Video 4 - The Peralta Stone Maps with Frank Augustine

[RG1976]

Here's a picture from the Arizona Memory Project of the
Queen Creek bridge during construction. I believe this is the same bridge area but could be the one further west. Date of this photo is 1955.

View attachment 1167031

You never cease to amaze me with your research - thank you so much! This really helps!

 

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[RG1976]

Loved the video and good to see you and Frank hooking up - he's a heck of a source to take you to some pretty cool places!



There's a ton of information out there that's been photographed and talked about over the years. Somehiker and I spent a half day wandering around the same spot you and Frank did and shared photos and discussion about it either here or another forum. There ain't much that hasn't been talked about when it comes to the LDM .

Here's the only one I took with my camera in 2011 - I took several with Wayne's camera so has some more if he reads this thread. I don't remember for sure if we could ever get to a spot where we could see the Needle or not - Wayne may remember or have a photo if we did.

View attachment 1167032

Hey Paul!!

Thank you for the compliment — I really appreciate it!

When you were out at the site, what did you think? I am still unsure on those "holes". I will admit — being at the site — and finding everything we did — it definitely gave me a reason to pause. Prior to that — I'm not sure I believed in the stone maps at all.

I spent a considerable amount of time tonight on the phone with Gary Cundiff and he has a lot of very valid points to offer — discrediting the stone maps .

What did you think of the holes? Graves? Dig sites? Excavation sites?

We will be returning there in the next few days — with a very well-known "old-timer" and hope to find possibly a few more relics. If not — we still have the intention to continue to explore the legend behind that particular site — as well as another site that many believe is where Tumlinson found the maps

When will you be in town again? Frank and I would love to take you out on one of our adventures :-)

Thanks for posting your picture, to substantiate Frank and I's findings!

 

[sgtfda]

I must say Ryan is a joy to work with. We complement each other. He has a rare talent and makes for a excellent search partner. Has a very good eye for things. I'm looking forward to additional videos. A future search with detectors may turn up some things. When I detect I search every square inch. A habit from my crime scene days. I find it best to keep a open mind on projects like this. Ryan agrees. When you start finding items that could connect with a legend it makes for a interesting search. I like to do my homework first. Check out a area then go over it with the proper equipment. What Ryan and I find will be presented and everyone can form their own opinion. As with any search of this type you will not always find things. But it great when you do. I have some great sites for the future and I know Ryan has some search areas also in mind.

 

[DiggerGal]

Ryan and Frank,
Simply put: Awesome! Thank you for sharing not only your thoughts and sight but some great logical questions as well.
I am not a prospector, but absolutely addicted to Metal Detecting and chasing history with debunking questions, solutions and possible answers.
I pondered the idea that you stated about "wishing you had a drone to view the circular pattern from above". Have you looked at USGS arial photographs and cross referenced them with the most current GE?
I'm not a big believer in GE other than its cool to view places of interest to get an "idea" of a route....however, I don't believe that anyone can Solve a mystery with GE as their only source. I agree with you Ryan, it takes boots on the ground, sweat on the brow and the use of all of our physical senses to absorb everything presenting itself.
Great Job on this presentation, you have delivered more than Narration....in fact, I am sure, you have sparked in some and rekindled in others; There are many truths behind the Legends of the Superstitions.
Tina

 

[Oroblanco]

DiggerGal - I like your dog, you got the right kind for your work!

 

[DiggerGal]

DiggerGal - I like your dog, you got the right kind for your work!

I see that we love the same breed! She is my heart and soul...and acts all kinds of crazy stuff that will make you roll laughing!
Thank you Oroblanco!!!

 

[somehiker]

View attachment 1167191

Hal,

The exact location of where the Stone Maps were discovered has been disputed time and time again. There are no less than 5 different stories and locations where different people have said Travis Tumlinson (or others) actually found the Stone Maps. Travis Tumlinson found the Stone Maps in the year 1956, that much has been established and is not in dispute. Many of the things Travis Tumlinson allegedly said about finding the Stone Maps were actually said not by him, but by others on his behalf. Things like stopping to get a better view of Weaver's Needle and stopping at that spot to relieve himself, among others. The "Tumlinson map" has had things drawn and added to it by others over the years depending on which or who's copy you might have seen.

