Mi-Wok (CA) Indians

[TerryC]

Actually Terry, the one her dad found was the first ashtray I made in pottery class. I was so ashamed of the final product I tossed it out on that ol' piece of property thinking it would never be found..............................

If you have MORE similar ash trays, I'll take them... no questions asked! Ha ha! I'm in CA. I'll look you up soon... and Istring. TTC

 

[rginn]

Cool post and very informative, TerryC. What is the rock they are formed in? Do you see any pattern in the way they are placed or are they just random?

 

[Drache]

Actually I think that those 'grain grinding' holes are a natural occuring phenomenon. When washed down by water a harder stone would settle into a natural depression and the continued grinding motion would form the hole. As one stone wore out another would fall in and replace it, and the process would continue.

You mean like the ones down at the lower Cariboo Falls? Below I've attached a few pics that I took MANY years ago when digital cameras were still fairly new.

Two of the "holes" down there are large enough to fit a small car into.....

 

[vibes]

Good site Vibes! It was educational!

I hope you snooped around the main page as well!

Tori

 

[Mental Granny]

A little I am oing back to it I love this whole post !

 

[Likely Guy]

Actually I think that those 'grain grinding' holes are a natural occuring phenomenon. When washed down by water a harder stone would settle into a natural depression and the continued grinding motion would form the hole. As one stone wore out another would fall in and replace it, and the process would continue.

You mean like the ones down at the lower Cariboo Falls? Below I've attached a few pics that I took MANY years ago when digital cameras were still fairly new.

Two of the "holes" down there are large enough to fit a small car into.....

Thanks Drache, that's saves me the hassle of sending you out there to take a picture! Too bad there's no scale reference in the pictures though.

 

[Drache]

Actually I think that those 'grain grinding' holes are a natural occuring phenomenon. When washed down by water a harder stone would settle into a natural depression and the continued grinding motion would form the hole. As one stone wore out another would fall in and replace it, and the process would continue.

You mean like the ones down at the lower Cariboo Falls? Below I've attached a few pics that I took MANY years ago when digital cameras were still fairly new.

Two of the "holes" down there are large enough to fit a small car into.....

Thanks Drache, that's saves me the hassle of sending you out there to take a picture! Too bad there's no scale reference in the pictures though.

The one with water I stuck my head all the way into it to cool off (so it's GOT to be a huge hole ) and the ones with multiple holes they range from fist size to head sized.

 

[TerryC]

Two more pics, adding 12 more holes, total, pictured. All are in the same size bracket and almost perfectly round. TTC

 

[TerryC]

Cool post and very informative, TerryC. What is the rock they are formed in? Do you see any pattern in the way they are placed or are they just random?

RGINN,
As to the type of rock, I have no clue. It is very hard and abundant in this region. They appear random. I went to the link Vibes' suggested and saw some very impressive patterns, but found no discernable pattern in the pics I took. It is against fed law to disturb or remove vegetation from these sites, on BLM land, so no patterns showed through the mosses. TTC TTC

 

[stefen]

There are four grinding rocks within a mile radius of our Idyllwild mountain home, each in Oak groves... several nearby rocks also contain hieroglyphics whose identification remains a mystery. Quite a common occurance in California.

 

[rginn]

Gracias, TerryC. It's probably an igneous formation. Sorry I'm not familiar with the country. I was curious as to the placement, as they might not be grinding basins at all, but some kind of markers. I've seen similar grinding basins in Texas and Oklahoma, but just not so many. Stefan, can you post pics of those hieroglyphics? I'm into that whole ancient explorers in America thing.

 

[vibes]

Very near the Collierville Power site, on Clark Flat, was an old Mi-Wok village. It must have been very large. Judy and I found at least 44 of these "grain grinding" holes in the bedrock, in a small area, at the Stanislaus River. There may be more. The site is less than a mile from the house.... straight down the mountain... as evidenced by the second pic, of me, almost to the site. We will be exploring more. TTC

Hi terry!

You think you haven't discovered a pattern with your cup-mark stone find...BUT...since you mentioned that you've found 44 of them, well, have you measured the distances between the ones you have stumbled on? ya know, the measurements between each rock position, just for fun? Why not? I think it might be a worthy expenditure of energy

 

[Drache]

If those holes are beside a river or where a river used to be then I don't think those holes weren't used for grinding grain or at least they weren't created by man. They are created by the current of water moving rocks around in a circle. Notice the two pictures I posted on what the holes will look like many many years from now. If the snow was gone I could take more recent pictures that look the exact same as those you posted.

