Legend vs Realitiy

[azdave35]

Maybe people could label theories or speculation as such. You are right. The entire forum is riddled with claims, and some have nothing do with any sort of treasure.
I'm curious, since your posts are usually worthwhile, have you ever had odd experiences in the Superstition Mountains?

years ago but i haven't been up there in a long time...i do have a story about a treasure found in the area...if there is enough interest i'll post it...i don't want to waste my time typing if nobody wants to read it

 

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[393stroker]

I remember a movie with Jackie Chan chasing a treasure in the SW USA . He smoked the peace pipe with a native tribe and woke up the next day in a teepee being married to Chief's daughter.

The same thing happened to Jeremiah Johnson

 

[PotBelly Jim]

years ago but i haven't been up there in a long time...i do have a story about a treasure found in the area...if there is enough interest i'll post it...i don't want to waste my time typing if nobody wants to read it

Dave, you know I like hearing those stories so my vote is always a "yes". Not too many folks left that know the details of these stories, and those that do aren't too likely to be on TNET.

 

[weekender]

years ago but i haven't been up there in a long time...i do have a story about a treasure found in the area...if there is enough interest i'll post it...i don't want to waste my time typing if nobody wants to read it

I'd read it

 

[cyzak]

I'd read it

Id read it.

 

[Al D]

I will read you story Dave,

 

[dredgernaut]

Id read it.

Please

 

[Real of Tayopa]

gentlemen, please, the best that I could do was in a circle of confusion of1/2 mile with a sextant and a reasonably accurate time piece. Now days with the GPS that the Navy has the can get their position to within 3 ft, out of my class.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

years ago but i haven't been up there in a long time...i do have a story about a treasure found in the area...if there is enough interest i'll post it...i don't want to waste my time typing if nobody wants to read it

We all want to hear it. You could start a new thread if others have other such stories.

 

[Oroblanco]

Sign me up too Dave - let 'er rip with both barrels!

I think BB would get much less flak if he were to simply phrase things a bit differently, like "it is my belief" rather than saying "it is Cibola". Can't address the visions, the closest I can grasp are the experiments our military did with 'remote viewing' which did seem to indicate there is a human capability to 'see' or somehow sense things at a great distance, even outside of the current time line. How accurate these 'remote viewings' proved to be however is a grey zone, so much is open to interpretation, and MIS-interpretation. Some psychics have complained of this issue, that they are receiving imagery (or sounds etc) that are symbolic in nature rather than literal, leading to making mistakes in interpretation.

I hope that when BB returns to his site, he will get the proof he desires. Or is able to disprove it, which ever the case may be. I once hiked about a half mile, through nasty cactus and rough terrain keeping my eye on a glowing gold object on a hillside. Unfortunately it was a golden beer can. But even disproving a theory is making progress.

Please do continue, and Dave you now have plenty of reasons to write.

 

[Blindbowman]

where did you think they went ? .....shopping ! ...they went to a near by strong hold in the mountains where they believed the sheer numbers would keep them safe .a place where they knew had been there long ago , ancient ...we in the modern world get the sweet and clean variation of the truth as we want to hear it ..the truth is they wanted Gold ,wealth and they would kill anything in their way to finding it .. those people at Casa Grande left to hide in the mountains and the Spanish track them down destroyed all most all of the city, as they stated Razed to the ground and then in salved the people in the mines ...is that the history you want to hear . the truth the Spanish were the savages ! or just the facts ...as history tells it ... leavening out the real truth ...you just can not except the truth . white man came and killed and destroyed thousands of years of culture and men ,women and children for greed .....

 

[Al D]

where did you think they went ? .....shopping ! ...they went to a near by strong hold in the mountains where they believed the sheer numbers would keep them safe .a place where they knew had been there long ago , ancient ...we in the modern world get the sweet and clean variation of the truth as we want to hear it ..the truth is they wanted Gold ,wealth and they would kill anything in their way to finding it .. those people at Casa Grande left to hide in the mountains and the Spanish track them down destroyed all most all of the city, as they stated Razed to the ground and then in salved the people in the mines ...is that the history you want to hear . the truth the Spanish were the savages ! or just the facts ...as history tells it ... leavening out the real truth ...you just can not except the truth . white man came and killed and destroyed thousands of years of culture and men ,women and children for greed .....

Not true, as usual, the Spanish came here over 100 years AFTER Casa Grande was built, but nice try

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Not true, as usual, the Spanish came here over 100 years AFTER Casa Grande was built, but nice try

This site
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/casa-grande-ruins

"Built by the ancient Sonoran people around 1350, the structure was abandoned only a century afterward, and was already in ruins by the time Kino came upon it."

Padre Kino may not have been the first European to see it but first to note it, I read somewhere. Which may refer to Cabeza de Vaca?
I wonder why pueblos would be built and then abandoned with no apparent cause. Seems this happened a few times.
And wonder if some Indians heard of the Spanish and left. Not meaning Casa Grande, but other groups after the Spanish came.
Bowman is right that people generally were not told the entire truth about history. In America anyway, as children we were not given the entire story.
Once older we are free to hsearch, and form an opinion.
Maybe off topic but do you have an opinion about the places abandoned without apparent cause in the Southwest?

 

[azdave35]

This site
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/casa-grande-ruins

"Built by the ancient Sonoran people around 1350, the structure was abandoned only a century afterward, and was already in ruins by the time Kino came upon it."

