Califrornia drought... IS ANYONE out there MDing dry swimholes and lake beds ?

[ARC]

An arrowhead... sheesh... a MILLION in every state...

When I was in boyscouts... they TOLD us to look for em.
We got points for finding them.
AND we got to keep them... go figure.

 

[WILTON]

That's just plain ridiculous...
Sheesh haven't they got anything better to do...
I mean what crapola... ITS AN ARROWHEAD !!! sheesh... made to kill stuff...
Like a bullet...
Why they have to "control" the picking up of an item that is LOST... kills me.
Sheeesh...
Would be different if the guy was excavating a burial mound for em....

This just never seems to make sense to me.

I live in CA. but not for very much longer. I have great antiques that I bought from an outdoor swap meet that ran for yeeeeaaars. The Peoples Republic of Ca. stepped in and required all "vendors" to have a Tax license. They ruined it. The people that came there to sell couldn't afford or qualify for a license. They were just trying to eek out an existence. Nothing is sold there now, that I doubt would interest anyone here. D**#m shame.

 

[CA Gold Hunter]

http://www.actionnewsnow.com/news/stolen-archeological-artifacts-from-lake-oroville-area-recovered/

One of my friends talked to the guy and he apparently knew you aren't really supposed to take them but he didn't think anyone cared that much. They are underwater most of the time anyways. Amazing what government officials will waste money on.

 

[ARC]

I live in CA. but not for very much longer. I have great antiques that I bought from an outdoor swap meet that ran for yeeeeaaars. The Peoples Republic of Ca. stepped in and required all "vendors" to have a Tax license. They ruined it. The people that came there to sell couldn't afford or qualify for a license. They were just trying to eek out an existence. Nothing is sold there now, that I doubt would interest anyone here. D**#m shame.

That is sick...
Most of those people can only afford IF THEY ARE LUCKY... a pack of smokes... a day or 2's worth of food... and gas to get to the market... THEN the spot money for the NEXT time to get in...
only to make enough to do it all over again...
Sheesh.

 

[StBarbara]

I'm looking at photos online of Lake Powell in Utah -- some photos taken just within the past two weeks -- that show vast sandy former lake-bottom areas that are now dry ground. But, I'm not in Utah ...

 

[pepperj]

An arrowhead... sheesh... a MILLION in every state...

When I was in boyscouts... they TOLD us to look for em.
We got points for finding them.
AND we got to keep them... go figure.

I'll first to say I don't know of this lake/water system and why it's protected so forgive me if there's a weird law on the books or some other reason. Though I can see the point/need of protecting an area from collecting regardless of where the area is. If there was an open door policy of letting folks collect artifacts then there would be no artifacts left period. It's the simple truth, and the decision to legislate and to make an area a protected land as a state park, a world heritage, or any other is just that, to be protected. If an area is totally hands off that's what it is, the law, and that includes everything.

In our national parks it's illegal to pick a flower, a stone, anything besides taking a picture or looking at it, it's simply a no-no. Harsh? No, because the laws are there to protect the parks/natural reserves because everybody that wants to pick something can justify the taking of the one item as there is so many.

What difference would taking one make?
Over a period of years there would be nothing for the future generations to see or enjoy, and this applies for anything above or below a water line.

Pre 1967 there was no law here to really protect a Native burial mound, a person could dig it up a take the artifacts and it was just a moral issue, well that changed and a law that protects the native burial sites was enacted.

To pick up an arrowhead is the one way a lot of us started collecting anything, looking for one was hours of family shared enjoyment. Looking for them 50 years ago was no different than today as it takes a keen eye to pick out a point laying there undisturbed since it was dropped/shot an untold amount of years ago. It just has to be on private or in an area that is open to do such collecting.

 

[T.C.]

Museums and universities are full of Native American artifacts. I don't think there is a shortage of them for future generations. Colleges have basements full of artifacts that the general public never has the chance to enjoy. I am long-time friends with an archy. Many of the universities "digs" are financed with private funds. The "crème de la crème" somehow disappears and ends up in the grant donors private collection...SOP
As far as flowers and rocks....your comment is ridiculous....you sound an awful lot like an archeologist

I'll first to say I don't know of this lake/water system and why it's protected so forgive me if there's a weird law on the books or some other reason. Though I can see the point/need of protecting an area from collecting regardless of where the area is. If there was an open door policy of letting folks collect artifacts then there would be no artifacts left period. It's the simple truth, and the decision to legislate and to make an area a protected land as a state park, a world heritage, or any other is just that, to be protected. If an area is totally hands off that's what it is, the law, and that includes everything.

