What happened to the Kidd-Palmer treasure maps?

[gjb]

@Cryptid, since you obviously can't be polite, you find fault with everything, and you insist that you have to be right all the time, there's really no point or pleasure in trying to debate anything with you. You clearly want to be the sole voice on this forum so I for one am content to let you have your way.

 

[Cryptid1990]

I assume that you know who George’s colleague in Australia is? I sent the colleague a copy of the postcard map and I assume that he copied it to George. The card is still in my possession. The text reads:

“Admiral Sir Reginald Hall. R.N. (former Chief of Naval Intelligence) wanted to take this chart, overleaf, to the Admiralty when he saw it. (Palmer refused)”

Wilkins revised downwards the year when Palmer obtained the Hardy Chest; in his 1942 article in The Trident he stated "Sir Reginald Hall saw it in 1925". I am trying to put together snippets of the article from Google Books. See page 679. In light of the letter Palmer sent Driscoll (that Driscoll quoted and paraphrased in his 1930 article), the downwards revision appears to be accurate and the chest was acquired by Palmer between 1925 and 1927, not 1929 or 1930 as elsewhere reported.

Missing text from top right: "Some of this collection are aboard the famous [...] Portsmouth [...]. Oral traditions are not so silent about Captain Kidd in lonely parts of Maine and Nova Scotia where I stayed in 1938-9."

Missing text from top right: "[stayed in 1938-9]. Whatever he after-wards became, they say he was a bloody pirate"

Missing snippet [middle text column]:

"owned a farm: Pentland Farm, of Leith. She also sold a handsome ring of peculiarly red gold, inset in the bezel of which is an excellent miniature of a man in a full-bottomed wig and cavalier costume - Kidd, in the year 1675. Mr. Palmer comes of a British naval family, one of his relatives having been a well-known admiral. For many years past he has collected authentic relics of eighteenth century men and women pirates, as well as buccaneer pistols and pikes of an earlier day. His house is a veritable pirate museum, and it takes him three hours to set out his collection on his long billiard table."

Missing snippet [left text column]:

"[Mary escritoire, saw a runner, or rod], the desk carved with the words 'Capn. Kidd. Adventure Galley, 1669'. The runner was sealed with some very old mottled wax. Inside, he found a tightly rolled piece of parchment, like old like old sugar-packing paper in appearance, bearing the skeleton outline of the Far Eastern island, with the name of the sea. It, too, is dated 1669, and initialled W. K. What, up to date, is the last piece in the puzzle, came to light in 1940, when Palmer bought from the family of a deceased Sussex barrister an heirloom in the shape of an old mirror. It does not appear that the barrister or his ancestors ever examined this mirror. Palmer found (as he wrote me): "An arrow on the top of the frame of the looking-glass, pointing upwards from a Death's Head and crossbones, inlaid with small diamonds and the initials 'W. K.' On the back of the mirror another arrow pointed downwards to a slight bulge in the vellum backing. The bulge, slit open, revealed, first, a wooden fragment scored with perforated letters reading 'Island.' Behind the wood was a bit of screwed-up parchment, looking [like a vellum, duodecimo book]."

Missing snippet [middle text column]:

"[I compromised by giving a chart with all the details that Mr. Palmer] permitted. I changed the outline of the shores of the coral and turtle island, but gave the hills with caches, and a 'Death Valley,' actually in Kidd's charts. I also inverted the compass points, placing north where south usually is. Then, to drive home the warning of the phony region of this mysterious (Mr. Palmer and I) still await the missing piece of this historic jigsaw-nature of my chart, so far as pirates and claim-jumpers were and are concerned, I wrote in my book: Precise clues and locations are not and cannot be given in this book [...]" (note: I cannot find the remaining sentence that ends this text column).

Missing text from top right to bottom:

[Reference to a Japanese newspaper: "Pacific, Tokyo, Feb. 5."]

"newspaper statements, are conducting a search for the buried treasure of the notorious British buccaneer, Captain Wm. Kidd Gold valued at 100 million dollars, with a large quantity of precious stones, is said to be hidden in a volcanic island between Formosa and Kyushu. 'Death Valley' is given as the name of the locality . According to the papers, the information has been supplied by a private detective in Connecticut, U.S.A. He prefers to remain anonymous. I am at a loss to know where the ronin-spies had this bit about the diamonds and the millions! We (Mr. Palmer and I) [...] merely spy [...] (note: a few words are missing from this sentence). My letter, warning the U.S. Consul - General in Yokohama of a possible ramp of some international syndicate out to rob the gullible investing public as it seemed never reached the Consul. I suspect the Japanese postal police intercepted it; and if the American (?) agent who sold this yellow pup to the Nipponese secret service had his hide, later on, lambasted well, that, is not more than is surely coming to Nippon herself, when John Bull and Uncle Sam really get going in the North Pacific."

