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[GreenBranch]

Sorry Clay, I didn't word that very clearly. I panned for gold but found quite a lot of silver, not by panning but just picking it up off the ground. I started noticing some mineralized quartz when we came to a convergence of a stream from the west. My topo map doesn't list a name. I kept picking up the quartz hoping to find signs of gold but there was nothing until we got to Rogers Canyon Spring and then the silver ore suddenly appeared. A few dozen yards further it suddenly stopped. Then again just past the cave mostly on the south side of the stream it picked up again. I didn't bring any samples home, that wasn't what I was after, but I know my son kept some. I'll see if he still has it and see if he'll send me pictures.

 

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[393stroker]

I'd like to start with what seems to me to be one of the more consistently referenced maps; the Peralta Profile Map.

Stupid question #1. Is there an original copy of this map that can be examined and if so, has anyone done a chemical analysis to help verify the map's age and materials?

Stupid question #2. Has anyone found the location depicted in the map? I read that Bicknell searched the ruins near angel springs and even carved his name in the center post but said he didn't find any evidence of a mine shaft or tunnel. Has this area been sufficiently scoured by seasoned Dutch Hunters to cross it off any potential LDM list?

And if my questions are not only stupid but taboo on this forum, please let me know. I don't want to get banned on my fifth post.

I've added notes to the map as found on various sites and threads.

View attachment 2071932

I'd like to start with what seems to me to be one of the more consistently referenced maps; the Peralta Profile Map.

Stupid question #1. Is there an original copy of this map that can be examined and if so, has anyone done a chemical analysis to help verify the map's age and materials?

Stupid question #2. Has anyone found the location depicted in the map? I read that Bicknell searched the ruins near angel springs and even carved his name in the center post but said he didn't find any evidence of a mine shaft or tunnel. Has this area been sufficiently scoured by seasoned Dutch Hunters to cross it off any potential LDM list?

And if my questions are not only stupid but taboo on this forum, please let me know. I don't want to get banned on my fifth post.

I've added notes to the map as found on various sites and threads.

View attachment 2071932

I know where that’s at. Still need to spend some more time in the area. Got wore out looking for the hoyo

I'd like to start with what seems to me to be one of the more consistently referenced maps; the Peralta Profile Map.

Stupid question #1. Is there an original copy of this map that can be examined and if so, has anyone done a chemical analysis to help verify the map's age and materials?

Stupid question #2. Has anyone found the location depicted in the map? I read that Bicknell searched the ruins near angel springs and even carved his name in the center post but said he didn't find any evidence of a mine shaft or tunnel. Has this area been sufficiently scoured by seasoned Dutch Hunters to cross it off any potential LDM list?

And if my questions are not only stupid but taboo on this forum, please let me know. I don't want to get banned on my fifth post.

I've added notes to the map as found on various sites and threads.

View attachment 2071932

I know that place

 

[GreenBranch]

I have searched this forum in vain for anyone who has personally sampled mine dumps and found gold. That means that the miners were very meticulous in recovering every speck of gold, or that no one has taken the time to pan the dumps, or I don't know how to search this forum very well. Probably the last one.

With the number of comments here and articles elsewhere suggesting there is NO gold in the Superstition mountains I have to ask stupid question #3: Has anyone here personally found traces of gold in the dumps or around the various mines I see popping up from time to time on this forum. Other than legend, is there any proof that lode gold was ever found there?

Thanks. The learning curve is steep and I appreciate your willingness to put up with my questions.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Sorry Clay, I didn't word that very clearly. I panned for gold but found quite a lot of silver, not by panning but just picking it up off the ground. I started noticing some mineralized quartz when we came to a convergence of a stream from the west. My topo map doesn't list a name. I kept picking up the quartz hoping to find signs of gold but there was nothing until we got to Rogers Canyon Spring and then the silver ore suddenly appeared. A few dozen yards further it suddenly stopped. Then again just past the cave mostly on the south side of the stream it picked up again. I didn't bring any samples home, that wasn't what I was after, but I know my son kept some. I'll see if he still has it and see if he'll send me pictures.

You must be very centered on your search to attempt to find a gold mine but instead find silver and then discard your finds. I'm guessing you have zero mining experience?

Standard questions when encountering silver. What type of silver minerals did you discover? Was it black or red? Was it float?

