Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

[coinshooterpa]

Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

I have been coin roll hunting for over three years now and have never posted to this forum....until now. I was trying to figure approximately how many dollars I've gone through and my best guess is about $600,000. I think I can count on two hands how many weeks I have got skunked. I know I have got 2 Barbers, hundreds of Walkers and Bens, and thousands of Kennedys. Heck I probably have a whole roll of 1970 40%. I feel very fortunate. But one coin has always eluded me, until now. A Seated half. As I opened the 5th box I noticed a real dark coin on top of one of the rolls. I first thought oh great another foreign coin...but wait, it's an eagle! And not an eagle that I recognize. After doing the happy dance around the room for about 5 minutes, I crack it open....1877......well, I guess now I'm shooting for a Bust half. The totals for the day were:
65 -40%
9 - 64 Kennedy's
2 - Ben's
2 - Walker's
1877 Seated Half

Thanks for looking!!

 

[rileyboy]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

Beautiful coin. You are very lucky to get that one. The condition is awesome as well.
Don't have anyone clean it. Leave it as is.
Congrats,
Rileyboy

 

[packerbacker]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

The guy found a seated ender!! That's right....an ENDER!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

Congrats! You did very well.

What's the weight of that seat half?

It comes in at 11.5 grams. The red book says it should weigh 13.36 grams?? What does this mean?

 

[sitman]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

An 1877 half dollar should weigh 12.50 grams. Seated halves weighed 13.36 grams when they were first issued in 1839, but there were two weight changes: one in 1853 and the second in 1873. The weight of 12.50 grams was used through 1964.

That being said, your half dollar should not be underweight by a full gram. According to the ANA's book "Counterfeit Detection", the tolerance is 0.097 gram. Is your scale accurate? Trying weighing a nice condition Walker, Franklin, or 1964 Kennedy.

I have had problems with counterfeit seated dollars. They typically were close to the right weight, but were off in density because they were not made of silver. A density or specific gravity measurement will tell the real story. Also compare the diameter and thickness to a comparably worn Walker, Franklin, or 1964 Kennedy. Do you have access to accurate laboratory equipment?

Don't take any of this the wrong way. I'm not saying that your coin is counterfeit. I'm just saying that you need to perform some more tests.

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

An 1877 half dollar should weigh 12.50 grams. Seated halves weighed 13.36 grams when they were first issued in 1839, but there were two weight changes: one in 1853 and the second in 1873. The weight of 12.50 grams was used through 1964.

That being said, your half dollar should not be underweight by a full gram. According to the ANA's book "Counterfeit Detection", the tolerance is 0.097 gram. Is your scale accurate? Trying weighing a nice condition Walker, Franklin, or 1964 Kennedy.

I have had problems with counterfeit seated dollars. They typically were close to the right weight, but were off in density because they were not made of silver. A density or specific gravity measurement will tell the real story. Also compare the diameter and thickness to a comparably worn Walker, Franklin, or 1964 Kennedy. Do you have access to accurate laboratory equipment?

Don't take any of this the wrong way. I'm not saying that your coin is counterfeit. I'm just saying that you need to perform some more tests.

I weighed a 1964 Kennedy and it came out to 12.34 grams

 

[sitman]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

OK. It looks like your scale is accurate as the weight of your 1964 Kennedy is what I would expect given a little wear. Do an eyeball comparison of the diameter by putting the 1877 on top of the 1964. Then place the two coins side by side and eyeball the thickness. Do the diameters and thicknesses look about the same?

In looking at your photographs, there appears to be a raised dot on the reverse above "HALF DOL." Is this true?

 

[DigginThePast]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

Ooo.....Counterfeit Seated Half? Hmmm. Very cool, might have to vote Banner on that.

What is the diameter of the coin? Should be 30.6 mm, looks noticeably smaller than other halfs on the picture. Is it actually smaller?

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

OK. It looks like your scale is accurate as the weight of your 1964 Kennedy is what I would expect given a little wear. Do an eyeball comparison of the diameter by putting the 1877 on top of the 1964. Then place the two coins side by side and eyeball the thickness. Do the diameters and thicknesses look about the same?

In looking at your photographs, there appears to be a raised dot on the reverse above "HALF DOL." Is this true?

Funny you should mention that dot....I tryed to pick it off as soon as I was done doing the Happy Dance.....I am assuming the "dot" means something.....

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

Ooo.....Counterfeit Seated Half? Hmmm. Very cool, might have to vote Banner on that.

What is the diameter of the coin? Should be 30.6 mm, looks noticeably smaller than other halfs on the picture. Is it actually smaller?

OK... I put it against a walker standing up on a table...I could not see a difference in the height, which I'm assuming you mean diameter...As far as thickness it might be ever so slightly thinner....but obviously if it is 1 gram lighter than what it should be, something must be up.....Now I'm starting to get bummed out if it's not a real seated..

