Discriminating with a PI machine

[Billinoregon]

I've been told it can't be done, but here is Clive Clynick's metal detecting tip No. 5, which seems might well apply when using a pulse machine:

Where possible, work in all metal mode. To improve your accuracy, learn to confirm your targets in all-metal to save needless digging. Recognising narrow, round non-ferrous indications is the most important skill you can have with any detector.

How many of you who use a PI feel confident NOT to dig every target?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

You cannot discriminate with a pulse induction machine - PERIOD. You can use your time and experience on the headphones to GUESS what that double beep or grainy growl is, but you can't discriminate. If you are not digging all targets in the wet sand and water, then why did you get the PI in the first place?

I think they want the depth of a PI but also want discrimination....is the only advantage to using a PI the increased depth?

Lookindown & Terry: A logical question of : If someone's planning to try to pass nails and iron, then.... at a certain point, you gotta wonder: Why not just simply get a standard machine ?

The pat answers usually given are these:

a) "The pulse can go deeper".

Response: In the old days (late '80s early '90s) this was usually true. But it's not so true these days. There's many discriminators that can push a foot deep on coins while effortlessly passing nails. Heck, if you cared to learn the Sov/Wot combo, that is nearly 14 to 15" on coins, all while passing nails. 12 to 14" is about the depth of most beach pulse machines. So you see it's not necessarily true that pulse goes deeper these days. However, if you're talking some power house like the TDI (wide open with no attempt to pass nails), or the GPX nugget machines, then sure: they can do up to 2 ft. on a coin. Then it would be true. But for normal beach pulse machines, the depth gap has been closed in the recent decade or two.

b) that you can get tinsel fine chains and earing studs.

Response: Yes this is true. But with the downside of also getting birdshot, staples, bread-tie twisties, bobby pins, etc... to insane depths also. There are conditions of target thickness where you are actually wiser to elect to go ahead and miss the occasional "earing stud" or tinsel thin chain, if that meant having to dig 100 nails. Because it's like Las Vegas odds: Would you rather dig 100 nails to find that one tinsel thin chain ? In that same amount of time you could have dug 3 gold rings. In other words, what's the best use of your time ?

c) the pulse cuts black minerals that shut down standard machines.

Response: This is true. This would be the only reason I'd switch, if that were an issue on beaches here where I'm at. Fortunately, few zones ever have that much black. And ironically, when such patches DO form (at the bases of cuts, or the exit of gully washes from the hills), is when erosion is going full bore. And when conditions like that exist, then depth is no longer an issue. In those conditions speed becomes the name of the game, and targets are prolific to choose from. So even though I'd loose depth in black conditions, yet I bet that if I put the pulse in those isolated spots, I'd go crazy with nails anyhow. So again, what's the point ?

 

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[sandswimmer]

Not every beach is loaded with nails ( can count # found on one hand), Birdshot (never), bread ties ( Nope) staples (nope), bobby pins (yep, but not discouraging) sinkers/hooks (yep, don't mind them....even split shots).....A PI can have it's place to be used, you just have to live there. I live on the Gulf with hundreds of hotels that bring in hundreds of thousands of tourists yearly. Conditions and targets are suited for both machines that I use. Lots of MDers out here daily with their ExCals & CZ20 cleaning up the fresh and not so fresh drops, myself included, but when finds get minimal from hours of hunting I go to my DF. This is a hobby to me, I have and enjoy being out on the beach, I enjoy talking to people, I don't mind digging......I'm not in competition with others, time spent is not a concern. I hunt a lot, but not every day, but when I do get out with the PI, I find some good targets, some interesting targets and some trash, but I always have a good time even if it's not gold or silver in the scoop.
I used to fish with a good friend as a kid till my early 20's...we always had a great time, fish or no fish. He later became a fishing guide. Now it's all business to him, I won't even go out with him any more. Thinks he has to tell me how to fish, what knot to use, my reels are too old, don't use that line, don't use that lure/bait, don't fish there, don't do this don't do that,...geeze!! Give it a break, Not everyone looks at this "Hobby" the way others do. When you take the fun out if it, It might as well be a job. SS

 

[Tom_in_CA]

sand-swimmer: Yes, if a person is on one of those type beaches where it's strictly touristy, and doesn't allow beach bonfires (which introduce nails), then sure: The iron ratio isn't punishing. In that case, you can have the best of all worlds with a pulse.