Hard to believe a popular well traveled trail like Rogers Canyon would have silver ore exposed on the surface. Even harder to believe silver or gold ore was found in that volcanic tuff. Wrong geology for base metals.

Maybe you were in another canyon?

 

[GreenBranch]

You're right, I have zero mining experience and I have zero interest in getting rich by mining. My goal is to help solve the mystery of the LDM. I think there has been enough killing and death in the Superstition mountains brought on by the greed of gold hunters including Jacob Waltz and I want no part of it. But maybe, just maybe, if the mine were found, there would be a lot less people dying trying to find it and a lot less arguing and posturing on this forum.

 

[GreenBranch]

Hard to believe a popular well traveled trail like Rogers Canyon would have silver ore exposed on the surface. Even harder to believe silver or gold ore was found in that volcanic tuff. Wrong geology for base metals.

I think this thread might suggest otherwise. https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/more-questions-about-the-silver-chief-mine.646201/#post-6651039 #6 posted by Matthew Roberts. Since I'm not a geologist or miner, I have to rely on the knowledge of others on this forum and on boots-on-the-ground observations. Have you ever hiked Rogers Canyon? If so, I'm surprised you didn't find the silver just laying on the ground at Rogers Spring.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I have hiked Rogers Canyon several times beginning in 1972. I am a professional miner. Rogers canyon does have some mineral potential but it's mostly about a disseminated copper deposit - not gold or silver.
The thread you linked to backs up my conclusion. No one found any silver or any indication that silver or gold had been mined there.

I have found no mining record of a Silver Chief mine, it appears to be a media legend with no actual smelter receipts. That doesn't mean there isn't a hole in the ground. People dig holes for all kinds of reasons and all too often miners are unsuccessful because they "believe" (despite the evidence) the big strike has to be just beyond where it pinched out. Just a few more feet ...

There were several small surface galena deposits worked on the west side of the canyon in the early 20th century by the Woodbury family. You can still see some of these today. The Woodburys built the mill there, now erroneously labeled "Rogers Trough" on the Topo maps. Rogers never saw the mill.

Galena, being the primary ore of lead, was valuable then and often small deposits could be mined by a few individuals at a profit. Galena ore sometimes contains a small percentage of silver but the ore has to be properly smelted to get the silver and lead separated. The Woodbury family needed a mill, to reduce and concentrate the ore before sending it down the canyon to the Globe and later, after 1910, the Miami smelters. There may have been some silver extracted from those shipments. I think this is where the legend of a rich silver mine came from.

Most of the prospects you see in Rogers canyon were for small concentrated copper deposits. Copper began to rise in price beginning in 1880 and by 1900 it became the hot new metal to prospect for. Around the turn of the century there were so many of these small copper prospects that the Town of Miami was founded to take advantage of the trade from the small miners blanketing the hills. Miami opened their smelters in 1910 and provided a good alternative to the Globe smelters seven miles away. The rest is history. That's why Arizona is known as the "Copper State".

Today galena is not a profitable ore. Trade in lead now is all about recycling what has already been mined. The smelters don't want it, once they have their takeoff of litharge metals they have no interest or market for lead. Any silver in the galena, if there was any, is probably going to stay there until we need fresh mined lead again.

The disseminated copper deposits are still being mined there after more than 140 years of continuous mining. I will guarantee you those Globe/Miami disseminated copper mines have produced more gold than you could stuff in 10 LDMs. Currently there are three permitted copper mines within a mile of Miami and several more coming on line soon. Sometimes the answer is not where you are looking. Look behind yourself as you enter Rogers canyon next time and you will see the area where billions in copper, silver and gold have already been mined. This same mining continues today.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I think this thread might suggest otherwise. https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/more-questions-about-the-silver-chief-mine.646201/#post-6651039 #6 posted by Matthew Roberts. Since I'm not a geologist or miner, I have to rely on the knowledge of others on this forum and on boots-on-the-ground observations. Have you ever hiked Rogers Canyon? If so, I'm surprised you didn't find the silver just laying on the ground at Rogers Spring.

Green Branch, Clay,
Yes the Silver Chief was a good producer of silver along with a dozen other mines that surrounded it on Rogers ridge.

Clay might remember Carl and Eva Smith who claimed a relocation on the Silver Chief in the 1960 - 1970's time frame and renamed it the Lazy Mule #54.

