Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[nobodie]

All I did was show that my copy of Gasslers book was printed in 1990 not after.

 

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[Matthew Roberts]

All I did was show that my copy of Gasslers book was printed in 1990 not after.

nobodie,

Yes and you are correct. I may have said 1995 in my one post but was just going off the top of my head trying to remember just when Robert Lee died and his sons took over the production company.
I knew Lee died shortly after Walter Gassler died but couldn't remember exactly when. Lee's death was as tragic as Walters.
Walter wrote the manuscript in 1983 from notes he had kept since the 1930's. It was in 1990 that the Gassler manuscript first appeared in print.
I have a handwritten copy of Walters original manuscript.

Matthew

 

[nobodie]

I usually don't get mixed up in loud discussions. I was just giving information about what I had.I try not to step on toes. But I do like to listen when things get hot and wild.

 

[gollum]

Old,

First, let me say that I am in no way associated with The SMHS Museum. While the how and whom of Walter Gassler's Manuscript getting to the SMHS Museum may or may not be important to each person, let me state this in unequivocal terms:

SINCE THE DAY I MET GREG DAVIS SEVERAL YEARS AGO, i HAVE NEVER FOUND HIM TO BE ANYTHING BUT POLITE, OPEN, AND HAVE NEVER FOUND HIM TO HAVE BEEN ANYTHING BUT HONEST AND VERY SHARING IN ALL OF OUR DEALINGS. I HAVE CONFERRED WITH HIM A FEW TIMES ABOUT THINGS WHICH WERE BEST SPOKEN ABOUT PRIVATELY. GREG IS ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE DEALING WITH THE LDM SAGA THAT IF HE STATES SOMETHING AS FACT, I TAKE HIM ON HIS WORD.

So, with that in mind, if he states without equivocation that the manuscript came to the museum with the permission of the author, that is good enough for me. I don't have time for lies and BS. When I catch someone in a blatant lie to me, I no longer have anything to do with them. While Bill was wrong about almost everything in his post, there is one huge disadvantage that people who live far away have; they don't know the people involved in the hunt. Most Dutch Hunters don't post online because every discussion winds up being childish and insulting. There are some people (you know who you are) that if they told me it was raining, I would look out a window to check. There are even a very few people that I trust implicitly, and there are a LOT of people that fall somewhere in between the two. The only way to know who you can trust, and who you can't is to put in the time, and get to know the people (and I don't just mean the people on TNet). If all you have to go by is what is here on TNet and Google Earth, you are at a HUGE disadvantage.

................ a quick aside here. One of the big things that Bill was wrong about was mentioning Blindbowman. While I discounted EVERYTHING about his theories, I will give him credit for some things:

1. Opposite of what Bill stated, he did all his own research. Granted, it was all via google earth, but his research was his own.

2. Unlike many people who pop up here and make extravagant claims, Blindbowman (unlike Bill) actually went into the mountains during The Rendezvous a few years ago. He was wrong, and what he found on GE was Chuck Crawford's Diggings in LaBarge Canyon. As goofy as his theories were, at least he had the cojones to show up at a Rendezvous where a bunch of people were laughing at him, and tried to prove his theories on the ground. I give him props for that.Bill seems to think less of those of us that live out of state. Funny that some of the most knowledgeable people regarding this subject DON'T live in AZ. Maybe Bill would like to express that sentiment to people like Somehiker(Connecticut I believe), maybe Roy and Beth (Dakotas). Chuck Kenworthy(Los Angeles)? Matthew Roberts has been climbing around those mountains since the 1970s. Yeah Bill, I guess Adolph Ruth would have to fall under your umbrella as well. I guess that Bill also doesn't remember members of TEAMFVR over on Feldman's Forum. A group from Silicon Valley composed of some of the smartest and most tech savvy people I have ever seen. How about Tracy Hawkins(England)? I can go on and on regarding a huge number of very smart and very rugged folks from all over the world that do their own research and come to Arizona to work out their theories. Bill hasn't a clue, and to drive the point home, one such group from Los Angeles actually found a cave containing some gold bars in the Supers many years ago (1960s I believe).

So, by insulting and dismissing everybody not from AZ, he is only showing ignorance.

Mike

 

[nobodie]

I hate to use this, but can't we all get along. In the end we are all looking for the same thing, answers to all of the legends. I don't believe we shouldn't be arguing with each other. Let's try to stick with the facts or possible facts and try to work things out. I bet when everyone gets together once a year, there are some good discussions. As much as I like a loud discussion this thread keeps getting out of hand. Maybe it should be taken down again.

 

[Oroblanco]

I hate to use this, but can't we all get along. In the end we are all looking for the same thing, answers to all of the legends. I don't believe we shouldn't be arguing with each other. Let's try to stick with the facts or possible facts and try to work things out. I bet when everyone gets together once a year, there are some good discussions. As much as I like a loud discussion this thread keeps getting out of hand. Maybe it should be taken down again.