 

[gjb]

Wilkins revised downwards the year when Palmer obtained the Hardy Chest; in his 1942 article in The Trident he stated "Sir Reginald Hall saw it in 1925". I am trying to put together snippets of the article from Google Books. See page 679. In light of the letter Palmer sent Driscoll (that Driscoll quoted and paraphrased in his 1930 article), the downwards revision appears to be accurate and the chest was acquired by Palmer between 1925 and 1927, not 1929 or 1930 as elsewhere reported.

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That's a turn-up! I suppose it's possible. Hall was MP for Eastbourne between 1925 and 1929 and Palmer suggests that they met at the Conservative Club, though that still leaves 1927 as a possibility. It's a shame the postcard can't narrow it down further.

While you don't believe this account, Wilkins' associate who told him about the maps had apparently been called in for consultation in the late 1920s. It's been my thought that he could have been the reason for all this activity: I think I know who he was and I've been trying for years to determine whether he might have known Cutler. By Wilkins' own account, this associate was a somewhat shady character. Furthermore, my contact from the group holding the maps indicated that there had been activity to mount an expedition to find the treasure (to Chile / Juan Fernandez) in the mid-1920s when he was a little boy. To my mind, this has all got to be related, but I just can't get the link to Cutler!

As an afterthought, was Cutler active in Eastbourne in 1925? I think I may have known once, from my research, but I can't find any mention in my notes of when he opened up.

Further edit: I found mention in my book that Cutler took over his shop in 1924. This was filed in my notes under 'Eastbourne', not 'Cutler'.

 

[Cryptid1990]

That's a turn-up! I suppose it's possible. Hall was MP for Eastbourne between 1925 and 1929 and Palmer suggests that they met at the Conservative Club, though that still leaves 1927 as a possibility. It's a shame the postcard can't narrow it down further.

While you don't believe this account, Wilkins' associate who told him about the maps had apparently been called in for consultation in the late 1920s. It's been my thought that he could have been the reason for all this activity: I think I know who he was and I've been trying for years to determine whether he might have known Cutler. By Wilkins' own account, this associate was a somewhat shady character. Furthermore, my contact from the group holding the maps indicated that there had been activity to mount an expedition to find the treasure (to Chile / Juan Fernandez) in the mid-1920s when he was a little boy. To my mind, this has all got to be related, but I just can't get the link to Cutler!

As an afterthought, was Cutler active in Eastbourne in 1925? I think I may have known once, from my research, but I can't find any mention in my notes of when he opened up.

Further edit: I found mention in my book that Cutler took over his shop in 1924. This was filed in my notes under 'Eastbourne', not 'Cutler'.

I've now put more snippets together including the whole of page 679. I will try to find more snippets of text. Are you in possession of a letter or document by Wilkins in which he explicitly states the instructions on his Mar Del and/or Plum Island/Flood maps he copied from another source (rather than he made them up [as he states in his articles])? Unless you can quote such a document this is why people, like myself, are going to remain very sceptical since it contradicts what he repeatedly said in his articles and what he told Gilbert Hedden when he met him.

Edit: page 678 mostly complete (the missing text is of little importance and relates to Captain Kidd's background).

 

[gjb]

I've now put more snippets together including the whole of page 679. I will try to find more snippets of text. Are you in possession of a letter or document by Wilkins in which he explicitly states the instructions on his Mar Del and/or Plum Island/Flood maps he copied from another source (rather than he made them up [as he states in his articles])? Unless you can quote such a document this is why people, like myself, are going to remain very sceptical since it contradicts what he repeatedly said in his articles and what he told Gilbert Hedden when he met him.

The specific letter to Gordon, in which Harold observes, “the sourced instructions, as you are aware”, I don’t have any more. However, I believe I may still have one of Harold’s written complaints that people had been using the instructions on his (Mar Del) map that he had gone to such great lengths to obtain. In contrast, in other letters he simply complains about people using the instructions on, “my copyright map,” which isn’t at all specific.

