Going to turkey to Metal Detect? Maybe not

[dirtfisher23]

Living In Turkey Things Expats Need to Know

The laws and rules expats and travellers need to know to fit in when living in Turkey

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Living In Turkey Things Expats Need to KnowWith strains between the Muslim world and the West still quite high, many would be expatriates are wondering what it might be like living in Turkey at the moment. This country, on the brink of European Union ascension, has long been a favourite holidaymaking destination for visitors from around the world. It even holds a strong draw for expats with nearly 40,000 Brits calling this country home, along with thousands from other countries around the world. Despite its draws, living in Turkey does come with some cautions.

In this article we’ll explore some of the customs and rules expats need to know about before deciding to live in Turkey. Overall this country is very welcoming and tolerant of foreigners, but there are some differences in philosophy and ways of life that Western Europeans are likely to notice.

Some of the major things that expats should be aware of before moving to Turkey include:

Terrorism threats. Whilst it’s true that most countries around the world have high terror warnings at present, Turkey has been attacked more than once. Some attacks have occurred in high security areas, but others have focused on tourist areas and the places that expats frequent. Caution should be used when travelling or living in Turkey.

Crime. The British government tells its citizens that crime in Turkey is generally fairly low. Petty robberies are generally the worst people face whilst living in Turkey. Still, sexual assaults in tourist areas have been reported and the British government does ominously point out the murder of three people at a Christian publishing house in Malatya in early 2007.

Politics. This is a gold-star area for living in Turkey. The government here is considered very stable and quite in control. Still, the democracy does see its share of demonstrations. Expats and travellers are advised to steer clear of getting involved.

Driving. Road conditions in Turkey are considered quite poor and serious accidents are not at all uncommon. British drivers will need an International Driving License to operate a vehicle. Drink driving in Turkey is highly frowned upon and can result in very steep fines.

Drug use/trafficking. Whilst upstanding citizens need not worry about this one, pleasure seekers should heed the warnings. Turkish officials do not take illegal drug use lightly. It can result in serious fines and prison sentences of up to 24 years. Get caught and British authorities are not likely to be able to help much at all.

Photo ID. It is against Turkish law not to have photo ID on one’s person whilst out in public. The British government recommends its citizens carry a photocopy of their passports at all time.

Metal detectors. The Turkish are very protective of their antiquities. Exporting them can result in a serious prison sentence. Even using a metal detector is considered a crime.

Dress. To respect the culture, it is suggested that expats and holidaymakers alike dress conservatively. This is especially so if visiting a mosque or other religious destination.

Respecting the country. It is a serious crime to insult the Turkish nation, its flag and its currency. Even tearing up money can be seen as a serious affront.

Millions of holidaymakers a year visit Turkey without any incidents. Thousands of expats too live within the country without concerns. Before picking up sticks to move to Turkey, it does pay to carefully study the country, its laws and culture. This ancient land is the ideal home for some expats, but others simply are not comfortable here.

 

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[damiani1]

Damn eh :/ kinda sucks. Im going to Italy and their law's state that any object over 50 years old must be reported.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

dirt-fisher, your title suggests you're going to have a law to cite about metal detecting in Turkey. Yet reading your whole post, I see nothing of the sort (no laws that say "no metal detectors"). And if you're morphing cultural heritage things, sure. But let me ask you then: What's to stop someone from detecting for new coins (as is usually the case for jewelry hunters on tourist beaches)?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I wonder what would happen if I were a foreign traveller from Europe, who asked a USA consolate: "Can I take sensitive cultural heritage artifacts home that I find in USA historic sites, for my own collection please?" I bet they'd tell you "no".

I mean, wasn't that what mel fisher's legal hassles were about? (heaven forbid you might find something valuable). Now I know that there's a VAST difference between a barber or seated dime, and the gold bars that Mel Fisher found. But that "difference" is only in people's perceptions (ie.: "common sense"). But I bet that if you asked enough questions, SO TOO are individual coins going to be held to the same laws (lest it get into perpetual p*ssing match, so much easier just to say "all antiquities").

 

[dirtfisher23]

Bottom line...DON'T PUSH the envelop. If you want to bring your detector,
great. The first Policeman you see ask them what their policy is. Or better yet stop
by one of their out posts. YOU DON'T want to end up in one of their jails for
even a few days. Besides, there are too many OTHER places in the free world
to detect. Maybe not as interesting but thats just a matter of perspective.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bottom line...DON'T PUSH the envelop. If you want to bring your detector,
great. The first Policeman you see ask them what their policy is. Or better yet stop
by one of their out posts. YOU DON'T want to end up in one of their jails for
even a few days. Besides, there are too many OTHER places in the free world
to detect. Maybe not as interesting but thats just a matter of perspective.

