Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[South Sea mariner]

THANK YOU DON JOSE! I have been looking for this for a while, with no success.

Mal, does this look like the "Bountiful Harvest" of the Father Faraday yarn? If so, then it makes it almost a certainty that you did, in fact encounter the infamous Trio.

JB

Hello JB Not quite but about the same size and sail configuration.

But that said who really knows? Who ever they were played me like a violin. I think their real strength of them was by being anonymous and by being so ordinary that they floated under the noses authorities before the authorities realized they had or suspected they had been hoodwinked... As the only evidence they had was rumor and innuendo. Nothing to clutch at except shadows tantalizing pieces of what if? Trio if it was them to authorities they do not exist...

Although that might be a an official policy of convenience.

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hello SSM,

Some really good and interesting points there.

With gold, it is predicted that the next 'big' gold rushes will not take place on land but under the sea. Many groups and companies are already doing some major mining...

But as you state, "treasure" comes in many forms; if the conquistadors had looked at their newly acquired domains rather than through a precious metal looking-glass, if they'd controlled the supply and distribution of say, potatoes and tobacco, they would have earned far greater sums than they did by simply grubbing for gold and silver, and thus depreciating the price of this metals in Europe. Alas, not as exciting as a traditional 'hunt' but a major money spinner nonetheless.

There is indeed plenty of opportunities for one to carve themselves a niche, you simply need an opportunity which doesn't require large amounts of capital, can be done with the odd mistake/error being made (without jeopardising the whole operation) and one can closely monitor the project and take swift action where necessary. Me myself, I have made investments here in the U.K., which allow me to spend more time in pursuing my passion ('treasure-researching if you hadn't already guessed!), and there is nothing more satisfying than knowing my silly fascinations will not impact on my family's wellbeing or security in anyway.

IPUK

IPUK

Never a truer words. They say in California Gold rush more millionaires was made from the those who provided supplies to the miners and goods and services. It was the same in the Australian and Alaskan gold rushes. Some times the money is on the peripheral.

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

X-Rays do not " see inside " metals.

X-Ray Fluorescence Spectrometry is a surface composition analysis. It cannot penetrate beyond the immediate subsurface (~20 microns). It can be used to detect gold plating but is not strong enough to detect advanced hollowed out gold bars. Nor is Density a reliable test on cored/filled bars. Low cost tungsten is nearly the same density as gold. Copper, lead and other base metal alloys can duplicate the density of silver. Traditional non-destructive test methods by density and X-ray spectrometry are incapable of detecting fake bullion and bars with thick gold or silver plating.

Ultrasound is your best bet.

Ultrasonic tests measure a whole range of properties, one in particular being “Celerity”. Celerity is the velocity at which sound waves travel through the metal. The Celerity of every element is characteristic to that element and can vary greatly:

Silver: 3,650 meters
Gold: 3,240 meters
Tungsten: 5,174 meters (approx. 38% different from gold)
Platinum: 3,260 meters

Using an ultrasound test kit, you can easily calculate the distance that sound waves travel through gold bullion and silver bars. Simply by presetting the known sound velocity of the precious metal being tested, the instrument returns a distance which is then compared with the known thickness of the bullion or bar. True thickness is known by product specification, calipers or even a common ruler.

For example, a typical 10 oz gold bar that is 8mm in thickness would give a reading of approximately 8mm in an ultrasonics measurement. If it was a gold-plated tungsten bar, the ultrasonics measurement would read only 5.0 mm. This is because sound waves travel at a much faster velocity (see above) through tungsten therefore resulting in a much lower reading. Ultrasonics can also be used to detect hollow areas inside the bar.

If you're going to invest in gold and silver, invest in an ultrasonic test kit. There are some fairly inexpensive models on the market, and well worth the added expense.

Ditlihi

Some great stuff.

If I was going to invest in gold one should only deal with licensed gold traders who have too much to lose to be engaged in fraud. Those who work to the London gold standard an international brokered agreement on the Provence of gold, quality and integrity of the dealer. While the gold bars are all registered recorded a unique serial code. When a sale has taken place the owners of bars is recorded from who to so forth. While you will not get a cheap deal at least it is safer.

Mal

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hey TT,

Interesting that is, but I imagine that only the gullible or greedy would honestly believe that in today's world gold would be sold a lot cheaper than the spot price.


