Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

That is around the time I received the bad new from the Doctors..i could no longer dive,, I could no longer Peruse my hobby of Dredging for gold..I bought a gold only LRL and it paid for it self on the way home..I have been finding gold with LRL’s and MFD’s every sense...Art

 

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[EE THr]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

SWR

My message is quite simple but you're kidding yourself; "We don't want you participating among us", so simple. Frank and honestly. If I would have power in this forum to ban you or keep you out from my thread, you would be out long time ago but I can't. I'm being honest with you.

Arch

Arch---

When working on a new project, criticism is one of your most valuable factors. It can prevent a person from making wrong assumptions and going down the wrong path, wasting lots of time and money.

But if a person believes his ideas are workable, and continues on his "bright idea" path, he should establish some landmark proofs for himself along the way, or he can end up out on a limb.

In my opinion, the very first proof one should establish for himself on the MFD idea, is that there is some kind of initial target signal, or a stimulated return signal, which can be electronically detected. This would not necessarily require high power in the transmitter. Even a target five or ten feet away could establish an identifiable signal of some kind. After that, it would just be a matter of increasing the range.

But if one plans on merely transmitting a strong signal, without verifying the best frequency first, and then using dowsing rods to try and sense a return signal, then he would just be right back to dowsing.

Also, there can't be a transmitter blasting at the same time that a receiver is tuned to the same frequency, or even a harmonic or subharmonic, because the transmitter will drown out any smaller signal returning from the target. That is very basic radio electronics knowledge, and just plain common sense, also. So even a very low powered experimental unit would need to handle that problem first, then test for the best frequency to get a useable return signal.

My opinion would be that shopping for a high powered transmitter would be putting the cart in front of the horse, because it has not been established yet exactly what frequency band would be needed.

What do you think about that?

 

[rockhound]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

Hey Arch,I talked to two physicists,a mathematician and and EE last night. We had a good discussion about several of the difficulties that would need to be addressed before constructing a system with much range. I didn't really learn much but all my suspicions were confirmed. Now,all I need to do is put it all together. I will have to crunch some numbers and do a mock setup at close range to establish the resonant frequency. Once that is done,the rest will be a cinch to build the device with the correct frequency ranges and set it up for greater distance. One physicists did know more about the actual application of such a device because of his hobby as a HAM radio operator. His input was far above the others who only could state principles. None had ever engaged in such an endeavor ,and most had ties with or taught at universities.It never ceases to amaze me at the level of knowledge that some achieve over their peers,even with the same training and instruction. The few,who dare to think outside the box,they are the ones I like to talk to.Their openmindedness and calm and calculated demeanor is refreshing and inspirational. I am not against science or the EE's here.I know they have paid their dues and believe what they were taught to be the only logical scientific solution to addressing the subject we are all so fond of. I very much like science and love a scientific challenge. I would like to have a chance to build and test one and its parameters before posting imore information about it. It could take a few days or a week,but when I get it all worked out,I will let my friends on here have the information to build their own. I will try to keep it as simple as possible.From what I had confirmed by them,it is not really all that hard,but some steps need to be adhered to to make it work. They said,not only is it feasible but could be easily done with the right equipment. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[architecad]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

SWR

My message is quite simple but you're kidding yourself; "We don't want you participating among us", so simple. Frank and honestly. If I would have power in this forum to ban you or keep you out from my thread, you would be out long time ago but I can't. I'm being honest with you.

Arch

Arch---

When working on a new project, criticism is one of your most valuable factors. It can prevent a person from making wrong assumptions and going down the wrong path, wasting lots of time and money.

But if a person believes his ideas are workable, and continues on his "bright idea" path, he should establish some landmark proofs for himself along the way, or he can end up out on a limb.

In my opinion, the very first proof one should establish for himself on the MFD idea, is that there is some kind of initial target signal, or a stimulated return signal, which can be electronically detected. This would not necessarily require high power in the transmitter. Even a target five or ten feet away could establish an identifiable signal of some kind. After that, it would just be a matter of increasing the range.

