Kidd-Palmer Treasure Maps SOLVED by Oliver D. Smith

[Treasure_Hunter]

Cryptic, stop accusing members of plagiarism unless you can produce clear documented evidence to moderators via pm.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Cryptic, stop accusing members of plagiarism unless you can produce clear documented evidence to moderators via pm.

I will send you a private message. Thanks.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Send it, but I am telling you now, what you have posted to date is not proof of plagiarism, and you are violating our rules.

Per our rules:

Help keep the atmosphere at TreasureNet fun! Sniping, name calling, denegration and other generally negative or abusive actions are grounds for moderation. In extreme cases grounds for banning!"

"Don't attack, provoke, insult, or deliberately offend anyone."

 

[Cryptid1990]

Send it, but I am telling you now, what you have posted to date is not proof of plagiarism, and you are violating our rules.

Per our rules:

Help keep the atmosphere at TreasureNet fun! Sniping, name calling, denegration and other generally negative or abusive actions are grounds for moderation. In extreme cases grounds for banning!"

"Don't attack, provoke, insult, or deliberately offend anyone."

Hi, I will in good faith per the rules edit/reword my other public comments, although I am compiling evidence. Do you know who I can privately message since your account does not seem to accept PMs?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hi, I will in good faith per the rules edit/reword my other public comments, although I am compiling evidence. Do you know who I can privately message since your account does not seem to accept PMs?

Try now, my account was hacked and some options were changed.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Try now, my account was hacked and some options were changed.

Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get it to work; can you can PM me and I can respond? Note that I reworded/edited all my posts to remove explicit plagiarism accusations (and removed the word plagiariser) so there should not be a further objection. Anyway, some context: I was the first person to solve the Kidd-Palmer maps by finding the template map the hoaxer used - Louis Tracy's (1903) Rainbow Island map which the hoaxer copied from. I was also the first person to digitise and upload the map to the internet (earlier in this thread). The map only appears in the UK edition (Rainbow Island) and is scarce. It was not digitised anywhere prior to me scanning it and it is difficult to find physical copies of the book. Note I was hesitant to make my finding public before I published an article (I am still writing) because I predicted someone would erroneously claim they made the discovery before me after reading my thread. I guess this was my mistake and two other posters by private message warned me against doing this. Nevertheless, I attached my real name to this thread and noted:

I have attached my name to this thread for credit or recognition - Oliver Smith / Oliver D. Smith. It took me several months to find Rainbow Island by searching digital archives, going to libraries, and buying books. Had I not spent so much time, I would have considered not attaching my name to solving the Kidd-Palmer maps.

Note: Anyone is free to quote any of my research but please credit me: Oliver D. Smith.

In none of CapnGeorge's posts on this forum prior to this thread did he mention Rainbow Island. Furthermore, in none of his books does he mention it, nor in any other comment he has written on the internet, prior to this thread. However, he now pops up claiming he first found the Rainbow Island map in relation to the Kidd-Palmer maps before me and years ago (note it was not online anywhere prior to me uploading it). What is worse, is his posts on this forum heavily contradict his claim he knew about the Rainbow Island map before reading this thread. For example, in his forum posts I quoted last year and as recent as March this year, he argued for a completely different source for 9.16 N on one of the Kidd-Palmer maps (see proof here). This is despite 9.16 N was copied from the Rainbow Island map. Simply put, his claim he knew about Rainbow Island before reading this thread was created is baloney. However, I guess "plagiarism" might not have been the correct word depending on definition so I removed it in all my other comments and will not repeat it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Someone not mention something they know about a legend is not proof of plagiarism.

Please post by our rules, stop accusing members of plagiarism without proof, nothing you have posted is proof of plagiarism, you can disagee with out accusing plagiarism.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Someone not mention something they know about a legend is not proof of plagiarism.

Please post by our rules, stop accusing members of plagiarism without proof, nothing you have posted is proof of plagiarism, you can disagee with out accusing plagiarism.

I will not use that specific word or repeat that accusation but I presented compelling evidence that CapnGeorge did not know of the Rainbow Island map until I created this thread and first uploaded the Rainbow Island map.

