Looking for KGC experts to Host new Discovery Channel series

[sdcfia]

SD, do you know that for sure? I've read Brewer's Rebel Gold, and that large square is much bigger than a section of land!

I don't know anything for sure. By the way, Brewer's track record is not without many failures - some very public. Too bad his second book (third, actually) - prepared without the likes of Getler - will not be published.

 

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[franklin]

If you would have explored that site you would have noticed that it belong to Michael Griffith, and would have been part of that "big KGC discovery in Oklahoma" that Texas Jay referenced.
You say they all came from Ebay?
Interesting.

If you had read the old blog sites about that recovery by Michael Griffith, you would have found out by HBB's story that he went and found the empty hole and that he had been double crossed by Michael Griffith. An empty hole does not mean that a treasure was ever found? When HBB came to Danville, Va on the DECODED Television Show they said that HBB had found a KGC Depository of over $200,000. Has anyone ever seen this treasure and has the Internal Revenue Service received any taxes for the claim of recovering a $200,000. treasure? Is that $200,000 face value in gold? Then HBB would have to pay taxes on over $13 Million Dollars. Has he paid taxes on this proclaimed treasure that DECODED clearly and unmistakenly said he had found? No? Because no treasure was ever found. Only the wind blowing.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Oh God another fake reality show. Doesn't Hoffman want to go?

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Hoffman can`t walk !

 

[ECS]

To find a vault of the KGC
First go find a talking tree
Listen to what it has to say
The bark won't bite but show the way
Then get yourself a BURMA SHAVE!

 

[releventchair]

All land surveying is described by metes and bounds (distances and angles from one point to the next), as shown on any legal description of real property such as your property deed. What I'm talking about is the 36-square mile grid system established by Thomas Jefferson and implemented into a standard method of dividing public land- most of which eventually became private land due to sale, grant or homesteading as time passed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Ordinance_of_1785

These land sections (square miles) are what the template overlays are allegedly used for. The template can be scaled to fit any land map of course, the USGS quad sheets being a very common example - and the source of much speculation regarding the "KGC's" use of surveyors on their "team". The USGS itself has been alleged to be part of the big plan.

Not only is the template overlay alleged to be a way to locate caches, but also the 36 numbered squares of the Townships. The numbers of the sections are alleged to be referred to in carved clues, for example. There are many ways that a surveyor can make a cache location complicated to find, as you might imagine.



There are other templates similar to TJ's with slight differences, but nearly the same. Some have additional annotations, with interesting symbology. The point is, it looks like a simple tool but there is an alleged proprietary method of using of the thing. Folks go to the dot locations and find a lot of empty holes, thinking that someone has beaten them to the prize. IMO, those holes are just plain empty and always have been.



True, assuming you can locate the appropriate starting point. Carved stones can be destroyed, moved or otherwise disappeared. I have a funny story about a carved stone and treasure hunter, but one that is not as funny is a section corner that my partner and I located last Friday - a nice GLO brass cap set onto a steel pipe driven into the ground in 1938. The un-funny thing is that it replaced an original carved stone that was placed in the 1870s about 140 feet away. That original stone was incorrectly set and needed to be replaced. It was removed and buried. Tough luck for somebody who was looking for it, eh?

IMO, if these "KGC" caches exist as speculated, most (maybe not all) were hidden late 1800s-early 1900s, and many relocated 1920s-1930s.

Ughh.
Orientation of template on map, with allowing template to not consistently be positioned with a cardinal end ,as with a common map , could get interesting.
Even if knowing scale. Or what monument( s) to reference.
A couple recovery sites could help ,but would not allow duplication of another sites orientation.
Clever.
How then ,to know orientation? In a system where the knowledge / method/ monument does not get lost or destroyed, altered or in your example relocated ?

Section markers are maintained...More than most informal ones anyway. One can give rough idea of the others locations without visiting them, with confirmation on a site/ parcel once located. But how to orient using them ....Closest comes to mind ,but what if equidistant between multiples?

 

[sdcfia]

Ughh.
Orientation of template on map, with allowing template to not consistently be positioned with a cardinal end ,as with a common map , could get interesting.
Even if knowing scale. Or what monument( s) to reference.
A couple recovery sites could help ,but would not allow duplication of another sites orientation.
Clever.
How then ,to know orientation? In a system where the knowledge / method/ monument does not get lost or destroyed, altered or in your example relocated ?

Section markers are maintained...More than most informal ones anyway. One can give rough idea of the others locations without visiting them, with confirmation on a site/ parcel once located. But how to orient using them ....Closest comes to mind ,but what if equidistant between multiples?

