To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

rgecy

Bronze Member
Jun 14, 2004
1,910
59
Beaufort, SC
Detector(s) used
Garrett Sea Hunter Mk II
Dear Fellow Treasure Hunters,

Even if you do not have any interest in Shipwreck Salvage or the Shipwreck forum, WE NEED YOUR HELP!

Our legal rights for Shipwreck Salvage within State waters are at risk!

WE NEED YOUR HELP to show our opposition to the proposed changes to the State of Florida's Rule 1A-31. We are asking everyone, even if you do not live in Florida, to please take a few minutes of your time and send a comment to the State of Florida showing you are against the proposed changes in rule 1A-31 and that you support responsible commercial salvage of historic shipwrecks within Florida's State waters.

We only have until October 17th so please act soon and get everyone you know to send a comment!

Please go the to the following link : https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/View_notice.asp?id=6172515

Scroll down and check Send One Time Comment to the Agency and then click the Make Comment button. Post your own comments or copy and paste comments from below.

There are over 20,000 members here at TNet. If we all come together we can stop this legislation. I am not asking for money, just 1 minute of your time. Please copy the comments below (or create your own) and follow the link above. It takes only a few clicks to show your support.

Thank You!

Robert Gecy




1. We are against any rules or regulations that would hinder Florida's responsible historical shipwreck salvors from their continued recovery of treasures and artifacts, such as the current proposed rules.

2. Under the Revised and Published Rule 1A-31.0092 (3) c, d, e it declares that permit areas shall have a "Buffer Zone" of 500 yards width from: navigation channels, exempted areas as defined in this chapter and excluded areas as defined in this chapter. These areas are defined in 1A-31.0042 and 1A-31.0045. This means no one will get a permit within 500 yards of a public recreation area (i.e. public beach) which translates to about one fourth of a mile from any Florida shoreline. The entire coastline of Florida is off limits for 1500 feet. This is not fair because history shows us that the majority of shipwrecks were blown toward or onto shore by hurricanes. The vast majority of shipwrecks on Florida's submerged lands are probably included within this area. It also means no one (without a grandfathered in Admiralty Claim) will get a permit within 500 yards of any inland waters, inlets, National Park systems, National Marine Sanctuaries such as the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary), State Parks, Local public recreation areas, resource conservation areas and resource management areas, areas conveyed to public or private entities............. etc.

3. We believe the Division of Historical Resources should do more to work with the private sector salvors of Florida and encourage salvors to come into a fair, even handed and just permit process. Rule 1A-31 does not seek to do this.

4. We believe Florida's private sector salvors have done an excellent job of recovering and preserving our maritime heritage, to the direct benefit of the public and at little cost to the taxpayers and should be allowed to continue with as little interference as possible. Rule 1A-31 does not do this.

5. We do not want our tax dollars used by state archaeologists to dive on shipwrecks. The private sector salvors have done a great job, using their own money, with Florida getting the benefits by receiving 20% of the conserved artifacts and treasures recovered. We do not support any changes to rule 1A-31 that would make it harder for the salvors to continue.

6. We feel the new rule is unfair because it treats commercial salvors as second class citizens due to the fact that it does not give the same standards to commercial salvors as Rule 1A-32 gives to universities and nonprofit organizations. For example, the turnover or response time to get permits for 1A-32 is two weeks while commercial groups have waited months and in some cases, years. Also 1A-32 uses students as excavators while commercial enterprises must use experts.

7. We think Rule 1A-31 is unfair because university and nonprofit 1A‐32 permit holders get a search & survey, recovery & salvage permit ALL in their first permit while 1A-31 requires commercial salvors to obtain only search & survey permits with rules that vary from salvor to salvor. NO recovery & salvage permits (unless already grandfathered in by Federal Admiralty Claims) have been issued to commercial groups in Florida for over 15 years.

8. We are opposed to the rule because individuals who have current contracts for exploration have not all been individually notified of the workshops and hearings. It is also unfair that when they are notified, the locations of such meetings repeatedly take place at locations remote to the majority of the private and commercial entities that it will affect. Therefore, if a few dozen commercial groups from the Keys want to attend, they need to drive either 9 hours to St. Augustine area or 12 hours to the Tallahassee area (and back.) This means they have to miss THREE days work to attend.Two days driving and one day at the meetings. Future meetings should be held in a central location of the state such as the Orlando area to accommodate the majority of thestakeholders. Additionally, these meetings should not be held between June 1 and Sept 30th of any year, as that is the 120 day window for good weather conditions on the majority of the archaeological sites worked by commercial salvors in Florida.

