Jesuit Treasure - Putting It All Together

[itzyoboyandrew]

Finally am making a thread of my latest treasure hunting adventures. First off if you dont believe in jesuit treasures or are here to degrade the theory then go to another thread. Also i WILL NOT post pictures of my stones/the clues... I dont want debating of people saying "thats not a clue" (poor haters...) .I know what i see is really there, i dont need to prove that to you all. With that being said lets begin!

- Clues -
* GA stone (shaped like the state of Georgia)
This stone is incidentally shaped like Georgia, well... GA in the early 1730s... Probably a general locator that the stash is in georgia.
I think the stash took place between 1733 - 1736. Why? jesuits were expelled in 1736, and in 1733 Georgia got the shape of this stone
meaning that the stone was made after 1733 and before 1736

* Wing stone (has a left wing in it)
This is where im guessing the stash is (you can see why in the map of my stones below).

* Paw print stone (has a 3 toed paw print in the bottom, also has an x with a circle in it.)
Most recently found stone.. Interestingly the paw print only has 3 toes, meaning it wasnt an actual paw print, it was a symbol.

* triangle stone (is shaped like a triangle, partial hole in bottom, 3 point crown on side)
Probably the most obvious of being a clue ill post a pic below of what it looks like.

* Oak Tree (super huge (estimated to be 300-400years old) oak true, probably a land marker)
Im guessing this a land mark of where the stash is, being that the tree is so big and old being old enough to be from the stash era


- Extra Clues -

* Superstition Moutain
See below note.

* A supposed jesuit fort in florida
See below note.

These extra clues are very important. Why? from superstition mountain if you go straigth east, and from the fort go straight north, overall, it will
intersect (proved by cordinates) at our area.

Having a hard time putting all this together mentally? Thought so. I made a map of all the points and clues put together and drew some significant lines, the results are extraordinary! The map shows triangles (alot of them) lots of geometric terms, and even a golden spiral!



If you notice anything else, let me know, tell me what to look for... But most of all! Please dont hate...

 

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[audigger53]

If they buried something next to the tree, it is now in the root ball of the tree. Good luck getting to it.

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

If they buried something next to the tree, it is now in the root ball of the tree. Good luck getting to it.

I dont think its by the tree, i think the tree was more of a marker, my guess would be by the point marked G on the 'map'. because alot of the triangles and geometry stuff on the map have G in them, or are in some way connected to G

 

[Backwoodsbob]

The G can be a number 8. The number for the king. It could be a reference to God. I see it in their work. If it's sideways maybe infinity. Could be the eyes of the owl. The Golden spiral ,is interesting. That right along with the math thing . Who knows? I want to know.

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[gollum]

What makes you think that ANY of what you have found is Jesuit? You say "A Jesuit Fort", but the Jesuits NEVER had any forts. There may have been Jesuits assigned to a particular Fort. What is the name of your Fort, and I will see if there is a Jesuit Connection with it.

Now, could it be Spanish? More likely Spanish than Jesuit. IF what you have found are authentic markers. Sorry, no way to tell without pics. Since you said you aren't going to post any, then I am done.

Best of Luck - Mike

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

What makes you think that ANY of what you have found is Jesuit? You say "A Jesuit Fort", but the Jesuits NEVER had any forts. There may have been Jesuits assigned to a particular Fort. What is the name of your Fort, and I will see if there is a Jesuit Connection with it.

Now, could it be Spanish? More likely Spanish than Jesuit. IF what you have found are authentic markers. Sorry, no way to tell without pics. Since you said you aren't going to post any, then I am done.

Best of Luck - Mike

Ill try to post pics later on... But even if you deem them "not clues" i still think that the chances of random stones lining up the way they have is pretty hard/next to impossible.

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

Also, i see your point on the jesuit, nothing (honestly) has pointed to jesuit... Spanish could be plausible being im near the coast and all.

 

[gollum]

You had better figure out which you are looking at (Spanish or Jesuit). Spanish Symbolism is somewhat fairly well known. I can figure most Spanish Monuments or Markers. The Jesuits would NEVER have used symbolism the Spanish would have understood. So, a heart will have two (or more) completely different meanings depending on whether it was Spanish or Jesuit.

