Civil War era Buckle marked C F J

[Breezie]

Hey Gang, I found this buckle B.S. (before snow ) in an area that has produced finds from Rev.War/Civil War up to V Nickels. It is 1" long, brass and is marked C . F . J . with the dots spaced apart. I found one almost identical to it in Howard Crouch's book, and he states: A typical suspender buckle of the Civil War era. Actually 1" long, this specimen is gilted brass and marked "Paris" and "1854."[ I haven't been able to find out any information on the CFJ company. All help and ideas would be appreciated. Breezie

 

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[Breezie]

Last question breeze, someone said that the third photo down was not your buckle, what is that, from a scanner? Is it or is it not your buckle scanned? If not, is that another buckle you have or something someone sent you as an example, I'd like to see those scans if possible. I also wonder how many buckles have been collected by MD hobbyists and brushed off as a clothing piece, prob. many!The 3 photo in my original post is a pic of my buckle lying on a page from Howard Crouch's Civil War Artifacts book.

"Fort Bragg occupies an irregularly-shaped parcel of land, covering approximately 160,700 acres (or 251 square miles), that stretches into four counties and Camp Mackall covers an additional three counties. Fort Bragg occupies 161,000 acres , stretching into six counties. Included within this area are Camp MacKall (an auxiliary training complex), 7 major drop zones, 4 impact areas, 82 ranges, 16 live fire maneuver areas, and 2 Army airfields. As we focus on potential force protection threats, we must consider the fact that approximately 75 percent of our acreage includes ranges, deployment and training areas, with the remaining 25 percent dedicated to those areas where people live, work and play. Fort Bragg is a major city, providing approximately 20 million square feet of office buildings, 11 shopping centers, 28 restaurants, 11 miles of railroad lines, a major medical center, 8 schools, 11 churches, 183 recreational facilities, and approximately 5,000 homes housing over 11,000 family members"Ft. Bragg is about 100 miles from where I live and found the buckle.


Now depending on the type of area terraine, if you weren't anywhere near a drop zone, the chances that you stumbled upon an old crash site or an old military maneuver area is high. When you were in the area you need to cover a specific amount of area around that buckle to figure out what fell exactly. With training, there is recovery where the important pieces are recovered (like a large parachute for example), if it wasn't training, something was dropped in that area and it came from cargo. If the cargo is still there, a mystery. If there are other relics that were around the cargo a big possibility if it wasn't training. How deep did you dig for the buckle?I can't remember exactly, but I'm thinking about 6 to 8 inches. To me personally that is an interesting find, to someone else maybe not.Thanks again, Breezie

 

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[Breezie]

author=lottarocks
Was it a sandy area or a rough area? Neither, it was basically grass and dirt.Trees or open land area?Open land with a few border trees. Also, the metal are you sure that is brass looking closely at it does it look like a brass relic or could it possibly be steel or another material.It's brass.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Well said Big C lottarocks I have posted a link for you, there are 38 pages of buckles, many exactly like Breezie's...all date them to the same time era, and for the same function http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=18947&cat=177

SS

Ok in your book, the buckle time era was when exactly ? the function was exactly what ?
any mention of paratrooping? what does it say about the use of the buckles on civil war era style pants
and where can i get good references online to see more examples of buckles through history (BTW that website you sent me was a great ref. site in general)

Something else that is important is that for years German + American Special Forces have been working together with shared tactics, like here for example FT BRAGG: http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/10/3...oopers--team-up-for-joint-airborne-operation/

The Book gave you the time era, it gave you the function..you just didn't look

Here's a hint for you...get some better glasses http://buy.ecplaza.net/search/1s1nf20sell/spectecles_glasses.html

 

[Silver Searcher]

Yet another link of yours that links to little information to prove anything

First you say the website I sent you was a great refrence, now you say another link, that links to little imformation to prove any thing ....keep taking the tablets

Post a photo of the glasses, a little big no?
I thought it held up the pants, no it holds up glasses, wait no...
pretty necklace, heavy hardware even for shooting, pretty sturdy hardware
for pants...not parachute pants ...but regular styled pants....

even military regulation glasses are ugly but not that ugly nor large...



"The .45 Colt cartridge is a handgun cartridge dating to 1872. It began as a black powder revolver round developed for the Colt Single Action Army revolver, but is also a common magnum level handgun hunting round in modern usage. This cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 and served as the official US military handgun cartridge for 19 years."


To Quote Nana40

"Says it was made in Germany.
Another first for me to find was a REM/UMC Colt 45 shell. It's a keeper.
Found a neat little buckle with the word SOLIDE on it. Dates the site.
but I was a bit surprised to find it here at this site as the site is older than the tax token era. icon_scratch These houses were not on the late 1800's map, but according to the 1905 maps, there were quite a few in this same area about 500 feet apart. Then they're all gone on the 1910 maps. icon_scratch I got to wondering what could have happened to all these places for them to be gone in a five year span. and sure enough in 1908 there was a tornado outbreak that went right over this area. So my theory is that in one day everyone on this hillside lost their homes."


