Victorio Peak Update

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi again. Doing a lil research turned up this = it showed that most of the Apache were quite willing to trade their loyalties for physical gain. The story of the Apache scouts in the campaign to fight the renegade Apache Even the renegades were.

Full text of "An Apache Campaign In The Sierra Madre"

Fascinating true story

 

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[sdcfia]

Hi again. Doing a lil research turned up this = it showed that most of the Apache were quite willing to trade their loyalties for physical gain. The story of the Apache scouts in the campaign to fight the renegade Apache Even the renegades were.

Full text of "An Apache Campaign In The Sierra Madre"

Fascinating true story

Yes, the Bourke story is very good. Remember though, the game was over for the Apache by this time. It was a far different story in the Southwest before the Anglos came - the Apaches were in control until then.

 

[treasminder2]

thanks for your response

Sorry man

but i have forgotten more then most ever would come to know for themselves .

I am aware that there is something that Dad investigated in the Rincon area .

However , for the last couple decades , I have lived without thought to much of his stuff .

there was so much , that , well , i focus on a small bit , and since 2006 , I have not been active
in the field .

 

[UncleMatt]

Well, if anything occurs to you, let us know! I haven't been able to find any sign of a spring near Rincon, which probably means there is a sign and an exit for it on the highway!

 

[treasminder2]

Addendum , or annotated notes on The Oren Swearingen persecution of Harvey Snow .

1. Oren had a very large file of Dads friends , myself, from his days of gleaning information from each of these people .

ok
where those people , My Dad , myself , had a reason to be curious as to what he was up to , was the fact , that
not matter what he had gleaned , he never really pursued the sites and engaged in excavating anything there .

He gleaned, he left , then later , came back to glean info again and leave .

The question of his Motives became a curiosity to the Group .

it was posited : he is a Mole for a larger group of people .


understand that .

His activities were void of normal lineal attributes associated with people who hunt treasure .

You research , compile notes, and at some point in the stack of notes, you feel you have enough to go out into the field ,
and walk your site .

A hunter , some of you here , may eventually find a possible dig spot at their chosen site .

Oren Swearingen , just gleaned info , he never attempted to go to a site , scout it for a possible dig , and when that
was found , pull out the gear and go for it .

He simply would glean info .

That , right there , goes against pragmatic common sense .

It does not fit a Treasure Hunting protocol at all .

Granted there are those who research for their files , and write books , granted there are those who
for whatever reason , listen and never do .

But Oren was going at it like an Obsessive Compulsive , and one could only believe , that Oren would have
engaged this info and Dug .

So , given that oddity in his behavior , and the way people he bothered for the info , thought of outsiders and their inquisitiveness .

He was labeled a Mole for a Larger Clan .

As it turned out in the future ( 1990's ) we find his Church members and him at Victorio Peak digging .

Where the Mormon Church never had anything to do with that peak historically .

Ergo
The Handle : Mormon Mafia was attached to the Jack Mormons who were engaged in crimes focused at
other treasure hunters and claimants to the Peak .

There is ONE Person , very wealthy , in the State of Texas , who actually hired the investigative team
of Bob Mahues in Las Vegas .

To keep a very close eye on me , and a lot of the survalence equipment I removed from my home and vehicles ,
turned out to be theirs .

Bob is gone
but the agency still is active .

Ah the treasure game ,, full of nice intrusions .

 

[treasminder2]

Treasure hints of the southwest

1. flip that Omega symbol upside down .

you are associating it with the Greek omega symbol

turn it over so the U part is pointing down .

NOW, you have the correct view of it .

what does that make you picture in your mind now ?

2. Pay close attention to the larger Boulders in your area .
if you spot one with a smaller boulder atop of it , go sniff around it .

check down low
scrape away the dirt from the base
some map rocks of this sort , used the shadows of the terrain around them painted on the low section of the boulder

a long line from one symbol , usually one of the shadows you will see when you turn your back to the map ,
will be a trail , and on the map will end at another symbol .

in the case of the La Rue Map Rock on the West side

a line ( trail ) led 1732 yards to the south , it began at a symbol representing the map rock , and ended ,,,
( this is very important ) to a symbol painted on the map , that was the outline of a boulder found 1732 yards away ( Say it as Varas if you are convinced everything in the southwest is Spanish )

So , what that map told you was to " SEE " the skyline outline of the boulder . which on the map
was represented by a simple humped line ( this is like stick figure drawings , wouldn't want to make anything too obvious would they ? )

ok , got the idea about the Omega symbol now , Huge rounded Boulder .
the skyline outline of it .

