United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

[HobBob]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Thanks guys for reviving the thread so newbies like me can find it and share in the adventure.
Too cool for words!! Great job - the adventure of a lifetime.
As always, happy hunting!
Bob

 

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[cwe]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

This is the most interesting posting I have read in a long time..
you realize while you are reading this ....that these were real
people with a real purpose ...then it is all gone.

I think this was a great thing to do it brings something back to
remember them ..

Good job
cwe

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

More

1. Lipstick Tube KIMBERLY Roe-Kelle

2. Curtin Decorations ?

3. Scovil Gripper

 

[Postalrevnant]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Congratulations Jeff.

Just got a chance to read through this post. That's awesome research and one real nice pile of finds of all kinds. Great pieces of Aviation history as well. I was Army Aviation 13 years, so your post certainly interested me. I have been taking my time reading on this one.

There are 2 smaller crashes here in Kentucky within 200 miles of me that happened a good amount of time ago. Sorry don't want to give away too many details. It will be hard finding them, if someone hasn't beaten me to it. They are not as big that aircraft, but there is certainly a great amount of history to be found and perhaps more.

When the time comes I might need to give you a few PM's to see if you have any advice on a search pattern.

TY,

Postalrevnant

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

thanks Postal.

Any Time !

Jeff

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

en centro america en la selva encontre un resto de dc 6 muy impresionante es algo para hacer un documental de la comdicion del aparato con todo el misterio...

Translation :

in central america in the forest find a remainder of dc 6 very impressive is something to do a documentary one of the comdicion of the apparatus with all the mystery

¿Hizo Jamás usted una búsqueda en ello?

¿Encontró usted algo Intresting?

Did you Ever do a search on it ?

Did you Find anything Intresting ?

 

[Trez]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

I still think this is one of if not thee best post on the forum...........
Simply an amazing post overall............
Documented, researched, and actually working on the exact site with the results you have achieved...it adds the one thing that many posts lack...and that is...it has a truly personal touch.
Each personal items you shared with us...makes one think of how it must have been like before, during...and after that flight.

Thank you again and again........

Trez

 

[coalfire]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

I have to say damn good work to Jeff & Rich!!!
I had lived in Mt. Carmel, Kulpmont, Shamokin & Sunbury for many years before moving to WV. I did a lot of investigation on that crash myself. (sorry to say most of it is missing now after moving)

I would like to add some info I found out...
I started to look for this site after reading a single sentence in a "Treasure" book.
From several people I talked to, they gave me the following...There were almost no full bodies found after the wreck. I was told only a single babies body was recovered. A guy who I worked with at a hardware store told me he and his father were doing some roofing work to their home in Shamokin when the plane came over. It was smoking and they could hear the plane definitely having trouble. The underside of the plane was on fire. (which is the cargo section which had the "bundle of money" more below) The bundle of money (reported to be $250,000.00) supposedly dropped on the way to where the plane crashed. In a coal mining area. (some people have told me it was recovered but never reported to authorities, no one ever says who though.) Also told to me was that immediately after the wreck MANY people showed up and the "Coal & Iron Police" had to stop many and send them back to the road. Also said to me was that the "Coal & Iron Police" took many pieces of property for themselves. Some things like rings and money right off the bodies!

What I researched...(a lot of which I was shown from a file of photocopies in the Shamokin Public library. Some I found in Microfilm at the same Library.)
There is a grave of an unidentified girl (?) in the Centralia grave yard.
On board was two (2) bundles of $250,000.00. A registered package containing diamonds of which it was reported that a group of postal workers, (from where exactly I am not sure) came in to search for. They found 180. (sorry I don't have the photocopies of the article anymore) I believe another mentioned that Mr. Carrol was with two women on the flight. One photocopy at the library has a photo with a dotted line of how the plane landed.