And what do you do if the policeman shrugged his shoulders and says "sure, why not?"

Or how about this dirtfisher: rather than think someone needs to "ask a policeman" or "ask a travel consulate", etc... can't someone just look up the laws for himself? And if he sees no law saying "no metal detectors", then why can't that be his answer? And if he saw a law(s) talking about antiquities and cultural heritage, FINE THEN, only go looking for new stuff. Why is the solution to go asking someone "can I?" rather than looking things up for oneself?

This same "go ask someone" philosophy is often the knee-jerk reaction here in the USA too. And the result of such is you get conflicting answers based on their mood, or the old "no one cared till you asked" routine.

And believe me, the routine occurs not only on small town basis', but can happen on national scales too. Such is the reason people have come away from asking about Mexico, to believe it's "strictly forbidden". So they leave the detectors at home. Imagine their surprise when they arrive at their tourist destination, only to see other plying the beach w/o a care in the world. So how did they get their information that it was "illegal"? They asked. And sure, if you ask the right persons, with the right connotations, they'll morph all sorts of wonderful things to apply to your question: Cultural heritage, shipwreck salvor laws, exporting gold bars out of the country, raiding the pyramaids, lost & found laws, etc.... You can ALWAYS find yourself a no, no matter where you ask, if you keep asking various people, using the right key-buzz-words.

 

[dirtfisher23]

See your point, but having spent two months in Turkey there is no way I would take that gamble. GOOD luck to whoever takes their detector there. Your going to need a lot of it. Don't forget to bring God along as well.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

 

[liftloop]

don't do it

 

[New Orleans Relic]

And what do you do if the policeman shrugged his shoulders and says "sure, why not?"

Or how about this dirtfisher: rather than think someone needs to "ask a policeman" or "ask a travel consulate", etc... can't someone just look up the laws for himself? And if he sees no law saying "no metal detectors", then why can't that be his answer? And if he saw a law(s) talking about antiquities and cultural heritage, FINE THEN, only go looking for new stuff. Why is the solution to go asking someone "can I?" rather than looking things up for oneself?

This same "go ask someone" philosophy is often the knee-jerk reaction here in the USA too. And the result of such is you get conflicting answers based on their mood, or the old "no one cared till you asked" routine.

And believe me, the routine occurs not only on small town basis', but can happen on national scales too. Such is the reason people have come away from asking about Mexico, to believe it's "strictly forbidden". So they leave the detectors at home. Imagine their surprise when they arrive at their tourist destination, only to see other plying the beach w/o a care in the world. So how did they get their information that it was "illegal"? They asked. And sure, if you ask the right persons, with the right connotations, they'll morph all sorts of wonderful things to apply to your question: Cultural heritage, shipwreck salvor laws, exporting gold bars out of the country, raiding the pyramaids, lost & found laws, etc.... You can ALWAYS find yourself a no, no matter where you ask, if you keep asking various people, using the right key-buzz-words.

Once again, well put Tom.
Made me want to start packing. Lol
We really need a sticky, on where and where not, our hobby is accepted. ie. states, counties, as well as abroad.
I love to and do travel, but Turkey's hasn't made my bucket list!
Opinions fluctuate in our forum.
And some seem alcohol related! Lol
Ray

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Once again, well put Tom.
Made me want to start packing. Lol
We really need a sticky, on where and where not, our hobby is accepted. ie. states, counties, as well as abroad.
I love to and do travel, but Turkey's hasn't made my bucket list!
Opinions fluctuate in our forum.
And some seem alcohol related! Lol
Ray

Yeah that would be nice to have such a sticky, right? A list of where you can and can't, right? Makes perfect sense, eh? But alas, herein lies the problem: Such list HAVE been made up. There's been books and internet lists that cover some countries, and a state-by-state list for the USA, and so forth.

And in each and every case, guess how they arrive at their answers? They ask. Sounds logical enough, right? You just send a letter off to each of the 50 state capitols. Or you send a letter off to all the various European countries consulates or whatever. right? I mean ... who better to ask, than the entity themsleves, RIGHT?

But ... are you seeing the vicious circle yet? Where does that inquiry end up, when you pass it by an official. He in turn will pass it by various other desks, legal consultants, archies, etc... And SURE, you'll get your answer alright: They'll dream up and apply various things they think applies to this "pressing question". Or even to eventually invent a law (there's an entire state here in the USA that did just that for their state's parks! And in the preface to this addendum new rule, guess what they cite as the reason for this policy? "NUMEROUS INQUIRIES" doh! )

And then you get the poor old-timers who've always detected there, scratching their heads saying to themselves "gee, since when??". AAAGGGGGHHHHHhh When are we md'rs ever going to learn

 

[New Orleans Relic]

What state was that?
Was it documented?
When?
I'd love to read about this.
Ray

 

[M Scott @ FTP]

And what do you do if the policeman shrugged his shoulders and says "sure, why not?"