Not sure about where you're at: But if those no-nails beaches you speak of ever erode down to thick beach hunt conditions, could this nail-ratio you speak of change ? Because we also have a few beaches here that fit the "touristy with little to no nails" description here too. And yes: some guys have gotten away with pulse machines on them, and only have to deal with some bobby pins and fish hooks now and then. Tolerable enough.

But on those EXACT SAME BEACHES, all bets are off when it erodes down to thick target conditions. Because now you're not just dealing with current days/month/year's losses. Perhaps then all those nails (and coins) that were previously not within detection range, are now all compressed into the top inch. Such that those same beaches are now punishing nail ratios. Because perhaps there were prior generations of burned down piers or past industrial/commercial usage, etc... That wasn't in the current touristy usage patterns.

 

[lookindown]

Lookindown & Terry: A logical question of : If someone's planning to try to pass nails and iron, then.... at a certain point, you gotta wonder: Why not just simply get a standard machine ?

The pat answers usually given are these:

a) "The pulse can go deeper".

Response: In the old days (late '80s early '90s) this was usually true. But it's not so true these days. There's many discriminators that can push a foot deep on coins while effortlessly passing nails. Heck, if you cared to learn the Sov/Wot combo, that is nearly 14 to 15" on coins, all while passing nails. 12 to 14" is about the depth of most beach pulse machines. So you see it's not necessarily true that pulse goes deeper these days. However, if you're talking some power house like the TDI (wide open with no attempt to pass nails), or the GPX nugget machines, then sure: they can do up to 2 ft. on a coin. Then it would be true. But for normal beach pulse machines, the depth gap has been closed in the recent decade or two.

b) that you can get tinsel fine chains and earing studs.

Response: Yes this is true. But with the downside of also getting birdshot, staples, bread-tie twisties, bobby pins, etc... to insane depths also. There are conditions of target thickness where you are actually wiser to elect to go ahead and miss the occasional "earing stud" or tinsel thin chain, if that meant having to dig 100 nails. Because it's like Las Vegas odds: Would you rather dig 100 nails to find that one tinsel thin chain ? In that same amount of time you could have dug 3 gold rings. In other words, what's the best use of your time ?

c) the pulse cuts black minerals that shut down standard machines.

Response: This is true. This would be the only reason I'd switch, if that were an issue on beaches here where I'm at. Fortunately, few zones ever have that much black. And ironically, when such patches DO form (at the bases of cuts, or the exit of gully washes from the hills), is when erosion is going full bore. And when conditions like that exist, then depth is no longer an issue. In those conditions speed becomes the name of the game, and targets are prolific to choose from. So even though I'd loose depth in black conditions, yet I bet that if I put the pulse in those isolated spots, I'd go crazy with nails anyhow. So again, what's the point ?

Very good points.

 

[lookindown]

Not every beach is loaded with nails ( can count # found on one hand), Birdshot (never), bread ties ( Nope) staples (nope), bobby pins (yep, but not discouraging) sinkers/hooks (yep, don't mind them....even split shots).....A PI can have it's place to be used, you just have to live there. I live on the Gulf with hundreds of hotels that bring in hundreds of thousands of tourists yearly. Conditions and targets are suited for both machines that I use. Lots of MDers out here daily with their ExCals & CZ20 cleaning up the fresh and not so fresh drops, myself included, but when finds get minimal from hours of hunting I go to my DF. This is a hobby to me, I have and enjoy being out on the beach, I enjoy talking to people, I don't mind digging......I'm not in competition with others, time spent is not a concern. I hunt a lot, but not every day, but when I do get out with the PI, I find some good targets, some interesting targets and some trash, but I always have a good time even if it's not gold or silver in the scoop.
I used to fish with a good friend as a kid till my early 20's...we always had a great time, fish or no fish. He later became a fishing guide. Now it's all business to him, I won't even go out with him any more. Thinks he has to tell me how to fish, what knot to use, my reels are too old, don't use that line, don't use that lure/bait, don't fish there, don't do this don't do that,...geeze!! Give it a break, Not everyone looks at this "Hobby" the way others do. When you take the fun out if it, It might as well be a job. SS

Im with you...I love the beach so there is never a bad day at the beach, no matter what I find...I like talking to people and taking in the day...everyone is different and there is no right or wrong way to go about this hobby...do whats right for you...with that said, I do love myself a gold ring in the scoop.