GG&G M2 Carbine Para-trooper
Federal Specification GGG

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Lootorocks, I tried to go back and read you posts with an open mind but its very hard to sort out anything of value from the rambling babble. Please, you need to try and stay on topic and keep your posts precise and to the point. What was the purpose of talking about slavery? Was that really necessary?


If you think this buckle is related to the CEF, you needs to provide some evidence. You have confirmed nothing.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hey Breezie, I found a buckle with C.J.C. I dont know what it means. Maybe the buyers personalized initials. Maybe you can write the seller.


This listing is for Vintage Metal & Enamel Buckles.
All have 2 tongues, nice working pivot and 1" "opening" tho some slightly smaller & larger.
All marked, one plain, one "SOLIDE" with fluer-de-lis, one same mark but brass tongue, the smallest marked "PARIS" on one side and "C.J.C." on the other.......see the pics please~!~

And the bottom pic has the initials G.G.G.

 

[Breezie]

Wooooo-Hooooo BCH, great detective work. I'll email the seller to see what I can find out. Thanks so much, Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Too late, I already bought them hours ago.
Easy big guy, don't be so sure of yourself just yet.

Did you ask the seller any questions?

 

[Breezie]

Too late, I already bought them hours ago.
Easy big guy, don't be so sure of yourself just yet.

Did you ask the seller any questions?

BCH, yes, I emailed via ebay and asked about the C.J.C., and will post the answer as soon as I hear. Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Too late, I already bought them hours ago.
Easy big guy, don't be so sure of yourself just yet.

Did you ask the seller any questions?

BCH, yes, I emailed via ebay and asked about the C.J.C., and will post the answer as soon as I hear. Breezie

Yes I know. I was asking lottarocks because she said she bought them hours ago but it appears she was mistaken.

 

[Breezie]

I received an email from the seller of the buckles on ebay, and she did not know what the letters meant, BUT I did receive an email from someone who has researched these buckles and this is what was said: These buckles were imported to the U.S. from France, and were made by French Button makers. The initials were often the makers marks. Yours being marked C.F. J probably stood for Cordier Freres. Cordier Freres made white metal 1 pc. Eagle buttons worn by several Union regiments (PA & MA) during the Civil War. Some were also worn by the 72nd Reg. of NY. Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

the thing about the early Division is that the original designers making the clothing for the French troops, were later very famous designers. Like Jacquard for example, he made cloth for the parachutes.
Later "Jacquard" style came about in designer handbags.

Jacquard was making fabrics for the new parachutes coming into play with the earliest divisions, he had the loom, the buckle you have looks to be a military cargo buckle.

The earliest Special Ops Divisions were getting stuff handmade from Paris.

I wouldn't be positive about any of the initials just yet, a lot of it was handmade and early designer stuff

The special ops divisions were getting their stuff personally handmade and it was the first designs for different NEW technologies being created with aviation (parachute gear/etc.) The first division of aviation were trying to get this look and later it was copied again and again in fashion years down the road...

I really need to see it up close I'm wracking my brain with different possibilities
We might be looking at the mother of all Designer Cargo Handbags.

But it is authentic alright

The very first Special Ops Divisions for example would be like fire fire fighters coming together in NY
There are different things that come into play with this whole mess of a find (a great one, and a confusing one too)....First 1. It is Special Ops, it came from a real piece of military cargo, authentic, original 2. The initials could mean numerous things but it is a mark, and matches the other Paris buckles in various ways, C F J C - FJ Parachute - which was named after Jacquard and later incorp. into everything military/aviation related, there is the Canadian Special Forces which were also in the earliest Division with Special Forces and sort of links up with the other buckles early British military shield (the dots), there is an FJ Parachute that was made by Jacquard that came from Germany and also original Jacquard (that the military wanted to replicate after the German paratroopers), there are so many things and I'm going around and around with it.

Its kinda hard to learn lottarocks when you refuse to listen to anything anybody tells you. You are sounding like a raving lunatic. The way it works around here is if you think Breezies buckle or the Paris Solide buckles are early parachute gear or resemble the parachute buckles that you used in the 70's, it will be necessary for you to produce a picture. Anything less than that will continue to be ignored, moved and/or deleted. Posting pictures of modern Gucci bags will not suffice. Does this make any sense to you?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

Lol Bigcypress we're talking fashion designers now, you wouldn't understand

Try me. You might be surprised. Im always willing to learn. Or are you just making excuses?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

Lol Bigcypress we're talking fashion designers now, you wouldn't understand

Try me. You might be surprised. Im always willing to learn. Or are you just making escuses?