There are so many ways of pinpointing a specific spot on the ground that it would make your head spin. For example, I could give you exact lat/long coordinates to a point on the ground accurate to within a centimeter. You could hire a surveyor with a $50,000 gps to take you to the point. Guess what? If the surveyor wasn't told which datum (mathematical model of the earth's ellipsoid shape) to use for his measurements, you could be in the wrong location by a hundred yards, maybe much more. To make matters worse, there are dozens of datum to choose from, all different. Which one to use? The cacher's little secret, ha ha.

Don't like coordinates and want to use metes and bounds from a specific starting point instead? Say, that carved rock you found? Sounds bulletproof, eh? First thing you do is figure out which direction true north is and adjust your compass based on today's magnetic declination. Routine. You can look that info up online today, but it used to be that the declination had to be calculated by observation in years past. Routine, no problem. Where I live, the magnetic declination today is 9 degrees east of north. Away we go, let's say due north 500 feet. Wait a minute - what if the mapper was being clever and hid the goodies using a totally arbitrary declination of his own choosing to confuse you, say 18 degrees east of north, his little secret? If you set your compass to 9 instead of 18, which should be a no-brainer, you'd be off by 78 feet from the cacher's true location after your 500 foot march. Bummer.

Something to keep in mind: we are not smarter than those who preceded us. There are many, many ways to fool you with treasure maps.

 

[ECS]

...
I got the impression from reading their stories that either they..or a caretaker of the land knew Griffith and that was how his identity was confirmed from the cams.
...I doubt Griffith would have thought that the sisters would have put up surveillance like that so he probably wasn't looking for anything except to get in and out as soon as possible. That's just my thoughts about the cams being noticed....there are articles about Griffith and the Gillespie sisters online...I think Brewers old site even has something on it regarding all of that...

An news article about Jo Anne and Ceci Gillespie, the history of limestone quarry they inherited (AKA KGC, outlaw hideout, etc) and Michael Griffith, school teacher turned treasure hunter:
Legends of treasure haunt Johnston County quarry | News OK

 

[ECS]

If you had read the old blog sites about that recovery by Michael Griffith, you would have found out by HBB's story that he went and found the empty hole and that he had been double crossed by Michael Griffith. An empty hole does not mean that a treasure was ever found? ...

News article where Bob Brewer discusses the "teacher" AKA Michael Griffith, who snuck back onto the Gillespie property and removed a WELLS FARGO strongbox "full of gold coins":
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-treasure5dec05-story.html

 

[Benjamin Gates]

Many people have shown up at the farm with that template...I never knew how it was supposed to work Everywhere...TJ explained Brewers marker cashe theory, franklin countered with his opinion. The county assessor said the same thing you did, but since I've never seen anyone actually use it, I didn't really know anything about it...except a lot of people have one.

I like that you share your surveying knowledge here. Thank You, SD

Kace

What farm is that? Can you elaborate?

 

[RGINN]

I've been tracked and stalked to my potential treasure sites on several occasions. The stalkers were obviously greedy, unscrupulous, and lazy treasure hunters who couldn't find treasure any other way than to follow those of us who have worked our butts off to develop good leads. To my knowledge, none of my stalkers were Feds. That's the way my late partner and I lost the big marker cache. Did the thieves have to surrender that $1/4 million "find" to the Feds? No. Was KGC treasure hunter Bob Brewer, who went public with some of his KGC finds amounting to nearly $300,000, ever challenged by the Feds over ownership of that treasure? No. How about KGC hunter Michael Griffith, who made the big KGC discovery in Oklahoma? Again, the answer is No. These finds have been publicized all over the place and not one has ever been seized by the Federal Government, using your theory of what would happen when someone finds KGC treasure. Maybe the Federal Government knows more about what they can legally seize than you do.
~Texas Jay

I missed that. What 'big KGC discovery' did Michael Griffith make in Oklahoma? I heard he found some stuff, but it was only KGC connected cause he said it was.

 

[releventchair]

There are so many ways of pinpointing a specific spot on the ground that it would make your head spin. For example, I could give you exact lat/long coordinates to a point on the ground accurate to within a centimeter. You could hire a surveyor with a $50,000 gps to take you to the point. Guess what? If the surveyor wasn't told which datum (mathematical model of the earth's ellipsoid shape) to use for his measurements, you could be in the wrong location by a hundred yards, maybe much more. To make matters worse, there are dozens of datum to choose from, all different. Which one to use? The cacher's little secret, ha ha.

Don't like coordinates and want to use metes and bounds from a specific starting point instead? Say, that carved rock you found? Sounds bulletproof, eh? First thing you do is figure out which direction true north is and adjust your compass based on today's magnetic declination. Routine. You can look that info up online today, but it used to be that the declination had to be calculated by observation in years past. Routine, no problem. Where I live, the magnetic declination today is 9 degrees east of north. Away we go, let's say due north 500 feet. Wait a minute - what if the mapper was being clever and hid the goodies using a totally arbitrary declination of his own choosing to confuse you, say 18 degrees east of north, his little secret? If you set your compass to 9 instead of 18, which should be a no-brainer, you'd be off by 78 feet from the cacher's true location after your 500 foot march. Bummer.