Ok further note on the symbols

square : top of square is surface of the land the vault is built under
a vault dug downward ( Specific to the La Rue map , other maps ? )

see this symbol >>>-----> )

you've seen that on maps , right ?

ok
Look at a Pick , take the handle off the pick and look at the head ( steel Pick part )

does it look like ..>>>>-----> (

that's right , it does indeed look like that

what does it mean ?

what do you use a pick for ?

you use it to ,,, hang on,,,, here it comes,,,,, TO DIG

on your map , where ever that symbol is situated , it is telling you " DIG HERE DUDE "

I have read peoples statement that the symbol is the Crescent Moon symbol and means ::::: a bunch of CRAP

it means one thing only

and that is ,,,

DIG RIGHT DIRECTLY ON THIS SPOT .

Ok

In the case of La Rue

His trail to point you to where exactly he wanted you to enter the mountains , He set down a large cross
made of rocks , it laid flat to the surface of the ground so as not to attract the attention of folks
who had no business seeking his stuff .

One is just to the west of " A " Mountain across the road and UP from the wash to the west
the LONG TAIL , when eyed from down low , points straight to Mine House Spring

There at mine house , you will find a round boulder with a davit carved into it

in that , it burnede La Rues strike mark

on the top right of the davit is a small arrow head shape chip taken out of it .

His message was for you to walk in that direction and seek further info .

as you look that direction

you will note flat top boulders with small rocks set on top of them

these are all low boulders with flat tops about 3 to 4 foot high .

The first one will have about 10 rocks on it

stand on top of it and look further

and you will see the next flat top boulder with rocks on it

get to that one , and notice there are a few less rocks then the first

That's right , the amount of rocks on the marker Boulders decrease as you get closer to the Target Vault .

Finally , about 200 yards from the Vault , I found a flat top boulder with just one rock on it .

shaped as an arrow head , it pointed to a BIG white boulder , that the skyline outline of , matched the humped line
on the map rock ,
the humped line on the map rock had this symbol next to it >>>-------> (

what the message was , find that outline of a boulder at the end of the trail , where the last monument has only
one rock on it , shaped as a pointer ,,
pointing straight at the vault ,,,

and the little curve cresent line means DIG THERE at that Boulder .

To interpret that boulder did not take a stoke of genius as much as it did a stroke of luck

I was at the boulder during the Summer Soltice , when the Sun was close to setting in the West , I just happened to be sitting there with my back to the boulder

and up there on the mountain , almost every shape on that Map rock behind me , appeared in shadows ..

So note That
if you have a map , painted or etched on a Bluff , Boulder , or other solid permanent surface .

PLACE YOUR BACK TO IT AND LOOK STRAIGHT OUT FROM IT .

Emphatically, this is how many of these were meant to be read .

Cool Beans ?

alright then

 

[treasminder2]

As I have stated many times before

ALWAYS SEEK THE WATER SOURCE AT YOUR SITE OF INTEREST .

A spring

Springs came and went in that terrain ,

some sank to pop up down stream

so look for the Greenest vegetation
even if water is not where that Green vegetation is , water is there below the surface .

Reason being : Water attracts , a person cannot survive without it .

When it was thought to leave sign that a vault was placed in the area , they always picked a place for the clues
where they knew people after them would be sure to come ,,

and that is WATER SOURCE

ergo the spring clue .

You may find many pictoglyphs and think they mean Treasure

no so fast
some of those are Indian advertizing

such as : " Have two Chickens and a Goat , good layers of eggs , and good milk "
will swap for dishwasher woman who also does windows "

seriously
some picto's of animals are just some brave bragging he killed one in that area .

so do not get too exited about what appears to be Indian Brags .

You are looking for Western Civilization artifacts laid away

Not the Blood stains on a rock from some natives mid day snack rabbit .

The picto's you want , have a non Native style .

so those are to be sought and the Native ones deleted out .

 

[mdog]

Thanks for your posts Roger. I've seen the upside down Omega sign you described. It was carved up high on the face of a bluff and I couldn't figure out how it tied in to the site.

 

[mdog]

That would be viable if you could provide even one example of the Apaches bargaining with Europeans, whom they had been at constant war with with since the mid 1600's in New Mexico. Why would the tribe favor the Jesuits over any other invaders (Spanish, Franciscans), and what sort of payment would they accept for a "hands off" agreement? Remember, these people were as treacherous as they come. Also, why is there no record with the Apache of such an alliance, which would have required numerous expeditions to move at a minimum 4,000 bars of gold (2,000 each for Caballos and VP that is rumored - may have been many more for all we know). Don't you suppose someone might have noticed? Basing this theory on the "Noss map" is acceptable only if you can verify its integrity.

