Video - Adventures in the Superstition Wilderness

[RG1976]

That's the Ore I saw on unsolved mysteries in the late seventies! Scott was the old guy that died out there.

No - no - no - no. lol.

Scott Wolters is the host of "America Unearthed" - which just completed another season on H2.

He isn't dead - he's very much alive.

Where do you come up with this stuff, Bill?

 

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[captain1965]

Did Waltz have a mine in the Superstition Mountains? Well.. Whatever he said drove a few locals into those mountains searching for the rest of their lives. What clues are true? We will know when the treasure is found. Until then we do know Ryan was in that mountain range and is searching for the truth and I respect his efforts!

 

[UncleMatt]

The lure of finding something valuable and becoming instantly wealthy is very seductive, especially to those who don't have much to begin with. People often cling to such ideas, even in the face of evidence showing there is little realistic hope for that ever occurring.

 

[captain1965]

True. And many search for gold first and truth second. They only take the path that they "believe" leads to riches. They choose to ignore any path that may lead them away from their own ideas. A good hunter suspends his ego and hunts for truth instead of gold.

 

[RG1976]

Did Waltz have a mine in the Superstition Mountains? Well.. Whatever he said drove a few locals into those mountains searching for the rest of their lives. What clues are true? We will know when the treasure is found. Until then we do know Ryan was in that mountain range and is searching for the truth and I respect his efforts!

My honest opinion on this:

Yes - in the past 6 weeks Ive been a member here, I have logged quite a few miles in the SWA. Ive learned a lot.

Did Waltz have a mine? I don't know....

The basis of the story goes something like this, interpreted with a bit of devil's advocate.

1) The Peralta's had mines in the SWA that caught the attention of the Natives that resulted in the extermination of the majority of their family.

2) Waltz made friends with one surviving member - was taken to the mine and mined it heavily. (except, it seems his financial lifestyle didn't change to equal the gold he found)

3) Folks claim that Waltz killed people to protect his interests in the mine, perhaps even his nephew.

4) Waltz supposedly bailed out Julia Thomas' business, sent his sister hundreds of thousands of dollars - but kept a big bag o' gold under his bed, which was never robbed at gun point. (what did he do with the gold when he left to go mining again? This was, in fact, the wild wild west)

4) Waltz gets pnemonia (but doesn't use the gold he found to hire in the best doctors to save / help him) and dies on a deathbed where he gave clues to a woman that eventually changed them all and is now known as a fraudster. Waltz was also buried in a "humble" grave - that doesn't beget the graves of other people that died that were worth a lot of money. The other person that folks claim to be there is the same guy (Holmes) that Waltz supposedly pulled a gun on for following him, but now that he is dying, gave all his clues to his "stalker" - which legend says was totally hammered drunk at the time.

5) If Holmes was there, his son wrote a manuscript about Waltz, which he denies ever writing or knowing anything about. This manuscript suddenly appeared in the ASU library and was published into a book by Thomas Glover.

6) The book published by Glover has a lot of great information, if accurate. If it was accurate, The Holmes family sure didn't find the mine - so how accurate was it?

7) Some stone maps were found on the side of the freeway by a guy on vacation that stopped to relieve himself, that have been critically reviewed. The majority feel they are fraudulent, but there are big proponents into their validity as well. Because they were found in the area close to the SWA - people automatically assume they "must" be in relation to the LDM - but as of today, are unable to be decoded by anyone.

8) Upwards of 10,000+ people have searched the SWA for the mine - and as of today hasn't been publicly announced as being found. (except, there are excuses that maybe it has been found by someone who didn't want to say they found it)

9) Almost all areas in the South West USA have legends that revolve around Spanish treasure, attacked by the Native's, the Natives buried the treasure only to be found by an "older white male" that claims to have made millions...but then dies shortly there after - to be lost forever.

10) Hundeds - maybe millions, have been made keeping this legend alive. It started with Julia Thomas, who sold her story to Bicknell and published it in the San Francisco Chronicle - which set off one of the biggest treasure legends in the country.

11) A vast majority of people know exactly where the LDM is - because they found it on Google Earth - but have never stepped foot into the state of Arizona, or at a minimum the Superstition Range.

12) Countless clues are available to search on the internet, that people will say are legitimate clues left by the Dutchman. Most people will align themselves to the clues that best suit their ideas.

If I missed anything - let me know. But so far, that is what I have learned in the past few weeks.

 

[captain1965]

Maybe Waltz kelp his mine a secret because of the Peralta/Reavis land grant case which was in court at the time. The grant not only includes the Superstition Mountains, but also Waltz's land in Phoenix. Was Waltz waiting for this trial to finish before making claim? He must have known about this trial! Maybe that is the reason why he only mined enough to get by..

