Legend of the Stone Maps

[sdcfia]

sdcfia............are you saying the law ONLY pertains to public land?

Federal land. States have their own rules for State land. If you dig it up in your own back yard, it's yours. Unless the previous landowner sues you.

 

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[Old]

lynda...around here it only pertains to public land...you can pick up arrowheads..pottery or any artifact including petrified wood as long as its on your property

Well there ya go. That's probably why Mitchell had the X marks the spot map of where they were found. On private land. Of course, without permission that would be theft. But; until there is a victim involving an interstate crime the FBI wouldn't be involved. Any local "crime" would be the state's problem not the FBI.

If the FBI had them in their "care" it could have only been due to the stock issue, which by the charges actually brought, was a minor infraction. Certainly nothing alleged there to go so far as to confiscate property.

I'm leaning toward nothing official ever happened with the stones by the FBI. I have seen the Corbin letter, I also know a thing or three about lawmen. They are just as nosey as anyone else maybe even more so. I can easily believe there was talk and interest far beyond boring stock ledgers. But; not anywhere near approaching a confiscation and transport to DC for analysis. A bring em in for a look see? Sure, I can see that happening. Curiosity isn't beyond a FBI agent and rendering an unofficial opinion isn't either. My guess its that's the conversation Mr. Corbin recalls.

 

[sgtfda]

Watch that Old

 

[Azquester]

Frank,

Is that really Travis's cross?

You can't see the rest of my photo where the circle of stones are behind the cross but you have a photo of a cross with the same design as this one. Only in the one I found it's made of wood and has the circle of stones to the north.
But it contains the other symbol in your photo under the cross as part of the stone pile that supports the wooden cross!


The boots.

Did Travis wear these types of old green leather boots? Do we have an original set of Travis Stone Map Treasure hunting boots?

I guess we can sell green Map Boots for searching stone map trails?

We could also serve green eggs and Ham!

I remember, that was the cross from the Bat Cave! It all makes sense now!

Guano is green! Travis was at the bat cave dipping his boots in poo.

View attachment 1180828

You outdid yourself Bill. You found Tumlinson's cross.

 

[releventchair]

Bat sap sticks. Not enough to mend broken stones perhaps, but it sticks. Stains too. On my siding.

 

[sgtfda]

Bill I thought you could use that photo for your comparison. The plot thickens.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

Regarding Travis Tumlinson attempting to sell the Stone Maps. We know a lot of the same people. I have NEVER heard ANYBODY say that they could tell me unequivocally that they knew Travis had tried to sell the Stone Maps.

What we have is you saying that "Somebody told me that somebody else told them, that they heard Travis had tried to sell the Stone Maps."

While I don't expect you to divulge sources, I have to say that a lot of people say a lot of things that aren't necessarily true. While I trust that you state the truth as you know it, I don't know your source in this. Even then, your source is only second hand. So far, I have collected about five different stories as to the origins of The Stone Maps. Not all of them can be true. Three different people claim to have sold the stone maps to Tumlinson. Unless you have someone FIRSTHAND that says Travis offered to sell them the Stone Maps, I am not biting.

Mike

Mike,

Actually, you do know my source. I believe you would accept the story as true, if he should tell it to you personally. Keep working and one day you may hear it from my source. I believe it.......100%

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

Federal land. States have their own rules for State land. If you dig it up in your own back yard, it's yours. Unless the previous landowner sues you.

Howdy sdcfia,

From what I recall, who ever holds the title to the land, is the owner, and can't be sued by the previous owner. Could you show where you read different? Thanks.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

Well there ya go. That's probably why Mitchell had the X marks the spot map of where they were found. On private land. Of course, without permission that would be theft. But; until there is a victim involving an interstate crime the FBI wouldn't be involved. Any local "crime" would be the state's problem not the FBI.

If the FBI had them in their "care" it could have only been due to the stock issue, which by the charges actually brought, was a minor infraction. Certainly nothing alleged there to go so far as to confiscate property.

