Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

[Ol' Kentuck]

"Who...Who..." LOL

In February of 2018 the video SD posted for us to watch was put on YouTube for anyone to see...The supposed premise of the video as Dan L. mentioned was to confirm or denounce events and characters in the BB and it did start out that way, I thought he would be doing like we are and taking each person and topic and through research doing what he said he was going to do in that video. I agree with his intro and I believe most people would regarding the CW.

Dan told Carter the way he went about researching the BB was to take each event and person in order of appearance in the book and research as he went along. Made Sense To Me.

I do not know the guy at all, he looked normal, seemed to have a normal home from what can be seen and the interview between him and Carter started off shockingly normal. It didn't last long though before he got to talking about Captain Harrison Trow who JJ3 had claimed in the BB was an alias JWJ had concocted who was to be an aide to Gov. TT Crittenden which coincides with where we are in the book.

In the video he says Trow has No Past At All...Nothing, Just An Alias That Was Created on April 3rd, 1882...The day of the shooting. He did say that JWJ kept the Alias of Capt.Trow alive and that it was killed off in Hereford, Texas.

Captain Harrison Trow Was A Real Live Man...Seperate of JWJ.

He did serve with Quantrill and knew Jesse and Frank James.

He was born in Allegheny Co, Pennsylvania 10-1843 to Salem Trow and Laura Jewett the 6th of 7 children. He had Children, Grandparents and Great Grandparents. I won't go into his full genealogy but it's extensive.

The family moved to Illinois where his Mother died and then the family moved to Linn Co, MO.

The 1860 Census has him in Blue Springs, MO living with the Hudspeths. Side note...A lot of the boys out that way joined up with Quantrill or the Confederates. Trow returned from the war and married Missouri Ann Jesse in Jackson County, MO.
They had two Children. They moved to Texas and he passed on 10-06-1925 in Hereford, Deaf Smith County Texas at age 81. He did attend Quantrill Raider Reunions.

Harrison Trow was one of A.L. Dillenbeck and Elmer Stewart's Charcoal Drawing Subjects for the 'Quantrill Society' series taken from photographs 28yrs after the war ended. What is said in the video about that is kinda confusing and somewhat incorrect. The BB doesn't discuss it for obvious reasons.

I wasn't going to do this, but after thinking more about it and remembering things folks have said and what was said in such a factual way by a guy that appears to be earnest and confident in his research in Just That One YouTube Video...I'm going to say my thoughts again, not just on the BB and this One Video but many books and videos and even records.

IF Anyone Really Cares About A Certain Part of History, Events and the People Involved...We All Have To Research and Get 2-3 Reliable and Official Records To Confirm What's What and Who's Who, On Our Own. No Way Around It. There is a very short list of people that do extensive research on these topics, who don't have an agenda, but even then, they are human and where they get upset at mistakes or oversights they make...sometimes it's just that...an oversight or error and Not Intentional.

Using the BB and video as an example since it's here for everyone to see...That Misinformation IS Intentional. It didn't start out that way on the video....but quickly went from dissecting the BB to Parroting it Verbatim and Confirming Everything In It Along with Adding More Misinformation To It That Anyone Could Verify Easily As True or False. Pictures were shown that he said were of JWJ, AFJ and their Mother...They weren't even close to them. He's Not The Only One That Does This By Any Means on Public Online Sites, Books and Forums.

I've learned a lot from many of you guys, I love the diversity of knowledge here on subjects that interest me, and those things that didn't but do now. After reading something here that I wasn't really familiar with, I would research it. I quickly learned who really had experience or delved deep into topics and researched them beyond The Fictional Books, Blogs and YouTube with a One Sided Agenda or just relied on Google or Wikipedia. Regulars here that I know are serious I don't even research it now because I know if I ask a question it will be an accurate answer. That's a good feeling and my go to people...on anything I want an answer to.

That all being said, it's a sad state of affairs that with all of the resources available in this day and age to confirm things, people have to fight to be able to recover true history and it's just getting worse. History Books haven't always told the truth in the first place and now books are being replaced with the internet and what Anyone wants to put on there. Friends of mine who are teachers are amazed at the things their students come up with and they spend a lot of their time locating the source of the students papers only to find its from some conspiracy sites that's so far off even the basic truth.