Mdog's analysis is interesting. If you use the Caballos' (same 33degree latitude) navigatible river location as a major trail cache site, then you have an easy-to-find pick up spot for those unfamiliar with the territory. Of course, once the travelers find the mountain, then they need more information in order to locate the cache. It's interesting to note that this area (Caballos, Organs and Uvas Mountains) is the home of some mighty old Mediterranean style petroglyphs.

Sdcfia, I'm interested in the Mediterranean style petroglyphs in that area. I live by the Mississippi River and I doubt I'll ever make it out to New Mexico but I'm looking for that kind of stuff where I live. Could you describe some of these. I'm particularly interested in the style used on high places in the terrain. Thanks.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd evening sdcfia ; coffee?? You asked -- hat would be viable if you could provide even one example of the Apaches bargaining with Europeans, whom they had been at constant war with with since the mid 1600's in New Mexico.

Try this --http://www.archive.org/stream/apachecampaignin001869mbp/apachecampaignin001869mbp_djvu.txt

Thsy accepted money etc to hunt and kill their own people.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Roger, coffee?? A small but interesting point, a vara is equal approx. 1 meter, a codo + !/2 a vara/ Asjust your measurements accordingly.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

me rules applied then also since there was effectively no coherent Apache nation, which at times were at war with each other.

 

[sdcfia]

G'd evening sdcfia ; coffee?? You asked -- hat would be viable if you could provide even one example of the Apaches bargaining with Europeans, whom they had been at constant war with with since the mid 1600's in New Mexico.

Try this --http://www.archive.org/stream/apachecampaignin001869mbp/apachecampaignin001869mbp_djvu.txt

Thsy accepted money etc to hunt and kill their own people.

Please see post #83.

 

[treasminder2]

from the archives of this forum

2007

from a member in referrence to treatment of my post

by the moderators of this forum

Quote that member
his post of 2007

" Seems to me that treasure-minder aka Roger Snow(?) has an aweful LOT to be aggrevated about. When the forum moderators delete his posts is like adding insult to injury, from my perspective. His being a descendant of Doc Noss(this is what I am assuming as factual), it also seems to me he should be shown an extra modicum of respect by all members here. Everyone OUTSIDE of this forum has been pissing on this man's leg and telling him it is raining, most of his life. His life has been a nightmare, I am sure. The moderators should be ashamed for doing what they did. They should have gone the extra mile with this man, at the very least asking him to accept their apologies for the wrongs they have done to him here. I don't see him flaming anyone. But, my experience has been that some people try to provoke others that are very tightly wrapped, as Roger is, JUST FOR SICK REASONS.And, they do it in such as a way as not to get noticed by the moderators.I'm NOT stating that is what has happenned here, but I have seen it on many other forums.They just kinds gently touch maybe two or three "buttons", then sit back and wait.Kinda like gentle-baiting. But, I personally am very supportive and sympathetic of his plight. People should take his long hard battles into consideration, and try to understand.

end quote

yep

i hve me some trolls alright

next post

confront the moderators here

 

[treasminder2]

Quote the moderator : " treaszure_Hunter

quote :

tHEN , IF YOU WANT IT BAD ENOUGH

GO FIND THEM

THERE ARE STILL SOME OUT THERE SOMEWHERE , OR , AT LEAST THE onfp CLIM THERE IS

HEH HEH

JUST GO LOOK FOR THE BARS

WHY BOTHER BELIEVING WHAT IS POSTED HERE


Moderators statement to me >>>--->> Please stop writing in all caps...

I am about half blind

a senior citizen

I type in the dark at times

and
My fingers suffer fiber malagia

would you like to persecute a Terminally Il Patient next ?

and how about that deleteing my post way back then

anthing change since then ?

why not delete this as well ?

HELL NO YOU ARE NOT BIASED

RIGHT ?

HELL NO

NOT A NICE GUY LIKE YOUY

RIGHT ?

You single out an Old Man, ( mE, roger snow )who is terminal

while he is slapping Lies down about his Murdered Dad

Then you get on his Neck over his disability

Delete this post and BAN my arse

show these members what A GOOD MAN YOU ARE


you deleted my post about Oren Disrespecting My dead dad wafter my Dad was dead and not able to
defend his self

the post about Oren are facts

I disrespected a daed man for disrespecting my Dead Father

you leave that Suid Oen Sweaingens post up
and delete mkine ?

and you are NOT PERSECUTING me\\

NO ?

HOW MAZNY MEMBERS HAVE BROUGHT THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION

I KNOW MANY WHO HAVE BROUGHT IT TO MINE

CAPS BOTHER YOU ?

