Glass Arrowheads? Please see photo

[Airborne80]

Ok..... you may recall that I had brought up the question about Indians having used glass as arrowheads. Most thought no and a few had information that Indians had in fact used glass. Now, the site that I hunt at is on the banks of a large river and was used very heavily as a summer fishing and hunting camp by early Americans for thousands of years. It also saw revolutionary and Civil War activity. I began my interest in hunting arrowheads last December, when I stumbled upon my best point to date. Since then, I hunt the site almost daily and (because of the tidal activity) new items are uncovered twice a day. I have noticed hundreds of pieces of glass that are shaped like points, and never picked them up.... believing that they were just litter. The more I hunted and realized that there is no other trash at the location. The question that I have is.... could it be pure coincidence that the only litter in an Indian site just happens to be pieces of glass shaped like arrowheads? Take a look at just some of the items that I have recently recovered.

 

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[creekhunter]

I have a case of "glass scrapers" that I purchased in a collection log ago, and the case says," see page so and so of the Ohio Archeological Digest for more info on glass scrapers" the edges are worked very much like several I see in your pic, I think you are onto something there!

 

[Airborne80]

I have a case of "glass scrapers" that I purchased in a collection log ago, and the case says," see page so and so of the Ohio Archaeological Digest for more info on glass scrapers" the edges are worked very much like several I see in your pic, I think you are onto something there!

Wow! I hope you are right and if so.... I could literally go and pick up a hindered more! Some are big and look like scrapers. I just wonder where the glass came from. Maybe it was traded.... I have found three trade pipes at the same location. Or, maybe it was taken during raids against settlements. I will keep trying to find information on that, but until someone convinces me that it's just trash, I will pick them up from now on. Thanks for the post

 

[creekhunter]

I think they would make a fine display!

 

[Airborne80]

I think they would make a fine display!

Oh yea! Once I am sure they are what I hope they are, you bet, I will get them into a frame.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I don't know about glass, but they did use quartz crystal.

 

[Airborne80]

I don't know about glass, but they did use quartz crystal.

Thats true. I have found a few of them at the same site. Thanks for the post

 

[Airborne80]

I'm sure some Indian, somewhere, probably picked up a piece of glass and used it for a tool, but I think what you have is just broken glass.

reasonable thought to be sure. But I am curious... do you find it strange that so many are similar in terms of shape and even direction and location of deviations? If these were found anywhere else on earth, we would not even be having the discussion, but really.... in a trash free area with tons of Indian encampment history..... how could there be so many triangular glass pieces being unearthed by the tide? Don't get me wrong, you are probably correct but is it just me, or is this strange?

 

[Atlantis0077]

Afternoon,

Not to say that what you have wasn't used by the Indians, but let me ask you this. How long have we had glass such as the type in your photos? I would wager that it cant be more than a few hundred years old.

I am sure that there was some overlap of cultures where the Indians might have been able to make use of glass for arrow points, but by this time the Indians were already using metal arrow points and trading for other items as well.

Also even with historic arrow points that are just a few hundred years old...made of stone, the chipping is still evident. Your glass pieces have little to no flaking...at least to the extent one sees in the average stone point of any age. Also hafting could be a problem, and I see no alteration on the pieces of glass that would indicate they were ever used as an arrow point. Just some things to consider.

Location would play a big part in the story. I know here in Louisiana, its unlikely you would find a historic glass Indian arrowhead. Crystal or quartz is a whole different matter...you can find Clovis points right through late Caddo points made from that material....remarkable considering how dense it is.

Some of the other folks can probably give you more information on glass being used. You just dont see it much in my neck of the woods, but anything is possible.

Happy Hunting,

Atlantis

 

[pickaway]

That green piece upper left is definatley a shard off Little Kings bottle .Trust me ...I dug a complete six pack of little kings about a month ago, still full!! with flint all around themFunny how the soil settles...