I'm leaning toward nothing official ever happened with the stones by the FBI. I have seen the Corbin letter, I also know a thing or three about lawmen. They are just as nosey as anyone else maybe even more so. I can easily believe there was talk and interest far beyond boring stock ledgers. But; not anywhere near approaching a confiscation and transport to DC for analysis. A bring em in for a look see? Sure, I can see that happening. Curiosity isn't beyond a FBI agent and rendering an unofficial opinion isn't either. My guess its that's the conversation Mr. Corbin recalls.

Howdy Lynda,

I don't know the exact time for the statue of limitations, but sure seems like it was reached therefore the Government, or land owner could do nothing.

Homar

 

[cactusjumper]

Then why does his name keep popping up in your posts from time to time?

He has absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand, so why don't you just let him be?

You claim that he was wont to delete your posts without reason or whenever he disagreed with you; that is quite untrue.

Whenever he has deleted your post, he always gave a clear reason for doing so; for example when you tried to use Bilbrey's incarceration to discredit the Stone Crosses as being a scam perpetuated by Bilbrey, even though that was not the subject of the thread.

Just as Travis Tumlinson's incarceration has nothing to do with the validity of the Stone Maps.

deducer,

Believe what you want. Jim was very involved in the Stone Map story. There are many people who know how he blew up and cursed a supposed friend when he voiced his opinion that the Stone Maps were a hoax.

Makes me laugh to see the like you received for your post. Jim hated that person.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Hal,

Sorry about addressing those posts to you. The were meant for deducer. All these anonymous attacks make my head spin. Maybe it's the vertigo.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[sdcfia]

Howdy sdcfia,

From what I recall, who ever holds the title to the land, is the owner, and can't be sued by the previous owner. Could you show where you read different? Thanks.

Homar

Hey Homar,
Life isn't necessarily fair. People can drag you into court for anything, then lie through their teeth when they get there. "I just found my grandpa's diary. Looks like those gold coins you found in the back yard were his and they rightfully belong to our family." Etc, etc, etc. You might spend your new fortune on lawyers. Or settle. I've been involved in a similar situation myself for the past two years (property boundary dispute). There's sociopathic liars out there.

 

[gollum]

Hey Homar,
Life isn't necessarily fair. People can drag you into court for anything, then lie through their teeth when they get there. "I just found my grandpa's diary. Looks like those gold coins you found in the back yard were his and they rightfully belong to our family." Etc, etc, etc. You might spend your new fortune on lawyers. Or settle. I've been involved in a similar situation myself for the past two years (property boundary dispute). There's sociopathic liars out there.

SDCFIA,

While we may severely disagree on some things, here, you are EXACTLY CORRECT! All you have to do is read about Mel Fisher and his Atocha Find. After the find was made public, his attorney had to fight (if I am not mistaken) about 122 lawsuits from everybody that had ever heard the name Mel Fisher or Atocha. They said they had given him the information necessary to find the ship. That he had verbally promised them a share (even though he had never met them), etc etc etc.

That is one of my biggest concerns regarding public acknowledgement of a find. You would be tied up in frivolous lawsuits for years before you could enjoy any of your money.

Mike

 

[Old]

Homar,

I agree it is much too late for a land owner to raise ownership issues. Its called laches. Which is basically setting on your rights too long whereby one can no longer exercise those rights. It least that's what its called here. In the eastern states we go by old English law. You guys out west have a mixture of laws which I don't begin to understand.

Usually my posts are too wordy. In this case, I didn't say enough. What I was trying to convey was the thought that "at the time of the find" it could have been a theft issue on private property which would have been a locally prosecuted issue. But; would not have involved the FBI, at least not on that issue.

The Securities investigator in the stock issue may have alerted the FBI if (big if) there was an indication of fraud involved. We have nothing from the file which gives any indication that fraud was ever investigated. If it was, there should have been a surviving file. If there was no interstate criminal investigation the FBI had "0" authority to do anything.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

SDCFIA,

While we may severely disagree on some things, here, you are EXACTLY CORRECT! All you have to do is read about Mel Fisher and his Atocha Find. After the find was made public, his attorney had to fight (if I am not mistaken) about 122 lawsuits from everybody that had ever heard the name Mel Fisher or Atocha. They said they had given him the information necessary to find the ship. That he had verbally promised them a share (even though he had never met them), etc etc etc.

