An Artifact Hunters Dilemma

[monsterrack]

I was talking to an old friend who made the largest discovery of trade goods in the Mississippi Valley ever and I asked if he had it to do over again what would he do different. His response did not take me by surprise after all that I know what the system put him through. His words were( I would not tell a soul about one single item). This man was just an artifact hunter as all of us, he did his home work and put time in the field and when he did make a find, well when the media, politics and everyone got through with him he was next to scum at the bottom of the pond. My question to all of you is, if you found a load of artifacts and then realized you where in a burial, what would you do.
A. Put back the artifacts and cover up the burial an tell the state.
B. Keep what you had found and then cover the burial an tell the state.
C. Keep everything and not say a word about it.
I know that some people don't want to tarnish their reputation in the artifact community, and I understand that. But what I'm asking and was just wondering how many people would have the up standing morals to do the right thing. I know the temptation of not saying anything, I had to make that choice once in my life and it turned out for the good. 18 years ago while hunting arrowheads behind where there had been logging, we walked up on a site that I will never forget. Where the loggers had made their loader zone was on top of 20 graves and every time it got muddy, they would take a dozer and shove mud off the location. They had piled up trade artifacts every where, at first it was a mad dash to pick up items and then it dawned on us that these were grave goods (there was no bones or sign of bones). So after much talking about the pros and cons we contacted the state. When the state got there they took one look at the site and said it was destroyed and would do them no good, ( also said the state did not have the money)he gave us their blessing and we went to work(we had permission form the land owner to hunt artifacts). It did not go that well for my friend(who also had permission to hunt on the land by an agent of the land owner), it became a witch hunt and he was the witch. So what I'm asking and wondering what is the community's thoughts on such a touchy subject (be honest).

 

[lookindown]

NC.. most "mounds" or otherwise piled debris are trash piles basically.
A heaped up pile does not necessarily have any burial.
,.........
Rack.....
Regardless of what conclusion you come up with..I hope you do what you know to be morally correct.
The first thing I would NOT do... is after posting a laundry list of finds photos and info is post that question in an open forum.
That is very leading.

There are hills around where I live that get called Indian mounds...they are not burial mounds and weren't built by anyone, they are natural high areas that the Indians chose to live on. People have even been arrested for digging on these natural mounds. I don't know how they say these are Indian mounds.

 

[GatorBoy]

Mabey the name stuck.. but in actuality they are village sites and protected as such... just a guess.

 

[rock]

Mabey the name stuck.. but in actuality they are village sites and protected as such... just a guess.

True they did prefer a nice hill to flat land. Thats one of the first things I look for when out is small hills.

 

[GMD52]

Interesting thread, and I don,t believe that anyone would knowingly dessicrate a known burial site.....although exceptions do exist!

Here in the Northeast, since most village sites were located on some waterway, I can assume that buriels may have been that vincinity, and subject to decades, and centuries worth of floods and washouts. This has led to burial sites being washed downstream, and the remains distributed over many miles. Human bones being one thing, but found artifacts, once in the burial, are now on the surface, and open to discovery. I know that remains have been discovered here on the Lake, and have been turned over to the Abnaki Nation for reinterrment, but who is to say where and how the artifacts may have arrived at the location?

 

[GatorBoy]

If the artifacts are out of context..and no longer a part of a stratified layer...each are concidered isolated finds by definition..or a lithic scatter at best.
At that point one could only postulate any association of each individual artifact to one or another.
Bone tools would be easier to associate.

 

[monsterrack]

Here on the Ms. side of the river they used a end of a ridge to start their mounds but across the river in La. they had to make mounds just to live on due to rising flood water from the Ms. river. Over in La. if you walk a field and see a rise of more than 1ft you can bet they lived there and you will find sign. On another subject I started this thread because a friend made the wrong choice back in the late 60s and early 70s, he got sucked in by artifact fever and it turned his world up side down. A very good example of what not to do, run a search on (The Tunica Treasure) and you will see what I'm talking about. I bet River Rat has heard of it, it was found just south of me and north of them.

 

[parkercrazy99]

I know of multiple mounds on our property. I have not touched them. No one has touched them. I would like to see whats in them, but the n there would probably be trespassing if the word got out.

 

[Tejaas]

Great thread subject!

My opinion was always to take an active role in telling the history of your region/area/state/etc.

My opinion has changed, however, on the methods to do so.

Example:

My dad is a heavy equipment operator here in the Texas Hill Country. Always rural stuff, like clearing brush for unpaved ranch roads and fence lines, building earthen dams and dikes, stock tanks etc. This career path is the absolute best for artifact enthusiasts, i swear.