Most of the knowledge of Jesuit Caches and how to find them in the New World was lost during the Jesuit Suppressions from 1759 (Portugal), to 1764 (France), to 1767 (Spain), 1773 (Naples and the Two Parmas and the Pope finally suppressed the Jesuit Order Worldwide). Many Jesuit Priests died during the long forced march across Mexico and the "slave ship" like travel back to Italy. More than likely, the Priests that had the knowledge died before passing it on.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Most of the knowledge of Jesuit Caches and how to find them in the New World was lost during the Jesuit Suppressions from 1759 (Portugal), to 1764 (France), to 1767 (Spain), 1773 (Naples and the Two Parmas and the Pope finally suppressed the Jesuit Order Worldwide). Many Jesuit Priests died during the long forced march across Mexico and the "slave ship" like travel back to Italy. More than likely, the Priests that had the knowledge died before passing it on.

Mike

Mike, that argument is just too convenient a means of rationalizing why the locations of the alleged hidden Arizona Jesuit caches are unidentified today. I don't buy it because it requires a major tactical failure on the part of the Jesuits, which is completely out of character for them.

Maybe because I just spent a month in parts of Italy, eastern Sicily and Malta examining the genius of Renaissance-era scientists, artists, explorers, military tacticians, religio, shipbuilders, architects, arms manufacturers, etc. This strengthened my belief that these people were clearly the capable equals of our best intellectuals today, even without electronic technology. Not to mention the Greeks, Phoenicians and Romans, but let's stick to the activities of the New World Jesuits, particularly in today's Arizona.

I can't believe for a minute that the Jesuits, arguably the elite of the elite, would accumulate these alleged precious metals caches, then be taken off-guard by the Expulsion and ultimately "lose" the secrets of where the alleged loot was hidden. This is absurd. For me, the more logical explanations of the tales include at least three options: 1) the caches, if they existed, have already been recovered by the Jesuits ; 2) the caches, if they existed, are still hidden and under the Jesuits' control; 3) there were no such major caches in Arizona. IMO, your time is better spent with these ideas than the "dog ate my homework" one.

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

Mike, that argument is just too convenient a means of rationalizing why the locations of the alleged hidden Arizona Jesuit caches are unidentified today. I don't buy it because it requires a major tactical failure on the part of the Jesuits, which is completely out of character for them.

Maybe because I just spent a month in parts of Italy, eastern Sicily and Malta examining the genius of Renaissance-era scientists, artists, explorers, military tacticians, religio, shipbuilders, architects, arms manufacturers, etc. This strengthened my belief that these people were clearly the capable equals of our best intellectuals today, even without electronic technology. Not to mention the Greeks, Phoenicians and Romans, but let's stick to the activities of the New World Jesuits, particularly in today's Arizona.

I can't believe for a minute that the Jesuits, arguably the elite of the elite, would accumulate these alleged precious metals caches, then be taken off-guard by the Expulsion and ultimately "lose" the secrets of where the alleged loot was hidden. This is absurd. For me, the more logical explanations of the tales include at least three options: 1) the caches, if they existed, have already been recovered by the Jesuits ; 2) the caches, if they existed, are still hidden and under the Jesuits' control; 3) there were no such major caches in Arizona. IMO, your time is better spent with these ideas than the "dog ate my homework" one.

"First off if you dont believe in jesuit treasures or are here to degrade the theory then go to another thread" - very first thing in this thread you read...

 

[cactusjumper]

"First off if you dont believe in jesuit treasures or are here to degrade the theory then go to another thread" - very first thing in this thread you read...

itzy,

Why handcuff the discussion? The best way to strengthen your theory, is to listen to, and intellectually dismiss, opposing ideas. IMHO, Steve made some pertinent points in his post. Why not find a way to negate them?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Does this look Jesuit

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[itzyoboyandrew]

itzy,

Why handcuff the discussion? The best way to strengthen your theory, is to listen to, and intellectually dismiss, opposing ideas. IMHO, Steve made some pertinent points in his post. Why not find a way to negate them?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

True, but its not that important, thing may be spanish anyways like gollum mentioned.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SDC
They wern't, they knew as soon as the order was signed by the king....But they didn't have enough time to remove the larger ones, such as the one at Tayopa which housed the where-with-all to finance the takeover of North America from Spain, for which they were expelled in 1767, not for mining as such.

