There are some real peop[le here.

[Peg Leg]

I posted a question at 5:45 A.M.
and HAVE HAD NOT A SINGLE REPLAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
pEG lEG

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Under the rules of Probabilities of Random Guessing I am probaby wrong...but I will say YES...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

With observation and intuition removed, my dowsing is only as good as guessing. Obviously, that won't win the jackpot.

Observation is an activity of a sapient or sentient living being, which senses and assimiliates the knowledge of a phenomenon in its framework of previous knowledge and ideas.
Intuition has many related meanings, usually connected to the meaning "ability to sense or know immediately without reasoning", including:


v. guessed, guess·ing, guess·es
v.tr.
1.
a. To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.
b. To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.
2. To form a correct estimate or conjecture of: guessed the answer.
3. To suppose; think: I guess he was wrong.
v.intr.
1. To make an estimate or conjecture: We could only guess at her motives.
2. To estimate or conjecture correctly.
n.
1. An act or instance of guessing.
2. A conjecture arrived at by guessing.

Ever wonder why you can still Dowse??....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

With observation and intuition removed, my dowsing is only as good as guessing. Obviously, that won't win the jackpot.

Observation is an activity of a sapient or sentient living being, which senses and assimiliates the knowledge of a phenomenon in its framework of previous knowledge and ideas.
Intuition has many related meanings, usually connected to the meaning "ability to sense or know immediately without reasoning", including:


v. guessed, guess·ing, guess·es
v.tr.
1.
a. To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.
b. To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.
2. To form a correct estimate or conjecture of: guessed the answer.
3. To suppose; think: I guess he was wrong.
v.intr.
1. To make an estimate or conjecture: We could only guess at her motives.
2. To estimate or conjecture correctly.
n.
1. An act or instance of guessing.
2. A conjecture arrived at by guessing.

Ever wonder why you can still Dowse??....Art

Hey! Good job, Art. You found use for a dictionary!

Of course, you didn't address Carl's statement at all, and then asked a completely off-subject question.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Of course, you didn't address Carl's statement at all, and then asked a completely off-subject question.

Let me see if I can explain this to you..

observation....Most of the treasure hunters use observations as part of their searches. We look for depressions in the ground, rocks that don't look natural and markings on on trees. Why ignore these hints as to what may be there?
intuition .....Why ignore something that may help you locate a treasure.
guess.......Carl and you don't seem to understand this word. It has nothing to do with odds, Probabilities of Random Guessing or any of the other junk. It is just a guess and is not what you pretend that it is....
I am just pointing out that Carl has ruled out what a lot of treasure hunters use every day....Art

 

[Carl-NC]

I am just pointing out that Carl has ruled out what a lot of treasure hunters use every day.

Absolutely not! I use the same techniques, I just don't call it "dowsing."

- Carl

 

[ClonedSIM]

Of course, you didn't address Carl's statement at all, and then asked a completely off-subject question.

Let me see if I can explain this to you..

observation....Most of the treasure hunters use observations as part of their searches. We look for depressions in the ground, rocks that don't look natural and markings on on trees. Why ignore these hints as to what may be there?
intuition .....Why ignore something that may help you locate a treasure.
guess.......Carl and you don't seem to understand this word. It has nothing to do with odds, Probabilities of Random Guessing or any of the other junk. It is just a guess and is not what you pretend that it is....
I am just pointing out that Carl has ruled out what a lot of treasure hunters use every day....Art

Now, let me explain it to you.

What Carl is trying to point out, unsuccessfully in your case, is that once you take away the human elements of observation and intuition, what's left is dowsing.

Dowsing, unless you chalk it up to observation or intuition which you clearly don't believe, must be some other element that factors in after these two traits.

But, if you took away your skills of observation and intuition, could you still dowse? Conversly, if you allow observation and intuition but remove dowsing, could you still find treasure? If so, then dowsing plays no role in treasure hunting.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Dowsing, unless you chalk it up to observation or intuition which you clearly don't believe, must be some other element that factors in after these two traits.

OK ...I understand that....

But, if you took away your skills of observation and intuition, could you still dowse

Yes

Conversly, if you allow observation and intuition but remove dowsing, could you still find treasure? If so, then dowsing plays no role in treasure hunting.