Years ago, (1999-2000?) we were doing some cut and fill work with a Dozer and perfectly cross-sectioned a mastodon tusk... We killed the machinery at once and got down to investigate further, finding several molars and associated small bone material. Perfectly preserved, you could actually still see the vein canals and everything.

My mother is an archeology major, and we took more than 100 photos and scale representations and everything for our private collection, but did not disturb anything in the process.

Next we made a phone call over to the nearest University (name withheld).

They sent field teams out and spent a great deal of time doing excavations, laying PVC grids, plotting everything, plaster casting, the works. I learned a lot just asking questions, watching, and got to get down and dirty and dig/scoop/brush some because I was the kid of the owner of the property. I guess they weren't gonna say "no" because they were happy to have a site. Haha.

Fast forward a year and a half or so, and you have NEVER seen more pain and pulling-of-teeth to get pieces back from the college. Pieces that were "on loan" and only lent in good faith to help further science and history of the land that has been in my family since pre-revolution Texas. When it was all said and done, two of the molars were "lost in catalog". Not making that up, that was the actual wording used.

So, in closing. I STILL feel that the history should be told, and I have actually documented and photographed to the best of my abilities pertinent information on significant finds... And even go so far to make contact with departments and let them know what we have found in what areas so that if they chose to they can record or make note in their own ways....

But the sending teams out and whatnot? Those days are over. We feel they violated our trust and the sanctity of private property that was lent on good faith for the purpose of research.

We have an Indian burial site, near countless middens, dinosaur tracks, wagon trails, and pioneer graves on the ranch. The burial areas do not get touched... In fact we make it a point to weedeat and mow and keep the livestock off the immediate area.

The middens, I plan to start a somewhat large scale sifting and screening dig with my family there this winter on one of them in particular.

The dinosaur tracks in the river bed, we continue to visit... As kids we used to sit in them while swimming. They are a treasure and we enjoy just being able to see and touch them.

But the surface-find projectile points, that's another story.
One or two weekends a month my wife and I are back at the ranch visiting, and we, along with mom and dad always go and hunt a couple hours in the evening. We talk, catch up on life, and always head back to the house with some nice stuff in the pockets.

 

[GatorBoy]

Great post.
I think your ranch is my dream home.

 

[rock]

@ T very nice story and yeah I have heard of things like that happening. I sure would like to see some pics of the tracks with your points you have found. In your own post of course I dont think I have ever seen those kind of tracks. Thanks, rock

 

[lookindown]

Mabey the name stuck.. but in actuality they are village sites and protected as such... just a guess.

Yeah, maybe they are protected like historical sites even though they aren't true Indian mounds.

 

[Red Earth]

I could care less if someone digs me up in a couple hundred or a couple thousand years. I hope they do!!!!!! And when they do, I'm guna have all types of artifacts fossils and if i can, even preserve some written pages of my life for them as well. I know what I would do in the situation and thats document and dig. If we don't find out the secrets of the past then how can we truly know who we are. I believe/hope that I will make a significant find someday that will change history and the understanding of human life. I don't need a museum to do it for me. Plus I don't necessarily trust museums and the state. I've read many stories on "large" human remains being found and basically disappearing after "the state" getting involved.
So to answer the question, Yes I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it myself.

 

[GatorBoy]

The desire to explore and discover Is human nature.

 

[Red Earth]

Very true Gatorboy.

 

[GatorBoy]

What saddens me is the huge rift being created between archaeologists and the segment of the general population who actually have the desire to know more.
These are the people who will be most active in putting a stop to real "looting" as they are the feet on the ground.
I would venture to say the majority of new found archaeological sites in North America today are basically dropped in the lap of archaeologists by private citizens.
If things continue to be handled the way I see them now there's going to be very little cooperation in that regard.... to the detriment of everyone.
Our tax dollars pay for most of this work... the way I see it.. they work for us and it is thier obligation to cooperate not dictate.
The term "the people's trust"
Could use some real legal scrutiny in my opinion.
In Florida the "Isolated finds program" was a sound well thought out endeavor... the fact that it failed was because of poor implementation at the fault of the state in my opinion.