Something to keep in mind: we are not smarter than those who preceded us. There are many, many ways to fool you with treasure maps.

Indeed....

The rock I posted is a section marker off the net from a survey outfit in Indiana. Or Illinois,or I- somewhere.

Triangulation once on a parcel ,with given monuments , ups the odds.
Tough without knowing what lines matter though.

 

[Texas Jay]

I wondered that too and then I read where they said that they had installed game and trail cams on their property due to all of the trespassers treasure hunting. Part of that story might be on the genealogy link ECS provided.

From what I've read, Brewer was either THE partner or One of his other partners that he had a falling out with. Let me know if you can't find the Gillespie sisters story and if you can't locate it, I'll try and find it for you.

Kace

Yes, Bob Brewer was the partner who Michael Griffith betrayed, according to Bob's and Warren Getler's book "Rebel Gold". The story is in there.
~Texas Jay

Here's a video that FOX 4 News out of Dallas did of the Gillespie sister's property in Oklahoma.
Videos - Knights of the Golden Circle

 

[franklin]

A very good article explaining the finance sources of the Confederacy, pre war, during, and after:
Confederate Finance and Supply
http://www.cilvilwarhome.com/confederatefinance.htm

The Confederacy was financed not so much by the KGC, but by seizing the New Orleans mint, Southern Banks, sale of bonds, Ladies jewelry for the Cause, and LOANS to be paid by cotton shipments.

ECS, Do you have a copy of the notes and letters of the Confederate Treasury? I do. There was a lot more involvement than what you have posted.

 

[ECS]

Yes, and the Union accounting of the remaining CSA assets after the surrender.
...and I posted the governments links that contained that information on either a KGC thread or the Swamp Gold thread- I don't remember which.

 

[Kace]

I missed that. What 'big KGC discovery' did Michael Griffith make in Oklahoma? I heard he found some stuff, but it was only KGC connected cause he said it was.

That's what I'm trying to find out...

If someone finds some coins, safe or other hoard of tangible valuables, How Do You Tell It's KGC and Not From Another Source?

Is there documentation? Instructions for it's intended use...?

Kace

 

[Kace]

What farm is that? Can you elaborate?

That's in SWMO...Nothing to do with Brewer, Griffith, Gillespie's or Oklahoma.

Kace

 

[Kace]

This passage is from an article written about the Gillespie Ranch...

 

[Kace]

News article where Bob Brewer discusses the "teacher" AKA Michael Griffith, who snuck back onto the Gillespie property and removed a WELLS FARGO strongbox "full of gold coins":
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-treasure5dec05-story.html

Has Anyone ever tried Rabbit Ears with a Silver Dollar riveted to them to use Dowsing for gold or silver?

Has anyone seen it done?

I've been around and participated in Dowsing for Water and a Gas Line....I know that works, but I've never heard of using Rabbit Ears with a Silver Dollar Riveted to them Until that article.

I read on here that a Digital Camera will locate gold also...Has anyone tried that?

Kace

 

[uglymailman]

Kace, the secret is to find those coins one at a time.
sdcfia- If the template is to be used on the 36 section/range/township parts of our country, and you have some way to figure out which corner to use as a starting point, do you also have a back sight? Were these made by surveyors? I don't know if someone in the mid 19th century who wasn't a surveyor/engineer knew the difference between true and magnetic North. When they wanted to go north they looked at their compass and went where it pointed in most cases. I worked for an outfit that relocated the sections corners in 158 sections in West Central MO. We found about 6% of the org. corner stones that had been set. Not all corners had stone markers, many were wooden posts. They were originally set between 1835 and 1845. I recall finding 3 stones when we dug the hole to set marker for that corner. They were 12-18" down. A lot were wiped out when roads were build down a section line. There were 3 or 4 Original Surveyors that were in the areas I worked. Only one put "hack" marks on a stone. One hack for each mile above the bottom of the township. One closed the last half mile on each section that closed to the East township line ONE LINK OFF. 5 sections, each last half mile one link off. My bet is he ran that last line in his tent. What I'm trying to say is I'd think you'd need to find the exact section or township the template fit to make it work. Not every section is exactly one mile by one mile. Each section in each township is how big the Original Surveyor say's it is. There are several sections in northern Saint Claire County,MO. that are a mile by a mile and a half. Accumulation of error. It is amazing how accurate those O.S.'ers were with the equipment they had. Good luck.