Is There Any Evidence that the Lost Dutchman Mine really exists?

[Oroblanco]

Bob,

I have had some Feather River (California) gold that ran almost 98% pure. No additives, no preservatives!

Frank,

I have seen nuggets that are about impossible to tell are fakes. Simple to make too. Say I want to fake some nice Chocolate Mountains (California) nuggets (approx 65% gold, 20% silver, 10% copper, 5% lead). I start by mathematically figuring out what I need to have. Pure Gold, Pure Silver, Pure Copper, Pure Lead. I will round things off for simplicity. 65 ounces of gold, 20 ounces silver, etc etc etc. Smelt them together, and we have a perfect Chocolate Mountain Natural Gold Alloy. Pour it into a mold, and let cool. Fill up a 5gal bucket with ice and water. Wait till its as cold as it is going to get. Place the bucket on the floor underneath a bench vise. Place the bar in the vise, then hit it with a MAP Gas or Oxy-Acetylene Torch. Slowly melt it and let the globs of molten gold hit the ice water, and by the time that gold hits the bottom of the bucket, it looks as natural as you can get.

Mike

I don't know Mike, it sounds like an easy process but not so sure it would look right. I have a couple of "nugget" rings with fake nuggets, made by a jeweler, and they just don't look right. They don't look right to the eye even without a magnifying glass, compared with the genuine article. Have you tried your process and compared the result with real (Chocolate mtn range example) nuggets? Maybe it would work, or maybe they would not look quite right either?

 

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[azdave35]

I don't know Mike, it sounds like an easy process but not so sure it would look right. I have a couple of "nugget" rings with fake nuggets, made by a jeweler, and they just don't look right. They don't look right to the eye even without a magnifying glass, compared with the genuine article. Have you tried your process and compared the result with real (Chocolate mtn range example) nuggets? Maybe it would work, or maybe they would not look quite right either?

i'll go along with roy.....there are a few ways to make fake nuggets....some people use a torch and drop the molten gold into wet rice...i've never seen one i couldnt spot as a fake..a few years back people were selling man made nuggets on ebay...most natural nuggets are very irregular in shape...high and low spots...natural nuggets will be worn smooth on the high spots but still have a rough texture down in the low spots..its kinda hard to fake that part

 

[Azquester]

Dave,

I suppose you could just do like the Curator of the Buffalo Bill Museum down here in Catalina does with his Iron Door Mine Ore and send quartz to China where they use gold leaf to make it look like a piece of Ore. Its very realistic looking and could fool the best. It fooled our local gold club! The Gold Ore was going up for raffle that is until I told them it was made in China and the price went from $1500 down to zero.

It looks totally real and unless you check it for specific gravity you can't tell it was man made. It's called Jewelry Grade Ore.

I could see how it would be easy to take a natural looking piece of Quartz and cover it with leaf now that would look like a natural gold nugget as you have all the wear of the rock underneath.


It's called Cody Stone.

I think would be easy for the Chinese to fake a nugget if they can put gold and silver in a rock and make it look this good.
Heres some pix:

View attachment 1182239 View attachment 1182240 View attachment 1182241 View attachment 1182242

i'll go along with roy.....there are a few ways to make fake nuggets....some people use a torch and drop the molten gold into wet rice...i've never seen one i couldnt spot as a fake..a few years back people were selling man made nuggets on ebay...most natural nuggets are very irregular in shape...high and low spots...natural nuggets will be worn smooth on the high spots but still have a rough texture down in the low spots..its kinda hard to fake that part

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, Amigo.
Nice thread ,Whats Important is do you as an individual Treasure Hunter and Researcher believe in this Story,thats all that matters,nothing else.
After reading and researching the story,what doe's your inner Treasure Hunting Spirit tell you? All the directions are there except for what Julia
privately knew.NP

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco, Amigo.
Nice thread ,Whats Important is do you as an individual Treasure Hunter and Researcher believe in this Story,thats all that matters,nothing else.
After reading and researching the story,what doe's your inner Treasure Hunting Spirit tell you? All the directions are there except for what Julia
privately knew.NP

Thanks and I presume that is a rhetorical question. As in, what counts most is what each person believes. I am convinced that the Lost Dutchman legend as it stands, is a hodge-podge mix of at least a half dozen, perhaps as many as nine different, unrelated lost mine stories including a couple that are not even in the Superstition range.

