treasure beach find

[Bigcypresshunter]

Just learning to use computer.These are pics of my treasure beach find last Sept. 2004 days after hurricane. Piece of brass spike could be from 1715 ship, but what is this round, silver medallion? Appears to say: Jo-Ann L. Hall 12-30-43 -- 1-2-44. Of what century? Back side: G-1506 is pictured with spike. Need help.

 

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[Rudy(CA)]

Stainless steel is magnetic and silver isn't.? JIM

Not all stainless steel is magnetic. If you go to a ship chandlery, you can buy SS nuts and bolts
that are not magnetic. There are many places in a boat where these SS pieces are needed.
Mounting the ship's compass is one example that comes to mind.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Just learned to use computer. Found site on testing metals: http://shorinternational.com/TestGoldMakeSolution.htm Tryed to e-mail Paula at genealogy site but got delivery failure. I would like to know where this child was born and any history associated with her. I believe this tag to be from the 1800's by the style of writing. Found in Vero Beach, Florida. Can anyone help? Thanks,cypresshunter.

 

[SoutherMann]

True SS is not magnetic!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Update: I hope I'm not boring anyone, but something is telling me to find out the mystery of this artifact. Who is this child, who made this tag, for what purpose, and in what century? Heavily encrusted on the face side, buried so deep in the dunes, uncovered only after two successive hurricanes; it must be old. I don't see a match with modern stainless steel cremation tags. The first legal cremation being in 1872, in Great Britain. I checked Vero Beach history at http://www.rootsweb.com/~flindian/timeline.htm. The US Army established a post at Fort Vinton in 1842. The first settlers arrived in Indian River with promise of land if they bear arms against the Indians. But the inhabitants of this county were driven from it on account of Indian hostilities, and few of them would return. By 1850, Ft. Vinton was abandoned. Was JoAnn L. Hall a child from this failed original Indian River colony? 1850 census- http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/fl/stlucie/census/1850/pg0222a.txt -lists a Michael Hall in the US Army. Could he be related? Could this be some kind of official coffin or toe tag? What do the numbers G1506 mean? I think this is the key to positive identification. I am writing to the Vero Beach Historical Society and will keep y'all updated. My prayers go out for New Orleans evacuees. cypresshunter.

 

[cm5838]

I am new here, but this tag looks alot like tags put on or in coffins, some of the older ones had the deceased's name, there birth and death date and the plot number they were buried in. they have had problems with grave robbers digging up graves for these silver tags.
just my opinion.
charles

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Two successive hurricanes disturbed this possible gravesite, not me, so I don't feel so bad----and I might return it. And thank you Charles for the info. I appreciate any help. What century do you think this coffin tag is from?

 

[cm5838]

well, if it is silver try to find out how long it would have taken it to deteriorate to the point it is, those tags would have had a good finish on them. it may be hard to find out what reaction body fluids wold have had on them if it was inside a coffin though. my best guess would be 1844 or 1744, but i am not sure they used them in the 1700's. I used to know a corrosion micro biologist that could tell you, but she is no longer here. Wish i knew for sure.
Charles

 

[pgill]

Hi All,
Any more news on the tag yet? will be great to know more.

God bless
Peter Gill

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Peter, I appreciate the interest, but so far I have not been able to positive ID. I am leaning toward a coffin tag.
Note of interest: A well known salvage group is diving a recently found shipwreck site that is 50 feet out in the water, directly straight out from the spot that I found the coffin tag on Vero Bch. They found 10 ft. of ship rudder, a 29' keel section, and one iron cannon. I'm sure there are people on this forum that are familiar with this find. They believe it's Spanish and they are hoping that it will turn out to be one of the missing 1715 galleons.
If it is Spanish, there may also be a British wreck at the same location, mixed together, if my tag is from a shipwreck. I took my artifact to the Sebastian Museum but no one was there on a Sunday that could help me ID.
Bigcypresshunter.

 

[Floater]

BigCypress, Great find, I have read all the theory's here but I would be a little leery of taking it to the Museum unless your willing to part with it.The casual finds Law even though you found it on the beach may apply to it.I would put out a call or PM WreckDiver and see what he thinks about that. Doing some research on the Passengers on the Ships that wrecked during the 1844 time frame might lead you to some interesting conclusions also. Good Luck and once again a very interesting find. HH

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Floater,? Thanks for the tip.? I could find no known wreck in 1844 or 1744. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe Cornelius.
There were thousands of Halls living in Barbados, Bahamas, and Jamaica. Apparently a very popular name. Even in 1644.
This should not be that hard to construct a timeline of when and where. We have the exact date to the month and day of the month. ( but what century?)? We know it's English. But I need HELP.?
Anything would be appreciated.

Floater, did I meet you on Colored Beach months ago when I showed you a brass spike I found further North?