Any search of the area believed to be the place Tumlinson found the maps must first establish the exact place he actually found them. A map is said to have been used / drawn by Travis Tumlinson with an x marking the spot where he stopped along a highway and found the Stone Maps. Some have stated this Tumlinson map is hand drawn, others have said he used a topo map. The map is neither hand drawn nor a topo map.

The map allegedly used by Tumlinson, and allegedly marked with an x by Tumlinson, is a part of a Pinal County Water resource and management map for the Queen Creek, Apache Junction, Florence Junction, .... district. The map was designed to show and highlight creeks, drainages, ponds, natural tanks, stock tanks and wells. The map is dated 1969.

Matthew

Matthew:

In the absence of Travis Tumlinson's manuscript, I consider this account from Robert Tumlinson, as reported by Bert Love in his letter to Richard Peck April 12,1965 as being the best information we currently have as to the dates, location, and circumstances re: the finding of the Tumlinson stones.

from Gary Cundiff's website:

View attachment Bert Love to R.Peck Apr 12 1965.bmp

 

[Hal Croves]

Matthew:

In the absence of Travis Tumlinson's manuscript, I consider this account from Robert Tumlinson, as reported by Bert Love in his letter to Richard Peck April 12,1965 as being the best information we currently have as to the dates, location, and circumstances re: the finding of the Tumlinson stones.

from Gary Cundiff's website:

View attachment 1167263

"...he discovered the brick sticking out of the ground"
I think that you may have something worth looking at in that image somehiker. This rock looks unlike all the other stones in your photographs. Please tell us that you have that location marked because on your next trip out, I think that you should have another go at it. Or, if you are so inclined, perhaps Frank and Ryan can video the stone on their next trip out. Would that be something. A real discovery and recovery captured on film.
Ya never know!

 

[sgtfda]

Tina it's apparent you have the soul of a treasure hunter. As you know the greatest thrill is digging a target and finding something unexpected. Thank you by the way. You understand!

 

[sgtfda]

I know exactly where that wash is Wayne. It's a bit overgrown now and I had shorts on that day. I'll take a closer look on our next visit. I can grab the brick for you for your pack if you so desire.

 

[sgtfda]

At my prospecting club meeting they pulled one on me. They all dressed up in my show outfit. Hats, cigars and glasses. My buddy the Ringmaster from the Digger show participated. I was surprised to say the least.

 

[Cubfan64]

Hey Paul!!

Thank you for the compliment — I really appreciate it!

When you were out at the site, what did you think? I am still unsure on those "holes". I will admit — being at the site — and finding everything we did — it definitely gave me a reason to pause. Prior to that — I'm not sure I believed in the stone maps at all.

I spent a considerable amount of time tonight on the phone with Gary Cundiff and he has a lot of very valid points to offer — discrediting the stone maps .

What did you think of the holes? Graves? Dig sites? Excavation sites?

We will be returning there in the next few days — with a very well-known "old-timer" and hope to find possibly a few more relics. If not — we still have the intention to continue to explore the legend behind that particular site — as well as another site that many believe is where Tumlinson found the maps

When will you be in town again? Frank and I would love to take you out on one of our adventures :-)

Thanks for posting your picture, to substantiate Frank and I's findings!

Hi Ryan - I've never really been much "into" the Stone Maps for a whole bunch of reasons - too many to really bother going into and boring everyone. About the only interest I have in them is pretty much the same as Garry's - who made them and why, but I doubt those questions will ever be completely answered.