My contention has always been, and still is, that any conscientious researcher would quite naturally consider whether the instructions might be genuine even should this run contrary to the author’s written word. I imagine that’s because I was taught this when studying history in my freshman year at university.

It was the consequences of my actually doing this that led me to consider that maybe Hedden had misunderstood the Mar Del map instructions. It was only when more and more things began to click that I felt the need to search for Wilkins’ files, that is, primary source material, in order to check out what I’d begun to suspect. Isn’t this exactly how historical research should operate? In fact, why would anyone not question what Wilkins was saying?

 

[Cryptid1990]

I posted >90% of the article (Wilkins, 1942). The missing text I cannot find is of little importance since it is mostly about the background of Captain Kidd (p. 678). Overall, I am rather disappointed. The article is only 3 pages: 278, 279, 280. However, Wilkins provides some new information not previously published:

1. Palmer descended from a naval family and "one of his relatives having been a well-known admiral" (who?).
2. Reginald Hall saw the Hardy Chest in 1925.
3. Palmer acquired the Yunnan Parchment in 1940 (I think Wilkins again mentioned this in his 1947 booklet).
4. Palmer bought the Morgan Chest in 1930, not 1932, which he stated in his 1940 article [American Weekly]. The 1930 date makes more sense since he wrote in his 1935 book that Dan Morgan sold the chest to Arthur Hill Cutler in 1929.
5. Palmer and Wilkins were doubtful Kidd's treasure was found on an island in the East China Sea near Japan as was reported in Japanese newspapers. Wilkins described the island as a "volcanic island between Formosa and Kyushu." I have tried to find these newspapers. I think they are likely what is referred to in the article "Takarajima: A Treasured Island" (Hayward and Kuwahara, 2014). The island mentioned as the treasure place in these newspapers is Takarajima ("Treasure Island")—the southernmost inhabited island of the Tokara archipelago.

Hayward and Kuwahara, 2014:

Articles reporting the main points of Wilkins’ article and reproducing its map appeared in the Tokyo Nichi-Nichii and Yomiyiuri newspapers in February 1937. (While few main island Japanese would have had any perception of a resemblance between the island depicted and that of remote, southerly Takarajima; the Yomiyuri made the connection explicit, proclaiming, “Treasure Island, it’s in Japan!” (NB note that despite the different alignment of the compass roses in the two maps below, the islands represented do have distinct similarities) (Fig. 6).

海賊キャプテン・キッドの財宝５

Hayward and Kuwahara, 2014:

Claims for Takarajima as the location for Kidd’s buried treasure have subsequently been circulated in English language publications and websites, such as Fanthorpe and Fanthorpe (2009, p. 181). While various attempts have been made to locate the treasure, none has been found. This is unsurprising. The identification of Takarajima as the location of Kidd’s horde is highly problematic since – unless historical records have been lost or were originally fabricated – Kidd never ventured into the South China Seas.

Coincidentally, I know the co-author of this article, Philip Hayward. I published an article in the journal Shima a decade ago which he is the editor of. Similar dubious/hoax stories about Kidd's treasure in Japanese newspapers were printed again in 1952:

Japanese treasure-hunters had found the treasure of the British pirate, Captain William Kidd. The newspaper said the treasure was hidden in a cave on tiny uninhabited Yokoate Island near Amanio Shima ; northernmost island of the Ryukyu group.

Mystery pirate treasure

Hola Amigos What can I say? The following legend or story is just a unsolvable mystery. I have no idea that these events actually happened or was just hoax story created in the early 1950's? Or had some basis in some truth regardless of the baseless claims of a treasure being found on a cave...

www.treasurenet.com

 

[gjb]

I posted >90% of the article (Wilkins, 1942). The missing text I cannot find is of little importance since it is mostly about the background of Captain Kidd (p. 678). Overall, I am rather disappointed. The article is only 3 pages: 278, 279, 280. However, Wilkins provides some new information not previously published:

1. Palmer descended from a naval family and "one of his relatives having been a well-known admiral" (who?).
2. Reginald Hall saw the Hardy Chest in 1925.
3. Palmer acquired the Yunnan Parchment in 1940 (I think Wilkins again mentioned this in his 1947 booklet).
4. Palmer bought the Morgan Chest in 1930, not 1932, which he stated in his 1940 article [American Weekly]. The 1930 date makes more sense since he wrote in his 1935 book that Dan Morgan sold the chest to Arthur Hill Cutler in 1929.
5. Palmer and Wilkins were doubtful Kidd's treasure was found on an island in the East China Sea near Japan as was reported in Japanese newspapers. Wilkins described the island as a "volcanic island between Formosa and Kyushu." I have tried to find these newspapers. I think they are likely what is referred to in the article "Takarajima: A Treasured Island" (Hayward and Kuwahara, 2014). The island mentioned as the treasure place in these newspapers is Takarajima ("Treasure Island")—the southernmost inhabited island of the Tokara archipelago.

