Kirks

[Hellbilly]

Lets see some Kirks. Ill start with this one. Found west central Fla. Just under 6"

 

[Tnmountains]

Gee I remember when they were still trying to figure out how artifacts were knapped. When we called hafted scrapers blunts or stunners. And true arrowheads were called bird points. The list goes on and on and yet we learn something new every day.
Remember the kirk snapped base debate? I visited his house in Cleveland,Tn . My Uncle worked with Bob Overstreet and yet he would not reply on the snapped base Kirk. Now it is accepted as a broken base kirk sometimes salvaged and used by signs of additional base work.

Happy Hunting!

 

[ToddsPoint]

Gee I remember when they were still trying to figure out how artifacts were knapped. When we called hafted scrapers blunts or stunners. And true arrowheads were called bird points. The list goes on and on and yet we learn something new every day.
Remember the kirk snapped base debate? I visited his house in Cleveland,Tn . My Uncle worked with Bob Overstreet and yet he would not reply on the snapped base Kirk. Now it is accepted as a broken base kirk sometimes salvaged and used by signs of additional base work.

Happy Hunting!

I started knapping in 1985. From ‘90-2000 I made nothing but fluted points. I learned so much with experimental archaeology. Now when I examine a point or debitage I know exactly what I’m looking at. All of the myths and misinformation disappears.
Here are three IL Kirk corner notched.

 

[Hellbilly]

Fla CNK

 

[russau]

Gary , I wish I had the skill you have & the knowledge you learned in doing so ! THANK YOU for sharing with us !

 

[muki]

Points are named after the type site where they were first excavated under proper archaeological conditions. A few types have been named years ago by collectors. Like dovetail and turkeytail. Is there a “Newkirk site” that was dug by arkies? Collector and local names for points are

Points are named after the type site where they were first excavated under proper archaeological conditions. A few types have been named years ago by collectors. Like dovetail and turkeytail. Is there a “Newkirk site” that was dug by arkies? Collector and local names for points are meaningless to archaeologists.

Points are named after the type site where they were first excavated under proper archaeological conditions. A few types have been named years ago by collectors. Like dovetail and turkeytail. Is there a “Newkirk site” that was dug by arkies? Collector and local names for points are meaningless to archaeologists.

 

[muki]

The Lake Apopka region housed an impressive concentration of Newkirk points, complemented by comparable findings across multiple Central Florida locations.

Standard Kirk serrated points feature the characteristic flat ears and square stem configuration. Newkirks display variations including the flower pot stem design, along with drooping barbs and serrations. The assemblage encompassed a diverse range of points spanning from the Paleo period, also including Bolen Beveled, Kirk Serrated, Newman Sumter, and transitional Kirk to Newnan points identified as Newkirk variants.

 

[newnan man]

The Lake Apopka region housed an impressive concentration of Newkirk points, complemented by comparable findings across multiple Central Florida locations.

Standard Kirk serrated points feature the characteristic flat ears and square stem configuration. Newkirks display variations including the flower pot stem design, along with drooping barbs and serrations. The assemblage encompassed a diverse range of points spanning from the Paleo period, also including Bolen Beveled, Kirk Serrated, Newman Sumter, and transitional Kirk to Newnan points identified as Newkirk variants.

No such thing as a "Newkirk." Kirks are much older in the archeological (early Archaic) record than Newnans and much more widespread. Newnans are (Mid Archaic) and rarely found outside of Florida. Lake Apopka has given up artifacts from Trans-Paleo to Historic.

 

[muki]

"no Clovis in Florida" Then you need to explain this. Personal find on pp with permission

It might be worth noting that extracting a modest portion from context. originating in 1950 and subsequently constructing an argument upon that limited selection could potentially overlook important contextual elements. A more thorough review of the complete post would likely provide greater clarity and a more balanced perspective on the matter.

When Ben Waller asserted that there was a Clovis in a Mastodon in the Silver River, the state archaeologist Ripley Pierce Bullen dismissed it, stating they would not investigate. "Paleo Indians do not exist in Florida"

 

[muki]

No such thing as a "Newkirk." Kirks are much older in the archeological (early Archaic) record than Newnans and much more widespread. Newnans are (Mid Archaic) and rarely found outside of Florida. Lake Apopka has given up artifacts from Trans-Paleo to Historic.

Newnan points and Kirk serrated points are both types of projectile points found in Florida. They are recognized in the context of artifact collecting and archaeology within the region.

