of the map that also shows the coast line rises right up to the three estuaries also depicted on Captain Kidd's Deadman Island Map.
I have no interest in watermarks or the opinions of the other people that you like to quote, I know that I am right and that you are wrong. You post parts of other peoples books and theories, you insist that your conclusions must be right because you say so, it's like the classic Paul Hawkins self opiniated style, so far contrary to your many assertions like Paul you have proved --- precisely nothing.🥱

On reflection you have proved one thing to me personally which I am absolutely certain of, you are so far behind me Ollie I'd need a telescope to see you. I do understand completely why you express a great reluctance to talk about the Deadman Island map, it constitutes a massive fly in your soup right. 😈
You all have a nice day.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Bocaj]

Is it Groundhog Day again?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I use the word "mountain" tongue-in-cheek -- on the map it's called Lookout Hill and is clearly drawn with a double peak, both in the bird's eye view and in the profile. There is no such feature on Oak Island. You can pretend there once was, but that's just pretend.
View attachment 2259687
View attachment 2259696

Here's where the swamp is:
View attachment 2259693
So you're telling me the swamp is not where it is clearly located? On the south shore? And that the Hill is not located in the swamp?
View attachment 2259695
No one in their right mind would look at this map and say, "Hey, that looks like Oak Island!" There are nearly zero features that match -- both with the island itself and with the surrounding features -- and you've had to do a whole lotta hand-waving and just making things up to argue that there are.

Hi Carl-NC, You seem to be getting the impression that the triangular pond (reservoir) constitutes "the swamp" it doesn't, the area of the manmade swamp is located much further north in an area that Kidd called Wetlands, and that's nearer to the Joudary Cove Bay where the Anchor is drawn. That base of that anchorage jetty is still visible today as a row of large boulders, if you look at really old aerial pictures of Oak Island you will spot it.
I think you expect too much from the writer of the treasure map, he is sat drawing this map from memory and he never had the benefit of a birds eye view, and the island may well have looked a lot different in 1699 But hey if you don't buy any of that then sorry but I can't help you.

Oak Island Sage

 

[CapnGeorge]

That's the beauty about secrets as it is so pointy expressed in "Our Man in Havana": 'If it is a secret only you know it" - you can invent really anything who could deny it? If it comes with some supposed credibility it becomes a value to sell as the holder of it gets that feeling of being 'special'. In a society of empty lives suddenly you are elevated to Olympic realms. Endless Hitchcock movies build on exactly this idea.

Your secrets and decoding could make a good story. Treasures, pirates, secret expeditions that is what people want to see (next 'Pirates of the Caribbean' maybe?). Not saying that the real world is boring, when it comes to that I found reality always tops fiction. Much of what is happening in the world is decided behind closed doors. Yes secrets are real and there are many. If you want to give credibility to yours you need to give some logic behind them or else they only attract the gullible.

Or simply declare your ideas fiction and publish them as such. Quite a good part of fiction is done from those who couldn't or wouldn't reason their theories. Nothing wrong with that!

All the sensible/meaningful logic is in the book, perhaps you can't see it/don't get it? Don't worry, you're not on your own!

 

[Cryptid1990]

That's the beauty about secrets as it is so pointy expressed in "Our Man in Havana": 'If it is a secret only you know it" - you can invent really anything who could deny it? If it comes with some supposed credibility it becomes a value to sell as the holder of it gets that feeling of being 'special'. In a society of empty lives suddenly you are elevated to Olympic realms. Endless Hitchcock movies build on exactly this idea.

Your secrets and decoding could make a good story. Treasures, pirates, secret expeditions that is what people want to see (next 'Pirates of the Caribbean' maybe?). Not saying that the real world is boring, when it comes to that I found reality always tops fiction. Much of what is happening in the world is decided behind closed doors. Yes secrets are real and there are many. If you want to give credibility to yours you need to give some logic behind them or else they only attract the gullible.

Or simply declare your ideas fiction and publish them as such. Quite a good part of fiction is done from those who couldn't or wouldn't reason their theories. Nothing wrong with that!

As the saying goes, 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.

 

[Carl-NC]

Hi Carl-NC, You seem to be getting the impression that the triangular pond (reservoir) constitutes "the swamp" it doesn't, the area of the manmade swamp is located much further north in an area that Kidd called Wetlands, and that's nearer to the Joudary Cove Bay where the Anchor is drawn. That base of that anchorage jetty is still visible today as a row of large boulders, if you look at really old aerial pictures of Oak Island you will spot it.

My mistake, I guess there really is a mountain in the middle of the triangle swamp. Having never been to Oak Island like you, I suppose it's easy to miss. And a pond to the north of the mountain, with a river running all the way to the north shore. All in the space of 300 meters. Amazing.

When the crew of COOI discover Swamp Mountain, they're gonna be mighty red-faced that they missed it all these years. Expect a call immediately afterwards.

 

[Crow]

As the saying goes, 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.

Its fools errand trying to convince self-deluded egocentrics with real facts because their ideas have become a self-deluded religious epiphany for them, and no logic will convince them otherwise. While there is no shame in having a theory, not having the ability to self-correct a theory when faced with undeniable facts is just an egotistic and narcissistic personality trait at play. They will go to the grave convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong. And the travesty of all of this is that they are oblivious of it all and will argue over facts, going around in circles, or claim everyone is picking on them. Twisting anything out of context if it contradicts their claims. Anything other than facing the fact that their theory is incorrect.

Treasure legends have a long history of egocentrics coming and going, ending up as a train wreck, losing credibility they desperately desire.

Crow

 

[Oak Island Sage]

My mistake, I guess there really is a mountain in the middle of the triangle swamp. Having never been to Oak Island like you, I suppose it's easy to miss. And a pond to the north of the mountain, with a river running all the way to the north shore. All in the space of 300 meters. Amazing.

When the crew of COOI discover Swamp Mountain, they're gonna be mighty red-faced that they missed it all these years. Expect a call immediately afterwards.

Hi Carl-NC, was this another of your futile attempts at humour or merely a petulant display of sarcasm to impress your buddies? Ask someone to explain this old saying.
There are none so blind as those that will not see"

Oak Island Sage

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Its fools errand trying to convince self-deluded egocentrics with real facts because their ideas have become a self-deluded religious epiphany for them, and no logic will convince them otherwise. While there is no shame in having a theory, not having the ability to self-correct a theory when faced with undeniable facts is just an egotistic and narcissistic personality trait at play. They will go to the grave convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong. And the travesty of all of this is that they are oblivious of it all and will argue over facts, going around in circles, or claim everyone is picking on them. Twisting anything out of context if it contradicts their claims. Anything other than facing the fact that their theory is incorrect.

Treasure legends have a long history of egocentrics coming and going, ending up as a train wreck, losing credibility they desperately desire.

Crow

Hi Crow, one should never judge other people by themselves.

Oak Island Sage.