Nobodie, we were simply responding to a rather nasty set of statements that was intended to insult and denigrate treasure hunters that do not live in AZ. As if living in some place automatically makes you an expert on it! No insults were made against that person, just pointed out how wrong and mistaken he is. He is entitled to believe whatever he likes of course, but his stock is not climbing either. One might even suspect some jealousy behind those statements about "out of staters".

I was not aware that there was any controversy about Walt Gassler's notes until Roland Gassler (or whomever was claiming to be that name) appeared with a thread now removed, claiming that they were virtually stolen from him by certain persons. This implied that they (the notes) were taken and published without consent of the author. Since Walt is dead, we can not ask him. If there is any truth to that accusation about the notes being wrongly taken, it should be settled in a court not a treasure forum. The museum has been "selling" photocopies, about at the cost of reproducing it. I seriously doubt they have made a dime from Walt Gassler's notes.

Thank you to Mike for the kind words, you stand pretty high in the Dutch hunter community amigo so I won't try to flatter you but we do appreciate your statements.

As this thread is about Walt Gassler's notes, would it be acceptable to discuss what are in those notes?

Oroblanco

 

[Azquester]

I'll give you a hint Oro.

There can be only one.

The other is fake.

And he took a backpack with a manuscript. Isn't this thread about Walter Gassler?

I was referring to the fake Roland's of this world!

I see your opinion. Then folks like Matthew Roberts and Mike McChesney don't know a thing about the lost mines of AZ, since they don't live there, but since you DO, then you are the expert? Can you tell me where this tunnel is located?
View attachment 1236693

You have a very skewed idea of what other treasure hunters do and are about. Where does it say that you must be an EXPERT to discuss these topics anyway?

Greg Davis had stated that the author had given permission for his notes to be preserved/published by the museum - can anyone confirm or disprove this?

Oroblanco

 

[nobodie]

oroblanco,
I like the idea of discussing what's in Gasslers manuscript. Walter Gassler is part of the legend in his searches for the mines. This would be a good discussion.

 

[deducer]

The one person I consider to be one of the best, if not the foremost, experts on all things Superstition isn't even from this country.

 

[Azquester]

Naw,

Don't a taker down the dust'el settle when the wind dies down!

Justa leave er a runnin shes just gettin wormed up!

I probably missed some good info!

But now, people are asking me by PM where to pay their Arizona Taxes, shease....sounds like an out of state fight club!

Oh, I forgot the first rule: Don't talk about it!

Just make those Arizona Tax checks out to your favorite charity, yourselves! Then come join the fun.

Geez... All of you guys are welcome here you know that I don't hold any fire under yer feet! I'm sure your all as equally good in your own home states as us natives are here.

It's called a:

"Home State Advantage" for those that don't know it. Kind of like digging in your own backyard?

I hate to use this, but can't we all get along. In the end we are all looking for the same thing, answers to all of the legends. I don't believe we shouldn't be arguing with each other. Let's try to stick with the facts or possible facts and try to work things out. I bet when everyone gets together once a year, there are some good discussions. As much as I like a loud discussion this thread keeps getting out of hand. Maybe it should be taken down again.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

oroblanco,
I like the idea of discussing what's in Gasslers manuscript. Walter Gassler is part of the legend in his searches for the mines. This would be a good discussion.

nobodie,

Many things in Walter's manuscript intrigue and fascinate me but few more than Walter stating that Tex Barkley told him he found Adolph Ruth dead up on Peter's Mesa and moved the body down to where it was eventually found on the slope of Black Top Mesa.

Now there is a topic filled with controversy and violently clashing opinions. Walter was serious when he told that story and whether you believe him or not there is more than a little evidence to back up what he said.

Matthew

 

[gollum]

Let me say something here about Roland Gassler. I have corresponded with him on several occasions, and I believe that he most definitely who he says he is.


He has told me the story as he knows it regarding his father and the circumstances surrounding his death. He feels his father had a heart attack, sat on that rock, and passed away. He doesn't believe there was any foul play involved (which I possibly disagree with). His father was not in the best of health, and that time period was a busy one in the Supers. The Wilderness was about to become a reality, and Crazy Jake knew his time of fleecing people out of money was almost over. He tried to chase people away from the Peters Mesa/Tortilla Mt Areas. I understand there was even some gunplay with Kenworthy's Crew. My personal theory is that while either Jake or some of his guys were roughing Gassler up, he had a heart attack and died. They took him out to the trail, and placed him on that rock so he could be found, but not around Jakes Camp. I also believe that the name Don Shade took to his grave of the person he saw on the ridge above where Gassler was found was either Jake or one of his guys that Shade knew.