 

[*Molly*]

I agree with Atlantis, you say this area was used for fishing & camping, by Americans, probably just debrie, I can go down by the river, where ppl camp & fish & find simular, this reminds me of your other post I read that Archaic Indians did used glass but it was dark green & black, otherwise white glass is modern, well few hundred years old. Also I've said this before ( not sure why I'm repeating myself)
but there is no evidence of flaking, hafting, grinding, they maybe triangular but not actually projectile point in shape. Keep searching, sure you'll come up with something worthwhile.
Just my 10 cents.

Molly.

 

[Airborne80]

Afternoon,

Not to say that what you have wasn't used by the Indians, but let me ask you this. How long have we had glass such as the type in your photos? I would wager that it cant be more than a few hundred years old.

I am sure that there was some overlap of cultures where the Indians might have been able to make use of glass for arrow points, but by this time the Indians were already using metal arrow points and trading for other items as well.

Also even with historic arrow points that are just a few hundred years old...made of stone, the chipping is still evident. Your glass pieces have little to no flaking...at least to the extent one sees in the average stone point of any age. Also hafting could be a problem, and I see no alteration on the pieces of glass that would indicate they were ever used as an arrow point. Just some things to consider.

Location would play a big part in the story. I know here in Louisiana, its unlikely you would find a historic glass Indian arrowhead. Crystal or quartz is a whole different matter...you can find Clovis points right through late Caddo points made from that material....remarkable considering how dense it is.

Some of the other folks can probably give you more information on glass being used. You just dont see it much in my neck of the woods, but anything is possible.

Happy Hunting,

Atlantis

Believe me... I fully subscribe to the logic of your post. That's why I never picked any of them up for so long. It was only when I began to notice that so many of them had close to identical details regarding the curved protrusion on one side of the bottom and other similarities. Also, I never see any other random shapes. Just yesterday after work, I hit the site at low tide and found a few small quartz bird points and two pieces of trade pipes... and of course, more than a few pieces of triangular glass, right along with them. I will refrain from collecting them, but it is an interesting mystery and a fun one to consider. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Stay safe!

 

[Airborne80]

I agree with Atlantis, you say this area was used for fishing & camping, by Americans, probably just debrie, I can go down by the river, where ppl camp & fish & find similar, this reminds me of your other post I read that Archaic Indians did used glass but it was dark green & black, otherwise white glass is modern, well few hundred years old. Also I've said this before ( not sure why I'm repeating myself)
but there is no evidence of flaking, hafting, grinding, they maybe triangular but not actually projectile point in shape. Keep searching, sure you'll come up with something worthwhile.
Just my 10 cents.

Molly.

I hear ya Molly I will continue my search for more "indisputable" items. As they say, the worst day fishing (or arrowhead hunting) is better than the best day at work. I do love getting out there. Thanks for the post and stay safe!

 

[Neanderthal]

It's actually commonplace to find artifacts made out of glass in some places. Late 1800's - early 1900's (res period artifacts) sites will often yield them. Scrapers and crude knives seem to be the most common found, but I have also seen some very nice complete, hafted arrowheads.

Doing the arch. site survey at the Saline site, we recovered several scrapers made of glass (very well worked) from the late 1800's. All of the glass pieces that I have seen, display indisputable evidence of being fashioned into a workable tool (prominent flake scars, etc). One of my favorite artifacts is a Gunther Triangular point made of green glass. It's a beach point style, flaked superbly and has great erosion. I'll see if I can't take a pic of it sometime. Your pieces look to be broken glass shards, I can't see any sign of modification into a tool on them.

 

[riverhunter]