REALLY ?

WELL BAN EVERY ONE WHO USES CAPS
INCLUDING YOURSELF THEN

ARE YOU TROLLING ME ?

YOU WARN ME AND DELETE MY POST ALL OVER THIS FORUM FOR YEARS RUNNING

HAVE YOU GOT A CLUE ?

Watch what this TREASURE HUNTER DOES NEXT

IF I RECEIVE A PM FROM HIM

I WILL PROXY SERVER AND POST IT HERE

pERSECUTING sENIORS WHO ARE HANDICAPPED

See how you are

see how you act

Mirror Bud

here it is

now hit the BAN button





WHATS UP WITH YOU MAGOO ?

 

[sdcfia]

Sdcfia, I'm interested in the Mediterranean style petroglyphs in that area. I live by the Mississippi River and I doubt I'll ever make it out to New Mexico but I'm looking for that kind of stuff where I live. Could you describe some of these. I'm particularly interested in the style used on high places in the terrain. Thanks.

Give me some time to go through some files and try to find some photos, mdog. It's been awhile since I looked at that stuff, but as I recall, there are several middle eastern goddess looking carvings, hebrew-style symbols or alphabet letters, and such. Also, some ogham-appearing marks, which I think are actually related more to the British Isles - ?? There used to be a website where videos of carving panels were shown by some local historians. They didn't reveal exactly where the carvings were located, but it looked to me these were high up on ridges overlooking the Rio Grande on the east side. I'll see if I can get that site link too. The Los Lunas Decalogue stone is another example, but it's way north of the Caballos. That site is easy to google.

 

[treasminder2]

Alright

this is a post made by Claudes Son

he posted here on this forum

read what he states about my Dad and his being close friends who sent people away with
false info

This is what they Did to Oren Swearingen

and That FOOL Oren ran his mouth calling my Dad a Liar

What that foll missed

was that his cover had been blown

Dad and Claude KNEW he was a Mole

ergo

They took him to a Dead Zone

to a false ( red herring site )

and Oren spurted out that Dad had lied

Yeah you stupid Mormon

what did you expect Oren

for them to take you by your self entitled baby powdered arse and lead you right up
to treasure ?

GET A CLUE

her's the quote from Dads Friend Clauded's Son


quote

This is my first posting here (or anywhere for that matter) regarding Victorio Peak and some of the things which are true or believed concerning it. I have no huge axe to grind with anyone who has posted here in any way at all. I am not interested in getting drawn into debates, any type of bad blood, comments about other people or their families and/or beliefs which they know far better than I do, or anything else which may or may not exist here between members on this board. Therefore I will keep my comments focused only on what I know to be true, things I have seen evidence of, and things I have been told directly by my own father. I will not reveal his whole story here, either on the forum, or in private messages. I personally couldn't care less who is looking for what, or if they do or do not ever find it. I do this only because my fathers name has been repeatedly raised here, and as I am his youngest son and suffer from a terminal illness, I am possibly the only person who can set the record straight on his behalf. This I will do only for the sake of historical accuracy. I apologize in advance if I am coming off hard nosed, as that is not my intent. I am just trying to establish a basic framework for understanding my comments, and where my thoughts are at as I write this.

My father was Claude Suddreth. He passed away in 2005 in Colorado of advanced years, at 93 years of age. He was very involved in treasure hunting and prospecting in New Mexico when we lived there. We moved when I was out of the 2nd grade, at about 8 years of age I guess. He worked at Holloman AFB as a civil service welder, and we lived in Tularosa, NM at the time, about 1.5 miles from his friend Harvey Snow who is also mentioned extensively here. We returned one more year in 1976 when I was in the 6th grade, and then we never came back there to live, although he also lived there for nearly 10 years before I was born, beginning sometime in the mid 1950's.

My father was involved in searches for several things, including but not limited to Victorio Peak, an outlaw treasure under a large boulder hidden by vegetation (I saw this cave myself as a boy through binoculars, but not treasure), one he referred to as "Geronimo's gold mine" which had 3 major waypoints, a cache of items hidden by the Apache, and the Adams diggings by the Malpie area. There are some others, but these seemed to enough to hold the majority of his interest. My father was very good friends with many Mescalero Apache's, as well as probably one of the best I have seen at reading and explaining spanish signs and symbols. How he learned to do that he never said, and as a boy I really did not think it was that important at the time.

