Emeralds Found near Key West????

[Red_desert]

You would think that the sterncastle might be almost empty, considering the path it took before coming to a rest. But, it was loaded with the finer treasures of the ship. Any amount of treasure left, should be more than sufficient. A second hurricane hit later, the year the Atocha wrecked, really scattered stuff around, perhaps the reason the Spanish soon gave up serious salvage attempts.

 

[BeginAgain]

There were no loose emeralds on the Atocha's manifest, so the contents of the entire "Emerald City" are remnants of an enormous amount of contraband. This would lead the average person to believe that other ships that went down along with the Atocha could have had emeralds on board as well. Just a thought.
Jake

 

[Red_desert]

I wonder if, a person had one of those raw emerald stones cut, whether it would add value or destroy it's value as an artifact?

 

[cornelis 816]

As far as the sterncastle goes I have to tell you a thing . Having sailed the seven seas I am quite familiar with currents and winds . In what direction is the debris trail of the Atocha ? Considering the direction the Atocha was sailing and the prevailing winds at that time , when the sterncastle broke off from the mid section and the prow of the ship this part of the ship sailed on for quite a while losing its cargo and as such forming a debris trail . The midsection of the ship was about even with the waves and was slowed down a bit . The stern section however , not being loaded quite as heavily as the mid section ( with the ballast ) popped up out of the waves and was blown past the midsection and finally sank quite a ways away from the midsection ( in the same direction as the debris trail ) in a direction of the wind at that time . So that is where you should look for the stern castle . The stern castle does not exist anymore . It was destructed a long time ago . However the goods are still there . Just my idea ! You may believe this or not , but it is worthwile to check this , don'you think ? Cornelius

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I think emeralds from an unknown Spanish shipwreck will not have the provenance or glamor value of say, Atocha emeralds. You find things for sale from less known wrecks that are pretty spectacular but were not as marketed as Atocha items, and they are passed for quite a bit less. Even Atocha items seem to be getting cheaper these days. Perhaps the mystique is fading a bit, or it is just that times are hard.

I look at it as the possibility that a lot of good shipwreck emeralds may be coming on the market soon, at reduced rates from the historical highs we have seen in the past. These jewels were ment to be used by somebody. Its great to save some for display, but then the rest should go commercial and be faceted up and sold.

I don't know how it will go. Maybe litigation will tie them up for years. Just what went on seems kind of vague. Where they came from is kind of vague. Not a lot of transparency so far. That may hurt the marketing in the short and long run. I feel like the other shoe has yet to drop on what is going on. I'm going to watch and wait. The pictures look pretty good so far.

I look at the total weight of any shipwreck stone in carats and think, 'when cut down, what kind of gem will come out of this?" I think about the color, transparency and shape. There are Atocha emeralds still around that are low grade chips that you can't do much with. It will take a good marketing plan to get the most out of them. You could see some steepness at first that never equals demand, then fire sales later, then some kind of basis for their value. Look at the recent marketing of synthetic yellow diamonds and moissanite if you want examples. Both are cases where the marketing was and is bad, and prices never realisticly equaled demand. There aren't a lot of great 2 carat emeralds available out there. Should be interesting to watch.

 

[BeginAgain]

As far as the sterncastle goes I have to tell you a thing . Having sailed the seven seas I am quite familiar with currents and winds . In what direction is the debris trail of the Atocha ? Considering the direction the Atocha was sailing and the prevailing winds at that time , when the sterncastle broke off from the mid section and the prow of the ship this part of the ship sailed on for quite a while losing its cargo and as such forming a debris trail . The midsection of the ship was about even with the waves and was slowed down a bit . The stern section however , not being loaded quite as heavily as the mid section ( with the ballast ) popped up out of the waves and was blown past the midsection and finally sank quite a ways away from the midsection ( in the same direction as the debris trail ) in a direction of the wind at that time . So that is where you should look for the stern castle . The stern castle does not exist anymore . It was destructed a long time ago . However the goods are still there . Just my idea ! You may believe this or not , but it is worthwile to check this , don'you think ? Cornelius

Looking at the design and type of vessel, it does kind of make sense. As we all know, the ballast pile was found a long time ago and to the best of my knowledge they assume the stern would have broken off and sank well before the midsection containing the heavy ballast. Therefore they've have been looking for the sterncastle BEHIND the ballast. Interesting note, Cornelius!