But if one plans on merely transmitting a strong signal, without verifying the best frequency first, and then using dowsing rods to try and sense a return signal, then he would just be right back to dowsing.

Also, there can't be a transmitter blasting at the same time that a receiver is tuned to the same frequency, or even a harmonic or subharmonic, because the transmitter will drown out any smaller signal returning from the target. That is very basic radio electronics knowledge, and just plain common sense, also. So even a very low powered experimental unit would need to handle that problem first, then test for the best frequency to get a useable return signal.

My opinion would be that shopping for a high powered transmitter would be putting the cart in front of the horse, because it has not been established yet exactly what frequency band would be needed.

What do you think about that?

Before to answer, I'm little confuse. You've stated here that you don't believe that a function generator can spread out or broadcast a signal underground. Is it true for you?.

Arch

 

[architecad]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

Hey Arch,I talked to two physicists,a mathematician and and EE last night. We had a good discussion about several of the difficulties that would need to be addressed before constructing a system with much range. I didn't really learn much but all my suspicions were confirmed. Now,all I need to do is put it all together. I will have to crunch some numbers and do a mock setup at close range to establish the resonant frequency. Once that is done,the rest will be a cinch to build the device with the correct frequency ranges and set it up for greater distance. One physicists did know more about the actual application of such a device because of his hobby as a HAM radio operator. His input was far above the others who only could state principles. None had ever engaged in such an endeavor ,and most had ties with or taught at universities.It never ceases to amaze me at the level of knowledge that some achieve over their peers,even with the same training and instruction. The few,who dare to think outside the box,they are the ones I like to talk to.Their openmindedness and calm and calculated demeanor is refreshing and inspirational. I am not against science or the EE's here.I know they have paid their dues and believe what they were taught to be the only logical scientific solution to addressing the subject we are all so fond of. I very much like science and love a scientific challenge. I would like to have a chance to build and test one and its parameters before posting imore information about it. It could take a few days or a week,but when I get it all worked out,I will let my friends on here have the information to build their own. I will try to keep it as simple as possible.From what I had confirmed by them,it is not really all that hard,but some steps need to be adhered to to make it work. They said,not only is it feasible but could be easily done with the right equipment. Good Luck. rockhound

Ok. Also I got more question about Function generator. A "function generator" is not the same than a "Audio Generator", however, both equipment can be used to broadcast a signal into a motherboard for troubleshooting. Function generator can be measured with a Oscilloscope. The Audio generator can be measured with a simple speaker.

To find treasure, (I have to be honest because I never tried an audio generator as MFD), I don't know if both equipment could do the same job.

Arch

 

[rockhound]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

I can only tell you what we discussed. First you need to create resonance in your target. Resonance means that the target is absorbing and reflecting waves because the targets isotope speed is increased to a higher level.Most of the waves will be reflected if you are using the correct frequencies.What will happen is,it will be like pushing a kid on a swing,if done as the swing has reached its apex and going away,each push will add more energy without much input.The same thing happens with resonance,you are hitting a target with waves that vibrate at the frequency of the targets signature until it vibrates(resonates) at the same frequency as you are transmitting. When this is accomplished,it will reach a higher level of energy and will have to release some of that energy to get back to a state of balance.According to the physicists,it could resonate for some time before losing its energy,just like the swing winding down after you quit pushing. So if you can find the targets resonant signaure frequency,after you energize it,you will only need to turn off your transmitter and turn on your reciever and trace it to the target. Sounds simple,but it is a little more involved than that. A signal generator(function generator) would work to transmit the signal,but there is only a few frequencies and only one wave type that will reflect off a metal object.After the target starts resonating,if you continue to hit it with waves from a transmitter,it will set up standing waves(waves coming and waves going overlapping each other).this is the strongest signal and the fartherest distance you can resonate to. They claimed it should be possible to resonate an object as far as a straight line can be held.On the ocean the natural curvature of the earth limits you view to 50 miles. On land,there are too many obstacles in most places to see that far.They also claimed that power was only of secondary importance,that resonance was what was important,claiming low power was enough to reach many miles if set up in resonance.I need to do the math. rockhound

