Dowsing, is it real or fake? Your opinion

[Tom_in_CA]

That's perfectly fine if it didn't work for you.
Doesn't mean that it doesn't work for others.......

The same logic works to make any other TH'ing method equally valid, right ? Nothing can EVER be said to be absurd, illogical, un-scientifically workable, etc..... That's why my tennis shoe method is totally outside the realm of critical analysis. It's to be given total credibility. And even if someone tries it, and it didn't work, that doesn't mean it's not still totally legitimate. That only means "it didn't work for you".

Kind of like this: I can say that zebras fly if you toss them off the empire state building. And you can toss 100 zebras, and they all fall to the ground. I can just say "they chose not to fly this day". Or "I guess your zebras just didn't have the gift" . Or "durned that south wind last Thursday anyhow". You see how at no point are you ever allowed to conclude that zebras can't fly? You just haven't seen it personally. And you aren't pitching them off the roof with the right angle and spin, etc.... Hence you have to give full credibility to the possibility of zebra flight, right ?

This is how some people can view the notion of a coat-hanger pointing to gold an acre (or a mile or whatever ) away.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

....Do you have faith in or believe in God? If you do...then how can you prove your faith in Him to those that don't believe that He exist?
Dowsing is much the same situation. God works for those that believe in Him just as dowsing works for those that believe in it.....

ah now THIS I can accept !! You hit the nail on the head goldkey. If you chalk it up to some supernatural spiritual type powers (that move the rods perhaps), then yes, I'm totally on-board with this explanation.

However, you will quickly find yourself at odds with a whole host of other dowsers. A lot of them tend to "distance themselves" from such explanations, fearing that this puts them into the realm of supernatural, or occult, or mystical, spooks, etc... Thus instead most dowsers will tell you that there's a scientific explanation. Not one to be chalked up to spooky and/or faith-based things (spirits, etc....). And they make great efforts , with many $20 words, to attempt to explain the rods reactions. Or if all else fails, they say it's "undiscovered science" (that someday future science will come to the rescue of and explain).

If dowsers would come right out and admit what you're saying, then I'd be on board. I believe in God. I believe in supernatural things. However, that's not the explanation that dowsers give. So are you sticking by this explanation, or is it a scientific explanation? Take your pick. Am anxious to know

 

[aarthrj3811]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/dowsing/444118-dowsing-facts.html
Read and weep with your tennis shoes

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom show one person who says your tennis shoe works.....

I gotta admit, this is good sound logic You're right: No one on earth is supporting/proposing tennis shoe method. However many are proposing the dowse idea. Hence no need to dis-prove something that no one believes in, to begin with. Very good

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The same logic works to make any other TH'ing method equally valid, right ? Nothing can EVER be said to be absurd, illogical, un-scientifically workable, etc..... That's why my tennis shoe method is totally outside the realm of critical analysis. It's to be given total credibility. And even if someone tries it, and it didn't work, that doesn't mean it's not still totally legitimate. That only means "it didn't work for you".

Kind of like this: I can say that zebras fly if you toss them off the empire state building. And you can toss 100 zebras, and they all fall to the ground. I can just say "they chose not to fly this day". Or "I guess your zebras just didn't have the gift" . Or "durned that south wind last Thursday anyhow". You see how at no point are you ever allowed to conclude that zebras can't fly? You just haven't seen it personally. And you aren't pitching them off the roof with the right angle and spin, etc.... Hence you have to give full credibility to the possibility of zebra flight, right ?

This is how some people can view the notion of a coat-hanger pointing to gold an acre (or a mile or whatever ) away.

I have seen my utilities dousing work more times than I can count. I have seen other people do it as well.

Have you ever been successful with your tennis shoes, have you ever seen your tennis shoes work by anyone? No, why is that, because it was something you made up and threw out to mock..

Remember the warning on mocking. Members in the dousing forum have a right to their forum with out being attacked or mocked by other members...

 

[Nitric]

Dowsing does work for a few reasons. And Tom it is scientific. I thought about this for a few months....Utility dowsing can have possible explanations. Other types of dowsing work for the dowser. I don't think it's spiritual. Depending on what that definition is.

So, No, it won't work for you Tom. Parts of it won't work for me. Utility dowsing does work for me. I think it's from the ground, or possibly knowing about where it might be from unconscious? clues.

That's just my opinion. I think it's all in fun or a tool. If it works for someone great! If not? Then get a detector!

I'll try the shoes! Why not? My luck would be stepping on a nail though! Since my detector is very good at finding them!

 

[TheRingFinder]

I have worked telcom for over 42 years, started with Automatic Electric which was General Telephones installation force in 1973 installing step offices, then #1EAX, #3, and last GTD#5 COs, after 16 years went to work for Wiltel that was sold later on to LDDS and formed Worldcom. I worked 16 years for them, then 10 years for what became Windstream before I retired, total telecom 42 years 6 months...