 

[DigginThePast]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

Ooo.....Counterfeit Seated Half? Hmmm. Very cool, might have to vote Banner on that.

What is the diameter of the coin? Should be 30.6 mm, looks noticeably smaller than other halfs on the picture. Is it actually smaller?

OK... I put it against a walker standing up on a table...I could not see a difference in the height, which I'm assuming you mean diameter...As far as thickness it might be ever so slightly thinner....but obviously if it is 1 gram lighter than what it should be, something must be up.....Now I'm starting to get bummed out if it's not a real seated..

That is what I meant by diameter.

I think it may very well be a cast counterfeit, that would explain the "dot". If that is what it turns out to be I wouldn't be bummed out. I would truly rather find a counterfeit in this case, just seems to have a higher cool factor to me being far less common.

Does it stick to a magnet?

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves *Update-Maybe Counterfeit?

Ooo.....Counterfeit Seated Half? Hmmm. Very cool, might have to vote Banner on that.

What is the diameter of the coin? Should be 30.6 mm, looks noticeably smaller than other halfs on the picture. Is it actually smaller?

OK... I put it against a walker standing up on a table...I could not see a difference in the height, which I'm assuming you mean diameter...As far as thickness it might be ever so slightly thinner....but obviously if it is 1 gram lighter than what it should be, something must be up.....Now I'm starting to get bummed out if it's not a real seated..

That is what I meant by diameter.

I think it may very well be a cast counterfeit, that would explain the "dot". If that is what it turns out to be I wouldn't be bummed out. I would truly rather find a counterfeit in this case, just seems to have a higher cool factor to me being far less common.

Does it stick to a magnet?

Nope... A magnet does not stick to it..

 

[sitman]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

The raised dot is highly suspicious. Since the weight is about 8% less than it should be and the diameter appears to be about the same, the 1877 half should be noticeably thinner (about 8%). One more easy test you could perform is to see if it has the same silver sound as a Walker, Franklin, or 1964 Kennedy when dropped from a small distance onto a countertop or table. If you have access to laboratory equipment or know someone who does, a specific gravity or density test would be in order, followed by spectral analysis. The counterfeit seated dollars I have encountered were made from a nickel alloy which was noticeably less dense than the 90% silver, 10% copper alloy that used to be used in our silver coins.

 

[Syrys]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

The dot is strange... Is that another dot between the 7's in the date? Or the spot just to the right of the word "trust"? Those do seem suspicious

Quick question though, where can you find a scale for weighing coins? Are the $30 ones on Ebay any good? I'd like to weigh some of my coins, but I'm not sure where to start.

Hoping your Seated is real, but even if it isn't, it's a cool find nonetheless.

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

The raised dot is highly suspicious. Since the weight is about 8% less than it should be and the diameter appears to be about the same, the 1877 half should be noticeably thinner (about 8%). One more easy test you could perform is to see if it has the same silver sound as a Walker, Franklin, or 1964 Kennedy when dropped from a small distance onto a countertop or table. If you have access to laboratory equipment or know someone who does, a specific gravity or density test would be in order, followed by spectral analysis. The counterfeit seated dollars I have encountered were made from a nickel alloy which was noticeably less dense than the 90% silver, 10% copper alloy that used to be used in our silver coins.

I do not have access to any laboratory equipment, but I tried the sound test. I used a Walker in very good condition. The Walker had a higher tone than the Seated, but then I tried a Walker that was almost worn smooth and they both had the same tone.....

 

[coinshooterpa]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

The dot is strange... Is that another dot between the 7's in the date? Or the spot just to the right of the word "trust"? Those do seem suspicious

Quick question though, where can you find a scale for weighing coins? Are the $30 ones on Ebay any good? I'd like to weigh some of my coins, but I'm not sure where to start.

Hoping your Seated is real, but even if it isn't, it's a cool find nonetheless.

Yes there is a dot between the 7's and on the back next to "trust". If this coin would have been exposed to high temperatures like a fire, do you think that may have caused the marks on the coin?? As far as weighing my coins, I'm using a powder scale for reloading ammunition. It gives me weight in grains then I convert it to grams with an online calculator. But I noticed in a recent Bass Pro Shops flyer that they sell a digital powder scale for around 30 bucks which I think I may invest in. I think it has the option of selecting grains, grams etc....

 

[sitman]

Re: Took a "Seat" While Going Through Halves

I still don't know what to make of your coin. The dots just shouldn't be there, and I can't image that a fire caused them as they don't appear to be deposited, but rather part of the coin. An examination under a microscope at 100X or more would provide more information. On the plus side, you did get the proper silver ring. It's difficult to believe that someone would counterfeit such a common date (8,304,000 minted) using silver.

In purchasing a scale for weighing coins, I would recommend a scale that is accurate to 1/100th (0.01) gram. All of the weights in the Red Book are given to this accuracy.

Regardless, your coin is still a great find!