 

[civil war hunter]

Some fish back then could have dug those holes, could have been a lake.

 

[TerryC]

If those holes are beside a river or where a river used to be then I don't think those holes weren't used for grinding grain or at least they weren't created by man. They are created by the current of water moving rocks around in a circle. Notice the two pictures I posted on what the holes will look like many many years from now. If the snow was gone I could take more recent pictures that look the exact same as those you posted.

Hello Drache and Vibes,
Thanks for your interest. The Mi wok activity in this area is well documented. But, Alas, there are only 12 individuals in CA that can still speak the language. They are old and trying to pass it on but few wish to listen. I am told by Rangers that in 1997 a particularly heavy snowmelt year brought a large amount of rocks and large boulders down the Stanislaus, building a new peninsula at the confluence of the river bend and the raceway. Yet the water was not high enough to moisten these holes which are, I estimate, 60 or 70 feet above the water. I will poke around further, as Vibes suggests, to see if a pattern exists. I have asked the Rangers at the Station in Avery if I can metal detect the National forest and I was told YES but I was again reminded NO removal of Indian artifacts!

 

[Drache]

If those holes are beside a river or where a river used to be then I don't think those holes weren't used for grinding grain or at least they weren't created by man. They are created by the current of water moving rocks around in a circle. Notice the two pictures I posted on what the holes will look like many many years from now. If the snow was gone I could take more recent pictures that look the exact same as those you posted.

Hello Drache and Vibes,
Thanks for your interest. The Mi wok activity in this area is well documented. But, Alas, there are only 12 individuals in CA that can still speak the language. They are old and trying to pass it on but few wish to listen. I am told by Rangers that in 1997 a particularly heavy snowmelt year brought a large amount of rocks and large boulders down the Stanislaus, building a new peninsula at the confluence of the river bend and the raceway. Yet the water was not high enough to moisten these holes which are, I estimate, 60 or 70 feet above the water. I will poke around further, as Vibes suggests, to see if a pattern exists. I have asked the Rangers at the Station in Avery if I can metal detect the National forest and I was told YES but I was again reminded NO removal of Indian artifacts!

Thanks for replying. That was one thing I didn't notice the was "water level". Granted they still could have been made thousands of years ago when water might have covered that area but yes it is certainly a mystery. So many of them is really weird.

 

[vibes]

Are any of these rocks on a fracture line/fault?

And Terry...way to go on the YES from the rangers I hope you find loads of cool stuff

Tori

 

[stefen]

Gracias, TerryC. It's probably an igneous formation. Sorry I'm not familiar with the country. I was curious as to the placement, as they might not be grinding basins at all, but some kind of markers. I've seen similar grinding basins in Texas and Oklahoma, but just not so many. Stefan, can you post pics of those hieroglyphics? I'm into that whole ancient explorers in America thing.

RGINN,

Here is a site showing Cahuilla Indian pictographs located in Idyllwild California... complimentary to this post

http://takwish.smugmug.com/gallery/1620058_FaWgr#78875057_rTWu5

In addition, I have added other pictures...kinda small, but you can get the idea of how many sites there are in this region and elsewhere in California (all within a mile radius of our home)

Just as a side comment, there are probably more Indian Reservations in California than the total number of Reservations of all other states combined. Most larger tribes are self sufficient and are not dependent on U. S. government support. In fact, many support the smaller rural tribes, and contribute to or totally fund local communities needs such as new schools, Fire Departments, libraries, housing, and the like.

 

[TerryC]

If those holes are beside a river or where a river used to be then I don't think those holes weren't used for grinding grain or at least they weren't created by man. They are created by the current of water moving rocks around in a circle. Notice the two pictures I posted on what the holes will look like many many years from now. If the snow was gone I could take more recent pictures that look the exact same as those you posted.

Here are some pics of holes taken today at the north fork of the Stanislaus, at about mile 5. The first pic shows several large ones across the river. The second shows a hole about the size of a bathtub. The third shows Laz after sliding in! All these rocks are as slippery as ice due to pollen and sand on them. It was hard to get him out of there! I have no doubt all of these were made by sand, water, and rock erosion. Neat!

 

[TimC]

I see Laz dug himself a hole he couldn't get out of (yuk, yuk). Terry see http://www.maptools.com
If Laz had a tail would it be tucked between his legs?

TimC