I was field tech, the only field tech for the company with in 120 miles in any direction. have personally located fiber cables thousands of times, fiber was not in an easement with copper, it was only fiber easement, cross country between St Louis and Kansas City, carrying 20 DS3 between the cities, had 3 regens and one pop to maintained, equipment, transmission systems were NEC and Fujitsu, worked on many fiber cuts and spliced fiber hundreds if times. It is not required to carry signal or voltage to be located it was only grounded at each splice points.....

In 1990 Missouri river jumped banks and ripped our fiber up, we had to lay over 35 miles of temp fiber tying it to fences, trees and what ever else we could find till we got through river then trenching it in the ground, working 7 days a week in 105 degree heat. We almost lost I-70 then...

I guess it make me wonder why AT&T would spend millions of dollars on LMS locating units, when they could just hire dowsers for 30 bucks in an hour? Plus all fiber routes are mapped very well with depth and location. All telecom's have this information.......I'll be down in Florida soon, I'll let you know when and we can meet up for a demonstration if you have time. I would love to see it in action!!! I'll even buy dinner and drinks!!!!

 

[TheRingFinder]

That's perfectly fine if it didn't work for you.
Doesn't mean that it doesn't work for others.
Seems that this thread is all about opinions and sure...everyone has one.
Tom and I have went toe to toe on this before and he absolutely refuses to pick up a rod and try it...yet he has opinions based on " No Experience".
By definition those aren't opinions.....that's total blind guesswork. Which is not appreciated by those that have experience whether it be good or bad.
Do you have faith in or believe in God? If you do...then how can you prove your faith in Him to those that don't believe that He exist?
Dowsing is much the same situation. God works for those that believe in Him just as dowsing works for those that believe in it.
I would rather come to this forum and discuss with other dowsers about things we learn along the way...rather than spend time and energy with those that don't believe in it.
If I didn't believe in the ability to dowse...I wouldn't waste my time in this forum. What's the point? And besides...we know what opinions are like don't we....everybody has one.

I did believe in the ability to use dowsing, though I proved myself wrong - so that theory goes down the drain.
Comparing dowsing to the belief in God - now that's a far reach.......don't ya think?

 

[Nitric]

I did believe in the ability to use dowsing, though I proved myself wrong - so that theory goes down the drain.
Comparing dowsing to the belief in God - now that's a far reach.......don't ya think?

Like you I did believe(still do) just have a different understanding why. Or what I think. That really doesn't mean much though! I have seen drain pipe,and other pipe found with it. Still think it was a taking in your surroundings that you really don't realize. The dowsing rods are just a focal point? Or tool to concentrate on. So, in a sense....Toms tennis shoe would or could possible work in some cases. in a way. I think it would be harder. But might possible work in way. I guess it just depends on the person and what they think makes it work for them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

TH'r, I think we "jinxed" each other at exactly 6:59pm. I had just gone out to admit threw me for a good loop in logic. I have to admit. That crunched my "tennis shoe" analogy, by correctly pointing out that no one (neither of our's sides) is espousing /believing in this notion . Therefore the dowsing side has no obligation to dis-prove something, that no one believes in, to begin with

Anyhow, good point. (I'll deny I said this later, doh!)

 

[aarthrj3811]

Dowsing works for me as it does for 95% of the people who try it. I don’t know exactly what makes it work and it makes no difference. I don’t have to know anything except how to find the signal line, follow it and mark the spot. ...Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... The dowsing rods are just a focal point? Or tool to concentrate on. .....

This notion has actually been advanced by some dowsers. That when it's all said and done, they're merely taking in subtle clues from their surroundings. But this is a little odd, when you think of it. Because in my book, the only thing this explanation does, is disprove dowsing. I mean, that there is any actual attraction scientifically going on that moves the rod ("attracts it" to something, etc....). So I sometimes wonder if the dowsers who have entertained this theory, realize it's not bolstering the notion of dowsing, in the first place.

Example: I know a guy who is SO skilled in nuggets (he is amongst the top nugget md'rs in the CA sierra nevadas). He has gotten so good over the last 30-ish years, that if you take him out to any terrain there (valley, hill, creek, canyon, etc...) he can look around, and point to the most likely place that nuggets will occur and deposit at. So what difference is that "6th sense of experience" and dowsers who tilt their rods this way or that way ?

So too might it be when a dowswers who think they're getting positive hits in the direction of "likely looking ruins" or "an out of place tree", etc... Afterall, those are the most likely spots that people congregated at in the old days. Doh! If dowsers accepted this "subconscious clues" theory, then that would actually serve to disprove dowsing, not bolster it.