Suffice to say I don't want to spend my entire life trying to decipher or track down where the Stone Maps may lead when I don't see convincing evidence that they're an authentic treasure map. The fact that every year a few people "solve" them and each solution leads to a different place and those who solve them are 100% convinced they have the right spot says a lot to me. On top of all that, even if I did believe they led the way to a treasure of some sort, there's nothing that says there isn't another part to them still hidden somewhere that is the key to the whole puzzle. A person could spend an entire lifetime trying to put together a puzzle, but if there's a piece missing, it'll always remain unfinished. Once I found out Travis was at least mildly interested in making carvings/etchings of pictures in stone, that tossed up a huge red flag to me as well - I don't believe in coincidences.

Just too many if's for me to be interested in.

As far as the location goes. If I had to guess, I would say that at some point in time, someone with either hired hands or a mechanical excavator dug those holes in that area - probably a treasure hunter that knew the Tumlinson/Stone Map story and thought they had found some sign that said "dig here" and gave it a shot.

Personally I think they're too deep to be graves. Human nature tell me that a person wouldn't bother digging any deeper in that rock infested ground out there than they had to if they were burying a corpse.

As Matthew stated, there are several locations that are reported as the place Travis found those stones - in the end, who knows?

If I make it back out this year, it will be later this fall and probably only be a short visit. I have some things I have to follow up on at the ASU library and will probably only have time for 1 hike/exploration and it's still up in the air if I'll make it out again.

Thanks for the offer to join you and Frank though - I'll have to consider that if I get out there again next year. Time is going by so fast - I have dreams often these days of my mom packing a lunch for me when I was 8 or 9 and taking off for the day with nothing more than my .22, a jackknife and my backpack to explore the fields and woods back behind where I grew up. I'm sure if I visited there again I'd see that the woods was no more than a half mile away and the creek is just a trickle of runoff water, but back then I felt like I was in another world for the day away from all human contact and on my own to survive and explore. Sometimes I wake up and for just the briefest of moments I think I'm still 8 or 9 - those are some of the best memories I have. Next month I turn 51 and while life is far from over, it's tough not to wish I could start it all over again - even if I didn't change a thing .

 

[Azquester]

Well, I watched the Video.

The Narrator talked a bit like he was tired or had a hangover from to much beer the night before.

I have been to that exact stone map dig site with the large grave like holes. It was the first place I searched for the origin of the stone maps many years ago.

I see the comparisons with the stone map letters and Travis's carvings. Looks to me like he was obsessed with the stone maps so he carved symbols similar. I really don't think he knew the letter "A" used an angled cross bar for a pointer which is common Spanish Treasure map lettering. I really don't think he knew Portuguese and Spanish slang which is what's on the maps.

Where is the Fifth Map?

I knew of the existence of the fifth map before I heard it was originally found by him. That's the map that explains the "Key" which I know is a keystone for reading the final in the field map. You see with freemasonry everything is another map.


The site.

The dig holes and artifacts Frank found I have seen and picked up myself. I picked up the same ore sample while I was there! The holes were created by a back hoe which would have left many scratches or even broke that piece off the fifth map. I believe Travis may have used a back hoe and almost destroyed the fifth map and Frank has the corner of what was once the fifth map.

The Needle.

You can't see the Needle from there it's true. But Travis said he was just trying to see the Needle from that location he may not have seen it and peed on that first map which would explain the yellowing.

As for the Narrator's assertion that no one has actually found a Treasure with the use of the Maps all I can say is the Maps are not Treasure Maps. They were for finding Mines which may contain Gold Ore. It was common practice to leave processed Ore in abandoned or used mines depending on which as easier for the miners. As per Ron Quinn's treasure find in Southern AZ.

I have a site wear the stone maps come into play very nicely. Even has a cut insert in solid rock that the heart stone would fit perfectly.
It's right next too the keystone which has to be removed for the map to be "Viewed".

Once that is done you wait for the right time of day and year for reading the map by act of the Sun and Shadow.

The mines nearby have very rich silver and gold ore. I showed samples on another thread on here for hard rock mining.

I plan to film it later this year before and after I remove the "Keystone".