In our national parks it's illegal to pick a flower, a stone, anything besides taking a picture or looking at it, it's simply a no-no. Harsh? No, because the laws are there to protect the parks/natural reserves because everybody that wants to pick something can justify the taking of the one item as there is so many.

What difference would taking one make?
Over a period of years there would be nothing for the future generations to see or enjoy, and this applies for anything above or below a water line.

Pre 1967 there was no law here to really protect a Native burial mound, a person could dig it up a take the artifacts and it was just a moral issue, well that changed and a law that protects the native burial sites was enacted.

To pick up an arrowhead is the one way a lot of us started collecting anything, looking for one was hours of family shared enjoyment. Looking for them 50 years ago was no different than today as it takes a keen eye to pick out a point laying there undisturbed since it was dropped/shot an untold amount of years ago. It just has to be on private or in an area that is open to do such collecting.

 

[DiggerGal]

I'll first to say I don't know of this lake/water system and why it's protected so forgive me if there's a weird law on the books or some other reason. Though I can see the point/need of protecting an area from collecting regardless of where the area is. If there was an open door policy of letting folks collect artifacts then there would be no artifacts left period. It's the simple truth, and the decision to legislate and to make an area a protected land as a state park, a world heritage, or any other is just that, to be protected. If an area is totally hands off that's what it is, the law, and that includes everything.

In our national parks it's illegal to pick a flower, a stone, anything besides taking a picture or looking at it, it's simply a no-no. Harsh? No, because the laws are there to protect the parks/natural reserves because everybody that wants to pick something can justify the taking of the one item as there is so many.

What difference would taking one make?
Over a period of years there would be nothing for the future generations to see or enjoy, and this applies for anything above or below a water line.

Pre 1967 there was no law here to really protect a Native burial mound, a person could dig it up a take the artifacts and it was just a moral issue, well that changed and a law that protects the native burial sites was enacted.

To pick up an arrowhead is the one way a lot of us started collecting anything, looking for one was hours of family shared enjoyment. Looking for them 50 years ago was no different than today as it takes a keen eye to pick out a point laying there undisturbed since it was dropped/shot an untold amount of years ago. It just has to be on private or in an area that is open to do such collecting.

Wow!!!! You sure seem like an educated Environmentalist or an Archie to me (no offense)
The problem with your statement although restrictive beyond other measures is this:
The most basic of all basic..Hypothetical situation;
A family is hiking and a 4 year old is in the stage of "Rocks are cool" and picks up a rock that is in his pocket because he/she is intrigued. Later, to be found long after the hike. THIS HAPPENS ALL OF THE TIME!!! does this mean that the future generations have nothing to discover Of course not! We are talking 100's and 100's of years!
The Museums and Historical Societies have more to show than the room to show it!
I have been refused by Historical Societies in artifacts that I have recovered because they don't have the space or the need for the item.
I abide by the laws that are put forth. I discover artifacts on private property with permission, and in National Forests.
I have travelled behind many families with children that are on a free for all (not that it is right) to where the rules are not followed.
The very statement that you made of "what will be left to discover" is ridiculous as there is so many unfounded places more than founded.
I think it's time to do some research and really dig deep, put your boots on the ground rather than making armchair accusations.....Just my opinion of course.

 

[pepperj]

Wow!!!! You sure seem like an educated Environmentalist or an Archie to me (no offense)
The problem with your statement although restrictive beyond other measures is this:
The most basic of all basic..Hypothetical situation;
A family is hiking and a 4 year old is in the stage of "Rocks are cool" and picks up a rock that is in his pocket because he/she is intrigued. Later, to be found long after the hike. THIS HAPPENS ALL OF THE TIME!!! does this mean that the future generations have nothing to discover Of course not! We are talking 100's and 100's of years!
The Museums and Historical Societies have more to show than the room to show it!
I have been refused by Historical Societies in artifacts that I have recovered because they don't have the space or the need for the item.
I abide by the laws that are put forth. I discover artifacts on private property with permission, and in National Forests.
I have travelled behind many families with children that are on a free for all (not that it is right) to where the rules are not followed.
The very statement that you made of "what will be left to discover" is ridiculous as there is so many unfounded places more than founded.
I think it's time to do some research and really dig deep, put your boots on the ground rather than making armchair accusations.....Just my opinion of course.

No offence taken by your comments.

