Victorio Peak

[spyguy]

!

Let me try a different way of proving my basic point about Doc Noss & Victorio Peak. Everyone here has probably heard about the "Nigerian Scam". If not, it goes like this: You get an urgent plea email from a guy whose name you can't pronounce in a country you know little about. Problem is, his country is in a LOT of turmoil, but it's your lucky day because he's a wealthy member of a noble family trying to flee to the US. IF you'll just email him your bank account info, he'll deposit $10 Million U.S. dollars into your bank account and upon his arrival here, he'll only withdraw $9 Million out leaving you a cool $1 Million for your troubles!
How about the BEAUTIFUL Russian girl whose just looking for a nice American guy to settle down with. Heard of her? You've exchanged several emails and photos with her and she's decided YOU'RE the guy. She's ready to meet you in person, problem is, a plane ticket from Moscow and a passport costs $1,500. BUT WAIT, she's saved $1,000 already, she just needs you to wire the other $500 to her bank account and she'll fly over to be with you quicker than you can say KGB!
NOW, let's examine Doc Noss's story in the sober light of day: He's found a cave with a HUGE amount of treasure in it. Problem is, he can't get back to it because he tried to open the cave with dynamite and darn it all, he managed to block the entrance instead. IF you'll just give him money for a truck, some equipment etc etc he's sure he can reopen it again and you'll be able to share all that loot! Charlie Ryan DID trust him and did give him money over a number of years from 1937 till 1949. Then he claims Noss came over asking for more and talking all crazy one day saying he'd shoot him if he didn't give it to him. Noss runs out to his truck to get his gun from the glove box, but Ryan is quick on the draw and kills him there before he can get it out. He owed Ryan (among others) money big time, so Ryan had a strong incentive to keep believing him and keep him alive, but he acted in self defense and the jury believed him. In short, Charlie Ryan was the classic "mark" and Doc Noss was the classic "con."
Here's another tid bit for you: "Doc" Noss was no Dr. at all, yet he mananged to practice podiatry without a license in and around New Mexico for years. Another prime example of how old Doc never let the truth get in the way of making money.
It's funny how people will buy into gov't conspiracies without any problem, but they have a difficult time accepting that one person could come up with a whopping lie of a scam to enrich themselves by bilking others!!! As far as I know, Robert Vesco is still alive and running around Cuba though. And Carlo Ponzi is still the classic textbook study of a "Ponzi Scheme."
It's time people put the Victorio Peak story to bed or at least started looking at it in a more realistic light. Noss was a FRAUD! And the only "treasure" that came out of Victorio Peak was from the pockets of people like Charlie Ryan. And into the pockets of guys like F. Lee Bailey....
HH
-spyguy

 

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[gollum]

Gee Spyguy,

Way to completely dismiss a dozen witness statements, signed affidavits, seven (7) deaths in two years (not counting Noss') of people directly related to the story, geological surveys (that agree with Doc's description of the caves), and the second group of people to find the caves (Bartlett, Fiege, Prather, and Wessel), for the White Sands Website Version!

Let's start with the geological survey conducted on Victorio Peak during Operation Goldfinder:

"Operation Goldfinder was important in that it provided high-tech proof that Victorio Peak harbored a very sizable cave. Using sophisticated ground-penetrating radar, a team from Stanford Research Institute headed by Lambert Dolphin determined that there indeed was a very large cavern situated right at the base of Victorio Peak. “It’s about where Doc Noss said it is,” Dolphin told this writer.

The geological structure of the peak is odd, according to Dolphin. Regarding the cavern, he said that “It’s an unusual geological formation, more or less a freak of nature, but it’s there.”

Dolphin is one of the many Goldfinder participants who sought to return to the site. His scientific interest was not shared by the Army, which summarily turned down his 1977 request for re-entry.

Dolphin would like to reach the big cavern, and he had the idea of lowering a remotely operated television camera through a shaft in order to see what remains in the cave described by Doc Noss as being “big enough for a freight train.”

Now, let's look at the story of the four airmen:

"Word of the Doc Noss treasure spread, and keeping people out of the area was no easy chore. In November 1958, a team of four weekend gold seekers rediscovered the hoard.

Led by U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege, the four had done extensive research on Victorio Peak, poring over old documents and records, and even traveling south into Mexico to check stories there regarding a man who has often been linked with the origin of the gold, Padre Philip La Rue.

All four men — Fiege, Thomas Berlett, Ken Prather and Milleadge Wessel — were, at the time of their find, employees at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. This writer conducted extensive interviews with Thomas Berlett. According to Berlett, the four men proceeded down a fault into the peak for about 150 feet, at which point their progress was stopped by a large boulder. They dug under it, and Berlett and Fiege moved past it for another 100 to 125 feet, coming eventually to what Berlett described as a small cavern, approximately eight feet wide by 10 or 12 feet long.

In the room were two large stacks of gold bars, each roughly six feet high, three feet wide and eight feet long. A third, smaller stack, pyramidal in shape, stood about three feet high.

Berlett and Fiege had found a different passage into Victorio Peak, leading into a different chamber.