Or how about this dirtfisher: rather than think someone needs to "ask a policeman" or "ask a travel consulate", etc... can't someone just look up the laws for himself? And if he sees no law saying "no metal detectors", then why can't that be his answer? And if he saw a law(s) talking about antiquities and cultural heritage, FINE THEN, only go looking for new stuff. Why is the solution to go asking someone "can I?" rather than looking things up for oneself?

This same "go ask someone" philosophy is often the knee-jerk reaction here in the USA too. And the result of such is you get conflicting answers based on their mood, or the old "no one cared till you asked" routine.

And believe me, the routine occurs not only on small town basis', but can happen on national scales too. Such is the reason people have come away from asking about Mexico, to believe it's "strictly forbidden". So they leave the detectors at home. Imagine their surprise when they arrive at their tourist destination, only to see other plying the beach w/o a care in the world. So how did they get their information that it was "illegal"? They asked. And sure, if you ask the right persons, with the right connotations, they'll morph all sorts of wonderful things to apply to your question: Cultural heritage, shipwreck salvor laws, exporting gold bars out of the country, raiding the pyramaids, lost & found laws, etc.... You can ALWAYS find yourself a no, no matter where you ask, if you keep asking various people, using the right key-buzz-words.

Tom,
Have you ever visited or detected anywhere besides the USA?
Your convictions regarding international metal detecting laws and etiquette seems that you have experience in other countries?

If you have been to others as a guest with passport or visa you realize Americans do not have the same rights as they do in the USA…… Swinging a detector in a foreign land without first asking questions from officials and knowing the laws is idiotic and irresponsible and I hope you are not suggesting that’s what travelers should do…..-

Ignorance to the law is not acceptable in USA and even a worse excuse as a tourist/guest of another country. Laws and regulations are not as easy to access in other countries especially those with poor infrastructures which is the vast majority.

Are you saying that if you cant find any laws contrary to detecting in another country it must be ok and that you should do it as opposed to asking an official first?

Am I miss-understanding your position?

Mike

 

[1graeman]

Being retired Air Force, I spent 2 1/2 years in Turkey and I can say for a fact that you do not want to piss off the local police. You will go to jail for stealing artifacts. They are always looking for artifacts to put into their museums and they do not have a large budget to do so. So whatever you find that is old the officials will gladly take from you.
Their laws are much different than ours - for example if you are involved in a automobile accident and let's say that you were riding in a taxi (as most tourist do). whether or not it was the taxi driver's fault it will ultimately be your fault once the police arrive. A. you called a taxi, so if he would not have picked you up he would not have gotten in to an accident. B. You are American, that makes it 50% your fault as well - because Americans have money... Just be careful and study the local customs and courtesies of the country. Don't give the ok sign with your hand (a sign that you are gay and you are looking for someone), don't say the word peach (it means b@s#ard), don't sit with the sole of your shoe/foot facing upward to others (means that you are better than them), don't insult them(definite jail time), if you are a woman, don't wear short shorts, or sleeveless shirts, low cut or midriff showing tops(you will get spit on by the older local women) unless you are at the beach then it is ok to dress like that. If a local offers you to eat with them you should do so(if you turn them down then you are saying that you are better than them). I could go on and on with stories from there. It's a great country to visit as a tourist so go and enjoy the local culture and wait to hunt when you get home.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ray, I tried to find the link, but I can't find it right now. The state was Utah. At some point in the past, there was actually a link to a memo. Something passed down to rank-&-file rangers (or to the public or something). It was to the effect of the state's park's dept. stance on detectors in the state parks. And the introductory paragraph/sentence was ... uh ... "very telling". It started with something like

"... due to numerous inquiries the department receives each year, the following will serve to clarify the policy on the use of metal detectors ....." And so on, and so forth. And the rest went on to detail dire rules. To the casual reader, their mind would skip right to the "dire sounding rules", RIGHT? But wait ... did you catch the reason why such "clarification" ever hit the press? Go back and read again: "due to the numerous inquiries....". Apparently before that, it must not have been an issue. Maybe at one time, you could just go and no one cared? But lo & behold, one day, they issue a memo with some policies they deem necessary. Why? Because you asked.

Maybe someone else still has the link to that Utah thing?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ignorance to the law is not acceptable in USA and even a worse excuse as a tourist/guest of another country.

You're right. None of us should be ignorant of the law. If there's a law that forbids metal detecting, by all means, obey it.

Laws and regulations are not as easy to access in other countries

Then if someone can't find the law "because it's too hard", then you're right: let him leave the metal detector at home. Agreed.

