CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

LAKOTA-MAN ~

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your observations. The picture below is the only one I could find of a grain elevator located in Wyarno, Wyoming. Unless there is another one you are aware of, I'd say the one in my old photo is different. I looked over every milimeter of the baseball photo under the diamond scope and did not see any other players in it. If what you are referring to as a player is that ? at the center right side of the photo, I looked at that closely and could not make out what it was other than being a blurry blob. That whiteish looking thing in the so called left field is something solid like two wooden post leaning against one another - hard to say - but not a person.

If the elevator pictured below is not the one you were referring to, please let us know. And if the player you see is neither of the the ? I referred to, please let us know that as well.

Thanks again.

Bob

Grain elevator in Wyarno, Wyoming



Original scan

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here we are on Page 5, Reply #222, and I'm not sure we are any closer to identifying the date, the player, his uniform, and the location than we were on Page 1. But I will say this, because of the many generous contributions by members, which I truly appreciate, we most definitely know a lot more about vintage baseball and old grain elevators now than we did a week ago. But as far as dating and identifying go, here's the way I currently see things ...

1. Date ........ Possibly anytime between the late 1880s and the early 1900s.

2. Location ... Possibly any state in the country with a grain elevator - which is about 95% of them.

I hate to admit it, but I'm stumped and have almost run out of possibilites to research. If Tim and his photo crew don't come up with something, I'm not sure where to turn from here. However, this is not to say we didn't give it our best shot, because we did, all of us. But I really need some direction from this point forward, and will welcome any and all contributions that will eventually lead to something, anything, that will help date and locate my mystery baseball player photo.

I'm not done here just yet, but I'm getting close to that. I guess all of my eggs are in the Tim Basket now, and really hope he comes up with something soon.

Thanks again to everyone.

SODA"STUMPED"BOB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

The craziest part of all is, there is probably somebody, and possibly more than one somebody out there who would recognize the grain elevator if they came across this thread and saw my old photo. I realize the elevator may not still exist, but some oldtimer may still recognize it. But just how do you find those somebodies? If even one person were to eventually come along and identify the location of the elevator, then everything else would likely fall into place like the pieces of a puzzle. So where are you Mr. Somebody? Please come forward and help us solve this thing once and for all.

Hmmm ... Maybe I'm the crazy one.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Talk about crazy ...

I just checked to see what a Classified Ad (with a picture) would cost to run it in the nationally circulated newspaper, USAToday and, if I understood it correctly, would cost about $200.00 for a small picture insert, plus $40.00 per line of text. But even if I were crazy enough to run such an ad, what are the odds of someone recognizing a grain elevator that may or may not still exist? And if it doesn't still exist, what are the odds of some oldtimer seeing my ad? Based on my calculations, an ad like the one I have in mind would cost about $500.00. Hmmm ... I better give this some thought.

Bob

USA TODAY Circulation

Monday - Thursday 1,728,413
Friday Weekend Edition 1,981,016

*I believe these numbers are for subscriptions only and do not include newsstand sales.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

If the following is not allowed or considered improper, please let me know and I will delete it ...

I am offering a ...

$100.00 REWARD

... to the first individual who can positively identify (With an accompanying picture) the location (Town and State) of the grain elevator shown in my old photograph. But in order to receive the reward, the accompanying picture and text will need to be posted here for all to see, evaluate, and confirm. The reward will remain in effect until such time as I deem it necessary to withdraw it, which, should that occur, I will announce here publicly.

Signed ...

Bob ... a.k.a. SODABOTTLEBOB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

To show I'm a good sport and that I truly want someone to claim the $100.00 reward, here are a couple of links and suggestions to help you out. Google Images is likely the best search engine there is regarding pictures only without having to sort through a lot of text links. If you have never used it before you have really missed out on a lot of fun, not to mention the shortcutting it allows. But it all depends on the wording ...


The first link below was worded Grain Elevator without a plural s on the end, and indiactes it produced 1,650,000 results. However, the second link was worded Grain Elevators with the plural s and produced 2,240,000 results. So there are lots and lots of ways to word your seaches, and the right wording just might produce the grain elevator we are looking for. I've only scrolled through about a thousand of the various worded images, so there are lots more to find and look at.

Thanks and good luck.

Bob



Grain Elevator

grain tower - Google Search Grain Elevators grain tower - Google Search

[TD="width: 100%"]

[/TD]

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe you could put the image on eBay asking for help.. You would have to make a very high reserve or better yet a high starting price of say $1000 where nobody will bid but there is a fee for this plus the insertion fee.

I think Piggy did this with his Piggnutts. He had no bids but a Korean girl IDed them as Gonjji Stones.. He also had a reward of $50 but he refused to believe the ID and didnt pay the girl. Years later he had to withdraw the reward due to the economy but it led to an exact positive ID...

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Maybe you could you put the image on eBay asking for help.. You would have to make a very high reserve or better yet a high starting price of say $1000 where nobody will bid but there is a fee for this plus the insertion fee.