Quick tell me the simple symbols for Baby Phat, Bebe and then a little higher end... Manolo Blahnik designer shoes

We are not IDing Baby Phat, Bebe, or Manolo Blahnik designer shoes. We are IDing a 19th century brass buckle. Ive been trying to be nice to you because you are new but you refuse to listen to anybody. You have already had one thread moved and the other completely deleted because it didnt make any sense. Are you for real or are you a troll?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

ok if you don't want help with it then whatever, im not trying to be a pain in the ass, im trying to figure out who made the buckle to, 1 things for sure, it's from special ops earliest division buckle, i got that part right... we're looking at a chunk of rusted metal and i close dated it and said it was military didn't i? that's pretty good for a piece of rusted metal with 3 letters ..no?

I have been trying to help. I found the eBay buckles. May I suggest something? You should concentrate your efforts on finding a picture of a parachute buckle that either matches in design or any buckle with the letters C.F.J.
I dont believe you have produced any evidence whatsoever to support your claims. You seem to have a wild imagination.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

Question: were any old buckles made of gold or no? I'm not a buckle collector so I have no clue, also can gold rust, what about gold content inside old pieces, i'm not familar too much with really old metals and metal content
As for Cortier, that's hot, like Cartier pieces ... gold and lovely metals mmmmmm

Canadian Expeditionary Force wasn't producing --deleted-- early on that's for sure

You said it yourself what has been obvious to the rest of us.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

The Germans called them stormtroopers, the CEF earliest division i'm trying to locate what their earliest bags looked like but it was basically an assembly of bags put together, not like what you would think a ructsack looked like later in time

We have a lot of savvy people here and you will need a picture. Good luck.

 

[kuger]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

O.K.I have been trying to stay away(this was already solved),but this like a car wreck.I have been hunting hard for three days am really tired but now I am confused!!Didnt somebody get some info from E-Bay or something about this company being affiliated with the Civil War(which most everybody on here already knew)?Now why is Lotsarocks claiming special ops and parachuting again! Oh,yea,gold doesnt rust

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

You want pictures from the earliest first divisions, look them up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cfpresley/History_of_the_United_States_Air_Force

WE GOT SURVEILLANCE ITEMS HERE, WHO CAN ID THOSE PIECES PLEASE
NANA'S POST, PULL ANYTHING "SOLIDE" YOU CAN FIND, I DUNNO WTF THIS IS
BUT WE MIGHT NEED TO CONTACT THE GOVT I DUNNO WTF. EARLY COLD WAR
STUFF BEGINNING YEARS AGO

WHO SPECIALIZES IN GERMAN ITEMS
THE WAY THIS LOOKS IS GOING INTO COLD WAR AND THE SURVEILLANCE GAMES PLAYED
BY ALL SIDES, THIS IS WAY F'ED UP

NO DONT CONTACT THE GOVERMENT!! QUICK LOCK ALL YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS, DELETE ANYTHING ON THE SUBJECT OF SPECIAL OPS SOLIDE BUCKLES JUST TO BE SAFE.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Civil War era Buckle marked C F J-UPDATE-See last post

DESCRIPTION: Offered to you is this WWII original German medical doctor’s set used for Ear-Nose-Throat (ENT) exams. Comes in original storage case. These were issued to doctor’s in the field hospitals of the Wehrmacht during WW2. The set features Dr.Ziegler’s Head Mirror with protective pouch, Laryngoscope, Fraenkel Nasal Specula and Ear Exam Cones. The head mirror strap is made of quality natural leather with SOLIDE buckle. SOLIDE was a respected German company making buckles since 1862. Very attractive set. Scarce and highly collectable items in great condition.

German WWII items were destroyed at a great scale after the war by all participating countries. A couple of years ago we were able to completely buy out probably the only untouched military warehouse of leftover captured German WWII equipment including some precious Lazarett field hospital equipment and sets. Most of our items come in original, boxed and unused condition since the war. Most of the German military and medical items that we own and currently sell are among the only left of its kind in the world. Our stock is limited and like every good thing will soon come to an end, so take advantage of this opportunity to own authentic German WWII items.

I believe SOLIDE means solid in German as well as French. Comes from Latin. It would not be unusual to have the word solid printed on a buckle. I dont think its the company name but maybe If you remember some SOLIDE buckles also say PARIS.


It appears these buckles were used from 1864 up until WWII. The all brass buckles are the oldest and like I said before, the steel and brass were made later like the one you found here and the ones on eBay. Good research to expand the dateline. We had originally thought only up til the 30s but this could be a 30's piece of equipment.

Its possible that these buckles were used for many different uses but pants was the most common. Breezies buckle is most likely for pants. The buckles that are patent dated, are CW era.