Oh and I am 100% convinced that Waltz had a rich gold mine, but it would not be recognized to fit the world-wide famous tale now, even if someone does find it tomorrow. I don't put much faith in any of the "directions" from Julia or Holmes. Not when that tale has so many matching elements from the Ludy-Peralta story. Unless, of course, we are to assume that the Peraltas went and hired Waltz and Weiser in the exact same way as with the Ludys, and had an exact same set of circumstances and events that entailed. Anyway NO, personally I do not believe the Story as it is so widely known and accepted. I am convinced that the alternate, Pinto creek version is far more likely nearer the truth. After all, there really IS gold in Pinto creek, a major point in looking for a gold mine, is where gold has been found, right?
　
　

 

[gollum]

i'll go along with roy.....there are a few ways to make fake nuggets....some people use a torch and drop the molten gold into wet rice...i've never seen one i couldnt spot as a fake..a few years back people were selling man made nuggets on ebay...most natural nuggets are very irregular in shape...high and low spots...natural nuggets will be worn smooth on the high spots but still have a rough texture down in the low spots..its kinda hard to fake that part

I haven't seen the "wet rice" trick (so far as I know). Gold Nuggets run the gamut from totally smooth, smooth high spots, and even crystaline gold that is all folded over and crushed.

The idea for the alloy came from a discussion about how to legally sell a stack of gold bars found in a cave. You show up at a smelter/refiner with two or three refined bars, and tongues will wag. You show up with a couple of pounds of 65% gold dore or nuggets and dust, its not quite as big a deal.

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

There are places in Alaska where people show up with their own gold bars all the time and sell them. Yukon Gold shows people doing this.

 

[KXMember]

There are places in Alaska where people show up with their own gold bars all the time and sell them. Yukon Gold shows people doing this.

The TV show? Lol

 

[azdave35]

I haven't seen the "wet rice" trick (so far as I know). Gold Nuggets run the gamut from totally smooth, smooth high spots, and even crystaline gold that is all folded over and crushed.

The idea for the alloy came from a discussion about how to legally sell a stack of gold bars found in a cave. You show up at a smelter/refiner with two or three refined bars, and tongues will wag. You show up with a couple of pounds of 65% gold dore or nuggets and dust, its not quite as big a deal.

Mike

mike...there are some guys around here that make man made gold in quartz......they take quartz..cut it into a square cube....put the cube in the oven and heat it up..then they yank it out of the oven and drop it cold water so it fractures ..then they put the cube in a vacuum chamber and pour the molten gold over the cube and it sucks it into the cracks..then they stabilize it....ive had some of it and they do a great job on it but you can still tell its man made

 

[gollum]

There are places in Alaska where people show up with their own gold bars all the time and sell them. Yukon Gold shows people doing this.

Yeah, but I live in Southern California. Not many people around here selling refined (not by a refiner) gold bars. Small dores maybe. Dust and nuggets absolutely. Less of an issue.

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

The TV show? Lol

Yes, the TV show. I have seen people on that show have their gold purified and made into gold bars which they then turned around and sold to local gold dealers in Alaska. I'm curious, do you doubt that goes on for some reason? Why would that sort of thing come as a surprise?

 

[rplatym]

The mine is real I found it ,I am the great great grandson of the Dutchman's friend. Jacob waltz called his partner weiser ,short for Ebenezer they used there first names and that is how they came up with Jacob weiser this how no one could track them to it . Everyone has looked in the wrong mountain its not in the superstition mountain its in the superstitious mountain, its on a 160 acre ranch I have un dug this mine this I have tryed to let it be known that I have found this mine so people can quit looking for it . one thing about this mine is that way to many people have died over it and have looked for this mine and died looking for it . This is why it has been hid back then it was when the Indians were very mad about the miners invaiding there land they lost so many of there tribe to this mine . They were peaceful Indians until they had been forced into retaliating against the Spanish who have inslaved them in to digging this mine . They killed the Spanish this is how they lost this mine . The Indians were attacking the miners and this is why Jacob left and his partner got along with the Indians here just like I do they are my family I have lived around them my whole life my grandpa had sent me to where I found this mine . He was 93 yrs old when he died do to the drugs that he was forced to take by my mother and sisters he didn't need it or want it for some reason they figured they have are above the law . So fare they have got away with it . But they have forced him to take the drugs and he died . They are trying to take my house and the ranch he gave me and this is where the mine is and he has gave it to me . I have worked on this for five yrs as he clued this to me after I found the quartz vein on our property. He told me the day before they took him from his home that it was the Dutchman and I have put it all together. I am not positive of why they have done this to us but. I'm pretty certain why they have done wrong you don't make someone to take drugs they have asked not to give them to him until he dies thats murder to me . This mine has tooken enough people this needs to stop so the reason I am bringing this out is they are trying to take this from me . I have put this all together that this is the mine and I want to do help people with it . People need to stop looking for it its not lost anymore and it never was it was hid from the greedy . This mine needs to go to helping not herting I will need some help with it not shur who too talk to but this mine is the worlds richest gold mine in the world according to the story's and I feel it need to go to helping the world all I want is too go around help people that need it . Starting with the wounded soldiers from the war ,help the homeless people ,help people in disaster areas . If there is anyone that can help with this let me know . No more pain so It need to end even my grandpa lost his life over it . There is no reason why people should ack this way over it .