Both types Newnan and Kirk Serated can be found in the same archaeological contexts, indicating that they may have been used by similar cultures or during overlapping time periods.

 

[muki]

The Lake Apopka region housed an impressive concentration of Newkirk points, complemented by comparable findings across multiple Central Florida locations.

Standard Kirk serrated points feature the characteristic flat ears and square stem configuration. Newkirks display variations including the flower pot stem design, along with drooping barbs and serrations. The assemblage encompassed a diverse range of points spanning from the Paleo period, also including Bolen Beveled, Kirk Serrated, Newman Sumter, and transitional Kirk to Newnan points identified as Newkirk variants.

Yes, there was an overlapping time period in Florida between the Newnan and Kirk Serrated points, as both are associated with the Early to Middle Archaic period.

 

[newnan man]

Yes, there was an overlapping time period in Florida between the Newnan and Kirk Serrated points, as both are associated with the Early to Middle Archaic period.

Kirks are older than Newnans and do not fit into the cluster and ard not similar. They may have briefly overlapped but one did not morph into the other.

 

[muki]

It was muki that said there are no Clovis in FL, not pepperj. No doubt in my mind you have a real paleo point!

Here's a few, all are from Hillsborough County Florida except the last one which is from S Ga. Picture 6 is worn down to a nub; it's 1 inch.

Those are really good examples to show how that a Kirk Sherated has a square stem. Whereas the Newkirk has variations like the flower pot stem and the drooping barbs that Newnan points are so well known for similar to the one that was posted at the beginning of this tread. However they still have serations it's called transition from one type of point to another very similar to the Union Side Notched a transitional point from Suwannee to a Greenbrier. That's why these transitional points are very rare point types , because they only span a transition of a thousand years or less.

 

[muki]

How about permanent? Only 21 posts and all negative

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That seems to be a very genuine problem here most everyone has a negative outview

 

[muki]

"no Clovis in Florida" Then you need to explain this. Personal find on pp with permission

It was Ripley Pierce Bullen who told Ben Waller that in 1950. I'm not really sure where spreading misinformation is very constructive or helps to contribute correct information to new people that are trying to learn.

That sounds like Ben Waller telling me about call up Ripley P. Bullen and telling him that he found Clovis points inside of a Mastodon at Silver River and then begging him for close to a year to come investigate, only to be told.I'm not coming. There were never paleo indians in Florida lol 😆😂🤭😃😀

 

[muki]

Do people actually come here to share information and show the relics and discuss new information, or is just just a place of argument such as between protestants and Catholics.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

No such thing as a "Newkirk." Kirks are much older in the archeological (early Archaic) record than Newnans and much more widespread. Newnans are (Mid Archaic) and rarely found outside of Florida. Lake Apopka has given up artifacts from Trans-Paleo to Historic.

Yep, might be why newkirk not found in Overstreet guide, or any Lar Holthum books or legitimate artifact books..

 

[muki]

Yep, might be why newkirk not found in Overstreet guide, or any Lar Holthum books or legitimate artifact books..

Actually, many things have changed over the years since there was never a paleo in Florida. As well as Santa Fe points we're not from the paleo time period. Learning is ever-evolving, it does not stop producing new information. Unless people are just close minded and have no interest in learning , which seems to be the typical theme here lol 😆 🤣 😂 🤔

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You cant just make up your own name and call it a new style.

 

[muki]

You cant just make up your own name and call it a new style.

Should these remarks pertain to me, I would humbly suggest that a less combative stance would be more appropriate for a moderator. Disseminating information in a provocative manner, particularly when one's role is to facilitate rather than inflame discussion, raises questions about judgment. Cultivating greater impartiality and fairness would better support the moderating function. This understanding is not mine alone. This represents a coordinated effort by numerous diggers- collectors based in Central Florida and extending into South Georgia. I would reasonably conclude that such a comprehensive group of contributors cannot be wholly mistaken. Nevertheless, I would respectfully propose that the current methodology is fundamentally problematic.

 

[newnan man]

Actually, many things have changed over the years since there was never a paleo in Florida. As well as Santa Fe points we're not from the paleo time period. Learning is ever-evolving, it does not stop producing new information. Unless people are just close minded and have no interest in learning , which seems to be the typical theme here lol 😆 🤣 😂 🤔

You are the only person who I've ever heard say that people said there were no Paleo artifacts in Florida. They have been finding Paleo and Trans Paleo artifacts in Florida from early on. Simpson, Wheeler, Clovis, Dalton, Suwanee, etc.