What is the definition of "no motorized equipment"?

[mytimetoshine]

Does this include battery operated devices?

 

[Seden]

As long as your talking to the "Mineral Resource Ranger" you'll get the right answer. If you just ask any Ranger you're going to get what they think they know rather than what is the rule.

I'm with you AURabbit. And I agree with old Saint Augustine "an unjust law is no a law at all".
I too feel like I'm being made a criminal and it makes me very angry being a tax paying law abiding Citizen so I will stick with the 1872 Congressional ruling until Congress repeals it.

And if it gets really bad remember to either have a buddy drop you and your equipment off or park your truck a ways away and on the other side of the street. No car=no person there and on down the road the LEO goes.

Randy-Midnight Miner in good standing.

 

[Jeff95531]

Sorry MM, my experience is "Don't ask, Don't tell". I was outright lied to by the FS locally. And, as I've said before, I won't go out with anything that I'm not prepared to have seized. Working both sides, I've found more success with beg for forgiveness rather than ask for permission. That said, there is no substitute for research and paperwork to cover your a** when the inevitable happens.

Kevin, I agree with you but putting my 12 volt highbanker up to test them on it? No way!

Sidvail, I prospect (small scale test spots...using hand tools, classifiers and panning) covertly as possible year round and have "gotten away with it" even tho there is a "season" for it. In fact, I've seen no FS or other LEO's at any time...which is the way I like it. So...I keep it low key and so far, so good.

 

[mytimetoshine]

So lets get to the bottom of this. Its seems to me( a newb) that we all agree the rules are wack. Down right un american. It also seems that there really is not heavy enforcement as of yet. So ....if one were to be caught " breaking" the rules what are the consequences? I would guess possibly seizure of property but what about the fine? What would the typical 1st offender fine be? Not that im planning on "offending" just for arguments sake

 

[Jeff95531]

I'm not sure on the fines but be careful what you sign for (not that a signature is required, cuz it's not). Some citations require you to appear in the court of jurisdiction (read many miles from you...usually). Other citations allow you to mail it in. Get this part straight because if you are required to appear and don't, a warrant is issued for your arrest.

Fun times huh?

 

[mytimetoshine]

I'm not sure on the fines but be careful what you sign for (not that a signature is required, cuz it's not). Some citations require you to appear in the court of jurisdiction (read many miles from you...usually). Other citations allow you to mail it in. Get this part straight because if you are required to appear and don't, a warrant is issued for your arrest.

Fun times huh?

I dont live far....i just dont see them being able to enforce it. How many rangers are there ? Very few. What are they gonna do. Toss you in jail? I personally believe they would rather bust poachers and meth labs, im sure most of themhave no interest in busting an honest american with a high banker. Maybe iwrong but im yet to see any leo anywhere...

The corrupt lawmakers talk a big game while making more an more lame laws but do they invest in personnel to enforce? No because the state is broke. I dont see that changing. Hell you hardly ever see a cop anymore. Remember when you used to have to worry about speeding your car ? Do you worry anymore? No, because there aint no cops out there.

 

[Fullpan]

I'm not sure on the fines but be careful what you sign for (not that a signature is required, cuz it's not). Some citations require you to appear in the court of jurisdiction (read many miles from you...usually). Other citations allow you to mail it in. Get this part straight because if you are required to appear and don't, a warrant is issued for your arrest.

Fun times huh?

Not having got into trouble my whole life lol - I am asking what if you make it to court on the day, and refuse to pay the fine - what's next? Will
you eventually have a jury trial if you insist?

 

[mytimetoshine]

Yes FULLPAN! This is what im trying to say. Althought california is full of wackjobs. I really dont think the gov is able or willing to actually enforce these rules. Just trying to use some lame jaywalking type law to scare honest americans away from "their" gold...

Even though im pretty sure i have a severe case of fever. I believe in the saying "its not about the gold,its about finding the gold" and more importantly enjoying the untamed natural beauty of OUR homeland while doing so. In my limited outings, being raised in the city and all, i absolutely love being out there among the trees and the sound of the river. There is something so special about it. It teaches you a great many things without you even realizing it. Forget the overpriced condo down town. I want the cabin, fishing poles,gold pan and the four wheelers! Time to get dirty!

 

[Fullpan]

Yes FULLPAN! This is what im trying to say. Althought california is full of wackjobs. I really dont think the gov is able or willing to actually enforce these rules. Just trying to use some lame jaywalking type law to scare honest americans away from "their" gold...

Even though im pretty sure i have a severe case of fever. I believe in the saying "its not about the gold,its about finding the gold" and more importantly enjoying the untamed natural beauty of OUR homeland while doing so. In my limited outings, being raised in the city and all, i absolutely love being out there among the trees and the sound of the river. There is something so special about it. It teaches you a great many things without you even realizing it. Forget the overpriced condo down town. I want the cabin, fishing poles,gold pan and the four wheelers! Time to get dirty!

Yes, the whole system is pretty shaky right now, no extra money for game wardens, courts, jails, etc. And about fifty confiscations with hundreds more on the
horizon, they'll put word out "just citations". This could be plan B, if we don't win in court this month.

 

[mytimetoshine]

Yes, the whole system is pretty shaky right now, no extra money for game wardens, courts, jails, etc. And about fifty confiscations with hundreds more on the
horizon, they'll put word out "just citations". This could be plan B, if we don't win in court this month.