I can confirm that Dad had a tendency to send people asking too many questions on a wild goose chase. As it has been mentioned, he felt he had put in the sweat, time, and energy to gain knowledge not otherwise known, and was in no hurry to share it. Likely I have heard his stories more than anyone else, at least the real ones. I can remember how I used to try to keep a straight face as strangers would show up out of the blue, and he would send them running in circles around the desert. Yet he loved to talk to anyone who would listen about his stories, just changing details around so they could never find it.

Regarding a gentleman named Oren Swearingen - Dad went to see him when I was about 17 years old I guess, about 1982. I know this for certain as I went with him, mostly to safeguard his person. He was getting older even then, and I did not know anyone we were meeting, or who might be waiting. I was pretty confident in my own ability with a firearm however, and intended that he and I would return, regardless of anything else. We did indeed go out as a group, and Dad showed a cave that had no steps or anything. This was expected however as a couple of soldiers had managed to rappel down an air shaft into a storage room shortly before, and said there was evidence of a cave in above when they explored. Of course like many such claims - they could not find their way back again..... Were they telling the truth? I do not know. I have no way to know if that was the right cave, or a similar cave close to the right cave. I know Dad thought well of Dr Swearingen, so I never got the feeling he was being purposefully deceptive with the gentleman, although with Dad one was never fully certain. However to my knowledge nothing was recovered from it. I will let folks make of that whatever they wish - I really have no answers other than what I have said.

About Victorio Peak itself - I have heard the story of Doc Noss and how the government came and took a truly massive amount of gold out of that mountain for literally my entire life. Was there treasure there? Maybe. Or not. I don't know. The cave Dad knew of as he put it - was not on Victorio Peak itself. Rather it was close to the peak. It was said to have steps going down, and 3 traps on those steps. First a rockfall from above. Second a trap door to cause you to fall to your death. And third another rockfall. It is possible the cave in was one of the rock falls being tripped. Or both. At the bottom was to be 3 rooms for storage, and one for smelting, as well as a vein of gold that was being mined. There were supposed to be bars of gold down there approximately the size of bricks - weighing an estimated 50 to 70 pounds each. Based on the dimensions of the rooms in question, and using a count with mathematical extension, at least 9000 and possibly as many as 12000 bars were said to be there. There was also a smaller amount of spanish armor, arms, and precious stones and items - likely from a church and / or another location. This was all confirmed, independently, by the two soldiers who claimed to have rappelled in through an air vent, as well as "lots and lots" of skeletons. So while Victorio peak may or may not have existed, and may or may not have been recovered, this is a different cache than the one Doc Noss spoke of. Or possibly Doc had the location in his story wrong, and it is the same cache. If Doc Noss had it wrong, it is not for me to say if it was accidental or on purpose. But this cache is not on Victorio peak itself, but rather a different place. I can not say if it is related in any way with any certainty. Nor can I comment about anything that was or was not on Victorio Peak itself as I simply have no knowledge.

That said if I were to guess, and a guess is all it would be, I would think Doc Noss "found" it somewhere else, in case he was followed or compromised in some way, so that in the end nobody but himself would know exactly where anything he found actually was. I know my Dad would do that, as well as most of his associates, so I see no reason Doc Noss would just up and tell the world where billions in gold he had found was at, to be stolen by anyone able to get to it. Would you?

This is all I am going to say on Victorio Peak for the moment. It should be sufficient to set the record straight where my Dad is concerned. Beyond that only, I am unconcerned about this particular cache, as I do not live in New Mexico and do not have the health at present to go there.

La Rue gold bars...... OK now this I did get a laugh from. I can confirm that Treasurehunter is related to Harvey Snow, because of this one thing he said. Something known only to my Dad and Harvey Snow, and I thought, me. Dad and Harvey DID make some "gold bars" out of lead I believe, and scribed La Rue on the top. They painted them with a spray can of gold paint, and then took a photo of them up in a desert canyon. I am not sure why they did this exactly, so it may have had something to do with a treasure magazine for all I know. But I know they are as fake as anything ever was. I remember asking him the first time to see one - and he didn't stop laughing for 10 minutes. Dad had a photo of them for years on his bedroom wall, and got a chuckle at least once a day when he would look at it. He loved making "educated idiots" look foolish. I guess they pulled something off on this one. But only Dad and Harvey Snow would have known this. Or their sons, like myself, and Treasurehunter. So I can confirm that those photos are pure BS. Pure and simple.

