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An interesting conundrum in buying a property with my head or my heart.

What wonderful and dear history, thank you very much for sharing.

This is an incredibly difficult decision. My only advice would be to fly out there and visit it once again. Perhaps once you see it again in-person you will feel which course is the right one.
 
Thank you all for kind comments. It has really been great help.

My dear old mother God rest her soul always said you cannot live in the past, What is done is done. You cannot worry about the future that we have no control over. We can only live as best we can in the present. The past has gone and how we determine ourselves in the present will decide our future.

There is an historic family connection with that place that will always be in the heart. But I live in present and my future is determined by the actions I make in present. As much as my heart loves the place my head says otherwise. First and foremost is asking price its asking price is about 18% over true market value. It is a gulf I cannot cross out of principle. I will not let emotions override the business head.

Here is a comparison to the first This property dating from 17th to 18th century below. is much cheaper in price. About 125 k cheaper.

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It has a wide range of building dating from 17th to 18th century

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There is three holiday lets in operation

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Here to 2 x 2 bedroom apartments below ready generating income.

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As you can see the place is very picturesque.

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The barn complex is ripe for barn conversion in holiday let accommodation

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I could make make complex in seven holiday lets. Increasing income potential.

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There below are ripe for conversion. At the same preserving the heritage and history.

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This property is cheaper than the first and has huge potential.

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As you can see in side it has many historical aspects.

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But not skimping on quality and comfort as historic home.

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So you see having historic connection to a property and facing the practical realty of changing world is entirely different. This last posted property is cheaper and has more economic potential with 3 holiday lets and potential for another four. Is better business prospect. It is still a huge investment of capital. That cannot ruled by the heart.

And practicality I live on the other side of world I have 42 properties. some very modest but all generating income. Some losses are off set on others. I have mix of long term rentals to short term holiday lets. Both have good points and bad points.

I look in business eyes as these historic houses bleed money to maintain.

I envision Care taker couple free rent that look after the property. I get high end tourists income generated as holiday lets. I still have equity in property generating income. holiday lets can be a viable and potentially profitable business, but success depends on careful planning and management. While they offer the potential for higher rental income compared to long-term rentals, they also require more hands-on management and attention.

The question do I really need the extra hassle than what I already have? I am retired even if I keep deluding myself I am retired.

Once again thanks for input.


Crow
 
Well I cannot relate (unfortunately) , which does nothing to diminish the value I’ve placed on your character here, but I’d practically shed blood for heritage and my culture, which is denied me in this era.

I see local pioneer ranchers throwing in the towel, cashing out to give their current living family that lifestyle that allows for that vacation to Italy or to pay off credit cards and build a new house in a gated community on a piece of ground with ZERO connection to the family that sacrificed so much and took such a large gamble to build an empire in a time long since passed. It makes me sad to see $$ trump heritage.

An old house with 3 acres..I’d buy it just to give it to the right grandchild if I had the means despite it not making financial sense. Who does that these days?! Typically not even those with the means.

History is made by the living despite the perceived return.
 
Well I cannot relate (unfortunately) , which does nothing to diminish the value I’ve placed on your character here, but I’d practically shed blood for heritage and my culture, which is denied me in this era.

I see local pioneer ranchers throwing in the towel, cashing out to give their current living family that lifestyle that allows for that vacation to Italy or to pay off credit cards and build a new house in a gated community on a piece of ground with ZERO connection to the family that sacrificed so much and took such a large gamble to build an empire in a time long since passed. It makes me sad to see $$ trump heritage.

An old house with 3 acres..I’d buy it just to give it to the right grandchild if I had the means despite it not making financial sense. Who does that these days?! Typically not even those with the means.

History is made by the living despite the perceived return.
I am hearing you as its sad to see farming dynasties coming to an end. Many people do not know how hard farmer work some times for little return for twenty four seven job. The average age of farmers varies by location and data source, but it generally falls between the late 50s and early 60s. In Australia, the average age is around 56, while in the US, it's around 57.5. The average age in the UK is slightly higher, around 59.

Sadly many family farms with long proud heritage are falling by the wayside. There are several reasons? falling birth rate and fewer younger people taking over such farms. We have a whole generation of baby boomers coming to an end of their working life. A younger generation what ones there is are not interested slogging your guts out for very little reward. In Australia many a farmer ended swinging off a tree after failing to be competitive to market demands. This trend is happened all across the developed world.