I stated I didn't know why the Lake system was protected, and I gave the example of the laws of our Park Systems simple as that, right or wrong it's the law, simple as that.
To have an interest in the environment is that a bad thing? As for being an Archie, well I have met a few and that's all, though I have visited a few museums in my life so guilty of enjoying that collections and preservation of relics.

I'm not sure why you're so defensive and stating what museums/Historical Societies have, and the fact that your generous offer was rejected. I never stated anything regarding them in my statement, but thanks for sharing what seemed to be less than a pleasant experience in getting a rejection to the offer.

I never accused you of digging/collecting in protected lands, nor did I accuse the 4yr old of theft. So I thank you for informing me that you have gained permissions to discover artifacts, and abide by the laws.

It's up to the educator of the child to explain the right and the wrongs of doing things, if the parent praises the child as finding a little stone that's one thing, but to collect artifacts as a collective is another thing on protected lands. The 100's and 100's of years is just but a blink of the eye in the timeline of life, and hopefully we'll still be walking around in some form to enjoy the lands and all the natural features (This applies to everything that lay's within it's borders)that have been set aside yesterday and tomorrow for those to enjoy down the road.

The statement of dig deep, put the boots on the ground rather then armchair accusations is duly noted. I'm just a tad confused why you would think that I have no life experiences and everything is just written from an armchair?

It's obvious that I have offended you, and what you see fit to do, also where you do it. That's your own doing and on your own merits and I have no knowledge on how you do it. I just stated my own opinion on a open forum in a general discussion topic, and if in any way I stepped on the civil rights of the citizens in the effected areas I apologize to you all.

 

[pepperj]

Museums and universities are full of Native American artifacts. I don't think there is a shortage of them for future generations. Colleges have basements full of artifacts that the general public never has the chance to enjoy. I am long-time friends with an archy. Many of the universities "digs" are financed with private funds. The "crème de la crème" somehow disappears and ends up in the grant donors private collection...SOP
As far as flowers and rocks....your comment is ridiculous....you sound an awful lot like an archeologist

Your comments on what ends up here and there is right on, and over the years have listened to my stories of donations from private individuals that gone missing in the system. Strange that it happens so often and one would really have to think it was for person gain maybe.

The "rocks and flowers" comment is just how "OUR" laws are written regarding the Park Systems in Canada and in fact it can be taken as being ridiculous I agree to some sense. But it's the law up here TC written in black and white and it's frowned on by the Parks if anyone breaks the law, I didn't write it, I just mentioned it.

It's always a funny thing when folks know the difference between right and wrong they seem to have no problem in accepting the laws as it's just there, but it's really seems to get the heckles up on folks when they hear it, or read it, as then they can't deny the fact there is a law regarding something.

 

[ARC]

Enjoy.. ?
What from a distance ?

I am in no way referring to "burial mounds" etc.
This is a grave and should be respected.
And as far as "Foliage" / "plants" and flowers"... this ALSO should be respected due to the OBVIOUS damage inflicted by the potential "seekers"/"keepers" of these items...

This to me is apples and oranges.

 

[ARC]

An arrowhead is a weapon of death... period...
NOT some "learning" or "historicaly important item" that must be protected... seen one you have seen em all...
Unless it is a "rare one" ...
IN WHICH the public should be encouraged to come forward with the find.
But we are talking about an arrowhead...
MANMADE... not "part of the park"... IT IS TRASH basically...

Like I said... tis like an old bullet...
To leave it laying on the ground is a shame... to loose it AGAIN is stupidity...
At least if someone has found it while camping or hiking etc... it has been SAVED...
Leaving it laying there is irresponsible ... slack... and in my opinion a joke.

Future generations will still also have the potential to see and find these items...
Thats why we have museums to begin with.

If someone see a quarter on the ground in a park... they would pick it up...
Fast forward 50 ... 75... 100.... 300 years... they would STILL pick it up.

BUT ... the problem IS... they will show and tell no one... because "they were not supposed to"...
So...
Moral of that story is the same as all the rest... That "find"... is lost and never known.

No offense PJ

Arrrg... I am SICK AGAIN... heh

And grumpy

Forgive my Cold medicine babble...

My neighbor got me friggin sick "helping" me... heh.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Florida changed it's finds law years ago. Now you can't even pick up an arrow head from the bottom of a river or stream if it is on county, state or federal land....what future generations is it being saved for when your the first one to find it in a thousand years, it has lost all cultural data since it is located in running water, no way to know where it originated from..