The Rainbow Island map contains the latitude 9.16 N:

In contrast, if you view CapnGeorge's posts (from last year and earlier this year) he was claiming a different source for the 9.16 N:

Wilkins was 'in' on it from the very beginning, before he published his 1935 CKSI book. He knew about Anson's secret expedition, which by the way, is why nobody knows about Cornelius Webb and the Unicorn, it was secret! Two little items just for starters: 1/ The rubbish Wilkins chart on the inside covers of his book CKSI, find 'Lat. dmd.' Nobody knew what that was until my decoding of the Shepherds Monument cipher, second line D---M, or Lat 19. - latitude of the Trinity group of atolls.(coded longitude 138 is in the first line) and 2/ The KEY chart, so back to the beginning, LAT 9.16, LONG 31.30. A simple key, put '1' in front giving Lat 19.16, Long 131.30, add the Cadiz meridian of 6.30 (a Spanish treasure, only Wilkins knew this) and you get 138. So there we have it again;19 and 138, the coordinates of the Pinaki group of atolls. A lot of other decodings give the same answer. Now, could you please explain to me and all our other listeners why this is all rubbish and you know the answer? Perhaps in the meantime, you would like to get somebody to review this!!

Instead he was claiming that Lat 9.16 came from his "decoding of the Shepherds Monument cipher" and "put 1 in front". Zero mention of Rainbow Island in any of his posts before my thread and when he was discussing his idea about where the latitude and longitude on the Kidd-Palmer maps: he argued for a completely different idea and source (the Shepherds Monument). All extremely far-fetched to say the least. The obvious and much more simple solution (that I actually first found) was the latitude was copied from the Rainbow Island map.

 

[Bocaj]

Another interesting overlay:
while having less commonality it is revealing that both the crossing path and most of all the marked spots are on the same place in both ("x" and 32/1). The comma kind of drawing stroke in the "Coral Island Map" is revealed as the Death Valley entry.

I always wondered why the the maps differ so much in their details. It becomes clear now. This is part of the story creation process. Those important spots and other details are moving around the island to fit the story in its different creation stages and were probably drawn by the author. The 32/1 is not where the mine is found in the final story. But the author seemly didn't mind to use the older sketch in the publication anyway.

Another are the directions - they fit (not so in the "Sarah Map"/RI map)

Ps. I can understand very much Cryptid's point and frankly someone coming out after somebodies else discovery claiming to have known all along without any evidence smells at least extremely bad. How you call something like that is a juridical matter but challenging the claim is important because potentially as more time passes as easier it is to forge the evidence needed to support such a claim (in case of ill intention that is). The buyout of the editions from the Internet's second hand stores confirms his worries.

 

[Cryptid1990]

I always wondered why the the maps differ so much in their details. It becomes clear now. This is part of the story creation process. Those important spots and other details are moving around the island to fit the story in its different creation stages and were probably drawn by the author. The 32/1 is not where the mine is found in the final story. But the author seemly didn't mind to use the older sketch in the publication anyway.

Good observation.

Ps. I can understand very much Cryptid's point and frankly someone coming out after somebodies else discovery claiming to have known all along without any evidence smells at least extremely bad. How you call something like that is a juridical matter but challenging the claim is important because potentially as more time passes as easier it is to forge the evidence needed to support such a claim (in case of ill intention that is). The buyout of the editions from the Internet's second hand stores confirms his worries.

It is bizarre since CapnGeorge spent over 6 months criticising my research (before I made this thread). I tried to repeatedly explain to him that the solution to the Kidd-Palmer maps is very likely a fictional map and that he was on the wrong track. But he rejected and criticised whenever I mentioned the solution is a fictional map for his own far-fetched ideas (such as his "decoding of the Shepherds Monument cipher"). Yet suddenly now he expects people to believe he first found the Rainbow Island map before me and worked out the hoaxer based the Kidd-Palmer maps on Rainbow Island (without a shred of evidence and many of his own forum posts contradict this [see quotes above]).

 

[Cryptid1990]

More evidence CapnGeorge did not know of Rainbow Island before reading my thread.

The following is a comment he made in November 2025:

Something else all of you are avoiding - without any explanation from any of you. on nearly all the maps penned by Wilkins (Yes Wilkins) the following abound; Beach of white coral and sand/Coralle Reefs/Lagoons/Coco palms, on the Palmer charts-Lagoon/reefs/sand and coral. Take the wool off your eyes and recognise he is telling you something. Where do these features show themselves, - on atolls in the South Pacific Ocean.

As you can clearly see, he never knew that the lagoon/reefs/sand and coral on the Kidd-Palmer maps were copied from Tracy's map of Rainbow Island (1903) which I first showed. Instead he incorrectly was arguing these island features relate to the South Pacific Ocean. The fictional island in the Tracy's Rainbow Island (aka Wings of the Morning) is not located in the South Pacific Ocean but the South China Sea.

 

[Bocaj]

More evidence CapnGeorge did not know of Rainbow Island before reading my thread.

The following is a comment he made in November 2025:

As you can clearly see, he never knew that the lagoon/reefs/sand and coral on the Kidd-Palmer maps were copied from Tracy's map of Rainbow Island (1903) which I first showed. Instead he incorrectly was arguing these island features relate to the South Pacific Ocean. The fictional island in the Tracy's Rainbow Island (aka Wings of the Morning) is not located in the South Pacific Ocean but the South China Sea.