For example how would you remove quickly and unoticed 1500 bars of Silver and 450 mule loads of Gold Bars, among other things?

No, they were still looking for this at the change of the century (1900's)

Every so often we hear of one being unearthed in the ruins of one of their missions,

I tend to afree with the Ariz coment, the Apache threat was too strong there, although ----.

 

[gollum]

Steve,

Its not absurd at all. Its not to me, because I have spent the last twenty or so years researching mostly Jesuit History in the New World. I know more than most regarding the Arrests and Suppression of the Order. I know because I have read the travel journals of every Jesuit Missionary Priest that have ever been published.

I will give a very brief rundown:

1759: Because Jesuits were found to be guilty of taking part in a plot to assassinate King Joseph I of Portugal, the Order was kicked out/suppressed from every Portuguese Colony on Earth.

1764: Because of Jesuit Money Handling Scandals, they were kicked out/suppressed from every French Colony on Earth.

1767: Several Jesuits were arrested handing out money to rioters during The Esquilache Riots of 1766 in Madrid. Charles III had been warned regarding Jesuit Exploits by his Minister Pombal, but ignored them until some were arrested handing out money to rioters. As a result of the 1766 riots, Charles III sent an envoy to Mexico to closely watch the comings and goings of the Jesuits. After a year, he reported back to the Crown, and the King sent letters back to every Governor and Military Commander in the New World. A sealed envelope inside another sealed envelope. The letter in the outer envelope said that the inner envelope was not to be opened until the night of 25 June 1767. Any sooner, and the person would face death. Based on what had already happened to the Jesuits in both Portugal and France, the Order had AT LEAST a two year lead to hide their wealth. I believe each Rectorate was responsible for hiding their own wealth (which is why we have Jesuit Treasure Stories from all over).

On the night of 25-26 June 1767, all the inner letters were read. They were instructed to go to EVERY Jesuit House, Colegio, Mission, and Visita. Gather all the Fathers, and read aloud the arrest proclamation from the King. The Fathers were ONLY allowed to take the clothes on their backs, their breviaries, and a copy of Sir Thomas A Kempis' "An Imitation of Christ". EVERY Priest was stripped and searched. EVERY House/Colegio/Mission/Visita was searched from top to bottom by Spanish Soldiers looking for the treasures everybody knew the Jesuits had. The ONLY way any Jesuit would have had to carry ANY kind of map or instruction, would be in his head. About 600 Jesuit Priests and laybrothers died on the forced marches across Mexico, and then the slave-like Atlantic Crossing.

1773: Pope Clement XIII issues "Dominus ac Redemptor" which officially suppresses the Jesuit Order Worldwide. As of this date, there are formally no more Jesuits.

1814: The Jesuit Order is reinstated as an Order of the Catholic Church. Jesuits start to repopulate all their old haunts. This date is important because of my next entry.

1891: In July of 1891, a construction company that had been hired by the Brazilian Government to demolish the Old Castle San Antonio in Rio de Janeiro. They broke into the cellars of the castle, and there found 12 iron clamped chests and several sacks that contained over seventy million GOLD SPANISH DOLLARS (70,000,000). There was also a lead box containing papers. One of the papers was a receipt given by Father Anton DeSartes for twenty million (20,000,000) in gold to be paid as a tribute to King Joseph I. Father Anton DeSartes just so happened to be the head of the Jesuit College at Rio de Janeiro.

Here is the sixty million dollar question:

The Jesuit Order was reinstated in the Catholic Church in 1814. This treasure wasn't found until 1891. That was seventy-seven (77) years the Jesuits had been back, and let seventy million in gold just lay there and get found by some construction workers. Why would the Jesuits just forget about that much gold? Simple answer is: THEY WOULDN'T! The only way the Jesuits let that gold get found would have been if they didn't have the knowledge or the opportunity to recover it. Seventy-seven years is a hell of an opportunity. To me, the only theory that fits is that there could not have been many Priests that carried that knowledge. Most of the ones that did, were likely part of the 600 or so that died in transit.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Steve,

Its not absurd at all. Its not to me, because I have spent the last twenty or so years researching mostly Jesuit History in the New World. I know more than most regarding the Arrests and Suppression of the Order. I know because I have read the travel journals of every Jesuit Missionary Priest that have ever been published.