That is one of my biggest concerns regarding public acknowledgement of a find. You would be tied up in frivolous lawsuits for years before you could enjoy any of your money.

Mike

Exactly !!! And this is why when something significant was found...... I'm sorry, I meant if something significant is ever found you would NEVER make it public or let anyone but your closest confidants know about it.

Matthew

 

[gollum]

Frank,

Please reread Bob's Letter to Greg Davis. The FBI Agent that was visiting the US Attorney's Office in Phoenix was from the FBI Lab in Washington DC. Maybe you missed that part.

Joe,

What Jim did or did not delete is inconsequential. What Bob put on paper to is what I take as gospel from Bob. Every time someone other than the Original Teller tells the story, a little something usually gets added or subtracted (usually based on the preconceived notions of the teller). Always go back to the first person, to get closest to the truth.

You also know that I have always stayed away from taking sides in all this LDM Crap that so many people do. Jim and I were about as tight as Jim could be with anybody. You and I have always been on good terms as well. I treat people according to how they act towards me.

Mike

 

[Old]

Not that it matters all that much.........But the FBI lab is not in Washington DC. Its in Quantico, Virginia, about 40 miles south of DC. Has been there since 1932.

 

[sgtfda]

Mike the FBI does not have agents working in the lab. They have crime lab technician's and fingerprint examiners. To become a FBI agent you are required to be a attorney or a accountant. That does not qualify a agent to examine stone tablets. I should know. I helped them out on processing crime scenes.
I should add now that Hoover is dead they expanded their list of qualifications a little bit. Look it up. That's the part of the story that make no sense. FBI agents did not work in the crime lab. Perhaps Bob confused a Tech with a agent. But unless it was a huge case a Tech would not travel. They used locals. That is why they used me on local cases. Plus the would never get their suits dirty. They watched.

 

[sdcfia]

Exactly !!! And this is why when something significant was found...... I'm sorry, I meant if something significant is ever found you would NEVER make it public or let anyone but your closest confidants know about it.

Matthew

Was that a Freudian slip?

 

[gollum]

Joe,

One thing about Travis trying to sell the stone maps. I don't believe it for a second.

What I do believe however, is that something might have gotten mixed up with your sources' source. Clarence Mitchell used the Nom de Plume "Travis Marlowe." We know for a fact that Mitchell attempted to sell the Stone Maps to several people. The most famous being Dick Peck. It would be very easy to mix up Travis Marlowe with Travis Tumlinson. Just a thought.

Frank,

I spoke directly with Agent John Fox PhD of the FBI. He is/was the current FBI Historian. Most FOIA Requests about anything in the FBI historical records go through him. The same thing happens every time that story starts coming around. People start parsing words and putting different meanings to something said, when it was never implied or stated by Bob or anyone else. Bob Corbin is another one of those few people that I take anything they tell me as what they know to be the truth. No polish or poetic license. No embellishment.

THIS is how I evaluate Bob Corbin's Letter:

He was working in his capacity as a State or County Attorney (he did both) in Phoenix. He had friends in the US Attorney's Office (same building). For whatever reason (the reason makes no difference), a representative of the FBI (whatever capacity he was employed) was there (probably escorting the Stone Maps from DC to Az). Bob's friend knew Bob was a Dutch Hunter and would probably be interested in what this guy had to say. Over the course of the discussion, the FBI Guy told Bob that the FBI had been given the Stone Maps to see if they could determine whether the maps were recent fakes. The FBI examined the Stone Maps and deemed them to be "AT LEAST A HUNDRED YEARS OLD" (in the late 1960s). END-PERIOD-FINITO

SIMPLE:

Bob + FBI = at least 100 years old. Don't try and assume anybody's intentions or motives. Just go by what Bob said. End of story. I know it doesn't jibe with your and Ryan's theories, but it is the simple truth.

Mike