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

Lets see now..Man will never achieve the ability to fly..It is impossible to sent a message over a wire..An aircraft will never be able to reach the speed of sound...All those warnings from Skeptics and some how science just keeps moving forward...Art

 

[architecad]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

I can only tell you what we discussed. First you need to create resonance in your target. Resonance means that the target is absorbing and reflecting waves because the targets isotope speed is increased to a higher level.Most of the waves will be reflected if you are using the correct frequencies.What will happen is,it will be like pushing a kid on a swing,if done as the swing has reached its apex and going away,each push will add more energy without much input.The same thing happens with resonance,you are hitting a target with waves that vibrate at the frequency of the targets signature until it vibrates(resonates) at the same frequency as you are transmitting. When this is accomplished,it will reach a higher level of energy and will have to release some of that energy to get back to a state of balance.According to the physicists,it could resonate for some time before losing its energy,just like the swing winding down after you quit pushing. So if you can find the targets resonant signaure frequency,after you energize it,you will only need to turn off your transmitter and turn on your reciever and trace it to the target. Sounds simple,but it is a little more involved than that. A signal generator(function generator) would work to transmit the signal,but there is only a few frequencies and only one wave type that will reflect off a metal object.After the target starts resonating,if you continue to hit it with waves from a transmitter,it will set up standing waves(waves coming and waves going overlapping each other).this is the strongest signal and the fartherest distance you can resonate to. They claimed it should be possible to resonate an object as far as a straight line can be held.On the ocean the natural curvature of the earth limits you view to 50 miles. On land,there are too many obstacles in most places to see that far.They also claimed that power was only of secondary importance,that resonance was what was important,claiming low power was enough to reach many miles if set up in resonance.I need to do the math. rockhound

Rockhound said
The same thing happens with resonance,you are hitting a target with waves that vibrate at the frequency of the targets signature until it vibrates(resonates) at the same frequency as you are transmitting. When this is accomplished,it will reach a higher level of energy and will have to release some of that energy to get back to a state of balance.

This is exactly what I explained in this forum in my own words and experiences.

Thanks Rock

Arch

 

[EE THr]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

Before to answer, I'm little confuse. You've stated here that you don't believe that a function generator can spread out or broadcast a signal underground. Is it true for you?.

Arch

Let me explain something about function generators, and I'm sure rocky's science friends will agree. Function generator chips, as well as all other semicontuctor chips, such as are found in calculators, computers, digital clocks, and so forth, are specifically designed not to radiate, or "transmit." Some stray radiated pulses can be picked up within an inch or so from the board, but that's it.

Think of it this way: If every digital circuit transmitted, your computer would interfere with your calculator, and your calculator would interfere with your digital clock, and your digital clock would interfere with your computer. It would be a big mess. Everybody's car computers would interfere with those nearby, and they would all behave erratically.

So, no, a function generator, by itself, does not "transmit."

And no, it would not broadcast a signal underground.

That's just the nature of chips, it's how they are designed.

 

[rockhound]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

I am real busy still remodeling,just took a break. What EE said is true,you need to have a pickup coil close to or tied into the generator to amplify the signal.There is a way to make it scalar,but I will not go into that right now.You don't need to spend a lot of money to buy a function generator,you can build one fairly cheap.The only thing you will not have is a digital display.There are many ways to amplify the signal from the generator.Pickup coil is one way.Right now everything is so disarranged,I couldn't find the parts to build one is I wanted to. It may take a little onger to get it going than I thought.I need to calculate the LRC circuit and get the parts if I don't have them,this is the most important part of the system. I have to get this remodeling done now before I can start working on the MFD.I have had to drop two other projects when I started this remodeling.I thought when I retired I would have plenty of time,but it sure is not working out like I planned.Gotta go,back to work. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[EE THr]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

rocky---

Your use of the term "amplify" is incorrect and misleading. A coil cannot amplify anything. In the use to which you first referred, you would merely be picking up more of whatever signal might be there. In the second use, it would not amplify either, but if you are talking about passing the signal to another circuit, it would be simpler to just connect it to that circuit.