The BB, Orvus and Del I think are the Grandfathers of BS in Print on This Subject... Just To Scam People. At least they seem to have the record for longevity, quantity and plagerism on it. It's Crystal Clear to me why there had to be 3-4 sets of Jesse and Frank James, Wives and Mothers to cover all the lies and why the nonexistent characters and aliases had to be created in this story.

I truly apologize for my rant about this... I was up and down most of the night reading and watching videos and looking at records. While researching John Trammell who they claimed was 121yrs old at the time of his death..I saw another black man...Charlie Smith who it was claimed was 135yrs old....Guess Who was behind that...JJ3! He said he had belonged to the Jesse James family as a slave. Should of known he was behind it trying to sell the story.

I want to thank you guys for doing this little project on the BB with me. I'd like to think that after this is done, maybe someone will read it years from now and appreciate us trying to get the truth out on these topics.

Thanks Again,
Kace

Trow was also one of Quantrill's men who split off at Crowley's Ridge, Arkansas to join with General Price instead of following Quantrill on to Kentucky. Along with Trow were the Hudspeth's, Morrow's, and Jesse James. (Frank continued on to Kentucky with Quantrill.)

Kinda hard to explain how Jesse and Trow rode alongside each other if Trow was only an "Alias", ye reckon?

 

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[sdcfia]

As Tolstoy said, "History would be a great thing, if only it were true." We all are conditioned to accept bedrock narratives that guide our lives and answer our questions. Civilization, politics, religions, the sciences. Crowd control, get everyone on the same page if possible. Problem is, the narratives tend to shift when you look at bigger pictures with longer time spans. If we are wont to question any of this, we find ourselves out of step and our curiosity leads us backward in time to try to verify the narratives. That's where the trouble starts. What evidence is unassailable? What is bedrock, really?

To me, the BB is an example of a "You can't see the forest for the trees" distraction. Trying to verify all the outrageous allegations in it seems like a fool's errand to me, because it's obviously going to be an impossible task. Trow was a player back in the day, and there'll be more players on the scene in later chapters. Some of them will have acceptable paper trails, some of them won't. IMO the whole shebang is an allegory - a bigger picture. Was there a covert group with a hidden agenda? May as well try to locate all those WMDs in Iraq - another distraction.

 

[Kace]

Trow was also one of Quantrill's men who split off at Crowley's Ridge, Arkansas to join with General Price instead of following Quantrill on to Kentucky. Along with Trow were the Hudspeth's, Morrow's, and Jesse James. (Frank continued on to Kentucky with Quantrill.)

Kinda hard to explain how Jesse and Trow rode alongside each other if Trow was only an "Alias", ye reckon?

I knew that Kentucky Knowledge would help! There are Morrow's buried there too.

Kace

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

As Tolstoy said, "History would be a great thing, if only it were true." We all are conditioned to accept bedrock narratives that guide our lives and answer our questions. Civilization, politics, religions, the sciences. Crowd control, get everyone on the same page if possible. Problem is, the narratives tend to shift when you look at bigger pictures with longer time spans. If we are wont to question any of this, we find ourselves out of step and our curiosity leads us backward in time to try to verify the narratives. That's where the trouble starts. What evidence is unassailable? What is bedrock, really?

To me, the BB is an example of a "You can't see the forest for the trees" distraction. Trying to verify all the outrageous allegations in it seems like a fool's errand to me, because it's obviously going to be an impossible task. Trow was a player back in the day, and there'll be more players on the scene in later chapters. Some of them will have acceptable paper trails, some of them won't. IMO the whole shebang is an allegory - a bigger picture. Was there a covert group with a hidden agenda? May as well try to locate all those WMDs in Iraq - another distraction.

I have ta agree with ye there, the BB is allegorical if ye want ta wax philersophical about it.

Houk was a brilliant con man, literary genius, and alchemist. In everything he touched (tha BB being his magnum opus) he mixed Fact and Fiction into a delicious Conspiracy Stew, changing Something into Nothing. And every hungry BB Conspiracist since has been attempting their own alchemy by trying ta turn his Nothing into Something.

In the world of Conspiracy Theory, the Truth is indeed relative.