IPUK

You are right IPUK...but there could be shady organisations , companies, individuals and rogue regimes that could buy these kind of golds under spot price to resell it with normal price in non suspecting areas ....I recall there was once a scandal in one bank in Africa on the discovery of phony gold bars in huge amounts
TT

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

You are right IPUK...but there could be shady organisations , companies, individuals and rogue regimes that could buy these kind of golds under spot price to resell it with normal price in non suspecting areas ....I recall there was once a scandal in one bank in Africa on the discovery of phony gold bars in huge amounts
TT

This is so true, it hurts.
My wife inherited a ring, that was made locally, over 25 years before she inherited it, over 10 years ago.
It first sold for $3,500. She was thinking of cashing it in, a few years ago, so we took it to the original maker and had it cleaned and appraised, without mentioning selling it. The new appraisal was just shy of $5,000!

We took it to a well established jeweler, believing their TV ads promising top prices for gold and jewelry.

What we were offered, was an insult in the form of $325. About 10% of the gold value, not to mention the single large diamond...

So who was "reputable"?!?

#/80{>~

 

[Ditlihi]

Ditlihi

Some great stuff.

If I was going to invest in gold one should only deal with licensed gold traders who have too much to lose to be engaged in fraud. Those who work to the London gold standard an international brokered agreement on the Provence of gold, quality and integrity of the dealer. While the gold bars are all registered recorded a unique serial code. When a sale has taken place the owners of bars is recorded from who to so forth. While you will not get a cheap deal at least it is safer.

Mal

Indeed. If one doesn't mind a paper trail.

 

[audigger53]

If I were to "Invest" in gold, It would not be bars, but Coins. Canada Maple Leaf, and Krugerrand. 24 Kt. and one Oz. Ten to a Troy Pound. Easier to sell without having to carry a bar around.

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

If I were to "Invest" in gold, It would not be bars, but Coins. Canada Maple Leaf, and Krugerrand. 24 Kt. and one Oz. Ten to a Troy Pound. Easier to sell without having to carry a bar around.

I'm trying to do the same, with silver.
Poor man's gold....


One Troy oz.
.999 silver.

Not much, but it's a start...
#/;0{>~

 

[Real of Tayopa]

The sails were renewed at the start of hte voyage.Also it doesn't show the half nakd broads hanging from the yard arms. Hal

 

[Shortfinger]

Thanks Don Jose

Not quite as the hull was all black. And the sails looked new and a different figurehead.

but the sail configuration was of hermaphrodite brig same type on the vessel shown above.

Mal.

Well, that isn't quite a smoking gun, but.....Don Jose has cleared up the sails in a later post, and a little paint could take care of the hull color. So, the only thing at issue is the figurehead. I'm not sure how easy it is to change a figurehead, but I suspect it is not impossible...... I really doubt that there are very many similar vessels prowling the Pacific. And, as we know, Kanacki has semi-retired the Drumbeat, in favor of his new boat, Oceans Child as I recall.

JB

 

[audigger53]

I have 2 one Oz. bars(?) at .999 fine bought back in 82 for $5 each. Also some coins,, dimes, half dollar, and one other that was given to me. I don't think of them as money as the coins will not sell for the "Book" amount. I learned that when I was 19 and had to sell some of my penny collection for eating money. That was before I found out the there are a lot of people that think they can shoot pool better than others. Usally they loose. The small percentage than could shoot better than I could then, made small mistakes and let me know it was a set up. I didn't make much, but I ate regular. So many shooters don't understand bottom English or position for the next shot. 50% think they can shoot and the next 25% take their money. Of the last 25%, the 75% to 85% free those below them of their money. From 85% to 93% is the next group, and from 93% up, it is who is "hot" that night. I watched a Nine Ball tourney and thought how many of them would loose to sharks because they would not take combos on the Nine. They could shoot good for rotation, but not for table money. IMO I never had a sponsor/backer and then went to Boot Camp for 12 weeks. When I got out my position was of 6 inches for the next shot instead of 1 inch or less and you can't make money that way, so I hung up my stick as the saying goes.

 

[Shortfinger]

I have 2 one Oz. bars(?) at .999 fine bought back in 82 for $5 each. Also some coins,, dimes, half dollar, and one other that was given to me. I don't think of them as money as the coins will not sell for the "Book" amount. I learned that when I was 19 and had to sell some of my penny collection for eating money. That was before I found out the there are a lot of people that think they can shoot pool better than others. Usally they loose. The small percentage than could shoot better than I could then, made small mistakes and let me know it was a set up. I didn't make much, but I ate regular. So many shooters don't understand bottom English or position for the next shot. 50% think they can shoot and the next 25% take their money. Of the last 25%, the 75% to 85% free those below them of their money. From 85% to 93% is the next group, and from 93% up, it is who is "hot" that night. I watched a Nine Ball tourney and thought how many of them would loose to sharks because they would not take combos on the Nine. They could shoot good for rotation, but not for table money. IMO I never had a sponsor/backer and then went to Boot Camp for 12 weeks. When I got out my position was of 6 inches for the next shot instead of 1 inch or less and you can't make money that way, so I hung up my stick as the saying goes.