Will I give it up for people to see?

Probably not.

This is not the proper venue for posting real finds and discoveries.

But it is good if you like hearing long tales of yesterday.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hi Ryan - I've never really been much "into" the Stone Maps for a whole bunch of reasons - too many to really bother going into and boring everyone. About the only interest I have in them is pretty much the same as Garry's - who made them and why, but I doubt those questions will ever be completely answered.

Suffice to say I don't want to spend my entire life trying to decipher or track down where the Stone Maps may lead when I don't see convincing evidence that they're an authentic treasure map. The fact that every year a few people "solve" them and each solution leads to a different place and those who solve them are 100% convinced they have the right spot says a lot to me. On top of all that, even if I did believe they led the way to a treasure of some sort, there's nothing that says there isn't another part to them still hidden somewhere that is the key to the whole puzzle. A person could spend an entire lifetime trying to put together a puzzle, but if there's a piece missing, it'll always remain unfinished. Once I found out Travis was at least mildly interested in making carvings/etchings of pictures in stone, that tossed up a huge red flag to me as well - I don't believe in coincidences.

Just too many if's for me to be interested in.

As far as the location goes. If I had to guess, I would say that at some point in time, someone with either hired hands or a mechanical excavator dug those holes in that area - probably a treasure hunter that knew the Tumlinson/Stone Map story and thought they had found some sign that said "dig here" and gave it a shot.

Personally I think they're too deep to be graves. Human nature tell me that a person wouldn't bother digging any deeper in that rock infested ground out there than they had to if they were burying a corpse.

As Matthew stated, there are several locations that are reported as the place Travis found those stones - in the end, who knows?

If I make it back out this year, it will be later this fall and probably only be a short visit. I have some things I have to follow up on at the ASU library and will probably only have time for 1 hike/exploration and it's still up in the air if I'll make it out again.

Thanks for the offer to join you and Frank though - I'll have to consider that if I get out there again next year. Time is going by so fast - I have dreams often these days of my mom packing a lunch for me when I was 8 or 9 and taking off for the day with nothing more than my .22, a jackknife and my backpack to explore the fields and woods back behind where I grew up. I'm sure if I visited there again I'd see that the woods was no more than a half mile away and the creek is just a trickle of runoff water, but back then I felt like I was in another world for the day away from all human contact and on my own to survive and explore. Sometimes I wake up and for just the briefest of moments I think I'm still 8 or 9 - those are some of the best memories I have. Next month I turn 51 and while life is far from over, it's tough not to wish I could start it all over again - even if I didn't change a thing .

Cubfan64,
You are going to be 51 years young and everyone knows that 51 is the new 40.
As far as the stones go, I agree completely. Even if they lead to nothing more than chasing ones tail, identifying the author is for me the holy grail. I feel that Halseth is a good candidate but that opinion is not etched in stone. Not yet at least. Many things point to him and even his grandson thinks that it would have been something that he MAY/could have done. That still doesn't make them a hoax. I think that something happened on that expedition into the range that returned Ruth's skull. I just can pin it down.

We are still waiting for the Treasure Chest stone creation date. Hint, hint Gary... Again, if it was carved after the 1948 (another if) discovery date, then chances are that Travis did not carve them. I am inclined to believe that he did not carve them. If I were to pull off such a hoax, and I am more than capable of it, I would want to get my work as far away from me as possible. Guilt, shame, whatever you want to call it, people detach themselves from their misdeeds. Travis does not seem to have behaved that way. In fact, the stones seem to have been an obsession with him. Only a self loving artist would have held onto something so brilliant. Just my opinion.

About your longing for better times. It's a strange phenomenon, our struggle to hold onto the past. When one lets go of those thoughts and feelings, they become free to embrace the moment, to think about what comes next, and how to stand tall in the face death when it finally arrives (our common bond).

"Every day above the ground is a good one".

 

[Hal Croves]

Well, I watched the Video.