Allegory? It's a textbook case of tha Blind Men and tha Elephant. Each blind man, conspiracy theorist, has a limited perspective on the objective truth, but that doesn’t mean objective truth isn’t there. In fact, truth ain’t relative at all. The elephant is there and I reckon Kace can point to it all day long, but if yer blind ta tha facts, the Truth, yer mind will make up it's own version and misinterpretations based on yer own reality, preconceptions, and emotional needs - those "bedrock narratives that guide our lives".

Bring on tha Elephant, Kace. I got me some popcorn and my new readin glasses.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL!

 

[Kace]

As Tolstoy said, "History would be a great thing, if only it were true." We all are conditioned to accept bedrock narratives that guide our lives and answer our questions. Civilization, politics, religions, the sciences. Crowd control, get everyone on the same page if possible. Problem is, the narratives tend to shift when you look at bigger pictures with longer time spans. If we are wont to question any of this, we find ourselves out of step and our curiosity leads us backward in time to try to verify the narratives. That's where the trouble starts. What evidence is unassailable? What is bedrock, really?

To me, the BB is an example of a "You can't see the forest for the trees" distraction. Trying to verify all the outrageous allegations in it seems like a fool's errand to me, because it's obviously going to be an impossible task. Trow was a player back in the day, and there'll be more players on the scene in later chapters. Some of them will have acceptable paper trails, some of them won't. IMO the whole shebang is an allegory - a bigger picture. Was there a covert group with a hidden agenda? May as well try to locate all those WMDs in Iraq - another distraction.

I don't think we can get into Hidden Agendas, Allegories, The Royal Family, KGC, Illuminati, Maniacal Marauding Masons and whether while looking for a bumbling goofball, mentally ill, con & criminal dunce to put disinformation out they found straight from central casting..... Orvus Lee Howk.

I agree with you 100% that there will be a lot of things in the BB that Can't Be Confirmed.. No Way. There are Plenty of things that can be confirmed or denounced without question...

For me, because I'm more of a literal person, I tend to keep it as simple as possible. Just use the BB and Records. The videos are fine I think if the main purpose of them is the BB.

My reason for wanting to do it this way this is simple too...On the Events and People That Are Mentioned In The BB That Can Be Confirmed as Real or Not...Just state that by using Records.

If people who claim to have all this factual historical knowledge believe the book to be an allegory......that's fine, but Say That Like You Do in their books or internet posts and explain it. Don't pull out a section like on Trow and flat out lie about it. He used the same book as he claimed to be dissecting as the source for information??

I don't agree with it being an allegory at all, I think that's another way of saying 'This Crap Is So Flippin' Unbelievable, There's Got To Be A Message Here'. But...I respect your opinion on it and if I was ever in your area, I'd like nothing more than to buy you a drink and hear your thoughts and reasons for thinking that. I respect others views...yours, because I've read your posts and I think you are a smart and knowledgeable guy. I'm sure I'd learn a thing or two.

My point in this is...History is being lost everyday....The internet is the go to for information and because Jesse James is a Brand and JJ and Co were prominent in the CW era, almost all of everything being published or broadcast today is derived from the BB. We have guys on here quoting things as fact from JJ3 that I don't think they even realize that's where it comes from. At least I hope not. They got it from another copycat book or the internet.

Regardless of the reasons for the BB... Allegory or BS for profit, this thread has to stay just on the book and recognized historical records if it's to continue. If this thread ever finishes just using the BB and Records, then we can put out all the letters from Howk/JJ3, Schrader and others and try and see what the premise back then was about. There's a lot of early, first person documentation. Opinions then would be great.

This thread cannot go on opinions or theories at all or it will lead to arguments. There's already been shots, pokes and LOL's posted and ignored but that never lasts forever. People eventually respond back and It runs good people off from threads who just want to have a discussion on a topic. Look how many people are gone after the Missouri post.

In the beginning we agreed not to do that stuff and just use the records and BB. If we want to continue let's just keep it that way. BB videos are ok. Not everyone has the book but everyone can get record access. I don't mind posting from the book along with those who have it for those who don't.

Kace

 

[sdcfia]

... In the world of Conspiracy Theory, the Truth is indeed relative...

Exactly. In this case, Houk and Shrader are the theorists. Their job was easy. The hard part is being a Conspiracy Analyst.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

W/O an agenda...