In rural county Kerry in Ireland where the farmers who rent land off me are in 70's and late 60's The local village. the majority of people are older. With such low numbers the school struggles to keep open and essential services in the village are slowly disappearing . Because many of houses and farms are sitting empty soulless places without the laughter of children.

I have seen the same story in heart of rural America in little town with boarded up shops. and declining population. Its no unique phenomenon to America either. I seen in Canada, Australia, New Zealand UK , Ireland Europe. we are becoming more urbanized as the countryside is becoming depopulated. Some farms cannot compete. most EU farms don't pay their way. Mostly they are too small. American, and Australian farms are more efficient. But they on average are larger in scale. love it or hate that is economic reality. We have a big population crash coming in next 10 to 20 years.

I hate big cities as for ,me they are empty soulless places. I have soft spot such farms and their history and role in my ancestry. The Welsh on my mothers side and Irish on my fathers side and know the stories well. I pass them onto my children as my parents did with me. I know the history the trials and tribulations and struggle to survive to put me here where I am today. As their journey is my journey. On my property in Ireland there is the triple spiral that represents my heritage in the day we was once warrior in the iron age populating the valleys with laughter and song now silent.

The triple spiral meaning on the rocks there there is three things in life birth death and rebirth in the soul eternal journey.Triple spirals found carved on rocks, often referred to as triskeles or triskelions, are ancient symbols with deep roots in various cultures, particularly Celtic and Neolithic traditions. These symbols are characterized by three interwoven spirals emanating from a central point and are found on megalithic monuments, artifacts, and rock art across Europe and beyond.In Celtic contexts, the triple spiral (or triskele) is a powerful symbol associated with the cyclical nature of life, death, and rebirth, as well as the interconnectedness of the three realms (land, sea, and sky)

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No matter where my body roams in the world, in what ever flag I fly. To remember who I am and where I have come from and where I am going? It is triskele the triple spiral that reminds me I am Always a Celt at heart on the eternal journey of birth, death and rebirth.

Crow
 
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You have nailed it. Yes. I can see it as a perfect self-sustaining property. It has solar power. Water is drawn from a well. The stone horse stable has been converted into a two-bedroom holiday let. I can see great opportunities with the property.

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The Top floor kitchen dinner living area.

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A basic kitchen in the stable

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Two bedrooms downstairs.

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Downstairs is bathroom and two bedrooms.

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Next to the stable is vegetable garden.

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The lower yard has green house.

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The upper yards around the main house.

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it's in a virtually forgotten corner of rural Wales. tucked away from the 21st century.

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The second yard. between the main house and converted stable.

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Old Crow old brain is going million miles an hour developing the place in my head.

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Below is oldest building that predates the house itself by nearly 200 years. It was threading mill and drying Kiln. Dated 14th century.

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The barns can be converted into many things. They date from 17th century.

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So, it got plenty of opportunities.

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The place would be great for someone to live off the gird. Perhaps keep a few pigs, a couple of sheep, chickens. and a large vegetable garden to be self-sufficient. With a holiday let for spare cash.

On the flip side a been 200 meters from the ancient stone church. It would be ideal holiday accommodation with modern barn converted into wedding reception area and the stone barns converted into extra accommodation. An ideal location for weddings. it's only on three acres as the farmland around it is owned by other farms. So, it can never function as it did in the past as sheep farm. Even if it did have the original land that once had. it still would not be competitive. As United State, Canada and Australia and New Zealand sheep farming is 100 times more efficient. EU farm and UK farm as well is Ireland do not pay their way. They only exist from subsidies. They are too small. they cannot compete in economies to scale. Average flock size about 140 sheep per farm average. In Australia the average flock size 2423 flock size. Most farmers there have jobs elsewhere and farm part time.

Yet with its history, location and potential for alternative business enterprises.


Crow
As usual. Great historical information and better yet it is personal because it is tied to your family.

You come from a well storied family and for that I am jealous. The good, the bad, the ugly - It is your story to tell and you tell it well.

