Help with ID & possible value please

[NHBandit]

Help with ID & possible value please

Have the opportunity to buy this and would like the opinion of the experts. Value, authenticity, mint, etc. Thanks.

 

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[goldcoastwayne]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

The photographs make it very hard to make out the details, but I can tell you the following:

The coin is "Pillars and Waves" which makes it at least 1652 or later. It appears to be from the Potosi, Bolivia mint. It appears to be a 2 reale. The last digit appears to be an "8" in the date. I initially thought the assayer was a "V", and there are two assayers with that mark. With the digit "8" it fits neither assayers time period. If the mark is a monogrammed VR then it is Pedro de Villar, 1679 - 1699 - so it is possible that it is 1688 or 1698. If that assayers mark is an "M" then it is from 1728 - 1732, and 1737 - 1740.

Perhaps Don or Stan can shed more light on your coin. As far as authenticity...I don't render those opinions and the biggest help would be the weight, but that won't be possible with that bezel on it.

Your cross is known as a "cross of Jerusalem". Sorry I can't be more help than what I observed. Some better close-up pictures would help us.

goldcoastwayne

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

NH,
If possible, can you put a US quarter in with a sharper pic of the Pillars side coin?
Don....

 

[NHBandit]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

Sorry guys. I know it's nearly impossible to tell much from these pics but it's for sale at a local auction and I don't have access to it to take better pics. I can enlarge the pics on the auction site and it looks like the date is 1788 ? Would that even be possible for this style of cob ?

 

[goldcoastwayne]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

Sorry guys. I know it's nearly impossible to tell much from these pics but it's for sale at a local auction and I don't have access to it to take better pics. I can enlarge the pics on the auction site and it looks like the date is 1788 ? Would that even be possible for this style of cob ?

The "pillars and waves" style were made between 1652 and 1773 at the Potosi mint. The key to the date is obviously the third row, middle...keep in mind there will only be two digits...thus 88. The verification is the assayers mark in the upper right hand corner...1st row, 3rd box. I previously stated that the assayer looked to be "VR"...an 88 would fit his coins. If the date is in fact an "88", your coin's assayer is Pedro de Villar, 1679-1699....therefore 1688. That is only based on what I believe I see.

goldcoastwayne

 

[dagfoto]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

made by the website Atocha1622.com .. should be marked on back ( atc )

was about 24.95 new ..

yet this one is an older one .. no longer on his list

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

After looking at the website where the auction is held, I agree with GCW's assessement: 2R, 1688; 'VR' monogrammed assayer's initials. Whether or not it is real or a replica, is beyond me.

Don.....

 

[divewrecks]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

I agree with Dagfoto. This is a repro coin that I am pretty sure I have seen.

Stan

 

[goldcoastwayne]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

Perhaps Don or Stan can shed more light on your coin. As far as authenticity...I don't render those opinions and the biggest help would be the weight, but that won't be possible with that bezel on it.

Authentic or not .......it sure is fun identifying the original.

Wayne

 

[NHBandit]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

Thanks guys. This is why I love this place. It looked good to me and I'd have probably bid on it.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

Doesn't the auctioneer guarantee the items to be authentic? Don't ask about the cob, just ask a general question. In fact, be looking at something you know is legit when you ask.

As for the cob, I don't think anyone can say with those pics unless they can match a replica. What strikes me funny is the amount of tarnish on the bezel. Only a dumb criminal would be stupid enough to artificially age both the coin and bezel. I'm not saying an older silver bezel can't take on some color, but I bet the vast majority for sale are shiny and new looking because the bezel really means nothing. Maybe someone who follows these can comment on pieces showing up in older looking bezels. I've bought maybe half a dozen 8 reale cobs but never paid any attention to ones which were mounted. I'd either have to see this one in person or have a guarantee from the sale it's authentic.

 

[dagfoto]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

from 1998 cataloge

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

made by the website Atocha1622.com .. should be marked on back ( atc )

was about 24.95 new ..

yet this one is an older one .. no longer on his list

from 1998 cataloge

Great ID dagfoto. My first question also would be why is it dirty? Are they hiding something? Are they trying to make it look old or dug out of the ground lol?

I agree its most likely one of the Atocha replicas.

 

[dagfoto]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

those early ones were gold plated .. the gold wore off after awhile.. He only makes solid gold bezels now..

was probably sitt'n around in the junk box "toning" .. before the sale ,,

It was a popular style.. I use to sell alot of them in a store I had..

 

[goldcoastwayne]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

from 1998 cataloge

Dagfoto nailed it...it is "430D" in that catalogue. Also, notice that is "the cross of Jerusalem with no ornate quatrefoil". The authentic coin was 1688.

goldcoastwayne

 

[divewrecks]

Re: Help with ID & possible value please

Good job Dag!....

Stan