9. We are opposed to the rule because it insists that an archaeologist be on board each salvage vessel during each and every survey and excavation. This is unnecessary because most electronic surveys are non‐intrusive and the majority of actual excavation areas are empty or turn out to be modern intrusions such as lawn chairs, discarded shrimp or lobster traps, beer cans and in some cases, U.S. military bombs in old target practice areas. Of course when major conglomerates of shipwreck material or structure are found, it would then be appropriate for the archaeologist to be on board to supervise the proper mapping and recording of these areas The reality is that the majority of the archaeologist's time is spent working with a cartographer, mapping and analyzing data collected during remote sensing surveys and identifying patterns from other known sites in an effort to decide which anomalies to excavate first, and writing reports after poring through the reams of data provide by the artifact recovery process. His presence on the site is not necessary until significant cultural deposits or structures are encountered.

10. The new rule should address some sort of Annual Adjudication of Title from the State to the permit holder rather than "Transfer of objects" in exchange for recovery services. This way, the state can receive donations of artifacts, because it is usually impossible to put an actual dollar value on each and every artifact found and this would create much confusion in tax law since the transfer of object has an indeterminable value.

11. This rule creates more work and overhead for DHR to manage their resources. Permits should be issued for a minimum of three years, much like the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, thereby alleviating costs to the DHR by reducing paperwork.

12. We feel this rule is unfair because commercial salvors are constantly in the research and development stages of using new technology for survey, excavation and conservation much of which is proprietary information. This rule eliminates many future possibilities and opportunities for research, development and testing of these new technologies.

13. We feel this rule is unfair because it requires the permit holder to turn over thousands of dollars worth of proprietary surveyresults without any guarantee that they will be allowed to salvage a site once it is found. There is no incentive for the permit holder to obtain a survey & exploration permit. An alternative would be to use wording similar to that in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which does not even require a "Survey & Exploration" permit at all and yet it seems to have been beneficial.
 

ivan salis

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2007
16,794
3,809
callahan,fl
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

you are very right these rules are very poorly crafted, purposefully very vague (so as to be easily twisted to "read" the way they want them to be read as it suits them ) and the rules are deeply biased against treasure hunters / salvors vs university type projects --basically university's get their permits in no time and can use totally "untrained" students to recover things and as work force -- however salvors must have "totally certified professional" folks for every job no matter how "basic" it is.( thus having to use highly paid "over qualified folks" for the simplist of task. ) -- these rules if put forward in their present form -- are the death knell for shallow water wreck hunting in florida in as we know it --in my veiw
 

old man

Bronze Member
Aug 12, 2003
1,773
1,709
East Coast
Robert, Thanks for posting the Link. I think everyone that has a love of being on or under the water should take a minute to oppose Rule 1A-31.
 

ToyMan

Jr. Member
Jul 25, 2005
69
12
I sent the following:

I am opposed to this rule change. However, I do support RESPONSIBLE Historic Shipwreck salvage.

I am a Florida residence and not some foreign individual who should not be allowed to comment on Florida issues.

I pay my taxes to support Florida government. These foreigners pay NOTHING and should not have any input in this matter.
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
18
Robert,

I don't live in Florida but I am going to send them my twopenneth. Good luck.

Mariner
 

Nov 8, 2004
14,582
11,941
Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Good Morni g ROY: You posted -->

"I am a Florida residence and not some foreign individual who should not be allowed to comment on Florida issues"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the contrary Toy, if he is a responsible salvage operator or a treasure hunting person, it "is" important. It is also important that you back him up in his area, no matter where..

Remember, if a destructive, or extremely restrictive law can be passed in one country, state or whatever, the others always soon follow and you will quickly find that your treasure hunting or coin hunting activities will soon be history.

There will soon be no need for a site such as this.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

ivan salis

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2007
16,794
3,809
callahan,fl
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
toyman means this I do believe ---- during this "rules" comment period --folks from outside of the the USA* --mostly foreign archies AND OTHERS who are most likely buddies and pals of certain FOLKS WHO WANT THESE "RULES" TO PASS TO ALLOW THEMSELVES TO CONTROL THINGS AS "THEY" WISH *(thus shutting down salvors) these "outsiders" MAINLY AUSSIES but other foreigners as well { non florida or US taxpaying folks are being "allowed" to have a say about what occurs in OUR state waters VIA INPUT ON OUR POLICY} * they HAVE carpet bombed their veiws in a attempt to fix the numbers so the florida state archies can claim they have the "numbers" to support their changing the "rules" (in simple terms--- they were trying to quietly put in the "fix" to do as they wished by having their "buddies" flood via e mails the ballot box and thus be able to say see the "public" supports these "changes" we want to do -- its a total BS-- power grab--) LUCKILY WE CAUGHT ON IN TIME---by the way the foreigners E MAIL "COMMENTS" ARE BEING GIVEN "EQUAL WIEGHT" TO THAT OF US PEOPlE WHO E MAIL AND EVEN THOSE WHO GO IN PERSON * TO THE MEETING --- this is blantant "foreign interferance" in our domestic matters --whats next? are we going to let them "vote" in our state elections as well? --- WE MUST "PUSH BACK" AND BALANCE THE SCALES "E MAIL WIZE" AND SHOW THAT IT IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE "PUBLIC" THAT MATTERS "WE THE PEOPLE --FLORIDA & USA TAXPAYERS"--- AND POINT OUT THE FACT THAT OUTSIDE OF THE USA FOLKS SHOULD HAVE "NO SAY SO" IN REGARDS TO "OUR" MATTERS ---