That being said I think in today’s world we are missing a connection to each other and to the past. I can only hope that the younger generation wakes up one day and realizes that without understanding the past, and specifically our own pasts, the future is not as bright as it can be (I am only 39).

If it were me I’d buy it. It sounds like you can make a business case for it, which should dampen the financial costs. I just read a financial book called “Die with Zero” I think you make a good case for many of the topic discussed in that book.
 
I am hearing you as its sad to see farming dynasties coming to an end. Many people do not know how hard farmer work some times for little return for twenty four seven job. The average age of farmers varies by location and data source, but it generally falls between the late 50s and early 60s. In Australia, the average age is around 56, while in the US, it's around 57.5. The average age in the UK is slightly higher, around 59.

Sadly many family farms with long proud heritage are falling by the wayside. There are several reasons? falling birth rate and fewer younger people taking over such farms. We have a whole generation of baby boomers coming to an end of their working life. A younger generation what ones there is are not interested slogging your guts out for very little reward. In Australia many a farmer ended swinging off a tree after failing to be competitive to market demands. This trend is happened all across the developed world.

In rural county Kerry in Ireland where the farmers who rent land off me are in 70's and late 60's The local village. the majority of people are older. With such low numbers the school struggles to keep open and essential services in the village are slowly disappearing . Because many of houses and farms are sitting empty soulless places without the laughter of children.

I have seen the same story in heart of rural America in little town with boarded up shops. and declining population. Its no unique phenomenon to America either. I seen in Canada, Australia, New Zealand UK , Ireland Europe. we are becoming more urbanized as the countryside is becoming depopulated. Some farms cannot compete. most EU farms don't pay their way. Mostly they are too small. American, and Australian farms are more efficient. But they on average are larger in scale. love it or hate that is economic reality. We have a big population crash coming in next 10 to 20 years.

I hate big cities as for ,me they are empty soulless places. I have soft spot such farms and their history and role in my ancestry. The Welsh on my mothers side and Irish on my fathers side and know the stories well. I pass them onto my children as my parents did with me. I know the history the trials and tribulations and struggle to survive to put me here where I am today. As their journey is my journey. On my property in Ireland there is the triple spiral that represents my heritage in the day we was once warrior in the iron age populating the valleys with laughter and song now silent.

The triple spiral meaning on the rocks there there is three things in life birth death and rebirth in the soul eternal journey.Triple spirals found carved on rocks, often referred to as triskeles or triskelions, are ancient symbols with deep roots in various cultures, particularly Celtic and Neolithic traditions. These symbols are characterized by three interwoven spirals emanating from a central point and are found on megalithic monuments, artifacts, and rock art across Europe and beyond.In Celtic contexts, the triple spiral (or triskele) is a powerful symbol associated with the cyclical nature of life, death, and rebirth, as well as the interconnectedness of the three realms (land, sea, and sky)

View attachment 2216862



No matter where my body roams in the world, in what ever flag I fly. To remember who I am and where I have come from and where I am going? It is triskele the triple spiral that reminds me I am Always a Celt at heart on the eternal journey of birth, death and rebirth.

Crow

I've an Erin Go Bragh flag in my hideout barn/workshop suspended from the rafters behind my deer hoist.
O.K. there is a pirate flag too but..

No one seems as aware about Mrs. Crow's domestic bliss but you so far.
There are levels above and below keeping the peace that each trigger suspicion.
Unless of course she leans toward property acquisitions with provenance.
Roost location and shiny things possession can shift when domestic situations involve a duffle bag.
The odds of one crow picking the very most highly valued shiny thing (property for example)another crow wanted most during a falling out is to be expected.
But they should value each other more in the first place and not fall out.

I let the option on Dads property go a few years ago.
Debated with myself over it. Sentiment alone doesn't need paint though.






.


.
 
I am hearing you as its sad to see farming dynasties coming to an end. Many people do not know how hard farmer work some times for little return for twenty four seven job. The average age of farmers varies by location and data source, but it generally falls between the late 50s and early 60s. In Australia, the average age is around 56, while in the US, it's around 57.5. The average age in the UK is slightly higher, around 59.