 

[Charl]

Many years ago, surface hunting a potato field, I found what I believed were portions of a turtle shell amidst the oyster and clam shells of a plowed up refuse pit. You know the way the back of a turtle shell has segments? I knelt there putting pieces together. Hey, cool, I thought, part of a native meal. Figured I would take it home, not an artifact, just a large segment of shell, browned with age. Set it on the coffee table and when I got home, said "hey dear, look what I found in a field today, who knows how old this shell is". Or something to that effect. She examines it closely and says, to the effect: "are you out of your mind?! You brought home a human skullcap!!! Get it out of here, now!!!" And she was right. It was not turtle shell segment lines, it was skull cap suture lines! Put it outside in the car. The next morning, we both drove to the potato field. A stand of woods next to the field. Took 2 large intact oyster shells from a refuse pit. Set the skull remains nestled inside the oyster shells, dug a hole, placed the 2 shells enclosing the skull cap. The shell preserved it in the first place, the oysters would continue to do that. Sprinkled tobacco in the hole as an offering. Sprinkled flakes into the hole. Filled the hole with dirt, camaflauged with leaves, said a prayer and left. Did not tell the farmer. This person was buried in a refuse pit. It is not unheard of in these parts. I'm not sure if it meant the person was an enemy dumped in the garbage, or what, but refuse pit burials are known. But we left it at that, rather then potentially bring down a world of grief on the farmer. It was not a burial ground. We did what we thought was right for the spirit of the dead and for the farmer as well.


Having said that, digging and finding human remains, I agree with those who say stop right then and there. If you are digging legally, contact the authorities and let them take it from there. Someday I'll relate a real spooky story of 2 guys who dug a burial mound at night and the spirit that paid them a visit while they were going about it! Someday, not today, lol.....

 

[Tejaas]

What saddens me is the huge rift being created between archaeologists and the segment of the general population who actually have the desire to know more. These are the people who will be most active in putting a stop to real "looting" as they are the feet on the ground. I would venture to say the majority of new found archaeological sites in North America today are basically dropped in the lap of archaeologists by private citizens. If things continue to be handled the way I see them now there's going to be very little cooperation in that regard.... to the detriment of everyone. Our tax dollars pay for most of this work... the way I see it.. they work for us and it is thier obligation to cooperate not dictate. The term "the people's trust" Could use some real legal scrutiny in my opinion.

Well said.

It's important to me that I make clear that I 100% approve of archeological studies... But like anything else nowadays the rules, regulations and red tape cripple the whole idea of it.

They operate almost exclusively because of the private property finds by landowners and the bill is footed via the taxpayers dollars. No argument there.

So as a federal or state-sanctioned archeological activity, don't ask to do a study on private property, expect us the taxpayers to foot the bill, THEN try to place limitations and impose measures to lessen the landowners rights on his own place. Archeologist are GUEST that are usually performing in their capacity on faith and goodwill from the citizen landowner who made a find in their backyard who wanted to do something to help tell a part of history.

What absolutely kills me though, is the seemingly countless articles I have read where some archeologist states - in more or less words -that if THEY can't get to it, it should stay in the ground and rot.

So much history will never be learned due to piss poor attitudes by a few people in positions of authority who have the ability to make a change but WONT.

The city/state/federal government doesn't want us MD'ers digging up the lawn of the old so and so historical house in whatever county, I agree 100%. So put the placard up for that house and protect it. But don't have the ideology that because of that one site, therefore they need to make the city park built in 2005 or whatever off limits, just because.

I mean seriously, they build skateparks in cities for kids who are stereotypically known for graffiti, knocking over little old ladies, and wearing their pants below their butts. Why the rush to cover all the grass with worthless concrete? I sure as hell don't want my taxes paying for some crap like that.

Where's our metal detecting parks? Stocked by the city with gold and silver rings and coins for us to find? Haha

 

[Charl]

find human remains...STOP, call authorities...forget what ever artifacts...they belong to the dead guy.

{ I know I am a purist on this one}
I should add. I have returned human remains to the hopi tribe...so do have a history on the topic.

That's a great thing you did, being a purist is the right thing. You might remember earlier this year a large number of Hopi sacred objects, essentially "stolen " from them long ago, went up for public auction in Paris, France. Despite an international outcry and urgent pleas from the Hopi, France does not forbid sale of artifacts deemed "sacred" by living
representatives of the people who created and used the artifacts. Certain ceremonies, in fact, had not been held in years because they needed particular stolen objects to perform that function. Fortunately, there were 2 buyers who at least succeeded in winning 2 of the lots and those two sacred relics were returned to the Hopi.

http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/9360

 

[GatorBoy]

Great posts

 

[NC field hunter]

I could care less if someone digs me up in a couple hundred or a couple thousand years. I hope they do!!!!!! And when they do, I'm guna have all types of artifacts fossils and if i can, even preserve some written pages of my life for them as well. I know what I would do in the situation and thats document and dig. If we don't find out the secrets of the past then how can we truly know who we are. I believe/hope that I will make a significant find someday that will change history and the understanding of human life. I don't need a museum to do it for me. Plus I don't necessarily trust museums and the state. I've read many stories on "large" human remains being found and basically disappearing after "the state" getting involved.
So to answer the question, Yes I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it myself.

I agree with you 100%! I hope I can be of scientific value years a
After I'm gone. They'll find little... My broke tail!