9TH. ANNUAL DUTCH HUNTERS RENDEZVOUS

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Kurt: hot fresh sock coffee ?? Frankly I fail to understand your post to Cubber?? I assumed that everyone had a right to disagree with every one else, 'almost an obligation,' I personally have had my share, but still remain good friends with the worst of them .

In fact some actually changed my mind on some things, correctly, believe it or not - 'so much for the Bull headed Oirish guy' --

Too many "yes attitudes" have created the confusion on the LDM factor.

Relax, it is more fun .

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

I found cubfan to be polite and kind...if somewhat over worked...
I wonder at a response like this...
I was parked up in the big parking area above the amphitheater...
I left due to the few people who came in and began drinking heavily and created a bonfire that rivaled the crystal night...
while I attempted to be kind to whoever that group was, I was accused of sneaking around, hey fool, I was there first...then received the snort of disgust when I introduced myself...
not the type of people I associate with...so I went and camped by sarge and joe...great neighbors...
had a wonderful time with most everyone...the few who I did not interact with, were by their choosing, not mine...
rather interesting post...glad I did not meet you...if I did, sorry I shook your hand.

 

[Cubfan64]

Oh goodness, I'm wounded to the core.

Not sure what caused Kurt to dislike me so much considering we shared some good e-mails a number of times while Jim Hatt was still alive. A couple times I even tried to take him up on the offers he makes to show people some interesting things in the Superstitions - unfortunately at least in my case the response was along the lines of "stay out of my area or else..." When I mentioned on DUSA that I was aware of where Jim camped and worked in the mountains, the response was much the same... something about how Jim passed that information on to Kurt and his crew, the area now belonged to them and that they would protect it and keep people out if they had to. I'm like most folks in that I don't like being threatened.

I know I've said this before, but to me respect is not something a person has to earn - I grew up with the belief that respect is ALWAYS offered to EVERYONE you meet, and from that point on it's in their hands based on their words and actions towards you as to whether they retain that respect or not.

I'm glad to hear it wasn't Kurt and his group making all that racket up above the Don's camp - it definitely put a damper on the solitude and peacefulness of the desert at night.

Like I said before, it's clear to me that none of the other folks at the Rendezvous are in the same class as DoubleJack.

 

[gollum]

Kurt,

Is that true that you said Jim gave you all his stuff, therefore it (Jims area of interest) belongs to you? I certainly hope not! We have been very cool for a long time, but don't forget; Jim sent me a lot of his personal stuff as well. I haven't advertised it, and we haven't sat down and compared what he sent me with what he sent you. Knowing Jim, I don't doubt he spread his information between a few people. Jim gave me over 7 gigabytes of research, drawings, interviews, maps, pictures, etc. (including notes and pics regarding the stone crosses, cursum perficio, and Latin Heart). I will go anywhere I please to run down any lead I wish.

For a hundred years before Jim came along, the area he was interested in was someone else's place of interest. Darn near every square foot of the SWA was under claim or secret interest by someone at one time or another. So far, VERY FEW people have gotten kind of return on their investment of time/money.

Best - Mike

 

[roadrunner]

G'morning R R. This is still in force in old Mexico back country if'n you don't want to be shot. You always announce your presence. So, did you enjoy self??

Don Jose de La Mancha

Sure did. Everyone was just as I figured they would be.
Generous, and polite.

 

[Cubfan64]

Kurt,

Is that true that you said Jim gave you all his stuff, therefore it (Jims area of interest) belongs to you? I certainly hope not! We have been very cool for a long time, but don't forget; Jim sent me a lot of his personal stuff as well. I haven't advertised it, and we haven't sat down and compared what he sent me with what he sent you. Knowing Jim, I don't doubt he spread his information between a few people. Jim gave me over 7 gigabytes of research, drawings, interviews, maps, pictures, etc. (including notes and pics regarding the stone crosses, cursum perficio, and Latin Heart). I will go anywhere I please to run down any lead I wish.

For a hundred years before Jim came along, the area he was interested in was someone else's place of interest. Darn near every square foot of the SWA was under claim or secret interest by someone at one time or another. So far, VERY FEW people have gotten kind of return on their investment of time/money.

Best - Mike

 

[sgtfda]

The wilderness and forest are national parks open to all.

 

[gollum]

for everybody other than Kurt,

I try and give everybody the benefit of the doubt. It is a well known fact that Jim stashed supplies and such in the wilderness (as many others do), so he wouldn't have to pack everything in every time. Now, if Kurt was warning CF not to disturb Jim's Camp or personal effects he may know of that Jim stashed, I would say that he was within reason. Jim's stashes, and personal equipment I would absolutely say that Kurt has every right to.

Back to Kurt,

You don't have the right to tell anybody to stay away from "your area". You don't own anything there. Jim didn't even have that right, and he spent many years pounding the pavement (so to speak). You are standing on Jim Hatt's Shoulders. A little more gratitude to Jim and humility towards everybody else might be in order. What would you say to me if I said that I am going to run down a thought I had based on the information Jim GAVE ME?

I don't know whether he did or not, but what if Jim gave some things to Clay Worst? Jim and Clay were close for a long time. Would you say that you have more right to an "area" than Clay?