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Exactly. In this case, Houk and Shrader are the theorists. Their job was easy. The hard part is being a Conspiracy Analyst.

True enough, but I don't reckon tha facts will git in the way of a good analyzin', might even hep out a bit.

When dealin with a tale like this'n, a feller has ta know which statements are true an which are false before he can figger out the why of things. It don't matter what bait yer usin or if yer holdin yer mouth right if there ain't no fish in the pond. I reckon that's what Kace is tryin ta do here by startin at tha beginnin of the BB an goin forward. When ye start bloviatin' about the theories, the why's, right off ye miss the details and git lost in a big load of suppositions. Ye can chew that gristle ferever an not git anywhere. I reckon it may seem repetitious and some of ye may feel like ye've been through all this before and yer jest wastin yer time by goin over it again. And to those folks, I reckon yer welcome ta go on yer merry way, cozy in yer own ideas, and good luck to ye. But then again, we all might learn somethin we missed if we jest withhold judgement and our own preconcieved idears, and review the information piece by piece like Kace is tryin ta present it.

I reckon there will be plenty of time ta chew on tha whys and toss around opinions after we figger out what's true and what ain't. Ye only get to tha meat by trimmin away the fat and gristle. I don't know bout the rest of ye, but I like ta make sure it's steak I'm bein served up and not tofu shaped like one.

 

[sdcfia]

I don't think we can get into Hidden Agendas, Allegories, The Royal Family, KGC, Illuminati, Maniacal Marauding Masons and whether while looking for a bumbling goofball, mentally ill, con & criminal dunce to put disinformation out they found straight from central casting..... Orvus Lee Howk.

I agree with you 100% that there will be a lot of things in the BB that Can't Be Confirmed.. No Way. There are Plenty of things that can be confirmed or denounced without question...

For me, because I'm more of a literal person, I tend to keep it as simple as possible. Just use the BB and Records. The videos are fine I think if the main purpose of them is the BB.

My reason for wanting to do it this way this is simple too...On the Events and People That Are Mentioned In The BB That Can Be Confirmed as Real or Not...Just state that by using Records.

If people who claim to have all this factual historical knowledge believe the book to be an allegory......that's fine, but Say That Like You Do in their books or internet posts and explain it. Don't pull out a section like on Trow and flat out lie about it. He used the same book as he claimed to be dissecting as the source for information??

I don't agree with it being an allegory at all, I think that's another way of saying 'This Crap Is So Flippin' Unbelievable, There's Got To Be A Message Here'. But...I respect your opinion on it and if I was ever in your area, I'd like nothing more than to buy you a drink and hear your thoughts and reasons for thinking that. I respect others views...yours, because I've read your posts and I think you are a smart and knowledgeable guy. I'm sure I'd learn a thing or two.

My point in this is...History is being lost everyday....The internet is the go to for information and because Jesse James is a Brand and JJ and Co were prominent in the CW era, almost all of everything being published or broadcast today is derived from the BB. We have guys on here quoting things as fact from JJ3 that I don't think they even realize that's where it comes from. At least I hope not. They got it from another copycat book or the internet.

Regardless of the reasons for the BB... Allegory or BS for profit, this thread has to stay just on the book and recognized historical records if it's to continue. If this thread ever finishes just using the BB and Records, then we can put out all the letters from Howk/JJ3, Schrader and others and try and see what the premise back then was about. There's a lot of early, first person documentation. Opinions then would be great.

This thread cannot go on opinions or theories at all or it will lead to arguments. There's already been shots, pokes and LOL's posted and ignored but that never lasts forever. People eventually respond back and It runs good people off from threads who just want to have a discussion on a topic. Look how many people are gone after the Missouri post.

In the beginning we agreed not to do that stuff and just use the records and BB. If we want to continue let's just keep it that way. BB videos are ok. Not everyone has the book but everyone can get record access. I don't mind posting from the book along with those who have it for those who don't.

Kace

Yeah, I agree this thread needs to follow its mission statement: examine the BB chapter by chapter, allegation by allegation. Stay on track (I warned you that your gatekeeping would be needed, ha ha). At the end, I suppose there'll be a tally sheet grading the book for "accuracy". However, IMO, Howk's character is irrelevant and shouldn't be a focus of the analysis. It doesn't matter to me who wrote the book - all that matters is the veracity of what's written (or lack of it).