The room had been undisturbed for so long that the dust, according to Berlett, lay several inches thick. The slightest movement stirred up a cloud. Nearly choking, the two men hastily marked their claim and made their exit.

Before leaving, both men had observed an old wooden cross on one of the walls. Berlett viewed this as substantiation for the theory that Spaniards had been responsible for stashing the gold.

In September 1961, Berlett and Fiege swore to the specifics of their discovery in detailed affidavits provided to federal officials. They also were given — and passed — lie detector tests."

See Spyguy, there is a lot more to the story than you think. The REAL evidence leans more towards there being gold there (at one time), than not.

You're going to believe whatever you want to believe, but the truth is there. Open your eyes. If you read EVERY side of the story as I have, you may just find something you didn't expect (as I did).

Here's an article about a team of UC Berkely Seismologists who conducted seismic testing of Victorio Peak, and found the same caverns as the Stanford Team.

http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=3084

I can keep throwing names and articles at you, but as long as you have a closed mind, you will never read or hear anything any of us say (and you say YOU are well read).

Best,

Mike

 

[gollum]

Oh, I know! The stories about LBJ's illegal activities, will curl your nose hairs, and send shivers down your spine.

He DID do a lot of good though! With seeing Kennedy's Civil Rights Act through, and the Voting Rights Act, and his relentless fighting of the KKK (and white supremacists in general).

But I don't believe that the good he did, came anywhere near offsetting the bad.

Like I told Oro, I will do a whole LBJ thread. It's way too much for just a post!

best,

Mike

 

[cptbil]

HAY!
How Come There's Been 1448 interested people, at this time, who have visited this topic and

NO ONE!

Has offered to take me up on my offer, that I mentioned here, awhile back, of going into the outside (the base) entrance of the PEAK !!
This is the exit that Doc's partner found, and! used once !

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Capt Bill - I would take you up on the offer, if there was a possibility that there remained some kind of treasure left to recover, but there is good reason to believe that

NOTHING :

is left up there to find! It would be a huge waste of your time and efforts my friend, to even bother to drive there to look at it. With fuel prices still so high (I don't find $2.50 a gallon "cheap") your gas money and time would be better spent in pursuit of other treasures, those that the government hasn't already stolen.

Oroblanco

 

[MSgtUSAF]

As most know I am recently retired from the USAF, well I was born into the Air Force, my father was stationed at Holloman in 64 till 72. I was going TDY there in 92 and when I told my dad he said to check out the caves on the peak if I got a chance, he then said they I probably wouldn't find anything since they were cleaned out when he was there. I asked him what was cleaned out and he said he couldn't say over the phone and would talk when I was home next time. Well when I was there I inquired on going to the area and was flat told it was off limits by the Chief of Security (my boss while I was TDY). About a year later I was home on leave and my dad asked about the peak and I told him it was off limits so no go, he then told the story of what he saw going on there, he was also and SP like me and was detailed to stand guard for vehicles being used to ferry something from the peak. He said the deuce and half's were loaded so that the tires rubbed if they hit a bump. He did not see what was loaded but the rumor was it was gold, he did sign a non disclosure statement and was told if questioned about the detail that it did not happen. Personally I don't know what was there but something was definitely taken out by the government but for some reason I don't think any FOIA docs are going to show up proving the tale one way or the other.


MSgt

 

[cptbil]

BOY!
You " AF " b] Types sure give up easy !
I wonder why the "MC" has a "Bulldog" as a Mascot ?
How about:
What do you think "Doc's" Partner was doing in that long, several miles long !
Tunnel ?
Yep!
He was carting gold bars out of the "Peak" !
He left several 70lb 60% bars about halfway out !
I'm sure that one or two of them will offset the "price" of a few gallons of gas !
( You gotta read between the lines, when you're doing research )
Plus!
The price of gas, even @ the 11 mpg, that the Jeep PRESENTLY gets, is the least of my TH'ing problems !
(How do I know this stuff ?
Well! WAY! WAY! Back, some where in these "posts", I mention that One of Doc's Grandson's is my New Mexico Partner! )
He has researched, has a couple of thousand documents, what happened to the gold !
Illegal Govt. Operation, That it was !
Oh!
Just how long do you think that a "Signed and Sealed" Non-Disclosure, of an ILLEGAL GOVT OPERATION would hold up in ANY! Court?
What Does WORK ?
One Guess!

 

[Zeitgeist_Xero]

I'd go with you Cpt Bill... and fund the gas... You send me some legit proof and private and I'll be there with gas and food money. I'm not that rich, but I love an adventure. I don't even think there would be any gold left, if there ever any was to begin with... but I'd love to explore a cave system that long (with the entrance outside of white sands missle range - as you say). I live in Arlington, TX and have been to the Cloudcroft/White Sands area plenty of times.