What your saying is that I have to forget everything I know about where to locate treasure and what to look for when I get there in order to locate treasure. Why would any sane person limit his treasure hunting in this matter? If your saying that my rods are of no use to me without observation and intuition you are wrong.
If guessing is the secret to treasure hunting why is eceryone one buying all this treasure hunting equipment? All they have to do is go over and pick it up...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Dowsing, unless you chalk it up to observation or intuition which you clearly don't believe, must be some other element that factors in after these two traits.

OK ...I understand that....

But, if you took away your skills of observation and intuition, could you still dowse

Yes

Conversly, if you allow observation and intuition but remove dowsing, could you still find treasure? If so, then dowsing plays no role in treasure hunting.

What your saying is that I have to forget everything I know about where to locate treasure and what to look for when I get there in order to locate treasure. Why would any sane person limit his treasure hunting in this matter? If your saying that my rods are of no use to me without observation and intuition you are wrong.
If guessing is the secret to treasure hunting why is eceryone one buying all this treasure hunting equipment? All they have to do is go over and pick it up...Art

Okay, then let me ask you this. When you were hunting at the old house where you found the coins, why did you go to the proch and driveway area to hunt?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Okay, then let me ask you this. When you were hunting at the old house where you found the coins, why did you go to the proch and driveway area to hunt?

Unlike you and Carl I lack the ablity to "Guess" where treasure is, so I never use that method.
When I arrived at the old house I knew that the most likely place to find lost coins would be near the front door and the driveway. No guessing, just plain facts as to where and how people lose coins. I could have searched for lost coins on the long trip out there or along the 2 mile long dirt driveway but that would just have been wasting our time on a chance that some thing may have been there. The owner wants me to find a hand dug well that is lined with bricks and a few other things for him. I am sure I can locate bricks but don't know if they will be the right ones or not. I will be back out there when the wheather warms a little....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Okay, then let me ask you this. When you were hunting at the old house where you found the coins, why did you go to the proch and driveway area to hunt?

Unlike you and Carl I lack the ablity to "Guess" where treasure is, so I never use that method.
When I arrived at the old house I knew that the most likely place to find lost coins would be near the front door and the driveway. No guessing, just plain facts as to where and how people lose coins. I could have searched for lost coins on the long trip out there or along the 2 mile long dirt driveway but that would just have been wasting our time on a chance that some thing may have been there. The owner wants me to find a hand dug well that is lined with bricks and a few other things for him. I am sure I can locate bricks but don't know if they will be the right ones or not. I will be back out there when the wheather warms a little....Art

You used your intuition, Art. You knew that people dropped coins when they were getting their keys out of their pckets, and sometimes dropped jewelry as well. Remember,

Intuition has many related meanings, usually connected to the meaning "ability to sense or know immediately without reasoning", including:

You didn't have to sit down and map out the grounds of the house. You knew where it was likely you would find coins without thinking about it, so that's where you went.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Ask yourself, what if you didn't have that intuition? What if you didn't know, intuitively, that you would find coins near the porch/driveway area? Then it's entirely possible you would be wandering your way down that 2-mile long driveway with nothing to show for it...

 

[aarthrj3811]

You used your intuition, Art. You knew that people dropped coins when they were getting their keys out of their pckets, and sometimes dropped jewelry as well. Remember,

Quote from: af1733 on Today at 08:55:39 AM
Intuition has many related meanings, usually connected to the meaning "ability to sense or know immediately without reasoning", including:
You didn't have to sit down and map out the grounds of the house. You knew where it was likely you would find coins without thinking about it, so that's where you went.
Ask yourself, what if you didn't have that intuition? What if you didn't know, intuitively, that you would find coins near the porch/driveway area? Then it's entirely possible you would be wandering your way down that 2-mile long driveway with nothing to show for it...

You and Carl are the ones that don't use observation and intuition to locate treasure. I use them all the time. So now please tell what observation and intuition has to do with finding coins? They put me in the right area where I know the objects should be...If I would have been using some other kind of treasure finding device I still would have been in the same area...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

You and Carl are the ones that don't use observation and intuition to locate treasure...Art
Where'd you get this gem from?