To me it looks like the plane was going to try to head to Bloomsburg to land but was not going to make it so (and this is a guess) the pilot might have been thinking of landing on coal land in the Wilburton area. (near Aristies) then landed in an incline with one wing hitting the transformer. The transformer was a building that fed power to a coal breaker I believe. It is still there. But it was rebuilt with concrete on approximately the same spot. The plane wreckage was bulldozed into a hole and covered after the CAB allowed them to.

I myself have been to the site several times. I didn't have a permit though. It is directly behind the Wilburton #2 (a small coal patch of houses that is still there. Wilburton #1 is between Mt. Carmel and this "patch".) VFW or American Legion building on the Aristise side of the "Patch" of houses. When I went in winter time and stood on the coal mine property road to this area, (which divides the crash path) and looked up and down along the path of the wreck, you could make out an area where the plane hit. On the upper side toward the VFW or American Legion building I walk and saw a lot of quartz in the laurel. Down the other way I saw the transformer building to the right side and found metal with rivets like pictured above but smaller.
This was several years ago. The friend who showed me the site later told me of Jeff's & Rich's finds.

~Z~
Here is a graphic I made of the site.

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Thanks and Welcome Z

I learned about the crash the same way. A sentence on the $250,000.00. and started my research from there.

First let me say, according to the Papers & the Final report, all passengers were Identified by the Coroner with help from the F.B.I.
and the only person buried in Centralia was Von Sebo, at the request of his family. and in the other Cemetery a grave saying Unidentified Victims, but I think it's just maybe a few parts, they weren't able to
place with anyone in particular.

IF I get a Scanner I'll Post the Clippings on the Money, Diamonds, and Etc.

I have a Big Problem with the Money being thrown out or dropping out. First the Eyewitness I talked to and ones I read their reports from,
said the plain was flying very low. so low, you could see the Passengers faces looking out the windows. there was mention of smoke
but was dismissed as normal.
If the planes bottom were burned through, why did only the Cash
Fall out & not all the Baggage & Diamonds.
If someone threw the cash out to lighten the load, Why not the Mail, Baggage & Diamonds too ?
The Final report said the pilots were asphyxiated by CO2
from a defect in the DC-6's Misidentifying a fire and setting off the
extinguishers.
You are correct.
The reports on how many diamonds changed with papers, but it may have been because of the amount going up, as more were found.

And you are correct on where the Plane was Buried.
We were told we could Dig it up, But it was said Jokingly,
as it would take heavy Equipment.

 

[coalfire]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

I also have a problem with the "bundle of money" being tossed or dropping. If a member of the crew tossed it why not many of other things, like seats parachutes, or luggage. No luggage was found along the flight path, at least not reported. The "bundles of money" may have been very large and wrapped so no one would have known onboard what they were. Still I doubt. But the cargo section was suppose to be were the fire was. It may have fell. (but then why no luggage?)

As for the diamonds...well, maybe they were in the cockpit area. Diamonds are not very big and they were repoted as "registered Mail". Different area of plane? I looked for all report in the papers of the diamonds. Last reported to the papers was 181 I believe. I also assume they were 1 carat or more each because the postal workers were walking and looking probably with racks & shovels.

People I spoke with also gave different versions as to smoke. From the people I talked to it would seem no smoke at Shamokin (one said there was some in Shamokin) but smoke was showing by Mt. Carmel. They said they could definately hear the plane in trouble at Shamokin.

Below is my graphic with an idea of where the debris feild would be. Except for the other side of the Aristes/ Mt. Carmel road. Also what homes in Wilburton #2 at that end were there and which were built after.
But I still defer to you Jeff & Rich.
~Z~

 

[Rich in Central PA]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Hello everybody. Been quite awhile since I made some posts to this board and this thread, so here is a slight correction to Zeawolf's map if I may and more related information to the previous posts.

Zeawolf........It is the American Legion building not the VFW. You are just off a little bit off on the crash site. The aircraft crashed in to the transformer (as shown in your pic) and continued directly on up over the dirt road (shown in your pic), and continued on about another 75 yards up the bank. This is the EXACT crash route...........about 100 yards to the right of the American Legion heading towards Aristes.