I don't believe Dad ever recovered anything of huge value. The life growing up, and how he lived after I left home, would in no way indicate riches. Why would he not recover something? Several. First this cache at least is on military land. If he would be caught there he would have had troubles with the MP's. So when he went in it was usually at night, and in ways that were difficult to track. Second was his age. He was 55 when I was born. 72 by the time we went back to see Dr Swearingen. With artificial knees and after surviving cancer, even by his early 60's he was not really in a position to be recovering too much of anything and covering long desert distances on foot carrying heavy weights. There are other reasons. Does this mean he absolutely found some huge wealth? If he did I never saw it with my own eyes. Does it mean he did not? No. I guess in the end it means nothing too much under the circumstances, other than whatever he might have found, remained there for others to recover in the future.

So beyond this I know nothing other than the things Dad told me privately. I am not sure I would want to reveal them all publicly for obvious reasons. I just wanted to set the record straight for whatever it might be worth to people in the years to come.

Take care all of you.


end quote of Claudes Son on the relationship between His Dad and mine

Now GOLLUM <---<< SEE THOSE CAPS ?

Who knew our Dads better ?

Oren and his new supporter " YOU "

or ,,,,

Us , their Sons ?

Remember this statement of yours concerning my Sister's muder

quote : "
Rog' is a little out there , but he3 can tell you about it "

Remeber that GOLLUM ?

You Knpow me ?

I am out there ?

did i tell you to lay off My Dad , my sister , myself and my Family ?

THAT WAS NOT A REQUEST BUD

IT WAS A COMMAND

You violate then snivel

You Trlled npot only me

but springfield

and neither of us cried to a moderator

You are like a child in an adult body

in the R>I.P thread

I took control of your emotions and you admitted you were angry

THAT , can only be done to the childish mind bud

I am out there ?

is that it

I replied

" I am crazy , yep , you're right ,, crazy like a FOX '

a Fox takes control of your mind

a crazy guy got to you

is that right ?

You were better off keeping it civil bud

I now will expose most of it .

 

[gollum]

Alright

this is a post made by Claudes Son

he posted here on this forum

read what he states about my Dad and his being close friends who sent people away with
false info

This is what they Did to Oren Swearingen

and That FOOL Oren ran his mouth calling my Dad a Liar

What that foll missed

was that his cover had been blown

Dad and Claude KNEW he was a Mole

ergo

They took him to a Dead Zone

to a false ( red herring site )

and Oren spurted out that Dad had lied

Yeah you stupid Mormon

what did you expect Oren

for them to take you by your self entitled baby powdered arse and lead you right up
to treasure ?

GET A CLUE

her's the quote from Dads Friend Clauded's Son


quote

This is my first posting here (or anywhere for that matter) regarding Victorio Peak and some of the things which are true or believed concerning it. I have no huge axe to grind with anyone who has posted here in any way at all. I am not interested in getting drawn into debates, any type of bad blood, comments about other people or their families and/or beliefs which they know far better than I do, or anything else which may or may not exist here between members on this board. Therefore I will keep my comments focused only on what I know to be true, things I have seen evidence of, and things I have been told directly by my own father. I will not reveal his whole story here, either on the forum, or in private messages. I personally couldn't care less who is looking for what, or if they do or do not ever find it. I do this only because my fathers name has been repeatedly raised here, and as I am his youngest son and suffer from a terminal illness, I am possibly the only person who can set the record straight on his behalf. This I will do only for the sake of historical accuracy. I apologize in advance if I am coming off hard nosed, as that is not my intent. I am just trying to establish a basic framework for understanding my comments, and where my thoughts are at as I write this.

My father was Claude Suddreth. He passed away in 2005 in Colorado of advanced years, at 93 years of age. He was very involved in treasure hunting and prospecting in New Mexico when we lived there. We moved when I was out of the 2nd grade, at about 8 years of age I guess. He worked at Holloman AFB as a civil service welder, and we lived in Tularosa, NM at the time, about 1.5 miles from his friend Harvey Snow who is also mentioned extensively here. We returned one more year in 1976 when I was in the 6th grade, and then we never came back there to live, although he also lived there for nearly 10 years before I was born, beginning sometime in the mid 1950's.

My father was involved in searches for several things, including but not limited to Victorio Peak, an outlaw treasure under a large boulder hidden by vegetation (I saw this cave myself as a boy through binoculars, but not treasure), one he referred to as "Geronimo's gold mine" which had 3 major waypoints, a cache of items hidden by the Apache, and the Adams diggings by the Malpie area. There are some others, but these seemed to enough to hold the majority of his interest. My father was very good friends with many Mescalero Apache's, as well as probably one of the best I have seen at reading and explaining spanish signs and symbols. How he learned to do that he never said, and as a boy I really did not think it was that important at the time.