Interesting, a good find! I had wondered if the Morgan chest had been bought earlier than reported. I was curious why there was a gap of three years (1929-1932) between the sale of the first two items, though I imagined that two teasers in one year might have been to encourage the purchase of the 'big one' in February 1933 (though three items in less than 12 months did seem odd.) However, the time lapse then got even bigger (1927-1932) and then bigger still (1925-32).

I did wonder if Palmer might actually have been hit by the Depression, despite his modest wealth, enough to prevent his buying, and whether Cutler’s 'crew' (I suspect he was not alone) might actually have been preparing to make another hit around 1929 when the crisis struck and disrupted their plans. So, a revised date for the Morgan chest doesn't surprise me.

However, it just seems to me that 1927 might be a more reasonable year than 1925 for the first purchase. It’s close enough to the crash in 1929 when things became unstable, and the purchases of the next two items are close enough to the slight recovery after 1931 (following the gold standard crisis) to be understandable. I just feel that it's a better spread (1927, 30, 32, 33).

Palmer's letters do, indeed, confirm the purchase of the Yunnan parchment in 1940. I think I published his excited letter to Wilkins here a while back. There is a follow-up letter responding to some questions Wilkins had.

Wilkins also had a lot to say about the Japanese episode in various letters and typescripts, some of it quite amusing. I'll try to dig it out, it may be useful to see his perspective on things. In any event, it's all very Wilkins!

 

[gjb]

I was doing some family genealogical research and, in a quiet spell at the Somerset House records, decided I’d look for any potential records of Cutler. My apologies if someone has already done this.

The only Arthur Hill Cutler I could find was born at Lewisham (1d 295) reported in March quarter 1868.

I then trawled through deaths up to 1960 and found just one possibility. This is Arthur C H Cutler who died at Eastbourne (5d 296) reported in March quarter 1958 aged 89.

This would put his birth at about 1869. However, if he was born early 1868 and died late 1957 (say late December, but reported January) then he would be 89.

Sadly, I’m far too mean to pay for copies of the certificates, but do feel free to fight amongst yourselves!

I found only one potential marriage but this is simply Arthur H Cutler at Henley (3a 2170) in September quarter 1917 making him an unlikely 48. I tend to discount this, but there are far too many Arthur Cutler’s to be tracking him down (if he even married).

I had checked for Pamela Hardy decades ago but drew a blank. There are also far too many possibilities. I discovered records are kept of deaths reported as having occurred abroad, but they’re notoriously incomplete. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I could find no records at all for a Pamela Hardy (birth, marriage, death) in the Eastbourne area either at Somerset House or in the local newspapers.

 

[Cryptid1990]

I was doing some family genealogical research and, in a quiet spell at the Somerset House records, decided I’d look for any potential records of Cutler. My apologies if someone has already done this.

The only Arthur Hill Cutler I could find was born at Lewisham (1d 295) reported in March quarter 1868.

I then trawled through deaths up to 1960 and found just one possibility. This is Arthur C H Cutler who died at Eastbourne (5d 296) reported in March quarter 1958 aged 89.

This would put his birth at about 1869. However, if he was born early 1868 and died late 1957 (say late December, but reported January) then he would be 89.

Sadly, I’m far too mean to pay for copies of the certificates, but do feel free to fight amongst yourselves!

I found only one potential marriage but this is simply Arthur H Cutler at Henley (3a 2170) in September quarter 1917 making him an unlikely 48. I tend to discount this, but there are far too many Arthur Cutler’s to be tracking him down (if he even married).

I had checked for Pamela Hardy decades ago but drew a blank. There are also far too many possibilities. I discovered records are kept of deaths reported as having occurred abroad, but they’re notoriously incomplete. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I could find no records at all for a Pamela Hardy (birth, marriage, death) in the Eastbourne area either at Somerset House or in the local newspapers.