I will give a very brief rundown:

1759: Because Jesuits were found to be guilty of taking part in a plot to assassinate King Joseph I of Portugal, the Order was kicked out/suppressed from every Portuguese Colony on Earth.

1764: Because of Jesuit Money Handling Scandals, they were kicked out/suppressed from every French Colony on Earth.

1767: Several Jesuits were arrested handing out money to rioters during The Esquilache Riots of 1766 in Madrid. Charles III had been warned regarding Jesuit Exploits by his Minister Pombal, but ignored them until some were arrested handing out money to rioters. As a result of the 1766 riots, Charles III sent an envoy to Mexico to closely watch the comings and goings of the Jesuits. After a year, he reported back to the Crown, and the King sent letters back to every Governor and Military Commander in the New World. A sealed envelope inside another sealed envelope. The letter in the outer envelope said that the inner envelope was not to be opened until the night of 25 June 1767. Any sooner, and the person would face death. Based on what had already happened to the Jesuits in both Portugal and France, the Order had AT LEAST a two year lead to hide their wealth. I believe each Rectorate was responsible for hiding their own wealth (which is why we have Jesuit Treasure Stories from all over).

On the night of 25-26 June 1767, all the inner letters were read. They were instructed to go to EVERY Jesuit House, Colegio, Mission, and Visita. Gather all the Fathers, and read aloud the arrest proclamation from the King. The Fathers were ONLY allowed to take the clothes on their backs, their breviaries, and a copy of Sir Thomas A Kempis' "An Imitation of Christ". EVERY Priest was stripped and searched. EVERY House/Colegio/Mission/Visita was searched from top to bottom by Spanish Soldiers looking for the treasures everybody knew the Jesuits had. The ONLY way any Jesuit would have had to carry ANY kind of map or instruction, would be in his head. About 600 Jesuit Priests and laybrothers died on the forced marches across Mexico, and then the slave-like Atlantic Crossing.

1773: Pope Clement XIII issues "Dominus ac Redemptor" which officially suppresses the Jesuit Order Worldwide. As of this date, there are formally no more Jesuits.

1814: The Jesuit Order is reinstated as an Order of the Catholic Church. Jesuits start to repopulate all their old haunts. This date is important because of my next entry.

1891: In July of 1891, a construction company that had been hired by the Brazilian Government to demolish the Old Castle San Antonio in Rio de Janeiro. They broke into the cellars of the castle, and there found 12 iron clamped chests and several sacks that contained over seventy million GOLD SPANISH DOLLARS (70,000,000). There was also a lead box containing papers. One of the papers was a receipt given by Father Anton DeSartes for twenty million (20,000,000) in gold to be paid as a tribute to King Joseph I. Father Anton DeSartes just so happened to be the head of the Jesuit College at Rio de Janeiro.

Here is the sixty million dollar question:

The Jesuit Order was reinstated in the Catholic Church in 1814. This treasure wasn't found until 1891. That was seventy-seven (77) years the Jesuits had been back, and let seventy million in gold just lay there and get found by some construction workers. Why would the Jesuits just forget about that much gold? Simple answer is: THEY WOULDN'T! The only way the Jesuits let that gold get found would have been if they didn't have the knowledge or the opportunity to recover it. Seventy-seven years is a hell of an opportunity. To me, the only theory that fits is that there could not have been many Priests that carried that knowledge. Most of the ones that did, were likely part of the 600 or so that died in transit.

Mike

Your Brazilian argument would support your premisses in a much stronger manner if you could produce better provenance for the event actually occurring. Frankly, I don't put much faith in sensational newspaper stories from the late 1800s any more than I do with today's news. Most people tend to believe things they read in newspapers, but if you could provide some court documentation relating to disposal of the hoard, confirmation of the existence of the people involved in its recovery, receipts for the inventory, photos of the artifacts, etc., I could venture putting a foot in the boat.