I can confirm that Dad had a tendency to send people asking too many questions on a wild goose chase. As it has been mentioned, he felt he had put in the sweat, time, and energy to gain knowledge not otherwise known, and was in no hurry to share it. Likely I have heard his stories more than anyone else, at least the real ones. I can remember how I used to try to keep a straight face as strangers would show up out of the blue, and he would send them running in circles around the desert. Yet he loved to talk to anyone who would listen about his stories, just changing details around so they could never find it.

Regarding a gentleman named Oren Swearingen - Dad went to see him when I was about 17 years old I guess, about 1982. I know this for certain as I went with him, mostly to safeguard his person. He was getting older even then, and I did not know anyone we were meeting, or who might be waiting. I was pretty confident in my own ability with a firearm however, and intended that he and I would return, regardless of anything else. We did indeed go out as a group, and Dad showed a cave that had no steps or anything. This was expected however as a couple of soldiers had managed to rappel down an air shaft into a storage room shortly before, and said there was evidence of a cave in above when they explored. Of course like many such claims - they could not find their way back again..... Were they telling the truth? I do not know. I have no way to know if that was the right cave, or a similar cave close to the right cave. I know Dad thought well of Dr Swearingen, so I never got the feeling he was being purposefully deceptive with the gentleman, although with Dad one was never fully certain. However to my knowledge nothing was recovered from it. I will let folks make of that whatever they wish - I really have no answers other than what I have said.

About Victorio Peak itself - I have heard the story of Doc Noss and how the government came and took a truly massive amount of gold out of that mountain for literally my entire life. Was there treasure there? Maybe. Or not. I don't know. The cave Dad knew of as he put it - was not on Victorio Peak itself. Rather it was close to the peak. It was said to have steps going down, and 3 traps on those steps. First a rockfall from above. Second a trap door to cause you to fall to your death. And third another rockfall. It is possible the cave in was one of the rock falls being tripped. Or both. At the bottom was to be 3 rooms for storage, and one for smelting, as well as a vein of gold that was being mined. There were supposed to be bars of gold down there approximately the size of bricks - weighing an estimated 50 to 70 pounds each. Based on the dimensions of the rooms in question, and using a count with mathematical extension, at least 9000 and possibly as many as 12000 bars were said to be there. There was also a smaller amount of spanish armor, arms, and precious stones and items - likely from a church and / or another location. This was all confirmed, independently, by the two soldiers who claimed to have rappelled in through an air vent, as well as "lots and lots" of skeletons. So while Victorio peak may or may not have existed, and may or may not have been recovered, this is a different cache than the one Doc Noss spoke of. Or possibly Doc had the location in his story wrong, and it is the same cache. If Doc Noss had it wrong, it is not for me to say if it was accidental or on purpose. But this cache is not on Victorio peak itself, but rather a different place. I can not say if it is related in any way with any certainty. Nor can I comment about anything that was or was not on Victorio Peak itself as I simply have no knowledge.

That said if I were to guess, and a guess is all it would be, I would think Doc Noss "found" it somewhere else, in case he was followed or compromised in some way, so that in the end nobody but himself would know exactly where anything he found actually was. I know my Dad would do that, as well as most of his associates, so I see no reason Doc Noss would just up and tell the world where billions in gold he had found was at, to be stolen by anyone able to get to it. Would you?

This is all I am going to say on Victorio Peak for the moment. It should be sufficient to set the record straight where my Dad is concerned. Beyond that only, I am unconcerned about this particular cache, as I do not live in New Mexico and do not have the health at present to go there.

La Rue gold bars...... OK now this I did get a laugh from. I can confirm that Treasurehunter is related to Harvey Snow, because of this one thing he said. Something known only to my Dad and Harvey Snow, and I thought, me. Dad and Harvey DID make some "gold bars" out of lead I believe, and scribed La Rue on the top. They painted them with a spray can of gold paint, and then took a photo of them up in a desert canyon. I am not sure why they did this exactly, so it may have had something to do with a treasure magazine for all I know. But I know they are as fake as anything ever was. I remember asking him the first time to see one - and he didn't stop laughing for 10 minutes. Dad had a photo of them for years on his bedroom wall, and got a chuckle at least once a day when he would look at it. He loved making "educated idiots" look foolish. I guess they pulled something off on this one. But only Dad and Harvey Snow would have known this. Or their sons, like myself, and Treasurehunter. So I can confirm that those photos are pure BS. Pure and simple.