Airborne,

I have to admit, I laugh (not in a mean way) every time I see one of your posts! 9 times out of 10, your enthusiasm outshines the evidense you present, but your arguements are familiar- and understandable. A couple years ago I was new- VERY new to all this artifact hunting. I spent a LOT of time on line trying to figure out what I was finding- and who might have made them and why- and when. I bought a couple books- Overstreet and another more regional id book. They actually made it more confusing for me. But I persevered, and am now- 3-4 years later JUST BEGINNING to get the hang of id-ing. And i'm still not good at it. But I can spot a worked piece- and I can, often, spot a stone tool. I started going out w/ a hunting partner much like yourself. Eager and enthusiastic. It took a long time to convince him that much of what he was calling me over to see- was imposter goods. That's what we call the stuff that reminds us of what we're looking for, but it's not. It's 'fake' . Foux points. Triangles. And yes, sometimes it's really hard to see what you're seeing. But unless you can take that piece and hold it to view on edge- unless you can see a taper creating an edge- and little divets (knapping marks), you're barking up the wrong tree- and using up a lot of hunt time simply looking for triangles. SO much of what you're finding reminds me of all those imposter goods we've found along the way. But you must must must look at the edge. I live in your area (generally), and the materials you're fidning are similar to what I'm finding, and we have similar 'hunting grounds', so I can clearly see what you're going through. And I have compassion for you.
There's a site on line that I check out now and then- just to see what's being shown. westernartifacts.com isn't a bad site- but more importantly, it had a bit on your glass question- which I read long ago when this same topic came up (probably two years ago now- I've been lurking for a while). There's a kind of tutoral area on this site where they explain (briefly) the use of glass in native culture. They explain that it's LATE(historically) and very temporary medium (used more out of desperation than choice, the natives at this point in time were being hustled west). They show an example of a red point- made of railroad signal glass- beautiful! They go on to explain that natives also used other THICK glass (and you'd understand the need for this if you ever tried to knap something- anything. You need a fair amount of material to start. A lot gets worked away). So they typically used glass from the bottoms of bottles- and bottle glass was not white or clear back then. It would turn purple over time if it were old. Most was green, aqua, brown, etc. Railroad signal glass would fit that description.
I have never found anything that even came close to a glass point. And I should ad that the river system is a LIVING system. In other words, a good piece of property is a good piece of property no matter what age or time period. So you WILL find 'trash' of various ages- including glass and metal- I get a ton of glass (which pisses me off 'cause it catches my eye as knapped pieces do!)- and I get a lot of iron and aluminium.
Your good attitude and enthusiasm will sustain you as you forge ahead. And you'll keep running up against the 'imposters'- the bits that trick the eye. But if you never give up, and never lose heart, you'll be fine- and will find a LOT of good things. Remember- regardless of how much you know, a true artifact will never need to be explained. You'll never need to convince yourself that it's an artifact. You'll just know it. So try, instead, when you post- to say 'look at this!' rather than 'what do you think?'. If you have to think about it- it's probably not what you're hoping it is. Granted, there are a lot of things to ponder out there- and should be questioned- should be posted as big Q's. But hopes and wishes won't make a thing so. Won't make an artifact out of a chip. BTW, have you ever seen a square piece of broken glass? I'm not sure I have. But I think they tent to break in triangular pieces. I could be wrong. Try testing it out?!
HH pal,
Riverhunter

 

[Airborne80]