 

[Simon1]

rplatym: Sounds like noble intentions if true, but what can you show us, or provide us with, as proof so all those dedicated to the search can safely live another day searching for something else ?

 

[sdcfia]

rplatym: Sounds like noble intentions if true, but what can you show us, or provide us with, as proof so all those dedicated to the search can safely live another day searching for something else ?

Ha ha. If this story was proven true and the location revealed, there'd be maniacs covering that 160 acres like white on rice.

 

[Oroblanco]

rplatym: Sounds like noble intentions if true, but what can you show us, or provide us with, as proof so all those dedicated to the search can safely live another day searching for something else ?

Ditto, we would like to see some proof/evidence to support what you posted. Quite a few people have appeared on these forums and claimed to have found the mine and yet never seem to have any gold to show nor even photos of the mine or gold vein. Thanks in advance;

Happy 4th of July!

 

[deducer]

rplatym: Sounds like noble intentions if true, but what can you show us, or provide us with, as proof so all those dedicated to the search can safely live another day searching for something else ?

Don't encourage him.

We get one of those every now and then. They come and go.

 

[SGnAZ]

WOW I wont quote the guy but

 

[Azquester]

Rplatym,

Sure PM me Ill help you remove gold ore from the mine. I have experience with hard rock mining and know the ends and outs of it.
I have no problem carrying large buckets of gold.

The mine is real I found it ,I am the great great grandson of the Dutchman's friend. Jacob waltz called his partner weiser ,short for Ebenezer they used there first names and that is how they came up with Jacob weiser this how no one could track them to it . Everyone has looked in the wrong mountain its not in the superstition mountain its in the superstitious mountain, its on a 160 acre ranch I have un dug this mine this I have tryed to let it be known that I have found this mine so people can quit looking for it . one thing about this mine is that way to many people have died over it and have looked for this mine and died looking for it . This is why it has been hid back then it was when the Indians were very mad about the miners invaiding there land they lost so many of there tribe to this mine . They were peaceful Indians until they had been forced into retaliating against the Spanish who have inslaved them in to digging this mine . They killed the Spanish this is how they lost this mine . The Indians were attacking the miners and this is why Jacob left and his partner got along with the Indians here just like I do they are my family I have lived around them my whole life my grandpa had sent me to where I found this mine . He was 93 yrs old when he died do to the drugs that he was forced to take by my mother and sisters he didn't need it or want it for some reason they figured they have are above the law . So fare they have got away with it . But they have forced him to take the drugs and he died . They are trying to take my house and the ranch he gave me and this is where the mine is and he has gave it to me . I have worked on this for five yrs as he clued this to me after I found the quartz vein on our property. He told me the day before they took him from his home that it was the Dutchman and I have put it all together. I am not positive of why they have done this to us but. I'm pretty certain why they have done wrong you don't make someone to take drugs they have asked not to give them to him until he dies thats murder to me . This mine has tooken enough people this needs to stop so the reason I am bringing this out is they are trying to take this from me . I have put this all together that this is the mine and I want to do help people with it . People need to stop looking for it its not lost anymore and it never was it was hid from the greedy . This mine needs to go to helping not herting I will need some help with it not shur who too talk to but this mine is the worlds richest gold mine in the world according to the story's and I feel it need to go to helping the world all I want is too go around help people that need it . Starting with the wounded soldiers from the war ,help the homeless people ,help people in disaster areas . If there is anyone that can help with this let me know . No more pain so It need to end even my grandpa lost his life over it . There is no reason why people should ack this way over it .

 

[KXMember]

Yes, the TV show. I have seen people on that show have their gold purified and made into gold bars which they then turned around and sold to local gold dealers in Alaska. I'm curious, do you doubt that goes on for some reason? Why would that sort of thing come as a surprise?

Most of what happens on the show is scripted.

 

[torie517]

All I can say is I am finding Spanish mines on middle march road AZ. THERE IS ALL THE EVIDENCE.