And your reference to "scalar" is meaningless.

 

[rockhound]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

A LRC circuit is what I meant is the way to amplify a signal. I almost have it all calculated and figured out,just have a few components left to calculate their value. When I do get it all designed,I will make a schematic to build with. The transmit is the easy part.The recieving is the part that will take time to tune to resonance.I am glad,instead of insulting,that you are actually adding a few comments about this project. I am breaking new ground in some of this circuit. Scalar is one option I have looked at.I know how to make a scalar system,but haven't had any experience trying to tune such a system. I will not attempt a scalar system at this time.I have already determined the values of most of my components,but I will still need to experiment with it once it is constructed.I have one advantage that some don't have.I am an inventor,and as such,I can experiment and work off those to the most benefit.The biggest problem I face is proper tuning to get resonance in my system, and decide which frequency I am going to transmit at.Good Luck. rockhound

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

~EE~

Your use of the term "amplify" is incorrect and misleading. A coil cannot amplify anything. In the use to which you first referred, you would merely be picking up more of whatever signal might be there. In the second use, it would not amplify either, but if you are talking about passing the signal to another circuit, it would be simpler to just connect it to that circuit.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system3.htm
The coil is a simple device -- essentially a high-voltage transformer made up of two coils of wire. One coil of wire is called the primary coil. Wrapped around it is the secondary coil. The secondary coil normally has hundreds of times more turns of wire than the primary coil.
Current flows from the battery through the primary winding of the coil.
The primary coil's current can be suddenly disrupted by the breaker points, or by a solid-state device in an electronic ignition.
If you think the coil looks like an electromagnet, you're right -- but it is also an inductor. The key to the coil's operation is what happens when the circuit is suddenly broken by the points. The magnetic field of the primary coil collapses rapidly. The secondary coil is engulfed by a powerful and changing magnetic field. This field induces a current in the coils -- a very high-voltage current (up to 100,000 volts) because of the number of coils in the secondary winding. The secondary coil feeds this voltage to the distributor via a very well insulated, high-voltage wire.

 

[Saturna]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

Lets see now..Man will never achieve the ability to fly..It is impossible to sent a message over a wire..An aircraft will never be able to reach the speed of sound...All those warnings from Skeptics and some how science just keeps moving forward...Art

What's the BIG difference here Arthur ?

You don't know ?


It's the fact that all those things you mentioned were shown to work by the people who DID things.

Until you guys do the same thing, your examples have no relevance.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

~Saturna~

What's the BIG difference here Arthur ?
You don't know ?
It's the fact that all those things you mentioned were shown to work by the people who DID things.
Until you guys do the same thing, your examples have no relevance.

Gee..You missed the whole point of the post...All the expert Skeptics were wrong..Art

 

[EE THr]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

a very high-voltage current (up to 100,000 volts) because of the number of coils in the secondary winding.

Art---

A transformer can increase or decrease an alternating or interupted Voltage, that's true. But if it increases the Voltage, it decreases the Current, and if it decreases the Voltage, it increases the Current.

Since Power, measured in Watts, is equal to Voltage multiplied by Current, you can see that there is no Power gain. Amplifiers have gain. Neither a coil nor a transformer is an "amplifier."

The circuit you quoted describes an engine ignition coil setup, to fire spark plugs. The voltage is very high, but the current is very low.

The opposite would be an arc welder, which will work on two car batteries, 24 Volts DC, very high current, and melt steel. If you did that with spark plugs, their electrodes would melt off in less than a second.

Does that make sense to you now?