Padre Kino may not have been the first European to see it but first to note it, I read somewhere. Which may refer to Cabeza de Vaca?
I wonder why pueblos would be built and then abandoned with no apparent cause. Seems this happened a few times.
And wonder if some Indians heard of the Spanish and left. Not meaning Casa Grande, but other groups after the Spanish came.
Bowman is right that people generally were not told the entire truth about history. In America anyway, as children we were not given the entire story.
Once older we are free to hsearch, and form an opinion.
Maybe off topic but do you have an opinion about the places abandoned without apparent cause in the Southwest?

the history being taught to kids nowadays is definitely censored ..

 

[Al D]

This site
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/casa-grande-ruins

"Built by the ancient Sonoran people around 1350, the structure was abandoned only a century afterward, and was already in ruins by the time Kino came upon it."

Padre Kino may not have been the first European to see it but first to note it, I read somewhere. Which may refer to Cabeza de Vaca?
I wonder why pueblos would be built and then abandoned with no apparent cause. Seems this happened a few times.
And wonder if some Indians heard of the Spanish and left. Not meaning Casa Grande, but other groups after the Spanish came.
Bowman is right that people generally were not told the entire truth about history. In America anyway, as children we were not given the entire story.
Once older we are free to hsearch, and form an opinion.
Maybe off topic but do you have an opinion about the places abandoned without apparent cause in the Southwest?

A lot of research and speculation has been done on this topic, as it now stands, it is academically accepted that a severe shortage of usable water coupled with increased competition from encroaching hunter gatherer groups is what caused the abandonment of most large scale habitation sites.

 

[Blindbowman]

IMHO this may not have become a logical issue yet but the over all wealth of the tunnel and mines may exceed 7-10 times the value of the Atocha. I base this on the 240 pack mules of Jesuit treasure as 7 X that of the Atocha and 3 X that of the LDM it self .. and this dose not account for the jewels or the vane Mother load I believe is there ,and I do have evidence that it exist ...if it was all still hidden there it would be somewhere in the 10-12 billion range ...IMHO .if i found all of it ,I would give 90% of it to the Native American Indian Nations .....

 

[Blindbowman]

OK : I have spent more then 25 years studying Chicomoztoc and the Seven caves .I have spent most life braking code and learning symbolism..so I am going to translate the chichimeca codex of " the Seven Caves " IMHO .....first to start with the translation as we know it is foolishness . this codex was drawn from the original that is in Paris ,France...we will assume that the man that copied it was good at what he did . because this has become the most known drawing of the codex ..so let get started : first off these is a record of a given event .. " a marriage" between the two worlds .. tribes from North America and tribes from south America ..the North America tribes are from Aztlan, they are on the left side of the drawing ..note the bride is squatting, note the he is standing on the right side ...he is from south America ,note the macaw feathers on the tribes to the right side of the caves ...now note the stone mountains behind the brides tribe and see the tribes head dress from a northern direct most likely Utah ,the tribe below her tribe is wearing a Mexican type head dress .. what we have as a over sight I is 3 tribes on the left and 3 tribes on the right . we see the Aztec Eagle & Leopard warriors over seeing the marriage, we see the top cave as much the same as a holly shaman wedding them like a priest would ..note his black foot prints do not relate to ether side they leave after the event .. note the path of the bride and the husband relate to each side of the tribes in the caves at the time of this event ... , now look out side the door way we see a stone hat on the brides side and feathers on the right side ...this was a big event by both sides of the wedding ...and they were given setting placements before they came into the caves ...,now you see what looks like broken rocks that start at the caves of the bride and go up and round the top of the drawing , at the top you see a stone path and a wooden bridge and the path ends with a shape shifter recording the event ,he is recording the marriage between the two stone and wood ..., note the curling smoke from the skin walkers fire pit . this is words . if you look down at the feathers of pen & sword near the opening of the caves you see the feather of the pen curled you also see a window ...on the other side you see a snake ring and a ear and a hand ..these tell us where the these two tribes are from ......this is the correct translation of this codex IMHO ...and yes I know this site is still there ...

 

[Blindbowman]

I do note that I found something funny about how they relate to the word Aztlan . it can mean north America or just the area where the small island is and this relates the mountains as a vast sea of mountains surrounding the island in the center of the Bola .. thus Cibola .. ! so the word Aztlan can be used from a over all view or a given spot within Aztlan, I guess they mean here is here as long as its part of the over all Aztlan ...

 

[Blindbowman]

note the bride looks to be setting on something . that something is a baby wrapped up in cloth ...or it could be a birthing stone . but the meaning is there ether way ..

 

[Blindbowman]

so just in case you did not under stand the translation of this seven cave codex . look at the baby, its the birth of Quetzalcoatl, look at the husband and wife . the wife's side of the marriage, the Snake and cactus king and ear and on the other side of the marriage the bird and feathers ,thus we see the mix in the baby ... the snake serpent with bird feathers .. the history of the two family blood line can be traced back threw the codex symbolism so we it is time we will see the birth place of Quetzalcoatl....IMHO this is why the tribes did not want Waltz working the mine ... because he was with in a stones throw of the seven caves . had nothing to do with the Gold ...a sacred cave I guess so . one of their most feared God was Born there ...! lol ...I really do know how to get your self into dangerous places ,why I was translating this codex . I found some research on a drink they made for Quetzalcoatl as a baby . it maybe what made him a GOD ...IMHO this will become very interesting as I see and read more of the codex and symbolism ...I know where the Montezuma treasure is now ..