The Narrator talked a bit like he was tired or had a hangover from to much beer the night before.

I have been to that exact stone map dig site with the large grave like holes. It was the first place I searched for the origin of the stone maps many years ago.

I see the comparisons with the stone map letters and Travis's carvings. Looks to me like he was obsessed with the stone maps so he carved symbols similar. I really don't think he knew the letter "A" used an angled cross bar for a pointer which is common Spanish Treasure map lettering. I really don't think he knew Portuguese and Spanish slang which is what's on the maps.

Where is the Fifth Map?

I knew of the existence of the fifth map before I heard it was originally found by him. That's the map that explains the "Key" which I know is a keystone for reading the final in the field map. You see with freemasonry everything is another map.


The site.

The dig holes and artifacts Frank found I have seen and picked up myself. I picked up the same ore sample while I was there! The holes were created by a back hoe which would have left many scratches or even broke that piece off the fifth map. I believe Travis may have used a back hoe and almost destroyed the fifth map and Frank has the corner of what was once the fifth map.

The Needle.

You can't see the Needle from there it's true. But Travis said he was just trying to see the Needle from that location he may not have seen it and peed on that first map which would explain the yellowing.

As for the Narrator's assertion that no one has actually found a Treasure with the use of the Maps all I can say is the Maps are not Treasure Maps. They were for finding Mines which may contain Gold Ore. It was common practice to leave processed Ore in abandoned or used mines depending on which as easier for the miners. As per Ron Quinn's treasure find in Southern AZ.

I have a site wear the stone maps come into play very nicely. Even has a cut insert in solid rock that the heart stone would fit perfectly.
It's right next too the keystone which has to be removed for the map to be "Viewed".

Once that is done you wait for the right time of day and year for reading the map by act of the Sun and Shadow.

The mines nearby have very rich silver and gold ore. I showed samples on another thread on here for hard rock mining.

I plan to film it later this year before and after I remove the "Keystone".

Will I give it up for people to see?

Probably not.

This is not the proper venue for posting real finds and discoveries.

But it is good if you like hearing long tales of yesterday.

Bill,
Will you explain to us just how a rock cleaved in the late 1940's underwent hundreds of years of rounding off, underground and protected from the elements? Frank, Ryan, and Dave apparently have no explanation for it yet feel that it may be something important. Ideas without reason or logic often are incorrect.

I think you may be correct about old mines and stored ore waiting to be had.; )
Thanks Bill.

 

[RG1976]

Victor & Bill,

Your antagonistic comments are becoming out of hand - rude and child-like. From Bill accusing me of being drunk / hungover during my narration to Victor calling the police department and trying to post confidential information about the death threat I received here on T-Net. It's ridiculous and offensive.

The intention of my videos, even the latest one with Frank, is to present information for the viewer to decide. I am not a treasure hunter - I have never promoted myself as such. I am fascinated by legend and enjoy telling stories of legend via video in regard to the Superstitions and many more sites in the future.

Victor - you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the rock we found. I am unsure why? In our video, if you would have paid attention, Frank posed a question - and said "could this be part of the stone maps?" It was a question...not a statement. We have never said "this is 100% a part of the stone maps" - we said, "look what we found and what do you guys think?"

I will continue to report each one of your attempts to derail my threads - make light of my character - the characters of my friends - or people I work with - to the moderators. Hal, you've already been banned - and Bill has received multiple warnings.

You are absolutely welcome to be a part of conversations, and we would all enjoy that, but making snide / rude / attacking comments that have nothing to do with the intention of this thread - but my personal safety or integrity will not be allowed.

Both of you two have been on my ignore list for quite some time - however, I am thankful for the friends that look out for me, on this forum, and alert me to your shenanigans and attempts to get a rise out of me.

I don't have the intention of responding to either of you again and I politely ask you to be mature and respectful going forward.

Thank you....