Sadly many family farms with long proud heritage are falling by the wayside. There are several reasons? falling birth rate and fewer younger people taking over such farms. We have a whole generation of baby boomers coming to an end of their working life. A younger generation what ones there is are not interested slogging your guts out for very little reward. In Australia many a farmer ended swinging off a tree after failing to be competitive to market demands. This trend is happened all across the developed world.

In rural county Kerry in Ireland where the farmers who rent land off me are in 70's and late 60's The local village. the majority of people are older. With such low numbers the school struggles to keep open and essential services in the village are slowly disappearing . Because many of houses and farms are sitting empty soulless places without the laughter of children.

I have seen the same story in heart of rural America in little town with boarded up shops. and declining population. Its no unique phenomenon to America either. I seen in Canada, Australia, New Zealand UK , Ireland Europe. we are becoming more urbanized as the countryside is becoming depopulated. Some farms cannot compete. most EU farms don't pay their way. Mostly they are too small. American, and Australian farms are more efficient. But they on average are larger in scale. love it or hate that is economic reality. We have a big population crash coming in next 10 to 20 years.

I hate big cities as for ,me they are empty soulless places. I have soft spot such farms and their history and role in my ancestry. The Welsh on my mothers side and Irish on my fathers side and know the stories well. I pass them onto my children as my parents did with me. I know the history the trials and tribulations and struggle to survive to put me here where I am today. As their journey is my journey. On my property in Ireland there is the triple spiral that represents my heritage in the day we was once warrior in the iron age populating the valleys with laughter and song now silent.

The triple spiral meaning on the rocks there there is three things in life birth death and rebirth in the soul eternal journey.Triple spirals found carved on rocks, often referred to as triskeles or triskelions, are ancient symbols with deep roots in various cultures, particularly Celtic and Neolithic traditions. These symbols are characterized by three interwoven spirals emanating from a central point and are found on megalithic monuments, artifacts, and rock art across Europe and beyond.In Celtic contexts, the triple spiral (or triskele) is a powerful symbol associated with the cyclical nature of life, death, and rebirth, as well as the interconnectedness of the three realms (land, sea, and sky)

View attachment 2216862



No matter where my body roams in the world, in what ever flag I fly. To remember who I am and where I have come from and where I am going? It is triskele the triple spiral that reminds me I am Always a Celt at heart on the eternal journey of birth, death and rebirth.

Crow
Yes, in most instances their children are not interested in the sacrifice that raising animals require. I’m not sure the blame lies at their feet though.

I’m not sure how to say this correctly, but I feel like the older ranchers feel an obligation to their direct heirs (the children that are not interested in the work), so much that they will let things go even if there are grandchildren that could take over the family ranch/farm. As if the heirs are due their inheritance $$ by default, that it would tear the family apart if they didn’t get an equal piece of every penny. Just an odd thought.
 
Yes, in most instances their children are not interested in the sacrifice that raising animals require. I’m not sure the blame lies at their feet though.

I’m not sure how to say this correctly, but I feel like the older ranchers feel an obligation to their direct heirs (the children that are not interested in the work), so much that they will let things go even if there are grandchildren that could take over the family ranch/farm. As if the heirs are due their inheritance $$ by default, that it would tear the family apart if they didn’t get an equal piece of every penny. Just an odd thought.
Its not an odd thought.

Traditionally with the Farms in Wales the oldest son would take over. There was seven in my mothers family. She was the middle one of three daughters. traditionally the oldest son would inherit the farm. In my case if my grandfather inherited the property the property would of been left to oldest son. My grandfather in Royal Army medical corps was not oldest son he was third in line his older brother took of went to America live Galveston and married and Indian women. He had photograph with his family with Sitting bull. He lost his entire family with Galveston storm in 1900 and roamed around American south west and returned to Wales as old man to die in the late 1930s. My grandfathers other brother was drunk he was supposed to be keep an eye on his father during world war one. My grandfather was in trenches fighting Germans.. Even if my grandad had inherited the property it would as traditionally been done left to the oldest son my late uncle who was mining engineer.and then to his son my cousin who is retired accountant. My cousin has zero interest in property as he calls them just a money pit.