Mike

 

[nobodie]

I'm not very good at discussing things but I will try. Tex told Walter that he tracked Ruth to a grove of trees and found him dead that he and a cow-hand wrapped the body in a tarp took it over the top of Black Top Mesa. Walter didn't believe him and asked why. On a previous page Tex told Walter that Dick Holmes had asked him if Tex ever came across a grove of small trees on the side of a small hill. I hope this is o.k. I left a couple of words out to shorten it.

 

[nobodie]

Is posting parts of the manuscript going to o.k.?? I don't want to offend R.W., it is his father's notes.

 

[Old]

Mike,

I can agree that face to face conversations build friendship and trust. I'm am truly glad you have the opportunity do that. I'm being sincere.

This (TNET) is a different medium of conversation. Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on how you view it) its the only venue open to some of us. These are the same questions I would ask if I were face to face. No more, no less.

We have two conflicting stories. Whether you want to admit it or not, the question of which "author" is a valid question, given the follow up narrative. I didn't solicit the comment that the "author" give permission, it was freely given. I did ask for elaboration and we were given a further narrative of potentially three different individuals that could have provided that permission. Is it wrong to inquire as to which of those is the intended permission giver? Why is that a bad question?

As to Bill's rant as to non-local interlopers..............ah.......so what. He's got a right to his opinion. Even if he's somewhat off base <g>. Bill, hint...........your local tax bill doesn't cover the Wilderness Area or the BLM land, but my Federal tax bill does. Its as much "mine" as it is "yours". Chew on that for a while. Nite, nite. <g>

 

[nobodie]

The grove of trees on the side of the small hill is a clue I don't remember any one mentioning before. Maybe a new clue that can be used.

 

[Oroblanco]

oroblanco,
I like the idea of discussing what's in Gasslers manuscript. Walter Gassler is part of the legend in his searches for the mines. This would be a good discussion.

OK great! Matthew Roberts already touched on (and Gollum as well) one of the more controversial notes, namely that Tex Barkley found Adolph Ruth's body in a different location from where it was eventually found; that he moved the body. This would have been a crime (legal) and a serious one at that, and the reasoning has been that Tex did not want a bunch of treasure hunters crawling all over his pastures, cutting fences and doing damage, keeping the livestock away from the water sources by camping too close etc. What is your opinion on this? Thanks in advance.

IMHO this is one of the strangest things in Walt's notes, and if true, shows a rather dark side of Tex Barkley, for by moving the body of a man quite probably a victim of murder, he was physically altering a murder scene and in essence, aiding and abetting the murder(ers)! This rather flies in the face of every other source on Tex Barkley as a very upright and honest rancher, not the sort to go around messing with murder victims just to prevent some fences getting cut. In fact just how much fences had Tex Barkley in that area anyway? There are some to be sure, but not so much as to make it probable that treasure hunters would be cutting it to pieces when they could either climb over or through it or just go through a gate. If it is NOT true, then was Tex pulling Walter's leg? Or what possible reason would he have admitted this to Walter? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.


Oroblanco

 

[nobodie]

You're right it was a crime scene. According to Walter, Tex said that someone put a gun to Ruth's temple and pulled the trigger. Tex believed that Ruth was sitting on a rock and the force of the gun knocked him over side ways. That's how Tex found him laying side ways. Tex said that there would be a stampede of gold hunters and that his cattle would scattered around. Most of his cows were back there.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

It has long been my contention/theory, that Ruth was killed near his camp at Willow Spring and whatever he found was discovered close by.

Gene Reynolds, who interviewed Ruth's daughter and saw artifacts in her basement that have never been brought to light for the public, told me this was the view of Weaver's Needle that Adolph Ruth was looking for:



This location is just south of Boulder Basin and a place that Ruth could have easily reached. It is described twice in Sims Ely's book as the place where Ruth's body was found. The "DelMonte Clalim" covers the saddle to the south which separates East and West Boulder Canyons.

In a ravine just south of the saddle there is a good running spring. It is difficult to reach because it's overgrown with trees and brush. It is also a huge attraction for bees. the spring is on the west side of the saddle.

It has been rumored that Brownie and William (Bill) Barkley actually found Ruth's body. I believe that may be Tex's reason for moving the body and changing the story as to how Ruth was taken into Willow Spring.

Just one man's opinion of what took place. It's unlikely that Walt Gassler was killed. Much more likely that he sat down on the boulder to catch his breath, and had a heart attack.

Since Matthew was such a good friend, did Walter try to get him to hike in with him on that fateful trip? I believe Tom and Bob were simply friendly acquaintances, but I could be wrong.


Take care,

Joe

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo'sYes,but, the other stories are less confusing for the public to understand, especially the locations ,landmarks,and motives.np