Some information was posted by Crow/myself in the other thread. His full name was Arthur Crichton Hill-Cutler.

He died 22 January 1958.

- The Daily Telegraph (24 January 1958)

Could not find any evidence he was the rank of a major searching war records but he was a second lieutenant:

UK, WWI, British Army Medal Roll Index Cards, 1914-1920.

His address was a one bedroom flat in South Street in Eastbourne (it is on one of these cards [see link above]): 15, Greystone buildings, South Street. Crow also found this mentioned in a census record for the year 1910:

He lived close to his antique shop [Ye Oak Room] (Values of Antiques John W. Caldicott [1929]):

Crow also found the following: 1939 England and Wales Register for Arthur Hill-Cutler (he occupation was "antique dealer") -

 

[Cryptid1990]

BREAKING NEWS

As I said in the other thread -

I've 100% solved the Kidd-Palmer maps. I am just wondering what to do. If I made a new thread or posted the proof in my own thread, I do not think I would get credit. I will probably have to publish an article. I am in a state of shock myself. I solved it only a few minutes ago by finding the map the Kidd-Palmer maps are based on. I knew I was on the right track from comments I earlier posted on this forum and now managed to find the original map the Kidd-Palmer maps were based (there is no doubt). I will decide what to do over next few days...

I will decide whether to reveal everything on this forum in next few days or wait to publish the article.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Maybe of interest to you all regarding the above and the (Failed)Captain Studdard expedition. He sent the 'parchment' to the Home Office forensic Science laboratory in August 1951. I have the report, the parchment in question was the first chart found in the Bureau. They of course did a thorough examination - ink/paper/style etc. It is only necessary for me to part quote the conclusion; ...The only conclusion which is justified on the evidence is that the initials 'W.K' were not signed by Captain Kidd and that other evidence points to the map being a comparatively recent production on what might very well be an old sheet of parchment' Unquote. It is what I have been telling you all for years - THE MAPS ARE FAKE! Does anybody want to argue with the Home Office?
And why all the fuss about what happened to the charts? It is irrelevant! Mrs Dick had them photographed before they were sold - whenever that was - or whoever to, it doesn't matter! I have the negatives for posterity. Wilkins created the charts, including the two in his 'Skeleton Island' book, but he was cunning and crafty, he inserted clues in them to the ultimate treasure - nothing to do with Kidd, - but you had to know about this treasure and therefore know what to look for.

CaptGeorge, I don't know if you are referring to the China Sea map and The Deadman Island map, if you are but sorry they were definitely drawn by Captain William Kidd and/or John Ware. If you know how to read them both maps will show you where to start.
The maps that were drawn with the same basic cross compass set diagonally in the lower left corner are almost certainly drawn by Kidd or Ware, the X marks the spot mean nothing like the different shapes drawn of the islands.
Even the miners would not know that X spot for certain on the surface above the treasure, they would only have a basic idea of that location but that was of no interest to them at all.
The great accumulated treasure was never ever put in the Money Pit (Sand Sump) or even buried vertically anywhere on Oak Island, it was taken down the secret hidden Loading Shaft and then taken though a long horizontal railed Access Tunnel to be stored in the Repository, and that is still located below virgin ground. (see CAD)

Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

CaptGeorge, I don't know if you are referring to the China Sea map and The Deadman Island map, if you are but sorry they were definitely drawn by Captain William Kidd and/or John Ware. If you know how to read them both maps will show you where to start.
The maps that were drawn with the same basic cross compass set diagonally in the lower left corner are almost certainly drawn by Kidd or Ware, the X marks the spot mean nothing like the different shapes drawn of the islands.
Even the miners would not know that X spot for certain on the surface above the treasure, they would only have a basic idea of that location but that was of no interest to them at all.
The great accumulated treasure was never ever put in the Money Pit (Sand Sump) or even buried vertically anywhere on Oak Island, it was taken down the secret hidden Loading Shaft and then taken though a long horizontal railed Access Tunnel to be stored in the Repository, and that is still located below virgin ground. (see CAD)

Oak Island Sage

Do try to keep up. The China Sea Map aka Sarah Kidd Map was examined in 1951 by the Metropolitan Police Laboratory, New Scotland Yard, London and found to have modern pencil marks under the ink on the map. Are you saying Captain William Kidd used a time machine to transport himself to the early 20th century? You never even bothered to do basic research on these maps. If you had, you would have found the forensic report. I disagree with CapnGeorge on nearly everything but he at least had sense to acknowledge the forensic report in his 2016 book and he now accepts the reality that the China Sea Map aka Sarah Kidd Map is a hoax that was drawn in the early 20th century.