This Is the only pictures I have of Grandad a young man. He would been 20 years old in this picture 1915. He was the farmer of the family. By the time I met him in 1978 he was frail bent over old man. a ghost of himself and a virtual stranger to me as I lived in Australia and visited Wales and Ireland in 1978 . he died in 1979. I came back in 1980's but my life was in other countries. you become stranger to family you left behind. In middle of fight on the trenches my great grandad died and will was forged leaving everything into name of house keeper. I looked up his war records he went AWOL to contest the will and authorities caught up with him and he got shipped back to France. Being a researcher I have found his military records that help fill in what happened.

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My grand mother May I never really got to meet. She got to see me as baby. I born in Ireland my father and fathers side of the family was Irish. Mainly from county cork. This is from 1915 she would been 18. When my grandfather returned from war. He married my grandmother , had small tenant farm and had six Kids. But the memory of been robbed of the farm left a bitter taste through generations.

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So technically through my mum I would of never been in line to inherit the property anyway. It was just the way things happened back then. People had lots of kids are there was no guarantees all would survive to adulthood. It is problem with family farms with many siblings. Here is the only item I have from grandfather time at the property. This old teapot very old dating from grandfathers time there at the property. A reminder an a story of how my grand father lost the farm. Not that it was his fault.

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My brothers and sister wanted to throw it out. I inherited of my late mum. It through her I heard all the old stories. Be old sediment-al old fool. I lugged these items all around the world with me. I became parent very late life at time should been a grandfather I have two kids and pass on the story of where they had come from. To let them know where they are the problems their ancestors faced and triumph of where they are today in this world.

So you can see the connection I have to the property. I have life on the other side of world and I have roots growing in that country and my connection to part of my roots on mothers side is almost a forgotten memory. But it was through them that I had love of history and research. In fact it was part of that lead me on my journey to where I am today.

My son and daughter are already learning the stories of who they are. They technically multi millionaires with large trust property port folio. Yet I still expect them to do the hard yards. Otherwise they will never appreciate what they have! They know where they come from and why they are in the place they are today. A bit of hard graft does not hurt anyone.


Crow
 
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In bloody mindedness and Raggedy old Crow stubbornness. Part of me would like to buy this place as I know if my grandparent and mother if they was still alive they would be over joyed. And in symbolic gesture return the tea pot back to where it came from. a 110 year full circle.

Crow
 
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In bloody mindedness and Raggedy old Crow stubbornness. Part of me would like to by this place as I know if my grandparent and mother if they was still alive they would be over joyed. And in symbolic gesture return the tea pot back to where it came from. a 110 year full circle.

Crow
Stay clear of much rum in the decision making process or you'll be needing to knit a tea cozy.
 
I have business interests in Wales already.

I own property already in Wales in Tenby. I do business with company that manages the properties for a holiday let. A get monthly reports.

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Holiday let investment in South Wales can be a great opportunity for several reasons. The region is known for its stunning landscapes, including the Brecon Beacons, Pembrokeshire Coast, and the Gower Peninsula, which attract tourists year-round. South Wales benefits from a strong tourism industry, with visitors drawn to its natural beauty, rich cultural heritage, and historical sites like Cardiff Castle and St. David’s Cathedral.

Coast and Country Holidays saw a strong booking percentage with a 78% occupancy rate throughout summer, even with the current economic climate. In 2024, bookings per property increased by 6%, and revenue per property increased by 5% driven by customers making multiple short-break bookings. These booking statistics show how much holiday letting in South Wales is thriving.

With a growing demand for short-term rentals, especially with popular destinations like Tenby, Swansea, and the Vale of Glamorgan, a holiday let in South Wales can provide consistent rental income. The region also offers relatively affordable property prices compared to other parts of the UK, making it an attractive option for investors looking for high returns, the average income for a holiday let in South Wales is anywhere from £16,000 to £50,000 on premium properties. That is about 21400 USD and nearly 67000 USD. average bench mark.

You can easily optimise your bookings by adjusting your property to attract more guests, such as offering a hot tub can increase your revenue by 37% and allowing pets can increase it by 18%. the farm has scope for those things to develop the modern barn into a reception hall to cater for events.. The two stone barns converted into a three bedroom and 2 bedroom accommodation. adds an extra dimension to the let. to existing main house and stables conversion.