 

[RG1976]

Maybe Waltz kelp his mine a secret because of the Peralta/Reavis land grant case which was in court at the time. The grant not only includes the Superstition Mountains, but also Waltz's land in Phoenix. Was Waltz waiting for this trial to finish before making claim? He must have known about this trial! Many that is the reason why he only mined enough to get by..

I could fully understand keeping the mine a secret. If that were the case, how did he not cause suspicion by sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to his sister and bailing out Julia Thomas' business (if that is even true). To most, he should have been just as broke as the rest of the prospectors in the general area. Broke people that start showing large amounts of gold .... that is reason for people to start questioning.

It would only take one jealous person, which I'm sure there were many, that would report him to "someone". I believe that is human nature.

 

[captain1965]

I'm not sure about the sister story. Having not seen any evidence. As far as helping Julia, it didn't take much gold. My guess is the risk of his having gold in the small town of Phoenix getting out didn't outway his need to help a friend. My opinion.

 

[RG1976]

I'm not sure about the sister story. Having not seen any evidence. As far as helping Julia, it didn't take much gold. My guess is the risk of his having gold in the small town of Phoenix getting out didn't outway his need to help a friend. My opinion.

Yes. I could see that as being reasonable as well. Like you, I haven't seen any evidence of the money being sent to his sister - but a lot of folks cling on to that as "proof" he had gold.

The Julia Thomas business - is there any documentation that shows her business was suffering - then all of a sudden came a bailout?

If true - it's too bad she sensationalized her benefactor in the end and ruined her reputation in the process

 

[captain1965]

I haven't seen any evidence of him helping Julia only stories. It seems she was upset after selling her things to fund her one month expedition into the mountains finding nothing. Plus she believed Waltz gave Holmes the gold under his death bed. She sold her story and maps to reconcile her losses. Seems reasonable to believe.

 

[RG1976]

I haven't seen any evidence of him helping Julia only stories. It seems she was upset after selling her things to fund her one month expedition into the mountains finding nothing. Plus she believed Waltz gave Holmes the gold under his death bed. She sold her story and maps to reconcile her losses. Seems reasonable to believe.

Interesting. Thanks for all this information, Captain1965!

So - to make a quick timeline - Waltz (supposedly) bailed her out and kept her afloat, financially. He tells her where to find the rest of his riches on his deathbed. She goes out to find them (as I mentioned in my video) - becomes frustrated - alters the clues and sells them to the general public, after her interview with Bicknell.

Many will say that the Dutchman intentionally gave Thomas fake clues, which is why she never found anything.. Why would you give someone fake clues that you previously bailed out? If you are dead, what difference does it make? He already showed an interest in helping her out financially (supposedly) - so why the sudden change? You would only give fake information to someone you didn't care about, but yet again.....legend has it that she tended to his health til his final days.

I have also read the stories of Holmes receiving the gold - but begs the question, why give the gold to your stalker? Someone you showed an intention of killing. Also keep in mind, B. Holmes 100% denies writing the manuscript that Glover turned into a book.

The story is so convoluted. I liked the post about keeping things simple.....there is nothing about this story that is simple.

 

[captain1965]

Sounds reasonable to believe Waltz led Holmes out of his area to protect his friends. Maybe Holmes convicted Julia Waltz gave him his gold after he stole it from under his bed? Holmes was the last person to see Waltz alive. Hmmm I don't want to accuse anyone of doing bad things to old prospectors they had previously followed into the mountains searching for gold.

 

[RG1976]

Sounds reasonable to believe Waltz led Holmes out of his area to protect his friends. Maybe Holmes convicted Julia Waltz gave him his gold after he stole it from under his bed? Holmes was the last person to see Waltz alive. Hmmm I don't want to accuse anyone of doing bad things to old prospectors they had previously followed into the mountains searching for gold.

Struggling with this.

If Waltz led Holmes out of his area with a gun - to protect his friends (Julia Thomas?) - where did the transition happen to want to give this same person, Holmes, all of his gold from under his bed? That - for me - doesn't make sense. How much was that gold worth? Quite a bit, I imagine. Its also curious to me how Holmes even had friendly conversations with Waltz - given that at one time waltz pulled a gun on him. Perhaps the whole gun story and Holmes isn't true.

I haven't read, yet, that Holmes was the last person to see him alive - I thought it was Thomas....but its also entirely possible for me to have read wrong information.

 

[deducer]

IMHO Waltz was not a killer.

Waltz reportedly killed two Mexican miners. In some versions he is said to have mistook them for Indians.

There is also the disappearance of his partner, Weiser. Weiser was claimed to have been slain by Apaches, but his body was never found or located, IIRC.

In June of 1884, a man by the name of Pedro Ortega was murdered at the house of Waltz, with Waltz's shotgun. Waltz was later questioned but cleared of complicity in the murder.