Woodbury came along many years after the Silver Chief had closed down and rebuilt the spring, trough and mill that James Rogers and Charles Flemming had built in the 1870 - 1880 era.

Silver ore can still be found along that ridge in the mineral form of silver bromide and silver chloride but it is low grade and not worth the effort to mine. Some trace samples of native silver were taken in 1980 but again low grade and not near enough to be economically mined.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Yes the Silver Chief was a good producer of silver along with a dozen other mines that surrounded it on Rogers ridge.

You continue to make this claim but have presented no evidence that the Silver Chief ever produced a single ounce of silver. You have often quoted the 1883 Congressional report from the director of the U.S. mint but you neglect to mention that at that point in time the Silver Chief had not produced any silver.

Here is the full text from the 1883 Congressional report:

Rogers district is 14 miles north of Pinal.
There is plenty of wood and water in this district, offering facilities for mining and milling that are unsurpassed. The country rock is granite and porphyry. There are three main ledges running parallel, southeast and northwest,dipping to north, on which the chief development work has been done. The Snap, Chloride King, and Monarch are on one. the Columbia, SilverChief, Manhattan, and World Beater on another. the Blanch. Dickens ,Goodenough, and Plato on the third. The Silver Chief was the first discovered in the district, in 1875. andis now the best developed mine in it. There is. 200. foot tunnel onthe ledge, which is carbonate ore showing native silver, from. to 12 feet in width. Free gold has also been found in the tunnel. Assays of the ore go from. 120 to. 2,500. At. depth of 20 feet there is an 80 foot shaft to the surface. About 300 feet west of this shaft is another 60-foot shaft, at the bottom of which the ledge is 12 feet wide, and theyare going to work in the tunnel to reach this shaft, which they will do at. depth of about 250 feet. Further surface work has been done on the mine, making altogether about 400 feet. The World Beater has. 60. foot shaft and. 75- foot tunnel on the ledge. At latest developments the ledge is. feet wide, of chloride ore, assay.ing from $90 to $4,000. Native silver is found throughout. There are now on the dump about 40 tons of. 120 ore. The Dickens has. shaft 90 feet deep. The ledge on the surface is. feet wide, of carbonate of lead. In the last few feet they have struckextra rich carbonate ore. There are about 50 tons on the dump that will average about. 160.The Chloride King has two incline shafts following the vein,one about 30 feet in depth and one about 20 feet. The ledge is over 3 feet in width between walls,carrying a pay streak of about 14 inches.The latest assay gave $785. The Manhattan has a tunnel started in about30 feet,and expects to strike the ledge at 120 feet by running 40 feet farther. The ledge is from 1 to 3 feet wide, of the same character of ore as those already described. The Robin has a shaft 30 feet down on a 3-foot vein of ore containing silver glance that will average. 400. Some 300 feet east of this shaft is a tunnel in about 20 feet on the ledge. The Plato, an extension of the Dickens, shows. stratum of rich sulphuret ore, which can be traced here and there for. distance of 200 feet. An assay made last week of surface rock from this claim went. 320 .The Mabel and Glance adjoin the Columbia and Silver Chief on the west side of the mountain. The former has. ledge 14 feet in width, and the latter one of two feet, carrying the fine chloride ore characteristic of this district.The Columbia, which is the first west extension of the Silver Chief, has. 40. foot tunnel on. vein about. foot wide. ore similar to that in the Silver Chief. The Snap,. west extension of the Chloride King, ha a. shaft 20 feet, showing up a ledge of good ore. The Monarch has a shaft down 40 feet in good ore.There are many other good properties lying within this district, but mostly in an undeveloped condition.

I've highlighted the first bit of fluff in the report. As you know the area you also know that timber and water are in very short supply.

If you actually read the full report you will see that the producing mines have their monthly smelter receipts published in the report. Here is the actual smelter reports for the nearby Silver King mine:

You won't find those reports for the Silver Chief because by 1882 it had not produced any saleable silver - as was true of all the mines in the Rogers District.

Was silver ever mined in the Rogers canyon area? I don't know. I do know that I can find no (zero) reports of silver ever being produced in this district. Lead and copper yes but no silver or gold. Perhaps you have some more documentation that leads you to believe the Silver Chief did produce silver at some time?

You stated that on your 1980 visit to the Silver Chief "They winzed off in different directions but found nothing at the Silver Chief of any value, neither gold nor silver." I think that's the most accurate assessment I've read since it was made by miners at the mine with the intent of discovering valuable minerals to mine.