It's my speculation that if the Jesuits - arguably the smartest people in any room, exceptional planners and schemers, superb military strategists and well-informed and connected in world politics (at least by reputation) - had discovered the rich Arizona mines of legend, mined them under the nose of the Crown for years and accumulated the hoards they're credited with, then: 1) they would have devised a secure caching plan from the very beginning to protect the assets; 2) they would have coded the cache locations very early in the game; 3) they certainly would have transmitted the pertinent information to their superiors very early in the game, before any problems, anticipated or not, surfaced. This is what the smartest people in the room are trained to do. The evidence thus far indicates that my Post #9 offers the best explanation for the Jesuit treasure rumors. Tangible evidence to the contrary would change my beliefs.

That said, it's my current working model that the Jesuits may well have been involved in some modest silver mining during their watch in southern Arizona. They needed church bling and some trade money. Fair enough. From modest truths great exaggerations are born and continue to grow. If the Order had been privy to information regarding large gold caches in the American Southwest, it's my opinion that it had to do with caches that existed prior to their arrival. This, of course, is where things get interesting.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mike they are still looking for Tayopa, but only half heartedly, but looking. That Priest that was killed by fallng off the hill in the late 1800's or early 1900's Was a jesuit, it hadn't been found at that date.

 

[gollum]

Your Brazilian argument would support your premisses in a much stronger manner if you could produce better provenance for the event actually occurring. Frankly, I don't put much faith in sensational newspaper stories from the late 1800s any more than I do with today's news. Most people tend to believe things they read in newspapers, but if you could provide some court documentation relating to disposal of the hoard, confirmation of the existence of the people involved in its recovery, receipts for the inventory, photos of the artifacts, etc., I could venture putting a foot in the boat.

It's my speculation that if the Jesuits - arguably the smartest people in any room, exceptional planners and schemers, superb military strategists and well-informed and connected in world politics (at least by reputation) - had discovered the rich Arizona mines of legend, mined them under the nose of the Crown for years and accumulated the hoards they're credited with, then: 1) they would have devised a secure caching plan from the very beginning to protect the assets; 2) they would have coded the cache locations very early in the game; 3) they certainly would have transmitted the pertinent information to their superiors very early in the game, before any problems, anticipated or not, surfaced. This is what the smartest people in the room are trained to do. The evidence thus far indicates that my Post #9 offers the best explanation for the Jesuit treasure rumors. Tangible evidence to the contrary would change my beliefs.

That said, it's my current working model that the Jesuits may well have been involved in some modest silver mining during their watch in southern Arizona. They needed church bling and some trade money. Fair enough. From modest truths great exaggerations are born and continue to grow. If the Order had been privy to information regarding large gold caches in the American Southwest, it's my opinion that it had to do with caches that existed prior to their arrival. This, of course, is where things get interesting.

Well Steve,

If I didn't have anything other than "The Bay of Plenty Times" from Australia, I would never keep bringing it up! HAHAHA It is also in the 1892 Canada Law Review. Then, ten years later (1901), another construction crew partnered with the Brazilian Government to follow up on the treasure find made in 1891. If you recall from that original article found 12 iron clamped chests and sacks containing over 70,000,000 (seventy million) Spanish Gold Dollars. Also found was a box that listed not only the &0,000,000 but 2800 pounds of gold dust and 2,000 pound of gold ingots. Neither the gold dust nor the gold ingots were found in 1891. Because those two things were inventoried by the Jesuits and not found, a later effort to find those things (and more) came about:



If you can't read it, I can email you a larger version. There is also some good workout info for ya!

You should know me well enough by now, to know that I don't just pull things out of my culo! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Backwoodsbob]

It's to small to read. And I'm use to reading small things.

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[gollum]

Click on the picture, after that, when you hover your cursor over the pic, you will see a plus sign (+) next to the cursor. Click on THAT. It should enlarge it plenty enough to read. If you are still having trouble, let me know, and I will email you a copy.

Mike

I just did it, and it takes three clicks:

1. Click on the pic
2. Click on pic in new screen
3. NOW, you will see the + sign next to the cursor. Click on the pic one more time