Just below the American Legion down the hill in the woods are the remains of several small foundations which Jeff and I detected. We beleive they are the remains of the houses/shacks of the Chinese immigrants who built the railroad just below the transformer. Jeff found a Chinese cash coin there. We also found several harmonica reeds other misc stuff. The railroad is not there anymore but I have pictures of it being there. The Coal Company used the railroad to transpot coal.

Here is a revised picture of the crash site as I marked in yellow. The rest of the map looks accurate Zeawolf.............Rich..............PS: More stuff to follow

 

[Rich in Central PA]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

I have to say damn good work to Jeff & Rich!!!
I had lived in Mt. Carmel, Kulpmont, Shamokin & Sunbury for many years before moving to WV. I did a lot of investigation on that crash myself. (sorry to say most of it is missing now after moving)

I would like to add some info I found out...
I started to look for this site after reading a single sentence in a "Treasure" book.
From several people I talked to, they gave me the following...There were almost no full bodies found after the wreck. I was told only a single babies body was recovered. A guy who I worked with at a hardware store told me he and his father were doing some roofing work to their home in Shamokin when the plane came over. It was smoking and they could hear the plane definitely having trouble. The underside of the plane was on fire. (which is the cargo section which had the "bundle of money" more below) The bundle of money (reported to be $250,000.00) supposedly dropped on the way to where the plane crashed. In a coal mining area. (some people have told me it was recovered but never reported to authorities, no one ever says who though.) Also told to me was that immediately after the wreck MANY people showed up and the "Coal & Iron Police" had to stop many and send them back to the road. Also said to me was that the "Coal & Iron Police" took many pieces of property for themselves. Some things like rings and money right off the bodies!

What I researched...(a lot of which I was shown from a file of photocopies in the Shamokin Public library. Some I found in Microfilm at the same Library.)
There is a grave of an unidentified girl (?) in the Centralia grave yard.
On board was two (2) bundles of $250,000.00. A registered package containing diamonds of which it was reported that a group of postal workers, (from where exactly I am not sure) came in to search for. They found 180. (sorry I don't have the photocopies of the article anymore) I believe another mentioned that Mr. Carrol was with two women on the flight. One photocopy at the library has a photo with a dotted line of how the plane landed.

To me it looks like the plane was going to try to head to Bloomsburg to land but was not going to make it so (and this is a guess) the pilot might have been thinking of landing on coal land in the Wilburton area. (near Aristies) then landed in an incline with one wing hitting the transformer. The transformer was a building that fed power to a coal breaker I believe. It is still there. But it was rebuilt with concrete on approximately the same spot. The plane wreckage was bulldozed into a hole and covered after the CAB allowed them to.

I myself have been to the site several times. I didn't have a permit though. It is directly behind the Wilburton #2 (a small coal patch of houses that is still there. Wilburton #1 is between Mt. Carmel and this "patch".) VFW or American Legion building on the Aristise side of the "Patch" of houses. When I went in winter time and stood on the coal mine property road to this area, (which divides the crash path) and looked up and down along the path of the wreck, you could make out an area where the plane hit. On the upper side toward the VFW or American Legion building I walk and saw a lot of quartz in the laurel. Down the other way I saw the transformer building to the right side and found metal with rivets like pictured above but smaller.
This was several years ago. The friend who showed me the site later told me of Jeff's & Rich's finds.

~Z~
Here is a graphic I made of the site.

Zeawolf...............here are the 2 people buried at St. Ignatious cemetary in Centralia.

 

[Rich in Central PA]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

I also have a problem with the "bundle of money" being tossed or dropping. If a member of the crew tossed it why not many of other things, like seats parachutes, or luggage. No luggage was found along the flight path, at least not reported. The "bundles of money" may have been very large and wrapped so no one would have known onboard what they were. Still I doubt. But the cargo section was suppose to be were the fire was. It may have fell. (but then why no luggage?)

