Harmonica box?

southernbandit · Feb 26, 2010

Here you go guy’s,
This was brought to me by a co-worker who found it at a yard sale or flea market.
It’s made of copper, and is 5 and ¼ inches by 2 inches by 1 and ½ inches deep.
We know nothing about it and just want to know if it is old, is it worth anything and
Maybe where it originated from.
Thank You,
Bandit

trikikiwi · Feb 28, 2010

I asked a Russian colleague for his opinion. Here is his response.
Hi Mike. By style this is definitely Eastern Europe or Russia, as the costumes are very similar to Russian fashions of 16th century. I would dare to say it can be a writing tools box, or really an eyeglasses box. The theme on it is capturing of some possibly Russian city (by architecture though it is simplified but resembles the style used on the icons of that time). The scenes depict burning houses, looting, killing of the locals and mass execution. As soon as the captors also look Russians it may well be the memory of capturing the city of Novgorod by the troops of Ivan the Terrible, as Novgorod was an old democratic state, member of Hanseatic League, and Ivan was trying to have it overtaken by Moscow rule, Novgorodians were resisting vigorously despite the famine within the city walls, but Moscow army at the end took over. A lot of people were executed (practically all local elite, "patricians"), about 10,000 left to die starving and the rest taken out of the city and re-settled deep into Russia in the city of Khlynov, where they live till today and speak the same dialect as Muscovites (same tribe of Vyatich). Khlynov was renamed into Vyatka by Katherine the Great (18th century), as its name was sounding "rebelliously" , and then renamed by Communists into Kirov, in 1935 in memory of Leningrad's Party leader, apparently killed at Stalin's demand. Now it is Vyatka again, some 800 km East from Moscow. I would date the box at 2nd half of 16th century.

The name of the owner is rather French, but Novgorod had a lot of foreigners living there, so maybe one of them ordered this box made as a memory of the disaster. The style of the bronze work itself is pretty consistent with the other Russian artefacts of the period I had in the past.

My colleague suggests that if you are selling the item, you would be better to use a top-end auction house as it is of museum quality.

Mike

Bigcypresshunter · Feb 28, 2010

Its a beautiful piece. I would like to see this in the banner.

imudaddy · Feb 28, 2010

I would have to agree with trikikiwi! Looks very very old to me.

Breezie · Feb 28, 2010

FANTASTIC find and great info from your Russian friend Mike! :thumbsup:

Breezie

Monty · Mar 1, 2010

When my father in law died we found several straight razors that had been left to him by his grandad when he was a teenager. A couple of the razors were very ornate and were in boxes similar to this one. Just a guess. Monty

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 1, 2010

Monty said:
When my father in law died we found several straight razors that had been left to him by his grandad when he was a teenager. A couple of the razors were very ornate and were in boxes similar to this one. Just a guess. Monty

Its worth consdidering. Straight razor boxes are this shape, felt on one side and the paper ID inside the lid may be missing.

southernbandit · Mar 1, 2010

Wow! this is getting more interesting all the time!!

I again thank each and every one of you for your time and input.
I especially thank you Trikikiwi for your help and ask that you thank
your friend Mike for me for his part. :notworthy:

I did take a couple more pictures of the name on it and these
Are about as good as I can get. I tried to make it a little darker
In hopes you could see it better.

I almost didn’t put it on for my friend because I thought it was
Probably nothing. I have let him read all the posts and I’ll let him
Decide what he wants to do with it. I’ll let you all know what he does.
Thanks Again Everybody!!
You Guy’s still Rock in My Book! :headbang:

Bandit

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 1, 2010

I cant make out the last letter. Its as if the engraver ran out of room.

southernbandit · Mar 1, 2010

Bigcypresshunter, I can't make it out either and I'm holding it. :icon_scratch:

all the letter's look like (ale?ander degrod)
or maybe .....................(alesander degrc?)
or maybe......................(alexander degrol)
I just can't tell, looks like that guys foot is in the way. $:-\$
I'll keep trying and looking on my end. I would just like
to see a similar one.
Thanks Again
Bandit

shaun7 · Mar 1, 2010

I think it's degrock!

BuckleBoy · Mar 2, 2010

southernbandit said:
Bigcypresshunter, I can't make it out either and I'm holding it.
all the letter's look like (ale?ander degrod)
or maybe .....................(alesander degrc?)
or maybe......................(alexander degrol)
I just can't tell, looks like that guys foot is in the way. $:-\$
I'll keep trying and looking on my end. I would just like
to see a similar one.
Thanks Again
Bandit

Bandit,

Did you see post #21? I would have thought you'd be cheering or at least making arrangements to buy a new boat by now.

-Buck

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 2, 2010

southernbandit said:
Bigcypresshunter, I can't make it out either and I'm holding it.
all the letter's look like (ale?ander degrod)
or maybe .....................(alesander degrc?)
or maybe......................(alexander degrol)
I just can't tell, looks like that guys foot is in the way. $:-\$
I'll keep trying and looking on my end. I would just like
to see a similar one.
Thanks Again
Bandit

I just noticed the letter after d'Eg is exactly like the "r" at the end of alesander. So it may be alesander d'Egro_? I cant get the last letter(s). alesander de groh?

tuatara · Mar 2, 2010

asked a Russian colleague for his opinion. Here is his response.
Hi Mike. By style this is definitely Eastern Europe or Russia, as the costumes are very similar to Russian fashions of 16th century. I would dare to say it can be a writing tools box, or really an eyeglasses box. The theme on it is capturing of some possibly Russian city (by architecture though it is simplified but resembles the style used on the icons of that time). The scenes depict burning houses, looting, killing of the locals and mass execution. As soon as the captors also look Russians it may well be the memory of capturing the city of Novgorod by the troops of Ivan the Terrible, as Novgorod was an old democratic state, member of Hanseatic League, and Ivan was trying to have it overtaken by Moscow rule, Novgorodians were resisting vigorously despite the famine within the city walls, but Moscow army at the end took over. A lot of people were executed (practically all local elite, "patricians"), about 10,000 left to die starving and the rest taken out of the city and re-settled deep into Russia in the city of Khlynov, where they live till today and speak the same dialect as Muscovites (same tribe of Vyatich). Khlynov was renamed into Vyatka by Katherine the Great (18th century), as its name was sounding "rebelliously" , and then renamed by Communists into Kirov, in 1935 in memory of Leningrad's Party leader, apparently killed at Stalin's demand. Now it is Vyatka again, some 800 km East from Moscow. I would date the box at 2nd half of 16th century.

The name of the owner is rather French, but Novgorod had a lot of foreigners living there, so maybe one of them ordered this box made as a memory of the disaster. The style of the bronze work itself is pretty consistent with the other Russian artefacts of the period I had in the past.

My colleague suggests that if you are selling the item, you would be better to use a top-end auction house as it is of museum quality.
Mike

I believe this mystery is solved. Those Russian folk costumes are telltale. Just have a look at their boots and caps. I would say it's writing accessories box according to its shape. Many Russian things were manufactured by Germans or French craftsmen who BTW lived in Russia as it had a good market.

southernbandit · Mar 2, 2010

Hey BuckleBoy! :hello:

Yes I did see the post and yes I’m ecstatic about it. :icon_sunny:

I can hardly handle it even though the item isn’t mine. :tongue3:

I have showed my friend all the posts and he simple
wants to do some more digging. He don’t get excited about many things.
I have actually sent the same pictures to a couple of appraiser just
to see if we can get anything further at this time.
He is going to sell it for sure to some place or someone.
I will tell everyone what the final outcome of this is.

You guys are AWSOME!!! :notworthy:

Thanks EveryOne!!