I was friends with one of the top 7%, I suspect, when I was in the Navy. He made a lot of money playing pool. He would, as you said, make small mistakes to set people up, then when he had a substantial amount on the table, would run the table.

JB

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

When I was a young man.....

I had a pool hall/rec. center and had many regulars that were very good at
" the game". I held many tournaments with prizes, never cash. My dad was a city deputy marshal, and kept an eye on my regulars.

I believe that I learned more about reading people from those years, than all of the rest of my life.

In those days, everyone had a CB radio, myself included. Dad would monitor channel 11. Any time tempers or possible clashes looked imminent I would make my way to the counter and key the mic for about 5 seconds and Dad would just show up and some folks would just " hang up their sticks" and walk away... I don't know if any of them ever figured it out.

Most of my regulars knew I had the CB, because I would get called out to make an ambulance run. I went on almost every run because there was only one person contracted to work days and one for nights. I was too young to drive the county owned ambulance, but old enough to work in the blood and guts in the back.

Even if my rec. center was empty, I could leave my change apron on the first pool table and someone would know to put it on and play a few games on the house. I never lost a dime in two years doing that, probably more than a hundred times.

I miss those days. Simpler times...

#/;0)~

 

[audigger53]

I was friends with one of the top 7%, I suspect, when I was in the Navy. He made a lot of money playing pool. He would, as you said, make small mistakes to set people up, then when he had a substantial amount on the table, would run the table.

JB

Well I have seen those over 93% and watched one shoot right handed with a heavy watch on his right wrist. A friend walked up to me and watch him shoot for about 10 minutes. My Friend then said, "I think I'll shoot him for $20."
"Just give me the $20 and you won't be embarrassed."
"What do you mean? He has shot nothing but 'String shots'" (Straight shots from cue to ball to pocket.)
About that time a guy came in and asked to play him Straight Pool. $10 a ball. Can I shoot left handed? Sure.
He then lagged for the break, made it to within 1/8 of an inch and then called the ball on the break.
He then ran 3 racks calling each ball. The other guy never got a shot, he put up his cue and told him "here I'm short $50, be back in a 1/2 hour with it."
That is what I call the upper 7%. His position was so good shooting Right handed with a swinging weight on it that each next shot was less than 3 feet cue to ball to pocket.
I don't know what happened to him, that was in 1969. Killed or something happened to him. He had a backer and was going to go on the Pro Tour. Out of N.O. Better than I was, but I knew that watching him. My friend didn't until he shot the other guy and ran 5 racks of call ball.

 

[South Sea mariner]

Well I have seen those over 93% and watched one shoot right handed with a heavy watch on his right wrist. A friend walked up to me and watch him shoot for about 10 minutes. My Friend then said, "I think I'll shoot him for $20."
"Just give me the $20 and you won't be embarrassed."
"What do you mean? He has shot nothing but 'String shots'" (Straight shots from cue to ball to pocket.)
About that time a guy came in and asked to play him Straight Pool. $10 a ball. Can I shoot left handed? Sure.
He then lagged for the break, made it to within 1/8 of an inch and then called the ball on the break.
He then ran 3 racks calling each ball. The other guy never got a shot, he put up his cue and told him "here I'm short $50, be back in a 1/2 hour with it."
That is what I call the upper 7%. His position was so good shooting Right handed with a swinging weight on it that each next shot was less than 3 feet cue to ball to pocket.
I don't know what happened to him, that was in 1969. Killed or something happened to him. He had a backer and was going to go on the Pro Tour. Out of N.O. Better than I was, but I knew that watching him. My friend didn't until he shot the other guy and ran 5 racks of call ball.

great story

I love playing pool but one thing I discovered the rules change from place to place, country to country. Not quite sure how you play in the united states? Mainly across the pacific 8 ball large of small. Your are either large 9-15 or small 1- 7 sink your selection then finish off with the black 8. sink the black in the game its game over. Some places you can shoot back from the D, other places you cannot. free shot if the opposition player has down a foul shot by sinking the cue ball, hinting the opposition players balls first or missing all entirely. Foul shot on black 8 2 shots or game if cue ball sunk. Polynesians have a strange local rule if the cue ball is sunk the next player can put the cue ball anywhere on the table.

