Aztec-Aztalan- Cibola Discovery EVIDENCE ( The UNDENIABLE PROOF )

[mdog]

The place is in Arizona. I believe they have went northeast because were tracking the signs of the trail left by the first diggers.

Thank you Marius. That’s interesting.

 

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[markmar]

For those who are interested. A map which shows how the seven cities/caves of Cibola are located on the ground.

 

[somehiker]

Actually, IMHO the Aztec picture describing the seven caves as a big cave in which are seven compartments with seven different tribes, is a metaphorical image.
The Aztecs use that image to describe a placenta, a place that gave birth to their nation. In reality , the seven caves are almost in line and separately. They have their own entrance. Five of them face north, one faces east and one west. But the line on which they are located, has almost an east to west orientation.
In reality, these seven caves were/are seven very rich gold mines, with their walls almost embedded with the precious metal.
The Monctezuma's treasure is hidden in the third cave from the east, together with another two treasures which were put there later by two different owners.

The distance between the first caves from east and west is about half mile. I don't believe that E-W orientation has anything to do with the sun, but is where the first diggers found the gold outcropings. Seems there were many vents of a big rich gold in quartz vein.
The other owners who deposited their treasure in the same region, were Spaniards and Jesuits. The Spaniards worked those mines short time after Coronado walked near by. They have amassed a large quantity of gold bars which were deposited in the seven caves about in equal quantities ( few tons each ). But they all were massacred by the Natives, maybe when they wanted to get advantage on the Montezuma treasure.
The Jesuits came later, little before their expulsion, and with the help of the same Natives, hid all their gold and silver church ornaments in four of the seven caves.
The seven caves are in the USA. Two moons period and about 19 miles per day afar from the Aztec HQ.

Are you basing all the above on this particular image Marius ?
If so, that's quite the theory you have !

 

[markmar]

Are you basing all the above on this particular image Marius ?
If so, that's quite the theory you have !

Is a good theory which could be proven real any time. This picture is of Chicomoztoc wich is located in the Culhuacan. But you already know this. What maybe you don't know, is the image has the south on top. The smelter ( Moneta ) like in the image, still on the top of a ridge, and the spring, in the image lower to the right ( west ), is the same which the one that runs in the Perrine cave of gold items and is known in different stories at the place where it comes out from the ground as the "seep spring ". Is the same Geronimo and Injunbro were talking about.
Like the image shows lower to the right, the caves are sealed and have some kind of tunnel at the entrance. The Natives in the image are Toltecs and the bearded are Europeans who came in 800 AD. They mixed together and gave birth to the Hohokam and after to the Aztecs.

 

[somehiker]

Is a good theory which could be proven real any time. This picture is of Chicomoztoc wich is located in the Culhuacan. But you already know this. What maybe you don't know, is the image has the south on top. The smelter ( Moneta ) like in the image, still on the top of a ridge, and the spring, in the image lower to the right ( west ), is the same which the one that runs in the Perrine cave of gold items and is known in different stories at the place where it comes out from the ground as the "seep spring ". Is the same Geronimo and Injunbro were talking about.
Like the image shows lower to the right, the caves are sealed and have some kind of tunnel at the entrance. The Natives in the image are Toltecs and the bearded are Europeans who came in 800 AD. They mixed together and gave birth to the Hohokam and after to the Aztecs.

I don't know about "good theory", but you certainly make some interesting assumptions I'd say.....and very different from what historians, archaeologists and anthropologists have to say about the topic.
How is it that you believe that all this could be "proven" very soon ?

 

[markmar]

I don't know about "good theory", but you certainly make some interesting assumptions I'd say.....and very different from what historians, archaeologists and anthropologists have to say about the topic.
How is it that you believe that all this could be "proven" very soon ?

I wrote could be proven any time. When, is a matter of a decision.

PS

In the codex picture, you can see in the right down corner, the seven caves separately. They are following each other along the mountain shape.

 

[somehiker]

I wrote could be proven any time. When, is a matter of a decision.

A decision by who ?
And proven to who ??

 

[markmar]

A decision by who ?
And proven to who ??

A decision by the ruler of Cibola. And proven to everyone who is interested.

 

[somehiker]

A decision by the ruler of Cibola. And proven to everyone who is interested.

"Ruler of Cibola" ?
What type of ruler do the people of "Cibola" have ?
And who, exactly, are these people....the Hopi or Zuni, or do you have somebody else in your theory?