Airborne,

I have to admit, I laugh (not in a mean way) every time I see one of your posts! 9 times out of 10, your enthusiasm outshines the evidence you present, but your arguements are familiar- and understandable. A couple years ago I was new- VERY new to all this artifact hunting. I spent a LOT of time on line trying to figure out what I was finding- and who might have made them and why- and when. I bought a couple books- Overstreet and another more regional id book. They actually made it more confusing for me. But I persevered, and am now- 3-4 years later JUST BEGINNING to get the hang of id-ing. And i'm still not good at it. But I can spot a worked piece- and I can, often, spot a stone tool. I started going out w/ a hunting partner much like yourself. Eager and enthusiastic. It took a long time to convince him that much of what he was calling me over to see- was imposter goods. That's what we call the stuff that reminds us of what we're looking for, but it's not. It's 'fake' . Foux points. Triangles. And yes, sometimes it's really hard to see what you're seeing. But unless you can take that piece and hold it to view on edge- unless you can see a taper creating an edge- and little divets (knapping marks), you're barking up the wrong tree- and using up a lot of hunt time simply looking for triangles. SO much of what you're finding reminds me of all those imposter goods we've found along the way. But you must must must look at the edge. I live in your area (generally), and the materials you're fidning are similar to what I'm finding, and we have similar 'hunting grounds', so I can clearly see what you're going through. And I have compassion for you.
There's a site on line that I check out now and then- just to see what's being shown. westernartifacts.com isn't a bad site- but more importantly, it had a bit on your glass question- which I read long ago when this same topic came up (probably two years ago now- I've been lurking for a while). There's a kind of tutoral area on this site where they explain (briefly) the use of glass in native culture. They explain that it's LATE(historically) and very temporary medium (used more out of desperation than choice, the natives at this point in time were being hustled west). They show an example of a red point- made of railroad signal glass- beautiful! They go on to explain that natives also used other THICK glass (and you'd understand the need for this if you ever tried to knap something- anything. You need a fair amount of material to start. A lot gets worked away). So they typically used glass from the bottoms of bottles- and bottle glass was not white or clear back then. It would turn purple over time if it were old. Most was green, aqua, brown, etc. Railroad signal glass would fit that description.
I have never found anything that even came close to a glass point. And I should ad that the river system is a LIVING system. In other words, a good piece of property is a good piece of property no matter what age or time period. So you WILL find 'trash' of various ages- including glass and metal- I get a ton of glass (which pisses me off 'cause it catches my eye as knapped pieces do!)- and I get a lot of iron and aluminium.
Your good attitude and enthusiasm will sustain you as you forge ahead. And you'll keep running up against the 'imposters'- the bits that trick the eye. But if you never give up, and never lose heart, you'll be fine- and will find a LOT of good things. Remember- regardless of how much you know, a true artifact will never need to be explained. You'll never need to convince yourself that it's an artifact. You'll just know it. So try, instead, when you post- to say 'look at this!' rather than 'what do you think?'. If you have to think about it- it's probably not what you're hoping it is. Granted, there are a lot of things to ponder out there- and should be questioned- should be posted as big Q's. But hopes and wishes won't make a thing so. Won't make an artifact out of a chip. BTW, have you ever seen a square piece of broken glass? I'm not sure I have. But I think they tent to break in triangular pieces. I could be wrong. Try testing it out?!
HH pal,
Riverhunter

Wow! First of all, I have to thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response to my post. Then, I have to compose my suicide note. It's becoming clear that I have a box of broken glass. How will I ever be able to face my family again? But seriousally, that is nice of you to give me your experience and valuable thoughts on the subjetc and I really do appreciate it. If you have seen all of my posts, you know that I do have about 13 actual, beautiful, instantly identifiable points that I just love. they are framed and I cherish them. I have a large container of broken points and a larger container of maybes. The "Maybe" container is where I should learn the lessons that you speak of. I just can't bring myself to get rid of them yet, but you would be surprised at how I am changing as I hunt. lately, I have been leaving behind the maybes and it is starting to feel pretty good I just get so excited thinking that someone may have used or even touched something so long ago. Just realizing that an arrowhead was the state of the art weapon at one time, and now... in the age of hit tech weapons and Apache helicopters and such, a person can still find them. man...... its pretty cool!

regarding the stone tools.... you know, i get frustrated sometimes because a scanned photo just does NOT show the features that you speak of. My recent post about the stone possible scraper is a great example. When I saw it, I just KNEW that it was a worked piece of stone. I picked it up and let me tell you.... it feels sooooo good in the hand. It is 100% tapered to a fine and sharp edge and there is clear flaking on the edge. It just will not show up in the scanned photo! Grrrrrrr! I really wish that I could share it better with the group here, because I know that most, even Cannonman, would recognize it for what it is if he could hold it.

Anyway.... thanks again and your points are well taken. Stay safe and rest assured, I will refrain form posting glass shards again.

 

[arm66]

Ha. That is so funny. THe guy I hunt with always says he can identify most of my finds at first glance - he says they are from the "Hopeful" era. (obviously a play on Hopewell). He also calls them imagindianary points. I bring them to the jeep and lay them out to show him and we systematically rule out 99% of what was stuffed in my pockets. I usually pick up so much stuff I started wearing a cloth nail apron to carry it. I am certain half of it is worked but when we get together and the excitement has died down I realize I have a better imagination than Dr. Suess ever had! Some of it seems ridiculous to have picked up in the first place. I don't care, I would rather carry a ton of rocks back to the truck than to throw out one broken scraper.