Not trying to rag on you too hard. Like I said before, we have always been cool with each other. Don't get too high and mighty! LOL

Best - Mike

 

[wrmickel1]

Kurt

I must agree with Gollum and Cubfan and even Joe, And that's a mighty hard pill to swallow, But you can't pay respect to your friends life long works, by being a nasty prick to others. Well unless Jim passed on His self inflated Importance or His self inflated ego or the power to delete your posts because he didn't like it, And don't get all wound up now, I liked Jim and his work a lot, so don't discredit it, but grow with it to realize Jims dream of finding it. Keep your Eye on the PRIZE! and work on your people skills.

Just a outside eye looking in Wrmickel1


Ohhh PS, Sorry Cubfan for disturbing your quite desert night. I might have had alittle to do with that loud dirty rocker music till morning, I got alittle carried away again. A couple fifths and that's all I remember even though my body lasted till the morning,

 

[GarretDiggingAz]

Wow. This has gotten heated. I understand y'all have got info from others, but if you ran across somebody following their own leads, would you tell them to get out of the area?

Didn't realize the group disliked others for other thoughts or ideas.

I'd still like to go to next years rendezvous to hear the history and hopefully educate my kids on an ongoing history of the Supes. Then maybe they'll go from their and learn more and then add to the knowledge of others.

 

[Cubfan64]

for everybody other than Kurt,

I try and give everybody the benefit of the doubt. It is a well known fact that Jim stashed supplies and such in the wilderness (as many others do), so he wouldn't have to pack everything in every time. Now, if Kurt was warning CF not to disturb Jim's Camp or personal effects he may know of that Jim stashed, I would say that he was within reason. Jim's stashes, and personal equipment I would absolutely say that Kurt has every right to.

I completely agree with what you said Mike, and if it had been said or explained that way to me and others on DUSA who he was addressing I would completely understand. I've come across packs and supplies in the mountains and have always kept my hands off as that's what I would expect others to do as well.

In the context of the discussion that was taking place at the time however, some of us took the meaning in a different light - hopefully we were wrong, but without an explanation we were left to interpret it the way we did.

That said, I too try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, so that'll be the last I say about the topic.

 

[Somero]

The "peanut gallery" chimes in.

My experience at the rendezvous was great, hopefully made some friends, traded ideas and even provided some "info" that I promised I would. Just wish I could have spent more time than I did, so much more I wanted to discuss.

As for Double Jack.......................wow. Not sure I would want to meet you now and I really have to wonder about your idea of fun. Seriously, if I happened to wander into "your area" because my conclusions led me there would you chase me off and insure I would never return? If I was in an area and another TH'er showed up I would hope we could pull up a couple rocks and sit down and have a civilized discussion, team up at best or agree to not bother one another as a worst case. We are supposed to be civilized after all, this is not the 1800's anymore and it's not "shoot first, ask questions later" and nobody can stake a legal claim out there anymore.

Funny how such animosity can be driven by something that may or may not even exist, what ever happened to the idea of the fun in the search, learning about the history, making friends, sharing stories, and being civil. I understand we all have our secrets we would like to keep but we should not let this get in the way of enjoying the adventure. Paranoia is such a bad driving force, it can make us do things we would regret in the long run.

I hate these deep dark waters must be those values my grandparents instilled in me.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

something about those mountains just make some people looney toons...


View attachment 894147

 

[cactusjumper]

There are many people who are just not satisfied with their lot in life so they tend to try and tear down those who are doing good things with their lives, while inflating their own importance.

If you're a cook, try to be the best cook you can be. If you're a janitor, be the best janitor you can be.

The Rendezvous has become something of value for many Dutch Hunters. It has been under fire since it was first created. If not under direct attack, there are folks who try to throw a wet blanket over the event. Talk of fights and chest thumping are weak attempts to make it look like less than it is.

If you come into camp, you will be welcome.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Somero]

If you come into camp, you will be welcome.

Joe Ribaudo

Nothing beats a good dose of Truth.

 

[Oroblanco]

Garrett

Didn't realize the group disliked others for other thoughts or ideas.

Not the group amigo, there are a few individuals with issues whom do not wish to be a part of a great get together that has no hostility. Hopefully these individuals will not feel so alienated in future, the rendezvous is a great FAMILY ORIENTED type of peaceful, friendly get-together. The one standing rule is that the battle axes are left outside the camp gates - so perhaps these individuals are not yet willing to abide by that simple and wise rule. Life is short, too short to be wasting such opportunities to meet great people over some personal anger problems.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

I behaved...I think...

 

[Cubfan64]

I behaved...I think...

You did... I think (hehe)

You get points for showing restraint now and then when you might not have shown it in a different setting.

 

[wrmickel1]

Garrett


. The one standing rule is that the battle axes are left outside the camp gates -
Oroblanco

Oroblanco

Leaving my wife outside the gate would be rude!

Wrmickel1

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hmm wrmickle, hmm, lets see, how much can I get to not repeat that to your wife?? Say a nice young riding mule? Or a kilo of fresh hot tortillas? Even a couple of litres of Orig Bacanora would seal mi lips Bribe me .

Don Jose de La Mancha