If he is following the idea that Rainbow Island is the original and everything else a copy. As I tried to warn before this is not 100% proven (probable yes) It can still be argued that there was another original and Tracy took his map from it. I am not saying that was the case but the argument can be made and should be answered.

Another point he is continuously making (without presenting prove) is that Wilkins was the hoaxer. I do not think so but I do have difficulties explaining the "Death Valley" which is not shown anywhere in the maps. How did he know other then from reading "Rainbow Island"? Some question I think that need to be answered.

 

[Cryptid1990]

If he is following the idea that Rainbow Island is the original and everything else a copy. As I tried to warn before this is not 100% proven (probable yes) It can still be argued that there was another original and Tracy took his map from it. I am not saying that was the case but the argument can be made and should be answered.

Another point he is continuously making (without presenting prove) is that Wilkins was the hoaxer. I do not think so but I do have difficulties explaining the "Death Valley" which is not shown anywhere in the maps. How did he know other then from reading "Rainbow Island"? Some question I think that need to be answered.

Based on a private message he sent me, he is now claiming Wilkins gave Tracy "clues" to put on the RI map and stated "Wilkins worked in Fleet Street and obviously [with Tracy] shared ideas and info for their books". This makes no sense since Wilkins and Tracy never collaborated or corresponded, at least there is a total absence of evidence and strong reasons for doubting this: there was a generational gap between Tracy and Wilkins. By the time Wilkins started his journalism career in the 1920s, Tracy was an elderly-ish author of novels, and he died in 1928. In fact, Wilkins did not publish his first book on treasure hunting until a year after Tracy died (Hunting Hidden Treasures, 1929). Wilkins never once mentioned Louis Tracy in any of his books and did not reference one of his books in any of his bibliographies.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Cryptic end the attack, move on with the topic or thread will be locked.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Cryptic end the attack, move on with the topic or thread will be locked.

I've now put CapnGeorge on my 'ignore' and won't mention him again. I agree, the thread got derailed and I will now stick on topic.

 

[Bocaj]

Based on a private message he sent me, he is now claiming Wilkins gave Tracy "clues" to put on the RI map and stated "Wilkins worked in Fleet Street and obviously [with Tracy] shared ideas and info for their books". This makes no sense since Wilkins and Tracy never collaborated or corresponded, at least there is a total absence of evidence and strong reasons for doubting this: there was a generational gap between Tracy and Wilkins. By the time Wilkins started his journalism career in the 1920s, Tracy was an elderly-ish author of novels, and he died in 1928. In fact, Wilkins did not publish his first book on treasure hunting until a year after Tracy died (Hunting Hidden Treasures, 1929). Wilkins never once mentioned Louis Tracy in any of his books and did not reference one of his books in any of his bibliographies.

As I wrote before I do not think that Wilkins or anyone else connected to Palmer did create the maps (only created copies of the sketches) but Wilkins must have known the Death Valley from somewhere else. It is something that even before your discovery bothered me and I never ignore things that do not fit my ideas. In contrary those kind of contradictions open new discoveries.

There is still the questions how the maps ended up in Cutler's furniture. As I said I think he didn't copy it from the book but got the unpublished sketches from someone (Shiel or Tracy selling him their old furniture?). Probably didn't even know the book. It is just wild guessing but so is that Cutler created the maps using the book's drawing as basis. The re-use idea of the sketches is much simpler and explains the changing details of the maps. The only link missing is to connect Tracy/Shiel with Cutler.

 

[Cryptid1990]

As I wrote before I do not think that Wilkins or anyone else connected to Palmer did create the maps (only created copies of the sketches) but Wilkins must have known the Death Valley from somewhere else. It is something that even before your discovery bothered me and I never ignore things that do not fit my ideas. In contrary those kind of contradictions open new discoveries.

The answer will likely be found in the Wilkins-Palmer files or one of Wilkins' articles (see one of Gjb's relevant comments here). The private correspondence should be put in the public domain. There is a discussion of 'Death Valley' in Wilkins' (1942) article in The Trident I uploaded (see here) and I have been trying to track down Wilkins' final articles or letters on the Kidd-Palmer maps (1951-1960) and these could shed light on 'Death Valley'. They exist but have never been uploaded or quoted online. A possible explanation is Wilkins saw the skull and bones next to the area on the Skeleton Island Map, where there are parallel lines and hachures that indicate elevation (= 'Death Valley'?).