I don't believe Dad ever recovered anything of huge value. The life growing up, and how he lived after I left home, would in no way indicate riches. Why would he not recover something? Several. First this cache at least is on military land. If he would be caught there he would have had troubles with the MP's. So when he went in it was usually at night, and in ways that were difficult to track. Second was his age. He was 55 when I was born. 72 by the time we went back to see Dr Swearingen. With artificial knees and after surviving cancer, even by his early 60's he was not really in a position to be recovering too much of anything and covering long desert distances on foot carrying heavy weights. There are other reasons. Does this mean he absolutely found some huge wealth? If he did I never saw it with my own eyes. Does it mean he did not? No. I guess in the end it means nothing too much under the circumstances, other than whatever he might have found, remained there for others to recover in the future.

So beyond this I know nothing other than the things Dad told me privately. I am not sure I would want to reveal them all publicly for obvious reasons. I just wanted to set the record straight for whatever it might be worth to people in the years to come.

Take care all of you.


end quote of Claudes Son on the relationship between His Dad and mine

Now GOLLUM <---<< SEE THOSE CAPS ?

Who knew our Dads better ?

Oren and his new supporter " YOU "

or ,,,,

Us , their Sons ?

Remember this statement of yours concerning my Sister's muder

quote : "
Rog' is a little out there , but he3 can tell you about it "

Remeber that GOLLUM ?

You Knpow me ?

I am out there ?

did i tell you to lay off My Dad , my sister , myself and my Family ?

THAT WAS NOT A REQUEST BUD

IT WAS A COMMAND

You violate then snivel

You Trlled npot only me

but springfield

and neither of us cried to a moderator

You are like a child in an adult body

in the R>I.P thread

I took control of your emotions and you admitted you were angry

THAT , can only be done to the childish mind bud

I am out there ?

is that it

I replied

" I am crazy , yep , you're right ,, crazy like a FOX '

a Fox takes control of your mind

a crazy guy got to you

is that right ?

You were better off keeping it civil bud

I now will expose most of it .

HAHAHA Funny you say that Claude Suddreth sent Oren away with a fake story. Claude Suddreth is the person that showed Oren the cave in 1982.

Like I said before.....YOU ARE PATHETIC!

You are just a nutjob loser that has never done anything in your life. All you do is live off your dad's stories and your last name. I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that all your little groupies are just your own pathetic aliases.

No, the actual story is that after your dad spouted that cock and bull story about going into the cave of steps, Oren called him on it, until he finally admitted he had no idea where it was. JUST LIKE YOU! I gave you some vague clues and you spout off several family ranch names that have nothing to do with the cave of steps. JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE CAVE OF STEPS IS! Pathetic!

Mike

 

[treasminder2]

Thanks for your posts Roger. I've seen the upside down Omega sign you described. It was carved up high on the face of a bluff and I couldn't figure out how it tied in to the site.

Ok

I have one up a side canyon off Filmore in the Organ Mnts nm

right off to the left is a Mine

The symbol itself is up high as yours is .

it can be seen from far away

the original trail / road past the mountains in fact

it is up there to draw people to it

as they got up ther
they then found the markers that led to the mine

so
we can say that Omega was BIG so they could spot it and be drawn to it from a long way off .

It did the trick and brought them to the site of the Mine

which was La Rue's Mine

one of them .

 

[treasminder2]

HAHAHA Funny you say that Claude Suddreth sent Oren away with a fake story. Claude Suddreth is the person that showed Oren the cave in 1982.

Like I said before.....YOU ARE PATHETIC!

You are just a nutjob loser that has never done anything in your life. All you do is live off your dad's stories and your last name. I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that all your little groupies are just your own pathetic aliases.

No, the actual story is that after your dad spouted that cock and bull story about going into the cave of steps, Oren called him on it, until he finally admitted he had no idea where it was. JUST LIKE YOU! I gave you some vague clues and you spout off several family ranch names that have nothing to do with the cave of steps. JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE CAVE OF STEPS IS! Pathetic!

Mike

See Mike

I bait you

and you bite

heh

You were there in 1982 with Claude and oren ?

I was there with Dad in 1982

you heard the call ?

Dude

Just like Oren

Join the LDS due

you'll fit in with those NUTZ

Promoting ONFP now ?

Mike
get away from there

they've already got your mind

next will be your soul

and Claude showed Oren a sack of snakes right ?

oren was a Known Mole

Claude and Dad were known tricksters

You gonna be the nexy dude to crash up there in an Ultras liet

did you ever actually speak with Oren ?

I mean on phone
or in person ?

it was easy to spot , he had loose nuts

and he corralled you in ?

These stories were almost all Formulated

and Like Oren said concerning that cave he was shown " Npo Body knows whats down there "

so what makes you believe it's a genuine treasure site worth your time ?

Oren's dreams ?

Pathetic ?

Is the Kettle Black Mr. Pot ?