 

[EE THr]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

A LRC circuit is what I meant is the way to amplify a signal. I almost have it all calculated and figured out,just have a few components left to calculate their value. When I do get it all designed,I will make a schematic to build with. The transmit is the easy part.The recieving is the part that will take time to tune to resonance.I am glad,instead of insulting,that you are actually adding a few comments about this project. I am breaking new ground in some of this circuit. Scalar is one option I have looked at.I know how to make a scalar system,but haven't had any experience trying to tune such a system. I will not attempt a scalar system at this time.I have already determined the values of most of my components,but I will still need to experiment with it once it is constructed.I have one advantage that some don't have.I am an inventor,and as such,I can experiment and work off those to the most benefit.The biggest problem I face is proper tuning to get resonance in my system, and decide which frequency I am going to transmit at.Good Luck. rockhound

An LC, or inductance/capacitance, circuit is a filter. It will resonate at a certain frequency, which is fed to it, according to the values of inductance and capacitance. If you include amplification and feedback, it will become an oscillator circuit.

There are also LR and CR filter circuits. "R" standing for Resistance. Most LC circuits are designed with as little Resistance as possible, but there are certain exceptions.

An LC circuit, by itself, is not an amplifier.

 

[architecad]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

Before to answer, I'm little confuse. You've stated here that you don't believe that a function generator can spread out or broadcast a signal underground. Is it true for you?.

Arch

Let me explain something about function generators, and I'm sure rocky's science friends will agree. Function generator chips, as well as all other semicontuctor chips, such as are found in calculators, computers, digital clocks, and so forth, are specifically designed not to radiate, or "transmit." Some stray radiated pulses can be picked up within an inch or so from the board, but that's it.

Think of it this way: If every digital circuit transmitted, your computer would interfere with your calculator, and your calculator would interfere with your digital clock, and your digital clock would interfere with your computer. It would be a big mess. Everybody's car computers would interfere with those nearby, and they would all behave erratically.

So, no, a function generator, by itself, does not "transmit."

And no, it would not broadcast a signal underground.

That's just the nature of chips, it's how they are designed.

So, if this theory that you explain here about Function Generator is true, do you think it need a boosters or amplifier to broadcast the signal?

Arch

 

[EE THr]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

So, if this theory that you explain here about Function Generator is true, do you think it need a boosters or amplifier to broadcast the signal?

Arch

It's not just a "theory," because you can check the manufacturers' specifications sheets of the various function generators to see what they are capable of, and you can check various schematics in which they are used, and finally, you can test various equipment which uses them to see if they actually "broadcast."

In order to use a function generator to broadcast, it would require proper coupling to an amplifier capable of operating in whatever frequency band you are using, and proper coupling from the amplifier to an appropriately tuned antenna. Furthermore, if you want to transmit in a particular direction, the antenna would need to be of the directional type.

 

[architecad]

Re: Function generators + boosters (Only for Users) II

So, if this theory that you explain here about Function Generator is true, do you think it need a boosters or amplifier to broadcast the signal?

Arch

It's not just a "theory," because you can check the manufacturers' specifications sheets of the various function generators to see what they are capable of, and you can check various schematics in which they are used, and finally, you can test various equipment which uses them to see if they actually "broadcast."

In order to use a function generator to broadcast, it would require proper coupling to an amplifier capable of operating in whatever frequency band you are using, and proper coupling from the amplifier to an appropriately tuned antenna. Furthermore, if you want to transmit in a particular direction, the antenna would need to be of the directional type.

you can check the manufacturers' specifications sheets of the various function generators= Yeap

you can check various schematics= I've worked with schematics for troubleshooting amplifiers, receivers, TV, etc and a function Generator travel all way down.

Amplifier No problem with extra power.

The true is the way a function generator works for troubleshooting is not the same way to find treasure when you plugging on ground neg. and pos. to spread out the signal. Two different scenario. Beside, those Function Generator's manufacturers don't know that many people use Function generators to treasure hunting, therefore, don't expect to find relevant information about this subject in the manufacturer's specifications.

Arch