 

[cptbil]

Z.X. :
If you love adventure, drop me a line!
I will be out this yr. for 'bout 10-12 months!
SO! Just pick a time!
And!
Just mention what you'd like to do and I'll see if it is on my
Schedule !
BUT!
First...
You must remember, That Code of the West Rules always apply!
Code of the West # 5 or #6, I don't remember which,
# 5-6... Never Question your/a Partner's word !
"you send me some legit proof "
(your reply of 8:38:48 yesterday)
I'm afraid that most of the Information, 99.9%, that I get, on the "Peak", is/was from My Partner, Doc's Grandson!
AND!
I WOULD NEVER! :P ask him for proof of any statement.
Besides,
What kind of "Proof" would you expect there would be ?
I'd doubt that Doc's Partner has, or, would have, photo'd or signed any statement .. concerning the tunnel incident !
AND!
Even if I had any/some, I, could certainly not offhandedly, reveal it !
Several reasons why!
Until I HAVE MET AND KNOW the person, Personally!
C. of the W. # 2 .... "Do not ask for details of any treasure"
If you are or become a Trusted Partner/member, all would/will be revealed !
For all anyone knows...You're a member of some Secret Govt Dept/Agency ....
OR!
Not! so "Secret" IE: FBI, ATF, IRS, FEMA ...... who's just "snooping around"
AND!
Besides ....
Would "Cptbil", of "cptbil n Bugs", make things up ?
BUT!
I will guarantee ... If I say/said IT!
It's TRUE !
AND, OR!
I CAN PROve !
EVERY Word !
I havefriends in Arizona
Whom have been my close FRIENDS!
For MANY, Many, DECADES!
A person does not gain that kind of Trust/friendship by being a BS'er !
In This CASE !
There are going to be times,
When "Your Very LIFE" will depend on your Partner's Integrity !
I'm SURE :P that you wouldn't/don't want to be out there facing that kind of situation with anybody of lesser character !
I! Survived, 30! months IN! Combat!
In Vietnam,
Because, I knew that the MARINE on my left or right was there and That I DIDN'T have to "Sweat it" !!
Yes!
Some of my trips do/have involved this kind of situation(s)!
I have been shot at ! (Az/NM)
I have Almost been in a "Draw Down" ! (So. Az.)
Threatened w/armed violence (NV., AZ. (from out of state TH'ers)
SO!
If, you mean your Statement : "I love an adventure" !
I'd Be More Than GLAD to have you come along !
I, definately, have a shortage of Partners!

 

[cptbil]

" ADVENTURE(s) comes with an Element of DANGER " :P


Why else would My Constant Partner be a 120lb Doberman and I, be wear'n a snubnose 44 mag ?

 

[Zeitgeist_Xero]

CPTBIL - I belive you when you say there is 'adventure' involved... and that's enough to keep my interest! 8)

 

[cptbil]

THE OFFER !
Is still open.
I have tentatively set the date for "The Recovery" @ Jan. 10th '07 ....
That date should give you and any other interested party(s) Time ? to make arrangements.
Interested?
"Reply" or "PM/Email" me & I'll send you my Phone Number.
OK!
TH'ers. Here's your Chance !

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=gollum
http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=3084
***************
Sheeh Mike, the engineers found "some" evidence of human occupation. including "dozens of skeleons"? Frankly I would say positive evidence no?

Tropical Tramp

 

[cptbil]

Z.X. :
Can I count on you for the "Silver Tunnel Recovery", in Jan (10th) ?
I have two friends, who will be there, One from Phx., (a Special Forces Instructor) One from Tucson.
Can I count on you to meet up with us ??

Please Remember ...
This is A! DANGEROUS AREA

IT WILL BE AN ADVENTURE !

That much you can count on!



note:
I have more than enough weapons, in case you don't own any!

 

[cptbil]

Model T :
You are welcome to come along to The Victorio Peak Tunnel !
Do you live in Las Cruces, or ?
What is your schedule ...
Roughly,
Mine is, on the 15th, Lv. here for NM., .. arr: E.P., around the, 17th.
Stop, in E.P. to visit a friend...
Drive to Hatch/Arrey, passing thru L.C.
I am planning to be out in NM., Las Cruces, Hatch, or, Arrey, this month, sometime after the 17/18th !
If!
You can send me a phone number, we'll confirm all of this with, some more (details) !
Or!
For Identification Purposes, I can send you mine!

Got a good FLASHLIGHT !
and lots of batteries?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bill only use the diode ones, loooooong battery life and never have a boken or burned out filament. A must for cave exploring.

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

Bill only use the diode ones, loooooong battery life and never have a boken or burned out filament. A must for cave exploring.

Tropical Tramp

I completely agree. I have an LED headlight, as well as Pelikan Flashlights. I even have an LED BlackLight (REALLY good for finding scorpions at night or in caves).

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=gollum
I completely agree. I have an LED headlight, as well as Pelikan Flashlights. I even have an LED BlackLight (REALLY good for finding scorpions at night or in caves).
Mike
****************

HI You fry. broil, boil or eat em alive Gollum?

Tropical tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Jose,
You are really a rare gem!
Cheers,
Doc
***************

Morning mi buddy DOC, coffee? -------------------------\_(_)p_ (_)P _/?

Incidentally, my Wife says that also, but in unprintable terms?? sigh.


Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Doc: Jamaican or Honduran limes? Sweet varieties or the tangy ones?

\_@@@@_/

Tropical Tramp