 

[azdave35]

Bill,
Will you explain to us just how a rock cleaved in the late 1940's underwent hundreds of years of rounding off, underground and protected from the elements? Frank, Ryan, and Dave apparently have no explanation for it yet feel that it may be something important. Ideas without reason or logic often are incorrect.

I think you may be correct about old mines and stored ore waiting to be had.; )
Thanks Bill.

hal..are you a psychic?..how do you know we dont have an explanation ?...i cant speak for ryan and frank but i dont give a rats rump about that rock..as i've stated before i'm positive those stone maps are forgeries...i dont sit around and waste time trying to figure out a rock...unless it has gold in it...lol

 

[azdave35]

Victor & Bill,

Your antagonistic comments are becoming out of hand - rude and child-like. From Bill accusing me of being drunk / hungover during my narration to Victor calling the police department and trying to post confidential information about the death threat I received here on T-Net. It's ridiculous and offensive.

The intention of my videos, even the latest one with Frank, is to present information for the viewer to decide. I am not a treasure hunter - I have never promoted myself as such. I am fascinated by legend and enjoy telling stories of legend via video in regard to the Superstitions and many more sites in the future.

Victor - you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the rock we found. I am unsure why? In our video, if you would have paid attention, Frank posed a question - and said "could this be part of the stone maps?" It was a question...not a statement. We have never said "this is 100% a part of the stone maps" - we said, "look what we found and what do you guys think?"

I will continue to report each one of your attempts to derail my threads - make light of my character - the characters of my friends - or people I work with - to the moderators. Hal, you've already been banned - and Bill has received multiple warnings.

You are absolutely welcome to be a part of conversations, and we would all enjoy that, but making snide / rude / attacking comments that have nothing to do with the intention of this thread - but my personal safety or integrity will not be allowed.

Both of you two have been on my ignore list for quite some time - however, I am thankful for the friends that look out for me, on this forum, and alert me to your shenanigans and attempts to get a rise out of me.

I don't have the intention of responding to either of you again and I politely ask you to be mature and respectful going forward.

Thank you....

ryan...any attacks on your videos on this forum are done out of jealousy....99% of the folks here like and look forward to your videos....the other 1% are just angry because they didnt think of it first

 

[sgtfda]

Paul one day we will long for what we do now. That last hike or search where things are pure and adventure is at hand.
The world is full of toxic hateful people. We need to escape and recharge. Just maybe win a gold nugget.
For those who cannot escape physically for one reason or another Ryan and I are creating these videos. The best feeling in the world is getting behind the wheel and heading out on a adventure. You see it's all in our mind. For some Google Earth is their escape. For others Tnet. A dream of finding gold. Gold that will end all our problems. Though it would only bring more. For others it just the challenge.
So if you are a toxic hateful person reflect and allow others their escape. Life is too short.

 

[releventchair]

You got it Sarge.
For those who have heard my brief desert account my apologies for repeating it.
For those who don't like it. Oh well.
In the early seventies around the end of my preteen years during a couple days in blowing sand we were pinned down in the Az. desert.
Probably to get rid of me I was told there were gold bars "out there".
Being someone from the eastern forests the truck and camper were the only thing familiar.
What was found was not gold bars but the desert.
In later years the Lost Dutchman was read of with interest and when giving a book about it to a relative visiting from there was told to save my shekels and visit.
Got the shekels but it cost a leg eventually.
Never being one for living vicariously the feeling of unfinished business makes following Dutchman threads hard to resist despite the annoyance of arm chairing them.
What Ryan brings to the table,(and I'm not discounting those who offer him encouragement and "help") is that new guy innocence I felt in the desert.
Not case hardened yet or ready to butt heads at slights,l.o.l..
It is about perspective and letting a guy run his course and come to his own conclusions if any.
Sometimes in some endeavors the new folks really are the ones having fun if those exposed somehow take the fun out of it for themselves. And some do, then think no one else should be any different.
That Eden, "out there"; is different for all of us.
And as Sarge alludes ,one hunt will be our last.
What's going to be the best of it all lookin back,the scent after a rain; or broken rock?