Yes TH'r, I know this doesn't square with your underground cables experience. You have said in the past that there is absolutely zero clues on the terrain, right ?

 

[Nitric]

This notion has actually been advanced by some dowsers. That when it's all said and done, they're merely taking in subtle clues from their surroundings. But this is a little odd, when you think of it. Because in my book, the only thing this explanation does, is disprove dowsing. I mean, that there is any actual attraction scientifically going on that moves the rod ("attracts it" to something, etc....). So I sometimes wonder if the dowsers who have entertained this theory, realize it's not bolstering the notion of dowsing, in the first place.

Example: I know a guy who is SO skilled in nuggets (he is amongst the top nugget md'rs in the CA sierra nevadas). He has gotten so good over the last 30-ish years, that if you take him out to any terrain there (valley, hill, creek, canyon, etc...) he can look around, and point to the most likely place that nuggets will occur and deposit at. So what difference is that "6th sense of experience" and dowsers who tilt their rods this way or that way ?

So too might it be when a dowswers who think they're getting positive hits in the direction of "likely looking ruins" or "an out of place tree", etc... Afterall, those are the most likely spots that people congregated at in the old days. Doh! If dowsers accepted this "subconscious clues" theory, then that would actually serve to disprove dowsing, not bolster it.

Yes TH'r, I know this doesn't square with your underground cables experience. You have said in the past that there is absolutely zero clues on the terrain, right ?

I worked from 11am yesterday till 5am this morning then drove 8 hours home. so, I might not altogether be with it! I guess, it would depend on the definition of the individual dowser. I was talking to my Dad who believes it works for locating pipe and wire. I had almost the same discussion as yours above... He says....If it works, even if it is uneven ground, or clues, or whatever? it still works. So, I couldn't argue with him! If he doesn't say how it works? Then I can't argue that it doesn't! There is nothing to disprove. So, for him it works! Just like it does for me(on pipe) or TH. I know what I'm trying to say, have no clue if it makes sense right now! I'm a Zombie today!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I guess it make me wonder why AT&T would spend millions of dollars on LMS locating units, when they could just hire dowsers for 30 bucks in an hour? Plus all fiber routes are mapped very well with depth and location. All telecom's have this information.......I'll be down in Florida soon, I'll let you know when and we can meet up for a demonstration if you have time. I would love to see it in action!!! I'll even buy dinner and drinks!!!!

Sounds good.....Get down here Sept 5th and we can watch "Mighty Mouse" Demetrious Johnson vs "The Magician" John Dodson in the UFC Flyweight Championship, its going to be a barn burner. Maybe get in a beach hunt too...

Yes I had locator, a Metrotech, many times it was broke and un-reliable and it didn't help locating other utility companies cables either....

 

[Nitric]

Sounds good.....Get down here Sept 5th and we can watch "Mighty Mouse" Demetrious Johnson vs "The Magician" John Dodson in the UFC Flyweight Championship, its going to be a barn burner. Maybe get in a beach hunt too...

Yes I had locator, a Metrotech, many times it was broke and in reliable and they didn't help locating other utility companies cables either....

I was just all over FL in a week. Bradenton,fort myers,fort laudedale,west palm,orlando,daytona,melborne, back over to largo and home. I wish I would have more time there! I would like to have met some of the Tnet members! I stayed on Daytona beach but was so tired I slept in and went straight to the job. There is so much I wanted to check out but didn't have the time! Cool place! A giant playground!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I was just all over FL in a week. Bradenton,fort myers,fort laudedale,west palm,orlando,daytona,melborne, back over to largo and home. I wish I would have more time there! I would like to have met some of the Tnet members! I stayed on Daytona beach but was so tired I slept in and went straight to the job. There is so much I wanted to check out but didn't have the time! Cool place! A giant playground!

You were in Orlando and didn't let me know...... Your on a timeout...[emoji12]

 

[Nitric]

You were in Orlando and didn't let me know...... Your on a timeout...[emoji12]

I was only there one afternoon and it was so hot! That was Fri. I'm not sure what part. All the buildings I passed said cooper. Then when I was done working went to Daytona. So, I had no time to even think! lol I hope to make it back with more time!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Tom, a good dowser can use your tennis shes for dowsing, so ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, a good dowser can use your tennis shes for dowsing, so ?

Ah, so therefore TH'rs objection, that no one believe in that method working , isn't viable . I now have someone who admits it can work. Ok then, the challenge is back on the table. It's no longer possible for TH'r to point out that since no one believes in it, that it need-not-be-necessary to dis-prove.

thanx Real de Tayopa!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom my statement stands, there will be no further mocking of members......

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