 

[captain1965]

Sorry... Waltz led Holmes out of the area with false clues just before his death. In theory to protect his friends whom he was trying to direct to his mine. I believe it is possible Waltz sent Holmes on a goose chase far from Julia. Just before Waltz died his health took a bad turn. Julia went to fetch the local doctor. When leaving she reportedly saw Holmes and asked him to remain with Walt's until she returned. During this time Waltz told Holmes the whereabouts of his mine and gave Holmes the gold under his death bed. Supposedly.... Then Waltz died

 

[captain1965]

Sometime before Waltz fell ill he was traveling to his mine when he noticed Holmes following him. Waltz confronted Holmes with a gun and explained to Holmes that if he ever followed him again he would shoot Holmes.

 

[RG1976]

Okay - so...to recap.

Waltz gave Holmes the gold stash under the bed and then gave him bad clues in "exchange" for the gold. Waltz also pulled a gun on Holmes, after Holmes was caught following him (previous to his death).

Waltz gave Thomas authentic clues - which were worthless to her - then she later changed them all to sell as part of fake maps to the public.


What a mess! lol

 

[captain1965]

Okay - so...to recap.

Waltz gave Holmes the gold stash under the bed and then gave him bad clues in "exchange" for the gold. Waltz also pulled a gun on Holmes, after Holmes was caught following him (previous to his death).

Waltz gave Thomas authentic clues - which were worthless to her - then she later changed them all to sell as part of fake maps to the public.


What a mess! lol

In theory while Holmes is watching Waltz while Julia is fetching the Doctor, Holmes tries to squeeze information from Waltz. Maybe Holmes threatened Waltz while he lays sick. Maybe Holmes received false information from Jacobe. Maybe Holmes does the unthinkable just before stealing the gold under the dutchmans bed. Then Holmes convicted Julia that Waltz dies from his illness and gave him his gold. Just a theory. I would hope Holmes only witnessed his death. Who knows.

 

[captain1965]

Sorry I seem to have trouble relaying these ideas. There is such a Wed of information out there. We all have bits and pieces of truth and fiction. Does make for good conversation though. Your videos are very good. I do spend a lot of time in those mountains as well. I think it is great that you go out there with your father. My son is my hiking partner. Keep going!!!

 

[Cubfan64]

I have a friend (who shall remain nameless unless he chooses to say who he is) who offered up what I found to be a pretty plausible scenario to the whole Waltz and LDM story. Personally I found it to be a pretty decent theory as it fits in pretty well when you take into account human nature and the "keep it simple stupid" concept.

It also fits pretty well in answering a few other questions such as...

1) Why didn't Waltz file a claim on the LDM since he was known to file at least several claims in the Bradshaw mountains?
2) Why did Waltz live so frugally while living in Phoenix if he had access to a significantly valuable gold source?
3) Why would he have signed away everything he owned at one point in his life to Andrew Starrar in exchange for Andrew to care for him in his old age if he had a valuable gold source and could "buy" that kind of care or better?

Have an open mind and consider the scenario that Waltz never had a rich gold source in the Superstitions.

What if he was just a prospector all his life wandering from one new prospect area to another, collecting placer as well as some gold ore along the way from a variety of sources all his life (perhaps even some from within the Superstitions, Pinals, Goldfield and Four Peaks areas). I don't recall ever reading where the gold that was left in the candle box under his bed was all compared to one another to try to at least make a qualitative judgement as to whether it all came from the same source.

As I mentioned, at one point in his life he signed over everything he owned to Andrew Starrar in exchange for Andrew to care for him when he died - that to me signifies someone who doesn't have the means to pay for good care and also signifies someone who is afraid of being alone and uncared for in his later years.

What if he was indeed afraid of dying alone and uncared for, and at some point befriended Julia and helped her out financially with some of his "retirement" gold (maybe he actually liked her and enjoyed her company) and in the process realized that gold/$ could at least buy superficial friendship and care. Put yourself in his shoes and if you didn't have a rich gold mine, but rather had what little remained of your lifelong collection of gold and what would you do -
not a problem, just invent the story of a fabulously rich gold mine and string her and Rhiney along long enough to take care of him - especially once he got sick. if he could just convince them that it was a difficult thing to find and that he couldn't just give them good directions to it, but when he got well he would take them close to it and try to point it out, he knew they would take care of him which is ultimately what he got.

Of course this theory isn't glamorous and is actually rather disheartening to consider, and there are a few questions it may not answer but anyone with an open mind could certainly see that it's at the very least plausible and DOES answer some of the more odd mundane human nature questions that we've all wondered about, but usually just gloss over because they aren't easy to answer.

Anyways - just another theory to toss out there