 

[Floater]

No we have never met BigCypress. I have never been to Colored Beach or any of the Treasure coast beaches Except Coco and Daytona in the 70,s I didnt relize you lived here in Ft Lauderdale. Im sending you a PM. The only thing about the Name Tag being that old is that the Back of it with the G-1506 seems like a 20th century mark. 1900's. I thought about it and I do feel it is from the 1940,s HH

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I thought the same thing when I first found it. If what you say is true, (from the 1940's), then it should be easy to check birth and hospital records to make a positive ID. When I found it, the face side was heavily encrusted with I guess coral, (the same stuff on the tip of 1715 spike, from original pic, found together) and I could only read one side with the G-1506. The other side was completely covered. I originally thought it was a junk galvanized meter tag and gave it away to a friend for giving me a ride to the Treasure beaches. He was curious, drunk, and thinking that it might say "Boone's Farm" or something from a wine bottle, one night he sanded the unknown side with sandpaper! After he realized it may be worth something, he gave it to a diver friend who mailed it to someone who mailed it out of town, who mailed it back and said it was indeed an old infant female grave marker for a coffin box on a ship Row-G/ aisle 15 area #6, but he ruined it by sanding it. Well this is all too much and nothing verified. I took it back and with nothing to lose I polished it with silver polish which took the scratches out and gives it the shiny look it has today. I learned how to use a computer and found this forum which I thought was my best bet for identification. Now you know the whole story.
I cannot get a better picture but the G-1506 is crude and not exactly straight or modern print. If anyone can prove it's only 60 years old of course I would accept it. But I don't think so and I hope others who can help do not lose interest.
Thank You

 

[ClamBob]

Just to let you know, when I originally read your post, I was so intrigued that I spent nearly an hour researching the name/date/etc. just about every way you could imagine. No success.

Good Luck and HH,
BobJ

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Bob, I appreciate your help. I also have become intrigued. I believe there is a story behind this. If it was WWII era (1943-44) I would think it would be easy to find birth records for JoAnn L. Hall. But I cannot.
The people I meet are either very interested or not at all. Many people have told me it's modern junk, the museum guard told me it's too shiny to be old, another told me the item says 1944 (which it does not)... we originally thought the name was To:Ann LiKull, I have had many discouragements but I will continue to insist that it may have some historical significance until proven otherwise....Who knows, it may help ID a British or pirate shipwreck.
Thanks again,
Bigcypresshunter.

 

[Floater]

BigCypress,By no means did I intend to discourage you at all. I would agree that it may be easier to locate someone from the 1940s vs the !800 time frame but please keep in mind that there were no computers back then and at best records of birth and death certificates were issued by local goverments. A child that young would have no Soc. Sec. # If the person was a resident of lets say Brevard county then a search at the local courthouse might work for you. I dont think they have death certificates online that far back unless they did input all the archives. I still think it is a great find and wish you the best reaching for your conclusions. HH

 

[Noodle]

Actually, birth and death records from the 1800s are plentiful, but not in the government archives. These happenings were recorded in family Bibles and written histories or journals. Land records (sales and titles) were meticulous, but alas were burned when courthouses burned. The birth and death of a child would only have been recorded in a family momento, such as the Bible. Or the tale passed on from one generation to another. This is where genealogy records come in, and programs such as Ancestry.com. The mormons have a wealth of knowledge stored in Salt Lake City, but it is accessible to the general public. I find the ancestry.com lead to be promising, but not positive proof. Continued efforts to locate the poster of that information might yield more answers. "Where did she get this information" is a good beginning if she is ever located (the posters are almost always women).

The birth and death of a baby in the mid-1800s would have been a quiet happening to the general public. It happened every day. What makes this particular one known is the small tag found with her name and dates on it. Do not look to find information on her in a public record (government), especially if she was born and buried at sea, unless you happen to get lucky and find the ship's record books in some historical organization.

In my small town in Louisiana, birth and death records began to be kept only in the early 1900s, even though the area had been settled for almost a century. The newspaper began about the same time. Earlier records are very sketchy. People buried their dead in their own backyards and fields. It was not a government-controlled activity as it is now. In my genealogy efforts, I still scour fields for graves of distant relatives, one of which was "marked with a bed post."

I still find this very intriguing. Even if you never learn more, you know that she existed and when, if not where.

NOODLE

 

[ClamBob]

Give the internet another ten years and it will be easy to look up these records...just not all digitized yet. But it will be. Look how far the net has come in the last ten years.

Still, I am almost as amazed by what can be researched as I am by what can not.

HH,
BobJ

 

[Boardwalker]

What an intriguing find! I have been thinking about the brad or spike shown with the medallion ( I like medallion rather than tag). If the spike and medallion are connected in fact, then I think that the 20th century is out, because fasteners from 1944 just don't look that primitive.

The genealogy of Jo Anne Hall is interesting, and might be right on (- re: reference at RootsWeb.com) and the fact that this Jo Anne's parents were over 40 certainly would make survival at childbirth a risky business....especially in 1843. Surviving birth for only 3 days probably lets out contraction of any post partum disease, since any quick - spreading pestilence such as cholera, typhoid, diptheria, would have a longer incubation period. However, if a stranded company of pilgrims was fearful of disease, i.e. the baby drowned in a December storm and shipwreck, they may have had a funeral pyre. A coffin would of course account for the spike, and the medallion could have been hung around the neck of the baby. All is speculation.....

Boardwalker.

 

[beeper]

BUT- on the other item in the 2nd photo the long square pin, appears to be a "woodriff key" square, tapered front, used on shafts to lock and turn an object, ie: propeller shft to propeller.