read the "comments" posted on line at the state of floridas website -- note for yourself the LARGE AMOUNT of FOREIGN PERSONS attempting to sway "our" policies with their input ( SINCE THEY CAN NOT DO IT IN THEIR COUNTRY --THEY DO NOT WANT US TO IT HERE EITHER )* I'm asking YOU THIS are you ok with non florida --non american -- non taxpayers telling us what we can or can do here in FLORIDA / THE USA by causing changes in OUR STATE OR FEDERAL POLICIES?? --- because frankly I'M NOT. --- IVAN
 

bucketofguts

Sr. Member
Jul 2, 2007
324
1
N.C.
Detector(s) used
Minelab Sovereign GT and Garrett Seahunter mark 2. Treasure Mate pinpointerer
i added my name and comment! :protest: :whip2:
 

Amona

Sr. Member
Apr 11, 2005
383
9
Sardinera, Mona Island
Detector(s) used
GTI2500,Seahunter Mark II, Eagle eye two box
I lived in West Palm Beach and Orlando and that's why I was very disappointed with Florida State regarding metal detecting rules.That happen when in a state or country increase every year the quantity of Treasure hunter excavating for treasures in land and sea.Florida is the "Mecca" of treasure hunters.

Amona
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY

Bronze Member
Jul 27, 2008
1,107
47
BRISBANE
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Ivan where to you get your informantion ? that the Aussie,s are not supporting you guys ???
You should be pointing the finger at Odyssey, they have stirred the bee hive by stealing what
does not belong to them, and I sure behind the scenes they have stirred the English as well by
sniffing around in the English channel.
Ossy
 

Darren in NC

Silver Member
Apr 1, 2004
2,780
1,575
Detector(s) used
Tesoro Sand Shark, Homebuilt pulse loop
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
ToyMan said:
I pay my taxes to support Florida government. These foreigners pay NOTHING and should not have any input in this matter.

Yeah, probably oughta ask all those "foreigners" to take their tourist trade elsewhere and see how much tax loss Florida would incur. The nerve of them taking an interest!
 

Sapper23

Full Member
Aug 22, 2007
164
3
FL
Detector(s) used
Explor II, seamk
Everyone,


This is the time to really speak out for your RIGHTS for Treasure Recovery!!!!. each year those
State screwball's make up there Own law's as they go, to work in there favor: Like OUTSIDE over the Alt. pond
Email's Vote's So everyone start speaking out !
Back in the day's DNR, GFC, FMP had No issue's anyone Detecting , infact the old day's,
they would ask you to volunteer your time " BY Detecting" to help clean up the Beach's, River's, Salt run's,
Anywhere!!!: Just to Keep the TRASH out of the ground!!, You Kept everything you found,
" accept! Native American item's " of course! Now. each year goes by, your Rights for Treasure Recovery,
and Beach Detecting are being buried.
Like Ivan said:
this is blantant "foreign interferance" in our domestic matters --whats next? are we going to let them "vote" in our state elections as well? --- WE MUST "PUSH BACK" AND BALANCE THE SCALES "E MAIL WIZE" AND SHOW THAT IT IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE "PUBLIC" THAT MATTERS "WE THE PEOPLE --FLORIDA & USA TAXPAYERS"--- AND POINT OUT THE FACT THAT OUTSIDE OF THE USA

Sapper
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY

Bronze Member
Jul 27, 2008
1,107
47
BRISBANE
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Darren in NC said:
ToyMan said:
I pay my taxes to support Florida government. These foreigners pay NOTHING and should not have any input in this matter.

Yeah, probably ought ask all those "foreigners" to take their tourist trade elsewhere and see how much tax loss Florida would incur. The nerve of them taking an interest!
Darren spot on mate :icon_sunny: If it wasn't for us foreigners buying coins and visiting Florida what would your Spanish treasure's
be worth ? I have purchased coins from the Fisher"s and other jewelry from them, and all of this go's into your Economy.
I hope that a good compromise is met so it's workable for all !
In Australia you have thirty days to report a shipwreck of any historical significance or you go to jail ! they keep 100%
Ossy
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top