Although im a rook. I think This crap is sooooo un american. I cant believe as a society we have come to this. Most people in this county are fat, lazy and on the take. The few of us left that actually want to experience the great outdoors and put in a honest days hard work with a little something to show for it have to worry about being cited or arrested for spending the day at the river. Our fore fathers must being doing 360's in there grave's....very, very sad.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well isn't it our right to be tried by a jury of our peers? If so... I want 12 MINERS/PROSPECTORS on the jury because no Joe Blow accountant that has never held a pan in their life is a peer to me! No person that has never busted their buns all day and not made enough to cover their fuel costs for the day is my peer. No person that has never felt the joy of finding a nice flake or a nugget is my peer.

Most of all no person that has lied to the general public, refused scientific studies because they don't agree with their agendas, or made back room deals with politicians to get their way is a peer of mine! If they were... I'd shoot myself in shame. Guess that though I clean up after myself (as well as others) out in the field I'll never be an environmentalist. gee..... Come to think of it, I"m rather proud of THAT fact!

 

[mytimetoshine]

Well isn't it our right to be tried by a jury of our peers? If so... I want 12 MINERS/PROSPECTORS on the jury because no Joe Blow accountant that has never held a pan in their life is a peer to me! No person that has never busted their buns all day and not made enough to cover their fuel costs for the day is my peer. No person that has never felt the joy of finding a nice flake or a nugget is my peer.

Most of all no person that has lied to the general public, refused scientific studies because they don't agree with their agendas, or made back room deals with politicians to get their way is a peer of mine! If they were... I'd shoot myself in shame. Guess that though I clean up after myself (as well as others) out in the field I'll never be an environmentalist. gee..... Come to think of it, I"m rather proud of THAT fact!

My brother , all i have to say to that is HELL YEA!

 

[Jeff95531]

Not having got into trouble my whole life lol - I am asking what if you make it to court on the day, and refuse to pay the fine - what's next? Will
you eventually have a jury trial if you insist?

It's been my experience these types of cases are all civil, not criminal, so no, no jury. If it is a mandatory court appearance and you show up, but the LEO doesn't, case dismissed. If you are found guilty the judge will usually give you ample time to pay. If you don't pay, a bench warrant is issued. Sometimes the judge will give you time to come into (and prove) compliance. That would require another court day.

Since these are civil cases, you only need to produce 51% or more proof that you were in compliance at the time you were cited to have it dismissed.

 

[Hard Prospector]

The big issue is violating the Clean Water Act(discharging ANYTHING into the water way) Violate that and they will make a example of you. Its easy to make a recirculating 12v power sluice/highbanker(Royal Mfg, Gold Grabber Mini,Gold Buddy V1250 etc.) Using 5 gal buckets or 20-30gal plastic bins connected in series, A 12v pump of appropriate gpm, RV battery a solar panel or two and your good to go. One 12v deep cycle battery will power my Gold Buddy 1250gpm pump all day. I use this system if I'm operating near a trail where I'm likely to see other user groups or civil servants. I've had hikers, rangers and F&W officers come up and check out the system and actually walk off impressed with the"green gold recovery system" Except this one g-man had an attitude and acted like I was getting away with something. He wanted to know what I was going to do with the water when I was done? (trick question) and I said" As per law, empty the water over 100' away from the creek into the bushes." He then asked what gave me the right to take water out of the creek in the first place and I said "I didn't take anything, I'm using the water to process a sample then returning it to perk back into the system, without creating any negative impact to the resource. By the way, look at some of the garbage I recovered and plan on taking out with me. He then just walked off..........prick

 

[kazcoro]

When dealing with LEO of ANY type in the outdoors, it is a HUGE bonus in your favor to have a trash bag full of what others leave behind. It shows stewardship. The legacy of Theodore Roosevelt, if you will.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Yes indeed. I always gather trash as I walk in so I have that to show anyone who comes along. I also tell them about all the lead I pull out of the riverbed, "we sure don't want lead in our water do we?"...they find themselves agreeing with me!!!

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

Except this one g-man had an attitude and acted like I was getting away with something. He wanted to know what I was going to do with the water when I was done? (trick question) and I said" As per law, empty the water over 100' away from the creek into the bushes." He then asked what gave me the right to take water out of the creek in the first place and I said "I didn't take anything, I'm using the water to process a sample then returning it to perk back into the system, without creating any negative impact to the resource. By the way, look at some of the garbage I recovered and plan on taking out with me. He then just walked off..........prick

"Drink it"

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well in our area everything is on a recirc system! So far even with the monsoons the washes around here are pretty much still dry. Of course with my luck I'd get some LEO that would complain that we're not allowed to water the desert. But since we operate on OUR PROPERTY, I pity any LEO that tries to check out the digs with a mind to close us down. If he don't have a warrant first thing I'd do is call the law on HIM for trespassing. Wouldn't it be soooooo nice to be able to turn the tables on some LEOs for a change? Might be something for all of us to keep in mind. If they site you and loose the case for whatever reason then file charges against the LEO for false arrest or anything else you can think of. Might teach them to make sure that they know the regs before they whip out that ticket book! After all.... If we just sit there and take their abuse then it will only continue.

Time for all of us to take a lesson from "Twisted Sister" and let them know that "We're not going to take it anymore."

Now... I'm off to my washes to test some new areas as I'm still trying to locate where the lode that is feeding the washes is.

Jeff in AZ

P.S. I also know that it's not ALL of the LEOs that are giving us a hard time. Just a few that have let the little power they have go to their head. Most are good people if you give them a chance to show it.