Big Cy ~

Good idea ... except I am not an eBay seller and would rather not get involved with it right now. However, if you want to list it for me using whatever images and info you need, I will pay for all the cost. And if someone is crazy enough to pay $1,000.00 for it, I will split the proceeds with you right down the middle. Of course, we will have the work out the specifics first as to how and word the request for help identifying it, but that should be easy enough to do. Please let me know what you think and I will provide whatever you need and grant you the necessary permission, etc.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

But before you decide, we better wait and see what Tim and his photo experts come up with. If it turns out that its a 1909 photo of Honus Wagner it could be worth a million bucks.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Honus Wagner ~ 1910



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[Monty]

Hmmmm, I thought it was Honus Wagner. Maybe he was horny and I just didn't know? Monty

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hornsby?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Taking everything into consideration, my current best guess regarding a date is ...

Circa ... 1905~1910

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's a good example of a uniform transition pertaining to a minor league team. The team is from Blair, Nebraska.

Stalcup Family Tree: Old Baseball Photos - Blair, Nebraska

Notice in the 1905 photo they are wearing collared jerseys. However, in the 1914 photo they are wearing collarless jerseys. I realize this is inconclusive as uniform transitions varied from team to team, plus it depended on whether it was a minor or major league team, but one rule-of-thumb I've discovered is that by 1915 the collared jersey was pretty much passe.


Blair, Nebraska ~ 1905




Blair, Nebraska ~ 1914



Close up of 1914 photo showing one team member wearing a two-toned cap.

 

[JasShapiro]

First post for me -
I came to TN as I've been considering buying a metal detector (I live in gold country). This thread hooked me into this site and provided me with several hours worth of entertainment, keeping me up late last night. I've owned quite a few vintage baseball cards spanning back to the tobacco card era, and between my interest in the old cards and inability to walk away from a puzzle, I got reeled in.
I can't add much...but...I did take note of a few things:
1) The player is not centered, as much as the scenery. I find this interesting as when higher-profile players have been the subject, it seems like the scenery becomes more incidental.
2) Your 300 DPI brings a bit more to light. When you looked under magnification, did you look closely at the back of the cap? It almost seems like there may be writing on the back of the cap in an arched fashion? It may be nothing?
3) I agree with several other posts regarding the pose/posture. It looks like it's more of a practice throw, a bit of a blur makes it seem like a lazy side armed toss.
4) The players shirt looks like it was recently tucked in, not appearing to be 'bloused' or billowed, as can come from much prior movement
5) I don't think I recall from any previous posts a note regarding a second distinct white mark at the top of the right sock. Anomoly?
6) Although it's unlikely, I don't think the cap can be considered 'only' two-toned. Although it's doubtful, I've seen a few pictures of tri-toned jockey caps (probably never used for ball-playing, but who knows?!)
7) Unless the picture is REALLY early, I have doubts about it being a Wagner, although I wish it were!. It looks to me like this person is fairly young, maybe mid-twenties, give or take a half decade (anyone else?).
8) I recommend speaking with an arborist, the trees should hold some valuable clues.
9) Just concurring, also take it to someone that specializes in old photos/ephemera regarding analyzing the composition.
That's it, for now. I don't think all avenues lead to a complete dead end on this one. As for value, I'm glad you didn't sell it for $75. The entertainment value alone must be above that of a decent meal at a fine restaurant!
My two cents with interest,
Jason

 

[Ammonhotep]

Just to toss out another idea, this baseball player could easily be Canadian.

It seems to me that it's not just one grain elevator in the background, but two. That would make it an elevator row, in Canadian terminology. As I just read on Wiki, all but two of these elevator rows were destroyed by the end of the 1990s. One of these is called the Warner Elevator Row. You'll notice a distinct difference in its construction from the Inglis Elevator Row (the other row still standing). The principle elevator in your photo appears to have a two-tiered top, unlike that at Inglis. Perhaps that could help identify a elevator company. Long shot, but I thought I'd toss it out there.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I noticed the distinct white mark at the top of the right sock too, but didnt know what to make of it.

 

[JasShapiro]

Bob, I was wondering if you have tried enlisting the help of the owners of grainelevatorphotos<dot>com. It seems like they have enough experience with the topic of grain elevators!
Jason

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I received a reply from Tim Wiles / Baseball Hall of Fame this morning, who said my photo was taken ...

"between 1900 and 1909."

He did not elaborate as to how they arrived at this particular date range, but I suspect there is something specific about the 1909 cut-off as opposed to 1910. (And because I don't want to bug him again, I will just accept his evaluation at face value and leave it at that). He also said they were unable to identify the player because of the camera angle.

I appreciate the recent contributions and will take each one under consideration during the course of my ongoing research. At least we have an expert opinion now regarding the date, which is saying a lot and something that I am totally thrilled about. Otherwise, I'd say any additional identification boils down to the quandry of identifying the grain elevator(s), if that's even possible.

Thanks again to everyone.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

Tim just sent me a quick reply to summarize by saying my photo was taken ...

"Sometime during the first decade of 1900."

Which is close enough for me!

Bob