 

[GreenBranch]

My son finally sent a picture of one of the samples he picked up. I have to plead ignorance on this because I thought it looked like the silver ore samples I had seen on the internet, but a more rigorous Google search told me it could be one of several minerals. I'll leave it to you experts to let me know what it is. It measures about two inches by six inches by one inch tall.

 

[Clay Diggins]

My son finally sent a picture of one of the samples he picked up. I have to plead ignorance on this because I thought it looked like the silver ore samples I had seen on the internet, but a more rigorous Google search told me it could be one of several minerals. I'll leave it to you experts to let me know what it is. It measures about two inches by six inches by one inch tall.

Thanks for the picture GreenBranch.

What your picture shows is Mica Schist. The second most common metamorphic rock. It is not silver. Silver minerals are usually black or as in the case of rare Silver chloride - dull green or greenish gray.

Mica schist is mostly composed of Mica, a common silicate, with some quartz or feldspar body. Usually the body rock has degraded to clay and the mica is still intact. That's why the shiny bits break off.

Although mica schist can be an indicator of the sort of geologic activity that can concentrate gold and other metals mica is not usually directly associated with those metals. Much like quartz, mica can be an indicator mineral but due to the fact that quartz and mica are among the most common minerals their presence in no way means there will be gold or silver nearby.

 

[GreenBranch]

What your picture shows is Mica Schist. The second most common metamorphic rock.

That's too funny. Hey, I think I found some silver. Uh, no that's a lava rock.

Thanks for being patient with me. Lots to learn.

But it creates a conundrum; who is a newbie supposed to believe? Both you and Matthew Roberts seem to be very knowledgeable about these kinds of things. I guess that's why there's so much conflicting information here and so many different opinions and places people are looking for the LDM. I don't expect an answer to this, just voicing what I'm sure thousands of other Dutch Hunter wannabies have asked themselves. Onward and upward.

 

[GreenBranch]

Not one to let a massive error get me down, I'd like to repost stupid question #3: Has anyone here personally found traces of gold in the dumps or around the various mines I see popping up from time to time on this forum. Other than legend, is there any proof that lode gold was ever found in the Superstition Mountains? I see pictures of different mines people have found but I haven't yet read where they report on samples taken. But again, it may be that I'm not searching the forum properly.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Not one to let a massive error get me down, I'd like to repost stupid question #3: Has anyone here personally found traces of gold in the dumps or around the various mines I see popping up from time to time on this forum. Other than legend, is there any proof that lode gold was ever found in the Superstition Mountains? I see pictures of different mines people have found but I haven't yet read where they report on samples taken. But again, it may be that I'm not searching the forum properly.

A drift mine in the northern half of the Superstition Mountains.

Photo of the entrance (adit) and photo of the interior of the main drift.

No one knows who originally dug this drift of 100 plus feet with a few winzes near the end of the drift.

The entrance was kept purposely small while the interior just large enough to follow the ore vein and work.

Samples of cinnabar, native gold and native silver from the drift have been assayed and analyzed.

T.E. Glover In his LDM book the Golden Dream, used samples from this drift in his ore analysis of gold samples taken from mines in the Superstitions (Mammoth and Black Queen) , Kochera ore and one sample from the Vulture mine at Wickenberg.

The gold photo shows the range of richness and quartz matrix that came from the drift.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Considering that the Mammoth, Bulldog and Black Queen producing gold mines are within the Apache Junction city limits I think it's stretching geography more than a bit to include them in the Superstition mountain range.

In fact the Mammoth, Bulldog, Tomahawk, Goldfield, Yankee, Hillside, Old Wasp and Black Queen gold mines are in the Goldfield mountains which are several miles to the northwest from the Superstitions.

The mines in Miami and Globe have more to do with the geology and mineralization in the Superstitions than the Apache Junction/Goldfield mines.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Considering that the Mammoth, Bulldog and Black Queen producing gold mines are within the Apache Junction city limits I think it's stretching geography more than a bit to include them in the Superstition mountain range.

In fact the Mammoth, Bulldog, Tomahawk, Goldfield, Yankee, Hillside, Old Wasp and Black Queen gold mines are in the Goldfield mountains which are several miles to the northwest from the Superstitions.