 

[markmar]

"Ruler of Cibola" ?
What type of ruler do the people of "Cibola" have ?
And who, exactly, are these people....the Hopi or Zuni, or do you have somebody else in your theory?

There are not people of Cibola still.

 

[somehiker]

There are not people of Cibola still.

You will need to clarify that a bit, before I can understand what you are trying to say Marius.

Are you saying these people no longer exist ?

If not, then how can they have a "ruler" who decides anything ?

"PS

In the codex picture, you can see in the right down corner, the seven caves separately. They are following each other along the mountain shape. "

As far as I know, according to academics who have thoroughly studied this and all the other codices, the symbolism located at the lower right corner shows a body(s) of water, either flowing into, or out of, a mountain. The circle-in-circle symbols, and often shell symbols are usually included where bodies of water are depicted, both symbols being associated with things of value. That a person is shown as bathing in the water likely indicates the water as being of very good quality and plentiful.

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

Codex Botorini........the story of their pilgrimage from Aztlan to Lake Texcoco and to a point in their history which, in part, led to the founding of Tenochtitlan. Since the codex ends with only half of folio #22 preserved, what may have been on any additional folios is unknown.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Boturini_Codex

Only the first page shows Aztlan, surrounded by water, from where they depart on their migration southward on year one-flint-knife. But first they must retrieve a carved wooden effigy of Huitzilopochtli, who has beckoned them from his shrine within a cave on a "bent or curved/crooked mountain" on the far shore of the lake.
Folio #2 shows the beginning of their journey and which representatives were chosen by the speakers of the eight great houses to lead the group.
The following pages show significant places and what occurred at each (named) place and who was involved during the 208+ years that passed during the migration, ending on that 1/2 page # 22 showing only two figures, each holding a simple obsidian blade.
Every 52 years, the Aztec would perform a "new fire" ceremony. Symbols for which are shown on folios #6, #10 (part of which you have used as an illustration in your post), as well as folios #15 and #19.
In other words, the new fire symbol on folio 10 indicates that the Aztecs were at a location 104 years into their exodus, thus nowhere near "Aztlan", their departure point.

View attachment 1656455

the glyph attached to the new fire symbol, is Underground or Cave, I believe....

 

[markmar]

You will need to clarify that a bit, before I can understand what you are trying to say Marius.

Are you saying these people no longer exist ?

If not, then how can they have a "ruler" who decides anything ?

"PS

In the codex picture, you can see in the right down corner, the seven caves separately. They are following each other along the mountain shape. "

As far as I know, according to academics who have thoroughly studied this and all the other codices, the symbolism located at the lower right corner shows a body(s) of water, either flowing into, or out of, a mountain. The circle-in-circle symbols, and often shell symbols are usually included where bodies of water are depicted, both symbols being associated with things of value. That a person is shown as bathing in the water likely indicates the water as being of very good quality and plentiful.

Ruler over the gold.
The water is the " Yellow " River. Very good quality and in ambundance.

 

[somehiker]

Ruler over the gold.
The water is the " Yellow " River. Very good quality and in ambundance.

More riddles Marius ?
Is that like backwards maps and words which do not mean what they say ?

So, who's the "ruler".....you ??

 

[somehiker]

the glyph attached to the new fire symbol, is Underground or Cave, I believe....

While it's possible a cave does exist at that location..... on folio 10 ..... the basic shape of the glyph, along with the covered flat part across the bottom ( an altar, so far as I know) symbolizes a mountain place where the Chichimeca performed rituals, such as blood letting (symbolized by the pointed object...a thorn...), and sacrifice (the head on the rack), as well as ceremonies such as that of the new fire.

 

[sdcfia]

Volcano/caverns or squid?

 

[somehiker]

Volcano/caverns or squid?

I can't recall ever seeing an Aztec depiction....carving or glyph.... of a squid .

 

[sdcfia]

Yeah, me neither.

 

[somehiker]

Yeah, me neither.

Although the Aztec Empire did expand to include areas of both the Pacific coast and along the Gulf of Mexico, and saltwater fish was part of the diet in both, I doubt they ventured far enough out or dragged their nets deep enough to catch squid. So, no surprise there.

 

[sdcfia]

Although the Aztec Empire did expand to include areas of both the Pacific coast and along the Gulf of Mexico, and saltwater fish was part of the diet in both, I doubt they ventured far enough out or dragged their nets deep enough to catch squid. So, no surprise there.

Yeah. The tide went out for the last time a couple hundred million years ago where this petroglyph is, so I guess we can rule out sea life.