 

[Salvor6]

The Atocha sank intact, sitting upright with its masts sticking out of the water. The 5 survivors were found clinging to the masts. One week later another hurricane ripped the Atocha in half, sending the stern section tumbling in a northwest direction. I saw a chart in Mel Fishers office that shows the debris trail. It is heading northwest making a large arc as the wind direction was changing.

 

[BeginAgain]

The Atocha sank intact, sitting upright with its masts sticking out of the water. The 5 survivors were found clinging to the masts. One week later another hurricane ripped the Atocha in half, sending the stern section tumbling in a northwest direction. I saw a chart in Mel Fishers office that shows the debris trail. It is heading northwest making a large arc as the wind direction was changing.

Wow, you are absolutely right about the second hurricane, i completely forgot reading about that. Is it possible, since the debris trail is in an arc, that the rotating wind currents along with the sea current brought the stern about full circle before it finally sank? A hurricane rotates counter clockwise so I imagine in theory it could have blown the stern northwest and then south and eventually southeast as the hurricane started to pass. That and the ocean currents in the area could have taken that stern section on quite a strange ride before it finally gave up the ghost... just a thought

 

[cornelis 816]

Think about it Salvor . The hull had to be open to deliver a debris trail . So no matter what the Spanish story was , there had to be a breach in the shipe hull . The only way to have a debris trail is when the stern broke off and the prow sticking a little higher ( because of boyancy ) than the railings gradually dropped the cargo on the sea bed . If the whole ship came to rest on the sea floor before the stern breaking off ( the hull being in situ ) there could not be a debris trail as found on the Atocha site . So the Spanish may have a mistake made somewhere . This would not be the first time this happened . Think about it a little . The stern should be to the North West of the debris trail . Just my conclusion . Cornelius

 

[Salvor6]

No one was there to actually witness the stern section breaking off. Its just that no cargo listed as being packed in the stern (like the gold) was found on the main ballast pile and no wood from the stern. And no Begin Again, the stern did not make a full circle. The debris trail is in an arc heading towards the northwest. So far the salvors have followed this arc a distance of 10 miles from the main ballast pile but it does not make a full circle. Not even 1/4 circle. The archaeologists believe the stern section was tumbling along the bottom, not floating.

 

[BeginAgain]

No one was there to actually witness the stern section breaking off. Its just that no cargo listed as being packed in the stern (like the gold) was found on the main ballast pile and no wood from the stern. And no Begin Again, the stern did not make a full circle. The debris trail is in an arc heading towards the northwest. So far the salvors have followed this arc a distance of 10 miles from the main ballast pile but it does not make a full circle. Not even 1/4 circle. The archaeologists believe the stern section was tumbling along the bottom, not floating.

Well that explains a lot then LOL I was thinking it was still FLOATING... Man, I've got a lot to learn hahaha!

 

[cornelis 816]

No not a full circle !!! About the stern castle tumbling on the ocean floor , yes because the upward force was equal to the waight of the sterncastle . But.. this was only tru when the timbers of the sterncastle were water-logged . Before this water logging the sterncastle was still floating . The sterncastle was moved to the north west and after that moved still some more over the bottem of the Gulf bottom . There is too much to say about this story . Everybody has his owm story to tell about where the sterncastle is . I have mine and I would like to discuss my ideas with the people in charge of the Fisher legacy . Cornelius

 

[cornelis 816]

Any comentary ? Or.......is this not important enough for you . Cornelius

 

[Salvor6]

Sorry Cornelius. I'm busy with my own shipwreck project, working full time at the machine shop and trying to negotiate a salvage contract with a foreign government. According to Mel Fisher, he told me the sterncastle had 5 tons of treasure unaccounted for so I don't think it would float after breaking off the hull.

 

[cornelis 816]

Salvor 6 . You know how many cubic feet of solid timber there is in a stern castle ? This amount would easily lift 5 tons of cargo with room to spare . Cornelius ( ps what are you working on . Maybe I can help you )

 

[aquanut]

Pete, not here...

 

[cornelis 816]

Pete . Reading your PM it struck me that you picked a country to work in . You asked me for possible wreck locations . But ..... I would suggest that you look for a possible wrecksite and than go to that location ( country ) . Otherwise you are going on a goosechase . You may find a wrecksite but it will take a lot of time . And ..... you don't even know the name of the wreck or her content . You have to shoot your arrows at the target and not shoot the arrows at a possible target somewhere . Just my idea Oete . I try to find some possible targets for you and I wish you happy hunting . You may be lucky . So just follow yor dream . Cornelius