The mines in Miami and Globe have more to do with the geology and mineralization in the Superstitions than the Apache Junction/Goldfield mines.

Clay,

It was T.E. Glover who grouped the Mammoth and Black Queen with the Superstition Mountains I believe due to their being within the Superstition caldera. The Goldfields are to the west of the Superstition caldera complex according to geologist Michael Sheridan.

I had nothing to do with the other samples Dr. Glover chose for his analysis. I believe they were chosen because they were believed to be possible LDM sites.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Not one to let a massive error get me down, I'd like to repost stupid question #3: Has anyone here personally found traces of gold in the dumps or around the various mines I see popping up from time to time on this forum. Other than legend, is there any proof that lode gold was ever found in the Superstition Mountains? I see pictures of different mines people have found but I haven't yet read where they report on samples taken. But again, it may be that I'm not searching the forum properly.

Not a massive error. Just an assumption proven wrong. Mica is pretty common but it's also common for newbies to mistake it for something valuable.

The answer is yes, lode gold has been discovered and mined at the Superstition lode mine just east of Apache Junction at the foot of the Superstitions. It was also called the Palmer mine and was originally located as the Buckhorn-Boulder. The mine began producing in 1900, most of the mining work was done in the early 1940s during the war. Production was minimal. It is outside of the Wilderness area on Forest Service managed land at the eastern end of McKellips road.

 

[sgtfda]

My son finally sent a picture of one of the samples he picked up. I have to plead ignorance on this because I thought it looked like the silver ore samples I had seen on the internet, but a more rigorous Google search told me it could be one of several minerals. I'll leave it to you experts to let me know what it is. It measures about two inches by six inches by one inch tall. View attachment 2073259

From the Silver king mine. A gift from Jack. Sucker is heavy!

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Frank, glad to see the Silver King producing once again!

Attached is a pic of my US Navy Shooting Team 1911-A1 that I used at the Fleet Matches while in the service. I also carried it as my service sidearm on what I knew would be my last deployment before I retired. That deployment took it all over the world, and also to OEF and the beginning of OIF. So this pistol means a lot to me.

All the parts were hand-fitted by a dear friend and myself, and it has a Kart National Match barrel and bushing that's ramped and polished to feed any round from hollowpoints to wadcutters. It has always functioned flawlessly and is as accurate as one would expect a hand-built match 1911 to be. The first 5 rounds were all X's at 25 yds.

Years later I was talking to Dave Cook and I told him I wanted a special pair of grips for this pistol. I wanted ore from my home state of AZ, I was thinking maybe copper, or some turquoise, coral, etc. We left it at that, but unbeknownst to me, Dave got to work on a set of grips and he surprised me with them as a gift a few months later.

Dave built the grips shown in the pic. They have Silver King ore inlays, framed with copper wire from AZ.

Dave acquired the ore from a local (I don't know who he was) that as far as Dave knew, came by the ore in the 1950's. When it was actually mined, I don't know.

I think Jack would appreciate this story and pic, so if you have time, please pass it along to him. Take care, Jim

 

[Cubfan64]

Frank, glad to see the Silver King producing once again!

Attached is a pic of my US Navy Shooting Team 1911-A1 that I used at the Fleet Matches while in the service. I also carried it as my service sidearm on what I knew would be my last deployment before I retired. That deployment took it all over the world, and also to OEF and the beginning of OIF. So this pistol means a lot to me.

All the parts were hand-fitted by a dear friend and myself, and it has a Kart National Match barrel and bushing that's ramped and polished to feed any round from hollowpoints to wadcutters. It has always functioned flawlessly and is as accurate as one would expect a hand-built match 1911 to be. The first 5 rounds were all X's at 25 yds.

Years later I was talking to Dave Cook and I told him I wanted a special pair of grips for this pistol. I wanted ore from my home state of AZ, I was thinking maybe copper, or some turquoise, coral, etc. We left it at that, but unbeknownst to me, Dave got to work on a set of grips and he surprised me with them as a gift a few months later.

Dave built the grips shown in the pic. They have Silver King ore inlays, framed with copper wire from AZ.

Dave acquired the ore from a local (I don't know who he was) that as far as Dave knew, came by the ore in the 1950's. When it was actually mined, I don't know.

I think Jack would appreciate this story and pic, so if you have time, please pass it along to him. Take care, Jim

What a great memento of Dave, AZ and Silver King ore - thanks for posting the photo