 

[Cryptid1990]

BREAKING NEWS

As I said in the other thread -



I will decide whether to reveal everything on this forum in next few days or wait to publish the article.

The thread is now here (under my real name):

Kidd-Palmer Treasure Maps SOLVED by Oliver D. Smith

Kidd-Palmer Treasure Maps SOLVED by Oliver D. Smith I have known about and taken an interest in the so-called Kidd-Palmer maps since around 2009, but did not seriously start to do research on them until last year, when I joined this forum. There are four maps in total; labeled for convenience...

www.treasurenet.com

I will refrain in this thread from discussing the solution to the Kidd-Palmer maps and leave that to the above thread. In contrast, this thread is primarily to discuss the whereabouts of the Kidd-Palmer maps but also any literature on them (such as by Harold T. Wilkins) or anything else of relevance such as the provenance of the maps (Arthur Hill-Cutler, Hubert Palmer). I am still searching for Wilkins' articles on the Kidd-Palmer maps. Note that he likely published a final article post-1950. One thing I have been able to confirm is that in 1951 he wrote letters responding to other letters about his article on the Kidd-Palmer maps in FATE (magazine): "Mystery of the Pirates Chart", FATE vol. 3, no. 8 (December 1950). In the April 1951 issue, someone wrote a letter about Captain Kidd. I presume that Wilkins responded about Kidd in the January, March, May, July or August issues for that year. However, I have not yet read these issues and cannot find them online to read.

I currently only have access to the April 1951, October 1951 and November 1951 issues:

https://s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/luminist/OC/FATE_1951_04.pdf

https://iapsop.com/archive/materials/fate_magazine/fate_v4_n7_oct_1951.pdf

https://s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/luminist/OC/FATE_1951_11.pdf

I checked and Wilkins did not publish anything on the maps (or Captain Kidd) in these.

Wilkins did though sporadically publish letters in the 1950s in FATE, for example in January 1952:

https://s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/luminist/OC/FATE_1952_01.pdf

I have searched all issues from 1952-1960 (see archive) and Wilkins did not publish any other articles or letters relevent to the Kidd-Palmer maps. His final letter on the maps and Captain Kidd must be in one of the 1951 issues (excluding April/October/November).

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Do try to keep up. The China Sea Map aka Sarah Kidd Map was examined in 1951 by the Metropolitan Police Laboratory, New Scotland Yard, London and found to have modern pencil marks under the ink on the map. Are you saying Captain William Kidd used a time machine to transport himself to the early 20th century? You never even bothered to do basic research on these maps. If you had, you would have found the forensic report. I disagree with CapnGeorge on nearly everything but he at least had sense to acknowledge the forensic report in his 2016 book and he now accepts the reality that the China Sea Map aka Sarah Kidd Map is a hoax that was drawn in the early 20th century.

Cryptid1990 The "China Sea" map aka the "Skeleton Island Map" was not the dubious "Sarah Kidd map", do try to keep up yourself.😆
Oak Island Sage.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Cryptid1990 The "China Sea" map aka the "Skeleton Island Map" was not the dubious "Sarah Kidd map", do try to keep up yourself.😆
Oak Island Sage.

Both the "Skeleton Map" and "Sarah Kidd Map" have China Sea written on it.
Previous writers for decades have also described the Sarah Kidd Map as China Sea Map.

 

[CapnGeorge]

Cryptid1990 The "China Sea" map aka the "Skeleton Island Map" was not the dubious "Sarah Kidd map", do try to keep up yourself.😆
Oak Island Sage.

The 'modern pencil marks', for those not in the know, were by a cartographer at the British Museum, possibly Skelton. He very carefully traced the maps with very small dashes. When satisfied with the correctness, the outline was filled in. The Bureau map was actual size, the others X2. I have the negatives. This is for info only, not an invitation for Cryptid to start an argument denying it happened.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

The 'modern pencil marks', for those not in the know, were by a cartographer at the British Museum, possibly Skelton. He very carefully traced the maps with very small dashes. When satisfied with the correctness, the outline was filled in. The Bureau map was actual size, the others X2. I have the negatives. This is for info only, not an invitation for Cryptid to start an argument denying it happened.