Then we move on. My current working model is that there likely was/is such a covert political Organization, not yet adequately explained, and likely never to be. That said, IMO the BB is likely small potatoes in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

IMO the BB is likely small potatoes in the bigger scheme of things.

Could be, but when ye throw in all tha people who have perpeturated the BB falsehoods ye end up with one hell of a big tater salad.

I reckon by the time this thread gits done there won't be nuthin left but pickle relish.

IMHO, o'course.

 

[sdcfia]

Could be, but when ye throw in all tha people who have perpeturated the BB falsehoods ye end up with one hell of a big tater salad.

I reckon by the time this thread gits done there won't be nuthin left but pickle relish.

IMHO, o'course.

You know, when you boil down all that is sliced and diced on TNet, YouTube, books and magazines about this kind of stuff, it all begins to sound like tinnitus to me too.

 

[Kace]

Okay...Thanks Guys!! There will be a lot to discuss after we get done with the Book. I'll try and do better at herding and gate keeping SD! Staying With The Mission Statement Of This Thread Will Help A Lot...You're Right!

I really do want to hear everyone's opinions and thoughts after we are done. I agree with Kentuck that separating the wheat from the chaff will make it easier to get to the reasons for the BB.

Lets start again on the BB, Videos are fine If Relevant to the BB and Using Official Records.

No Potshots or Insults to Anyone.

Please No LOL's or Emoji's without any contribution/comment to the thread to go along with them.

Howk or Schrader's Character or Integrity Are Not To Be Referenced....Howk is to be referred to as JJ3 since that's his character in the BB. Just use the content of the BB for discussion. Nothing about the Authors.

If there's a question or statement about something someone has posted, Use The Quote Feature so we all know who it's to or what it's about.

Let's just make this interesting and maybe we will All learn something new.

For everyone from Missouri and others who were interested at the beginning of this thread and have gone MIA.. I Hope You Come Back and Participate. I know you would have great input and several of you guys have first person accounts that are sometimes not easily found in records without knowing where to look.

Thank You,
Kace

 

[Golden scense]

does anyone look Jesse James loot

 

[Truth]

I just bought and framed this picture

 

[Kace]

Glad you're here T!

Do you have the BB?

Kace

 

[Truth]

Glad you're here T!

Do you have the BB?

Kace

What BB?

Im fascinated by this guy

 

[Kace]

What BB?

Im fascinated by this guy

The book is actually called Jesse James Was One Of His Names also known as the Black Book. (BB)

It's very expensive to buy but we are going through it on this thread. No need to buy it. It's not completely factual.

Stay around, we are going in order of the book. If you have time start at the beginning of the thread to catch up. We are only on the 2nd chapter

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

True enough, but I don't reckon tha facts will git in the way of a good analyzin', might even hep out a bit.

When dealin with a tale like this'n, a feller has ta know which statements are true an which are false before he can figger out the why of things. It don't matter what bait yer usin or if yer holdin yer mouth right if there ain't no fish in the pond. I reckon that's what Kace is tryin ta do here by startin at tha beginnin of the BB an goin forward. When ye start bloviatin' about the theories, the why's, right off ye miss the details and git lost in a big load of suppositions. Ye can chew that gristle ferever an not git anywhere. I reckon it may seem repetitious and some of ye may feel like ye've been through all this before and yer jest wastin yer time by goin over it again. And to those folks, I reckon yer welcome ta go on yer merry way, cozy in yer own ideas, and good luck to ye. But then again, we all might learn somethin we missed if we jest withhold judgement and our own preconcieved idears, and review the information piece by piece like Kace is tryin ta present it.

I reckon there will be plenty of time ta chew on tha whys and toss around opinions after we figger out what's true and what ain't. Ye only get to tha meat by trimmin away the fat and gristle. I don't know bout the rest of ye, but I like ta make sure it's steak I'm bein served up and not tofu shaped like one.

LOL!

 

[Truth]

The book is actually called Jesse James Was One Of His Names also known as the Black Book. (BB)

It's very expensive to buy but we are going through it on this thread. No need to buy it. It's not completely factual.

Stay around, we are going in order of the book. If you have time start at the beginning of the thread to catch up. We are only on the 2nd chapter

Kace

I sure will Kace Thank you