So now please tell what observation and intuition has to do with finding coins? They put me in the right area where I know the objects should be...If I would have been using some other kind of treasure finding device I still would have been in the same area...Art
Exactly! You get it, Art! Now, think about this! If you had been there without your rods, would those coins still have been in the same porch/driveway area? Of course! But what we don't know here is how you "found" the coins. How big were the holes you dug? Did you have to process the dirt like you do when you're digging for placer gold? Or.....did you point the rods in the general area of the yard beside the driveway, point to that area, then run the metal detector over the area until you got a hit?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Exactly! You get it, Art! Now, think about this! If you had been there without your rods, would those coins still have been in the same porch/driveway area? Of course! But what we don't know here is how you "found" the coins. How big were the holes you dug? Did you have to process the dirt like you do when you're digging for placer gold? Or.....did you point the rods in the general area of the yard beside the driveway, point to that area, then run the metal detector over the area until you got a hit?

Gee af1733....This was a simple recovery...We used a back hoe and took a foot of dirt off the top of a 60 X 20 foot area. We hauled the dirt to the ranch pond and dumped it. The next day I hauled my Keene Nessle 8DX out there and ran the dirt though it. Any more Questions?...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Gee af1733....This was a simple recovery...We used a back hoe and took a foot of dirt off the top of a 60 X 20 foot area. We hauled the dirt to the ranch pond and dumped it. The next day I hauled my Keene Nessle 8DX out there and ran the dirt though it. Any more Questions?...Art

So, I'm guessing you just don't remember?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Or is it that you GUESS that I don't have the equipment to do this job..Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Eh... time for clarification...

What Carl is trying to point out, unsuccessfully in your case, is that once you take away the human elements of observation and intuition, what's left is dowsing.

No no no... dowsing, as it is normally performed, is nothing more than observation and intuition*. When you take away those elements, you are left with guessing... pure luck.

Now, everyone here, both dowsers and non-dowsers, already agree that dowsing doesn't work in test situations where observation and intuition are removed, so there is no reason for even dowsers to continue to deny that dowsing relies on observation and intuition. Anyone who believes otherwise should rush to Randi's website and fill out an application.

Of course, even Pure Luck dowsing can be mighty convincing. If I were to dowse for water here in NC, I'm pretty much guaranteed to get a good well. If I were to dowse for gold at Ganes Creek, I'm pretty much guaranteed to find a gold nugget, assuming I know how to use a metal detector. In these example, "luck" ends up being about 99% certain, and can skew perception and lead to unwarranted conclusions about dowsing.

What your saying is that I have to forget everything I know about where to locate treasure and what to look for when I get there in order to locate treasure.

You and Carl are the ones that don't use observation and intuition to locate treasure. I use them all the time.

I've already explained that your wrong about this, so it is pointless to keep repeating it. Yes, I do use observation and intuition, all the time. In metal detecting a site, it narrows down the areas I search, and maximizes my finds-to-time ratio. At least, I hope it does.

So now please tell what observation and intuition has to do with finding coins? They put me in the right area where I know the objects should be...If I would have been using some other kind of treasure finding device I still would have been in the same area...Art

You just answered your own question, as well as I could have. You have just explained what dowsing is all about and, if you think about it a bit more, you will realize why dowsing doesn't work in randomized blind testing.

- Carl

*I include in observation and intuition any knowledge attained whether by research or by accumulated prior experiences. Observation is what you see and know, intuition is what you deduce based on experience.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Eh... time for clarification...

What Carl is trying to point out, unsuccessfully in your case, is that once you take away the human elements of observation and intuition, what's left is dowsing.

No no no... dowsing, as it is normally performed, is nothing more than observation and intuition*. When you take away those elements, you are left with guessing... pure luck.

Exactly, guessing = dowsing.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Gee af1733....This was a simple recovery...We used a back hoe and took a foot of dirt off the top of a 60 X 20 foot area. We hauled the dirt to the ranch pond and dumped it. The next day I hauled my Keene Nessle 8DX out there and ran the dirt though it. Any more Questions?...Art

So, I'm guessing you just don't remember?

Or is it that you GUESS that I don't have the equipment to do this job..Art

Um, so this is actually how you dug up a few coins?