There is still the questions how the maps ended up in Cutler's furniture. As I said I think he didn't copy it from the book but got the unpublished sketches from someone (Shiel or Tracy selling him their old furniture?). Probably didn't even know the book. It is just wild guessing but so is that Cutler created the maps using the book's drawing as basis. The re-use idea of the sketches is much simpler and explains the changing details of the maps. The only link missing is to connect Tracy/Shiel with Cutler.

I will do a long post covering this in the next few days since I have information to share.

 

[Bocaj]

The answer will likely be found in the Wilkins-Palmer files or one of Wilkins' articles (see one of Gjb's relevant comments here). The private correspondence should be put in the public domain. There is a discussion of 'Death Valley' in Wilkins' (1942) article in The Trident I uploaded (see here) and I have been trying to track down Wilkins' final articles or letters on the Kidd-Palmer maps (1951-1960) and these could shed light on 'Death Valley'. They exist but have never been uploaded or quoted online. A possible explanation is Wilkins saw the skull and bones next to the area on the Skeleton Island Map, where there are parallel lines and hachures that indicate elevation (= 'Death Valley'?).

View attachment 2257278


I will do a long post covering this in the next few days since I have information to share.

If you see a skeleton in that scribble it must be a very fancy one! Less I see any indication of a valley. Also Wilkins's postcard refers to the Coral Island Map, the Key wasn't discovered yet (correct me if I am wrong) and there is no indication of a "Death Valley" on the Coral map and only as mentioned a prolonged stroke that could indicate a small valley much further north.
Interestingly those round spots of the Key and RI maps not only moved but turned. Basically there is no valley and no center cliffs drawn in the Coral Map. I guess it was some very early sketch. Wilkins wrote:

I changed the outline of the shores of the coral and turtle island, but gave the hills with caches, and a 'Death Valley,' actually in Kidd's charts.

It makes me wonder if he was that truthful or he did know about RI and kept it to himself.

 

[Cryptid1990]

A small circular skull face is somewhat clearer if you enhance the map. There are two small dots in the circle (eye sockets). However, you are right this might be scribble and pareidolia so I am mistaken. Wilkins first visited Palmer in Summer 1932. The Skeleton Map was not then in the possession of Hubert Palmer, however, based on what is said in the Wilkins-Palmer files, Wilkins met Palmer on more than one occasion. Furthermore, in Wilkins' (1935) book, he strongly implies he saw the Skeleton Map because he says: "We looked!" and "Rejoice with me! shouted my collector friend [Palmer]". Palmer acquired the Skeleton Map in early 1933, so Wilkins must have visited Palmer that year and been shown the map (after his first visit the previous year). There is no date on the postcard, so Wilkins could have simply confused the Coral Island Map with the Skeleton Map (the latter certainly has a valley but I concede the skull is ambiguous and could be scribbles). If the postcard had been dated pre-1933, this would indeed be difficult to explain. You can find a reproduction of the postcard in Geoff Bath's The Oak Island Concealment (2023, p. 12).

 

[Bocaj]

A small circular skull face is somewhat clearer if you enhance the map. There are two small dots in the circle (eye sockets). However, you are right this might be scribble and pareidolia so I am mistaken. Wilkins first visited Palmer in Summer 1932. The Skeleton Map was not then in the possession of Hubert Palmer, however, based on what is said in the Wilkins-Palmer files, Wilkins met Palmer on more than one occasion. Furthermore, in Wilkins' (1935) book, he strongly implies he saw the Skeleton Map because he says: "We looked!" and "Rejoice with me! shouted my collector friend [Palmer]". Palmer acquired the Skeleton Map in early 1933, so Wilkins must have visited Palmer that year and been shown the map (after his first visit the previous year). There is no date on the postcard, so Wilkins could have simply confused the Coral Island Map with the Skeleton Map (the latter certainly has a valley but I concede the skull is ambiguous and could be scribbles). If the postcard had been dated pre-1933, this would indeed be difficult to explain. You can find a reproduction of the postcard in Geoff Bath's The Oak Island Concealment (2023, p. 12).

If that is a skull it is of an alien or an Atlantian. Maybe Yoda's. Well I think its a clear case of pareidolia. The "Face" on Mars has more similarities with a skull than this one. And there is no indication of a valley (some strokes on both sides or even just one).
It is suspicious.

What the above could represent is a description of the RI's Death Valley. I think I remember something about a circle - have to read that part again.

Also the position of the 32/1 confirms my idea that the Palmer maps are earlier sketches were the author still positions the other entry to the goldmine in the lower middle of the island. I think later he moved the mine and the cave into that inner cliff he created as a better base for the final confrontation. I can see him over and over redrawing the island in the end with many sketches laying around. They had now value to him other than memories. To good to throw away - just right to be stuffed into some old furniture.