Hi CapnGeorge, I have tried myself to explain to Cryptid1990 and others that the China Sea map with the information legend around the outside of it is the only one of any value regarding the China Sea / Coral Sea types. It has deliberately been drawn containing 90% of misleading information. There are clues that provide vital information on it but I will not share them when I have been attacked by critical a naysayers like Cryptid1990. If he manages to get himself banned and his post aimed at me all removed then then I might reconsider my decision.

I am well aware of how many people have falsely claimed to have deciphered the map China Sea map/Skeleton Island map and it is easy for me to say hey! I've solved it, but the truth is - I have many years ago, and to say that the person who drew it was devious would be an under statement.
I am not prepared to reveal the real secrets yet because it could cause unwanted repercussion for the people who live on Oak Island and the current searchers of the Cerca Trova company working hard there..
The Deadman Island map that was drawn, signed, dated by Captain William Kidd is the one map that everyone should be researching, because it is genuine. What it clearly reveals will essentially necessitates substantial changes in previously recorded history.
There is one person on this forum who is apparently skating on very thin ice, he seems hell bent at any and all cost on to stop people believing the authenticity of the signed Deadman Island Map. I'm not like that, I don't demand that anyone believe my theories, only that they remember in the future that Mr Cerris Francis aka Oak Island Sage once told you all first, I'll settle for that.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi CapnGeorge, I have tried myself to explain to Cryptid1990 and others that the China Sea map with the information legend around the outside of it is the only one of any value regarding the China Sea / Coral Sea types. It has deliberately been drawn containing 90% of misleading information. There are clues that provide vital information on it but I will not share them when I have been attacked by critical a naysayers like Cryptid1990. If he manages to get himself banned and his post aimed at me all removed then then I might reconsider my decision.

I am well aware of how many people have falsely claimed to have deciphered the map China Sea map/Skeleton Island map and it is easy for me to say hey! I've solved it, but the truth is - I have many years ago, and to say that the person who drew it was devious would be an under statement.
I am not prepared to reveal the real secrets yet because it could cause unwanted repercussion for the people who live on Oak Island and the current searchers of the Cerca Trova company working hard there..
The Deadman Island map that was drawn, signed, dated by Captain William Kidd is the one map that everyone should be researching, because it is genuine. What it clearly reveals will essentially necessitates substantial changes in previously recorded history.
There is one person on this forum who is apparently skating on very thin ice, he seems hell bent at any and all cost on to stop people believing the authenticity of the signed Deadman Island Map. I'm not like that, I don't demand that anyone believe my theories, only that they remember in the future that Mr Cerris Francis aka Oak Island Sage once told you all first, I'll settle for that.

Oak Island Sage

You are now going on my ignore as well and I am no longer responding to you. I would appreciate if you further respond (I will not read your replies) if you at least stay on topic to these threads. This thread (I created) has nothing to do with the Deadman Island map. 🔚

 

[Cryptid1990]

Seeming as this is my thread and demonstrable misinformation has been posted by another poster I am ignoring, I will correct it without directly responding. The modern pencil marks on the Sarah Kidd Map had nothing whatsoever to do with a "cartographer at the British Museum" who "traced the maps". The map that was forensically examined was the original, not a copy. I know this because I accessed and actually read the forensic report and bundle of documents concerning the map in the National Archives. Elizabeth Dick made clear that she gave the police the original map and the police even described it as a "parchment". If the map examined was a known copy by tracing on paper by someone at the British Museum, the police would not have described it as a parchment. The reason why the map was sent to a police forensic lab was to determine its authenticity and Elizabeth Dick clarified it was the original map. This is proof that the map is a hoax since it has modern pencil marks underneath the ink. It was drawn in the early 20th century albeit on a centuries older parchment to try to pass it off as being genuine. I am not going to further correct dubious claims posted by the two users I put on ignore, but I would advise readers of my thread to take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt.

Edit: for verification, anyone can go to the National Archives to confirm what I said. The file reference: MEPO 2/9166.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10887942

 

[Oak Island Sage]

You are now going on my ignore as well and I am no longer responding to you. I would appreciate if you further respond (I will not read your replies) if you at least stay on topic to these threads. This thread (I created) has nothing to do with the Deadman Island map. 🔚