As for the diamonds...well, maybe they were in the cockpit area. Diamonds are not very big and they were repoted as "registered Mail". Different area of plane? I looked for all report in the papers of the diamonds. Last reported to the papers was 181 I believe. I also assume they were 1 carat or more each because the postal workers were walking and looking probably with racks & shovels.

People I spoke with also gave different versions as to smoke. From the people I talked to it would seem no smoke at Shamokin (one said there was some in Shamokin) but smoke was showing by Mt. Carmel. They said they could definately hear the plane in trouble at Shamokin.

Below is my graphic with an idea of where the debris feild would be. Except for the other side of the Aristes/ Mt. Carmel road. Also what homes in Wilburton #2 at that end were there and which were built after.
But I still defer to you Jeff & Rich.
~Z~

Newpaper clips of missing $250,000 and diamonds. PS: There is a lesson to be learned here........never beleive everything what you read in the newspapers. Who in there right mind would go down in the baggage compartment and start throwing heavy packages out when they are about to crash. (I think I'd stay right in my seat and buckle down and brase myself, wouldn't you) They say they found 182 daimonds by picking them up one by one from the mud............yea right, thats what they wanted the public to beleive, they didn't want any looters up there. There are still diamonds up on there on them ther' hills....................Rich

 

[coalfire]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Like I said I defer to both of you guys. Most of the information I got was from the Shamokin (Mt.Carmel) newspapers. I didn't see anything from other areas news...yet. I guess I was thinking of the unidentified grave when I wrote before. You are right, never trust news, go and research is the way. The report of the helicopter definatly shows that they believed the "bundle" of money did fall out somewhere. I doubt it will ever be known.

As for the crash path, I just drew it in reference to the "dug out section" that is still there. I guess I am wrong as to it's location behind the American Legion.

A funny thing from the articles. It mentioned they retraced the plane's path. But Bear Gap is along a different path from the one I was told. I wonder if they flew around the Bear Gap area in the plane BEFORE crashing. Basiclly meaning they flew from Shamokin to Mt. Carmel, then (maybe) they flew out towards Eleysburg area, where the Northumberland Airport is now, but (maybe) they decided they could not make it and came back to the crash site.
~Z~

PS. could you repost the helicopter rticle. It reads like it is missing parts in two places.

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

I believe the whole article is there.



I should add there is another article saying there was NO Money on Board :P
That it was taken off at there first Stop before Continuing to New York :P NOW, What was That about ?

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

a day or 2 after the Cash Search was Printed,
this headline and statement was Released

Sorry for condition, This was printed from Microfilm,
at the Mt. Carmel Library.

COVER-UP ? Or TRUTH ?

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

.

 

[coalfire]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Jeff, great articles! I wish you had a better copy of the "missing Money" one.

I also think I know why Rich shows a different path. I was told the present transformer was totally rebuilt. From the bottom looking up, they moved and built the transformer stronger but more to the left of the crash path.
I love all the material you have. I really wish I hadn't lost mine or I would add it here. If by chance I find it or go back to Shamokin I will add it. I believe the Shamokin Library has alot of the Mt. Carmel newspaper on microfilm since the MtCarmel paper was bought by the Shamokin one. The Mt. Carmel News (?) bought by the Shamokin Item to become the Shamokin News Item. I also think the Shamokin Library had a new microfilm machine with a a better in-system copier the last time I was there several years ago. But call them to check first.
~Z~

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

The Mt Carmel Microfilm is very poor.

parts Missing due to off center filming.
and out of focus.

Then add Photo Copying from the microfilm.

It was a Nightmare.
I Know I missed Important info just because it was hard to read.
Plus getting Motion Sickness Going through roll after roll

 

[old man]

Re: United Airlines DC-6 Flight 624

Jeff,
Great story. I was born up there a year after the crash and growing up, I heard many stories from relatives in the area. They reported that quite a few diamonds and diamond rings were found by locals at the crash site.