 

[riverhunter]

Damn- you sure are right about taking piles of rocks home! I actually bring plastic shopping bags (first to pick up trash- which I can't abide) to carry the boulders. My cargo pants start to fall off- then I empty into the bag(s). I'm terrible about that. BUT, once home, I do keep things in the general area. I read somewhere- and here too that racks are the best 'mulch'- not for nutritional value (urp..) but to hold moisture in. So...one day, when I sell the house, I'm going to have to leave a note for the future owners concerning all the flakes, hardstones and general debitage all over the place. No, this was not an major Native American stronghold. Just a whole lot of maybes. Some of which I recognize much later as actually BEING something-- and I take them back inside to the 'brokes' crock.

BTW, air-
I did see your other posts, and I like what you've found! You obviously have a good site- you may want to expand your horizons some and find other possible spots on your river. I was hooked on one 'sweet spot' only to discover there were more. Tides change everything- one thing I LOVE about being on the water. So every day hold new oportunity. Good luck-- and get that FILM camera (if you have one) working to your advantage here. We REALLY want to SEE what you've got!
Riverhunter

 

[Airborne80]

Ha. That is so funny. THe guy I hunt with always says he can identify most of my finds at first glance - he says they are from the "Hopeful" era. (obviously a play on Hopewell). He also calls them imagindianary points. I bring them to the jeep and lay them out to show him and we systematically rule out 99% of what was stuffed in my pockets. I usually pick up so much stuff I started wearing a cloth nail apron to carry it. I am certain half of it is worked but when we get together and the excitement has died down I realize I have a better imagination than Dr. Suess ever had! Some of it seems ridiculous to have picked up in the first place. I don't care, I would rather carry a ton of rocks back to the truck than to throw out one broken scraper.

exactly!!! I fully agree with thought that it's better to pickup a thousand pieces of junk, than to bypass one authentic item! I guess we are all the same in many respects because more often than not, I find myself walking along the river with my pants falling off due to the weight of so many imposers and rocks haha. Like you, when I look at them again, I think.... "what was I thinking?" I am slowly learning to break the habit of bringing home tons of rock. BUT... I do keep all of the beautiful white quartz flakes, They look cool and I can't bring myself to bypass them.

 

[Airborne80]

Damn- you sure are right about taking piles of rocks home! I actually bring plastic shopping bags (first to pick up trash- which I can't abide) to carry the boulders. My cargo pants start to fall off- then I empty into the bag(s). I'm terrible about that. BUT, once home, I do keep things in the general area. I read somewhere- and here too that racks are the best 'mulch'- not for nutritional value (urp..) but to hold moisture in. So...one day, when I sell the house, I'm going to have to leave a note for the future owners concerning all the flakes, hardstones and general debitage all over the place. No, this was not an major Native American stronghold. Just a whole lot of maybes. Some of which I recognize much later as actually BEING something-- and I take them back inside to the 'brokes' crock.

BTW, air-
I did see your other posts, and I like what you've found! You obviously have a good site- you may want to expand your horizons some and find other possible spots on your river. I was hooked on one 'sweet spot' only to discover there were more. Tides change everything- one thing I LOVE about being on the water. So every day hold new oportunity. Good luck-- and get that FILM camera (if you have one) working to your advantage here. We REALLY want to SEE what you've got!
Riverhunter

Thanks brother.... I will get the camera working and I like your thought on expanding my search area. I bought a canoe and am looking forward to trying the other side of the river. Nobody ever goes there, so maybe its a gold mine. There is also a beautiful and large creek that feeds into the river i search. I want to go upstram and see what it has to offer. Wish me luck.

I was saying above that I keep all of the white quartz flakes. I bought a couple of large and very cool looking glass vases and put the flakes in them. It actually is a beautiful and unusual display.... IMO. I am almost to the point where I will need to buy a third one to hold my flakes. Maybe someday, I will break that habit as well hahah. Stay safe and Happy 4th!