 

[pepperj]

An arrowhead is a weapon of death... period...
NOT some "learning" or "historicaly important item" that must be protected... seen one you have seen em all...
Unless it is a "rare one" ...
IN WHICH the public should be encouraged to come forward with the find.
But we are talking about an arrowhead...
MANMADE... not "part of the park"... IT IS TRASH basically...

Like I said... tis like an old bullet...
To leave it laying on the ground is a shame... to loose it AGAIN is stupidity...
At least if someone has found it while camping or hiking etc... it has been SAVED...
Leaving it laying there is irresponsible ... slack... and in my opinion a joke.

Future generations will still also have the potential to see and find these items...
Thats why we have museums to begin with.

If someone see a quarter on the ground in a park... they would pick it up...
Fast forward 50 ... 75... 100.... 300 years... they would STILL pick it up.

No offense PJ

Arrrg... I am SICK AGAIN... heh

And grumpy

Forgive my Cold medicine babble...

My neighbor got me friggin sick "helping" me... heh.

Sucks to be sick and grumpy and being medicated because of it.

I agree on your views of what's natural and what's man made and is trash basically. I guess like everything when writing and not being really good at it it can be taken a whole different way, guilty as I'm just not good at writing as it's something that the sq. peg doesn't fit in the round hole thing no matter how I've worked at it.

Just a short story about the topic. In a Parks System there was a an hotel site from the 1890's, the trash pits were scratched at but never dug out. I was a young kid at the time and we got chased(the family) by the warden for miles down the highway because of being at the site and he wanted to catch us for digging. Bad yes, reason for digging? It's modern man made trash and we're doing the Parks a favour was the view. But they have another view and if it's new or old it's there to stay basically, litter bad, digging out a coin bad, picking up litter good, picking up a point bad. Makes one wonder where the line between good and bad lays.

Get well soon grumpy. I heard that fresh air and some detecting helps with a cold and flu bug?

 

[ARC]

Discovery...
Finding...
Is human nature...
The history that is "stolen" and lost can never be regained.

Only a fraction of those finds are left where they lay...
Me...
I would leave it... For the main reason... I do not like the thought of jail or problems.

But I am afraid I have met MANY who would not just "leave it"...
Nor would they tell anyone.
This is the part that "backfires" on the "control".

 

[T.C.]

....and I might add TH...any surface finds are out of context and are deemed worthless to archeologists!!

Florida changed it's finds law years ago. Now you can't even pick up an arrow head from the bottom of a river or stream if it is on county, state or federal land....what future generations is it being saved for when your the first one to find it in a thousand years, it has lost all cultural data since it is located in running water, no way to know where it originated from..

 

[fongu]

When I watched the news last week and all the lakes and reservoirs were drying up, I had the same idea. Hit it and hit it everyday. Too bad they are in a drought and praying for rain especially for the farmers and ranchers, but what an opportunity for dirt fishing.

 

[coinman123]

I was hiking at a place that had an 1800's cellar hole. Around the cellar hole it pretty much was saying not to pick anything up, not to remove anything (even some rusty nails from the structure). I'm sorry, If I see a large cent just sitting in the dirt it is going in my pocket. Funny thing is, No archaeologist has ever done anything there and none have interest.

 

[pepperj]

I was hiking at a place that had an 1800's cellar hole. Around the cellar hole it pretty much was saying not to pick anything up, not to remove anything (even some rusty nails from the structure). I'm sorry, If I see a large cent just sitting in the dirt it is going in my pocket. Funny thing is, No archaeologist has ever done anything there and none have interest.

It's mine all mine that's what's in their minds or most of them anyways.

Last summer I saw a guy standing beside a cellar hole, the neighbour had given me permission but it wasn't their's to give so I waited. I heard through the local moccasin telegraph that the owner had obtained a severance on the land and this was maybe the reason for him standing there on this trip past. I stopped and we traded pleasantries and I asked if there was any chance of detecting around the cellar hole?
Well the look of total disgust went across this guys face and he said" I know what you are all about," I said "What would that be?" He looked at me and said " I'm an archeologist and I know what you are all about" I replied "No problem, just asking as I always believe that one should get permission from the actual owner instead of a caretaker. ( I knew that the father owned the land ) he kind of looked at me in a surprised manner, as I said my goodbyes and didn't debate his holiness. Now there's two gravelled driveways on top of the site and everything is gone for good, that is the way sometimes with the views of the hardliners "I can't have it/or don't want it, but neither is anyone else going to have it"