Widespread sign #1: "Lilo" or "lilo"

nmth

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Oct 11, 2012
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Hi,

I've been told these are possibly survey marks of some kind, but from Colonial Spanish era techniques?

I find them here and there in S. NM, often associated with (perhaps ill-advised?) digs or blasting!

Have not found any outside the region yet.

You have any that you can share from your travels or files? Or perhaps some advice?

I feel this may be a good mystery or at least be educational in some way.

Also, the circle hatch-cross is interesting. This particular example is from a well-known area, depending on the circles you run with, but unless you've seen them all over like I have, you might assume they are just initials or a name (which they may be!)

Image attached.

LILO_Example_5.JPG
 

sdcfia

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Sep 28, 2014
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Hi,

I've been told these are possibly survey marks of some kind, but from Colonial Spanish era techniques?

I find them here and there in S. NM, often associated with (perhaps ill-advised?) digs or blasting!

Have not found any outside the region yet.

You have any that you can share from your travels or files? Or perhaps some advice?

I feel this may be a good mystery or at least be educational in some way.

Also, the circle hatch-cross is interesting. This particular example is from a well-known area, depending on the circles you run with, but unless you've seen them all over like I have, you might assume they are just initials or a name (which they may be!)

Image attached.

View attachment 1358927



I've got a dozen or so lilo photos, but I haven't found yours. The circle is interesting, maybe important in some way to somebody. Here's a similar carving in another lilo-rich location:
Snake turtle-2.JPG



Be wary of lilos in the Cookes Range, as a number of the newer looking carvings were done by a prankster from Deming back 40-50 years ago.
 

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nmth

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2012
251
567
NM/AZ
Detector(s) used
V3(i), ATX, uMax, Gold Bug, TM808, Custom
I've got a dozen or so lilo photos, but I haven't found yours. The circle is interesting, maybe important in some way to somebody. Here's a similar carving in another lilo-rich location:
View attachment 1359223

Be wary of lilos in the Cookes Range, as a number of the newer looking carvings were done by a prankster from Deming back 40-50 years ago.

I had heard that (maybe from Springfield, or a local glyph (but not treasure) obsessive) a few years back.

I don't have as many as you say (12) - more like 5-6 if I go back through my material.

There are three main aspects I have seen:

1) Use of capitals or all lower case
2) In direct association with a 2-digit number or not
3) With or without association of native glyphs
...and I guess a 4th, really:
4) With or without obvious digging, boulder-explosion, etc. right by the glyph

I find the lower case only ones to be the most well-made and therefore meaningful. Some diggings by one of these in particular are probably very well-founded.
 

sdcfia

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Sep 28, 2014
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There are three main aspects I have seen:

1) Use of capitals or all lower case
2) In direct association with a 2-digit number or not
3) With or without association of native glyphs
...and I guess a 4th, really:
4) With or without obvious digging, boulder-explosion, etc. right by the glyph

I find the lower case only ones to be the most well-made and therefore meaningful. Some diggings by one of these in particular are probably very well-founded.

1) I don't believe I've seen any lilo's other than lower case.
2) Most of those are dates from the prankster, IMO.
3) Here's the best lilo of that kind, IMO.
Happy lilo.JPG

4) I haven't seen a lilo like that.
 

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nmth

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2012
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Re: Your #3: That's looks like the real deal to me if any of them are. My all lower-case example is so well made, I find it very hard to believe it's just graffitti. Was there a smaller non-lilo mark made with similar care nearby?

Here's a 1(capital)+2+3+4 (though dynamited rock and native glyphs not shown).

Capture.JPG

Another interesting thing in the region is what I will call "fin" rocks. These broad, flat (but not thin) rocks set vertically in the soil, often in areas with few rocks of any appreciable size, but not always. Have only seen one "solo". Others were in high-density sites of other stuff like tool-made glyphs and (not lilo) letters/numbers. Usually about the dimensions of a 2-drawer fling cabinet, but only about 1/3 as thick.

Anybody else? Anybody not in the SW?

1) I don't believe I've seen any lilo's other than lower case.
2) Most of those are dates from the prankster, IMO.
3) Here's the best lilo of that kind, IMO.
View attachment 1359731
4) I haven't seen a lilo like that.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,648
8,864
Primary Interest:
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Re: Your #3: That's looks like the real deal to me if any of them are. My all lower-case example is so well made, I find it very hard to believe it's just graffitti. Was there a smaller non-lilo mark made with similar care nearby?

Here's a 1(capital)+2+3+4 (though dynamited rock and native glyphs not shown).

View attachment 1364650

Another interesting thing in the region is what I will call "fin" rocks. These broad, flat (but not thin) rocks set vertically in the soil, often in areas with few rocks of any appreciable size, but not always. Have only seen one "solo". Others were in high-density sites of other stuff like tool-made glyphs and (not lilo) letters/numbers. Usually about the dimensions of a 2-drawer fling cabinet, but only about 1/3 as thick.

Anybody else? Anybody not in the SW?




Here's some lilos with numbers (dates), all attributed to the Deming deer hunter, IMO. As I recall, the second and third ones were both found at the site NE of Pony Hill, just above the Butterfield Trail, known as "Shangri La".

lilo4.jpg

lilo5.jpg

lilo6.jpg

lilo1.jpg


IMO, those upturned rock slabs - and all cairns for that matter - are extremely likely to have been erected for reasons having nothing to do with metal deposits or caches.
 

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nmth

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2012
251
567
NM/AZ
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IMO, those upturned rock slabs - and all cairns for that matter - are extremely likely to have been erected for reasons having nothing to do with metal deposits or caches.

I mostly figured the slabs were trail markers of some sort.

Hmm, so what reason for the slabs?

Definitely not graves as I know them, those are more like a bunch of stones in an oval in that area.

The ones I'm referencing are not associated with mining corner markers, etc. as far as I can tell.

They look like too much work for old PLSS surveyor leavings.

The dirt around them settled down long, long ago, so they are not new in my estimation.

And of course I tried my best to rule out natural placement otherwise they'd not be a topic of conversation for me. (but this part is a challenge, 'cuz people (including me) want to see stuff!!)

So?

Could they be native markings? Lots of defensive stone breastworks in the general area as well as documented massacres and other action. They are not placed well at all to be seen from a distance, so?

If nature was not the cause, then man was, but why?

Thanks for the Lilo pictures. That deer hunter may have ranged farther than I thought was likely if he was so prolific.
 

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