The plan on the left is modern metal barn with no heritage issues. Being split level cold be lines insulated floor re concreted. Has solar panels on the roof. Inside possible bar with sink pluming a pot belly stove a dance floor are tables chair front encased in glass windows double glazed. and few sky lights installed. Inside a ramp to allow wheel chair access from both levels. in corner of the barn two bathroom toilets one with wheel chair access.

The two stone barns conversion three bedroom and two bedroom apartment with open plane lounge kitchen dining area.. Bedroom in the loft. The tin roof remove and converted back to slate roof in keeping in what it originally was except with skylights for bedrooms upstairs. The barn door glass doors and french doors to increase light inside the barn conversion. Say costs for plumbing two bathrooms possible three two kitchens. As small wedding or family function venue it could potentially accommodate 24 people. Have access to church would make it and ideal for self catering wedding reception.

The larger stone barn Conversion cold have down stairs bedroom with en suite design for wheel chair access. this add to marketability for say group that hire out the complex that night have a family member with disabilities.


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The barn metal sheathing re sheathed class widows. area out from made into a parking area. say 10 cars. Insulated inside to give better thermal insulation.

Even if the property has multi uses adjusting to the needs of the customer. short say 3-4 days. Having the main house. the stables. and two optional barn conversion gives the place great options.

I am already working with a management company. So perhaps after number crunching we see what happens.

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One thing i learned with real estate. you constantly paying out expenses repairs things.

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South Wales is a popular destination for tourists, both from the UK and abroad. It offers a variety of experiences, including coastal retreats, countryside adventures, and cultural attractions. This demand for accommodation can make holiday lets a profitable investment. The rise in “staycations” due to changing travel habits (especially post-pandemic) has made domestic tourism more popular. South Wales, being close to major cities like Cardiff and Bristol, is an easy-to-reach destination for weekend getaways or longer holidays.

If managed well, holiday lets in South Wales can offer attractive rental yields. With the right location, marketing, and property management, you can generate significant income during peak tourist seasons. The Welsh Government has implemented policies aimed at boosting tourism and supporting the short-term rental sector, such as tax reliefs or funding for eco-friendly projects. Having amenities that people search for when looking for a property will increase your revenue, adding things such as a hot tub, reliable Wi-Fi, log burners, or even a BBQ in the garden will make all the difference. Properties that allow pets see a significant increase in bookings and revenue, and guests being able to bring their dogs with them is a massive upside to a staycation.

Nearly half of UK holidaymakers are looking for properties that allow pets, especially in areas such as South Wales which has a rich countryside with plenty of dog walking opportunities.

But there is also other factors to consider. Taxation!

The Welsh Government has brought in a new tourism levy, which aims to balance out the economic benefits of tourism with the cost it can cause to local communities that face a high level of visitors. Each county will be rolling these new regulations over the coming years, this tax will apply to overnight stays, including holiday lets, in popular destinations like South Wales.

The tourism levy may affect the cost for investors, taking this into account when doing pricing strategies would be beneficial to keep prices competitive and profitable. The 182-day rule is the key regulation affecting holiday lets, specifically relating to the operation of short-term rental properties. If your property is available for 252 days a year and is booked for 182 days of the year, you can qualify for business rates instead of council tax. This policy was made to distinguish second homes that aren’t rented out regularly from genuine holiday lets. Meeting the criteria to qualify for business rates may be difficult, especially during off-peak months, and those who don’t meet that goal may face reclassification under council tax, often at higher premiums due to second-home regulations in many Welsh counties.

So you see at the end of the day it number crunching. My head is saying one thing my head screaming some thing else.


Crow
 
What a inspiring story and pictures you have presented to us ! I loved every bit of it ! Like you , I also have relatives on my late mothers side of the family that live in America and County Cork Ireland . The draw would be tempting to do if not for many things lie you have discussed ! Home is where the heart is ! Good luck in your decision !
 
What a inspiring story and pictures you have presented to us ! I loved every bit of it ! Like you , I also have relatives on my late mothers side of the family that live in America and County Cork Ireland . The draw would be tempting to do if not for many things lie you have discussed ! Home is where the heart is ! Good luck in your decision !
It's a neat place, beautiful. I'm almost 60 and two homes is enough of a headache. If it were me I would pass, ya can't take it with you. Just my opinion. I don't like being spread too thin.
 

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