Are you saying that if you cant find any laws contrary to detecting in another country it must be ok and that you should do it as opposed to asking an official first?

This questions assumes a person "can't find the laws". And I answered that above. If they can't "find the laws", fine then, "don't take a chance", and leave the detector at home. But if they "find the laws" and the laws don't forbid detecting, THEN WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? As far as "asking an official first", what are you asking an official? (think hard): you're asking him WHAT THE LAWS ARE. So ... duh, what will be the (supposed) basis for his reply? THE LAWS (what else is he going to base his answer on?). Do you see the vicious circle? If "the laws" are the basis for his response, the presto, look them up for yourself. And if "that's too hard", then fine, don't detect.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I spent 2 1/2 years in Turkey and I can say for a fact that you do not want to piss off the local police.

that's funny, I can't think of a single country where I would want to "piss off the police" This just implies that the "doer" is "doing" something wrong, in the first place. And isn't that what we're discussing here? Isn't that just assuming your own position in the debate, before discussion has started? By all means, if you can't do it, don't do it.

You will go to jail for stealing artifacts.

Fine, then don't "steal artifacts". Don't "steal artifacts" from the USA (or the UK, etc...) either.

They are always looking for artifacts to put into their museums and they do not have a large budget to do so

Have you talked to any archies and museum curators in the USA? Do you think they would say "we don't want artifacts" and "we have plenty of budget and don't want any more $$"? No. Of course not. Any archie here would bristle and tell you the exact same thing. Sure, just keep asking long enough and hard enough. Since when does any museum "not want artifacts" and since when does anyone say "we have all the $$ we need" ?

As for all the wonderful cultural "watch out" stuff, sure .... WATCH OUT! Why would anyone argue with those things? I know a guy who arrived at airport in Australia. He asked a guy: "hey buddy, can you tell me what time it is? The guy punched him in the mouth and said "don't call me your buddy!". Turns out, "buddy" in austrailia meant homos*xual. Doh. So sure, be aware of local customs and so forth. Who can argue with that? So just because every country has its social mores, doesn't mean that .... ergo ... you can't detect. Unless those "social mores" says that very thing. Does it?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ray, I found the link. Here it is. A fellow in Utah was haggling over a "no" answer he received from the Utah State parks dept. And within the back & forth communication between those two, here's the quote pulled. In this quote, the Utah person is drafting a reply back to the state, objecting to their "no" answer:

".... The possible root of your decision lays in the DAR file # 27442. That file addresses the need for control on our hobby not unlike the control the state issues on other sports and hobbies, such as fishing, hunting and 4X4 trails. Here is a quote from that file; "Parks receive numerous calls each year from people wanting to do metal detecting activities within the parks. The law is not specific enough that it addresses metal detecting, so if the Division requires a permit for metal detecting it can control the activity within the state parks. Metal detecting will be allowed only with a permit from the park, otherwise, it will be prohibited." [emphasis mine]

And here's the post it was taken from:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...inions-my-reply-state-parks-requirements.html


I do not know what DAR file #27442 is. Some sort of Utah parks dept. paperwork that the md'r is citing, that was behind the department's recent decision or answer they were giving this guy.

 

[dirtfisher23]

Finally, I have received word from the Consulate in Los Angeles; It reads as follows
with regards to the law regulating Metal Detecting in Turkey. HOWEVER, keep in mind
that not all local policing in Turkey may be on the same page. Ignorance runs rampant
everywhere. Some police are just as corrup as they are anywhere else and assume you do not
know the law, arrest you, and PRESTO they have a brand new metal detector. BEWARE!



From

Losangeles Ticaret Ataşeliği

To

Dear Sir:

We have checked the permission requirement for searching treasures and contacted in Turkish Custom Consul in Washington D.C. in this matter.

In Turkey, searching treasury is legal but those who want to search, need to apply to government office or nearest museum administration to receive the permission. In this case, administration issue a certificate and provide an witness officer accompanying with you during the search of specified area.

For metal detector for touristic purposes, entering to Turkey, Custom Consul in Washington D.C responded as ; This particular item is not listed as special item that the passenger can bring in limited quantity which means that it is considered as personal item. Any item for personal use up to 430 Euro value, can be entered with passenger and doesn't require additional custom charge. Since the product is special and custom officer may keep it, in this case, your detector is kept at the custom's warehouse, then you can receive back when you leave the Turkey.

If you need more assistance you can contact to Custom Consul in Washington directly [email protected]

Kindly Regards,



Murat GOREN

Commercial Attache of Los Angeles

 

[fella]

So detecting isn't strictly forbidden in Turkey! Hmmmm...

Who wants their plate of crow?