DOUTSCH OSTAFRIKA

[mwanyu]

We used to to study in History,

1811 Antique

But whats so special in it?This precious thing belongs to a Grand Woman but nothing can be explained.



Please advise whats good about it.

rgds

 

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[invent4hir]

Hi, if possible post some more pictures with a size reference. Also, where is the artifact found? What did you study in history - the artifact, Grand Woman, or both? Post what you learned. The more details you can provide the better chance someone will be able to explain what is special about it...

 

[chub]

Better Pics please with a size reference

chub

 

[Retired Sarge]

I find the fact that Deutsch OstAfrika is spelt Doutsch OstAfrika to be interesting. Yet I haven't been able to find any references with it spelt that way in a Google search.

 

[invent4hir]

ffuries, I saw that too. Trying different languages in Google translator, "Doutsch" is the Arabic and Hindu spelling for German.

 

[Retired Sarge]

ffuries, I saw that too. Trying different languages in Google translator, "Doutsch" is the Arabic and Hindu spelling for German.

Aha, tried looking for the palm tree with flanking lions as a coat of arms, family shield, logo etc and came up blank thus far.

 

[invent4hir]

Aha, tried looking for the palm tree with flanking lions as a coat of arms, family shield, logo etc and came up blank thus far.

Same here, guess great minds think alike! Anyways, Dar es Salaam is in Tanzania, which was part of Deutsch OstAfrika. However, that colony existed from 1885 to 1918 - so not sure what the 1811 or other characters refer to. Hoping the OP posts some more info - as determining what purpose the artifact was/is used for may help.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Same here, guess great minds think alike! Anyways, Dar es Salaam is in Tanzania, which was part of Deutsch OstAfrika. However, that colony existed from 1885 to 1918 - so not sure what the 1811 or other characters refer to. Hoping the OP posts some more info - as determining what purpose the artifact was/is used for may help.

Yeap a search of....

Doustsh Ostafrika
Star 1811 star - 0620 - J
LBS diamond 76

.....Didn't lead to any leads either!

 

[crashbandicoot]

Just for yuks,I tried too,no dice.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Just for yuks,I tried too,no dice.

LOL......What's our next ideal on searching.......

I'm trying to decide if it's some sort of cup/container or pestle (From a mortar and pestle set).

 

[Red-Coat]

What is it made of? It’s difficult to tell if it’s metal or pottery. Is it a vessel (container)?

An emblem with similar imagery appears on this flag, however it’s a fantasy flag:



It was created by someone on the ‘Deviantart’ website as what the flag of the (non-existent) Protectorate of the German Central Africa (Flagge des Schutzgebietes Deutsch-Mittelafrika) might have been in an alternate history scenario for WWI, if Germany had seized more colonies in Africa than was the case and hadn't lost the war.

The creator (a poster named ‘LinumDeactivated’) said that it was “inspired by other German colonial flags and coats of arms”, so he may have found the emblem somewhere in relation to an African state. However, when I did a Google image search for the emblem, nothing came up… but Google offered: “Possible related search: fictional character”.

The term ‘Doutsche Ostrafrika’ could refer to the German East Africa Company (Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft) or the actual colony of German East Africa (Deutsch-Ostafrika) but the company wasn’t formed until 1884. The colony followed on from that when the company has to call in the military to suppress a revolt in what is now Tanzania and then progressively handed full control to the German government from 1891 onwards. If the ‘1811’ on the item posted is actually a date (rather than some kind of serial number) it can’t relate to either the company or the colony.

The company flag featured a stylised representation of the constellation of the Southern Cross, but they also used the arms of a single lion under a palm tree:



Neither the colony flag nor its arms featured palm tree/lion emblems but it’s possible there may have been unofficial emblems in use since the actual arms (with an eagle) weren’t officially granted to the colony until 1914.

 

[invent4hir]

My next idea is put this thread on the back burner until better pics and/or some more details are given. Lots of other threads to ponder...

 

[Red-Coat]

There was also a German shipping line (Deutsche Ost-Afrika Linie) but it wasn't establshed until 1890, and didn't use any emblem including lions and a palm tree.

Both Gambia and Sierra Leone have used elements of that imagery as emblems, but not the two lions supporting a palm tree as depicted on the mystery item.

 

[xaos]

What I suspect, is you are looking at a container used to ship mercury.
"Doutsch" refers to Germany in a German dialect used in Luxembourg...

Historically, Luxembourg was an elemental mercury producer...

Now the 1811 and 76 pounds makes sense!

 

[Retired Sarge]

What I suspect, is you are looking at a container used to ship mercury.
"Doutsch" refers to Germany in a German dialect used in Luxembourg...

Historically, Luxembourg was an elemental mercury producer...

Now the 1811 and 76 pounds makes sense!

View attachment 1946872

Mercury was used in mining wasn't it?

 

[Red-Coat]

What I suspect, is you are looking at a container used to ship mercury.
"Doutsch" refers to Germany in a German dialect used in Luxembourg...

Historically, Luxembourg was an elemental mercury producer...

Now the 1811 and 76 pounds makes sense!

View attachment 1946872

Maybe it is a mercury container, but this still doesn’t make complete sense.

The two rupees coin you’re showing was issued by the German East Africa Company (Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft) and has the arms they used, as I already showed in post #11. However it’s not the same emblem as on the presumed container.

Certainly they were involved in mining in East Africa (for which mercury might well have been a necessary commodity), but the company didn’t exist prior to 1884. Their inability to maintain control of the African territories for which they had been granted a charter led to full colonisation for German East Africa under direct control of the German Government from about 1891, but there was no concept of a colonial 'Deutsch Ostafrika' before 1885.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Maybe it is a mercury container, but this still doesn’t make complete sense.

The two rupees coin you’re showing was issued by the German East Africa Company (Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft) and has the arms they used, as I already showed in post #11. However it’s not the same emblem as on the presumed container.

Certainly they were involved in mining in East Africa (for which mercury might well have been a necessary commodity), but the company didn’t exist prior to 1890. Their inability to maintain control of the African territories for which they had been granted a charter led to full colonisation for German East Africa under direct control of the German Government from about 1891, but there was no concept of a colonial 'Deutsch Ostafrika' before 1885.

Could it have a Dutch connection? I know the Nederlands was in Africa as far back as the 1600s, and Deutsch and Dutch have been used interchangeably by people for years.

 

[pepperj]

Flask is a British unit of mass or weight in the avoirdupois system, used to measure mercury. It is defined as 76 pounds (34 kg).

 

[Red-Coat]

Could it have a Dutch connection? I know the Nederlands was in Africa as far back as the 1600s, and Deutsch and Dutch have been used interchangeably by people for years.

The Dutch weren't really in East Africa, apart from the island of Mauritius (east of Madagascar, off Africa's southeast coast), which was an an official settlement of the Dutch East India Company between 1638 and 1710.

 

[Red-Coat]

Flask is a British unit of mass or weight in the avoirdupois system, used to measure mercury. It is defined as 76 pounds (34 kg).

That makes complete sense... and the 'flask' became the standard unit for commodity trade in mercury across many countries.

What still isn't clear is whose flask was it, what is the emblem, and how does a date of 1811 work for German East Africa, when there was no German colonial activity before 1884/5... unless it's not a date at all but some kind of serial number?

Date-wise, German East Africa ceased to exist when Germany lost WWI in 1918 and was dissolved the following year.