Got pretty good but not brilliant with it and now suffered a little as eyes as not as good. still enjoy a game when home. Yet the best player I ever seen was an American feller. He had grown up from young kid as his dad owned a pool hall. he had been playing before he was tall enough to see over the table. Yet he was in 60's or 70's when I saw him. He no longer played competition. But got paid to travel the world doing trick shots. He was amazing I saw him hit a cue ball from one table to another pool table sinking six balls. one each in the 6 in the pockets. Absolutely brilliant. Sadly I could not remember the guys name

I wonder if any of you guys know?

Mal

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hello JB Not quite but about the same size and sail configuration.

But that said who really knows? Who ever they were played me like a violin. I think their real strength of them was by being anonymous and by being so ordinary that they floated under the noses authorities before the authorities realized they had or suspected they had been hoodwinked... As the only evidence they had was rumor and innuendo. Nothing to clutch at except shadows tantalizing pieces of what if? Trio if it was them to authorities they do not exist...

Although that might be a an official policy of convenience.

Mal

If it really was "The Trio" that you encountered, SSM, I very much doubt they would have ever used their 'personal' transportation if it meant any possibility of attracting unwanted attention. Perhaps therein lies the genius; whilst the authorities are looking for unknown shipping carrying out surreptitious trips, the Drumboat just waltzed in there and did the business...

I will always remember the wily old pirate talking about Hard Luck - "he is such a chap that one could walk or stroll right past him in the street and never give him a second glance as he blends in so well...", I would say that in itself is an art-form in the world of "treasure-research" as giving it the Billy-Big-Time is what brings unnecessary hassle, attention, envy and bad thoughts to mind.

Once you've got "Mission Completed", you retire to your yacht (Hard Luck not me!) and you carry-on enjoying yourself until the next one...

Oh, and there is nothing to worry about in the sense of getting one 'over' the authorities; working for many years in government, the rules are there to control people and provide power to those in charge. I used to labour under the naivety that they were there to protect the vulnerable and support those in need of assistance. Perhaps I'm getting cynical as I grow older..., my experience has taught me that many will use all the resources at their disposal to get their "result" against those they perceive as not being "worthy". We all have our biases and if we get the opportunity to "settle a score", very few would decline the option..., in my working history, I have come across many colleagues both past and present, that can and will make life difficult for those that have earned their ire even if they really do not have any grounds in basing their opinion(s) on. As the great American ex-president and true statesman Abraham Lincoln once said "To test a person's character, give them power." It is virtually impossible for the "small guy" to ever hope to challenge or argue with authorities/governments if they have a gripe against you.

So if the likes of the infamous Trio are sticking-up and giving a poke in the eye to the elite, power to the people I say!!

IPUK

 

[audigger53]

Yeah, "House Rules" will drive you crazy if you don't ask first. That is why the game I love best is Snooker. Smaller balls, smaller deeper pockets and 2 sizes of Bridges. 8 foot by 14 feet. first shot each turn is to make a Red, then shoot any numbered ball on the table, then again a red. when all reds are gone, you shoot rotation. Scratch or hit the wrong ball -7 points. Best game ever I played, I won, -21 to -40. LOL If you can't make a ball, leave the cue where he can't hit a red. If a numbered ball drops with reds still on the table it is spotted again. Hard game but fun, not for money of course, for me. Learned it in Malta with Her Magesty's Fourth Royal Flushenieers (I know the spelling is off) . They were Welshmen. I learned that if asked "what are you drink'n?" And you say "Bourbon" They then say, "Whiskey?". If you say yes, anything brown will come your way. They drink Beer/Stout/Ale/Guinness/Black&Tan, but NOT Whiskey. LOL

 

[Interested Party in UK]

You are right IPUK...but there could be shady organisations , companies, individuals and rogue regimes that could buy these kind of golds under spot price to resell it with normal price in non suspecting areas ....I recall there was once a scandal in one bank in Africa on the discovery of phony gold bars in huge amounts
TT

TT,

Very true matey.

For every upfront individual/organisation, there is many, many dubious and shady so-and-so's willing to defraud, con, rob, thieve and appropriate the goodies of others. In my limited knowledge and experience in dealing with gold, reputation is something that goes a long way as most transactions are done based on "word of mouth" and recommendation.

As the area of precious metals and gems is so profitable and important to many countries/companies/people, it is very discreet, closed and confidential to those wanting to "get in".

I have a small story for you from here in the UK about how it can and does affect rational thinking and action.

Some years ago and I might have a few details mixed-up but the general gist is absolutely right. A construction company in the UK wanted to raise some funds to expand their portfolio of land, property and rental income. The owner was a somewhat dubious character and wanted credit and borrowing facilities without the rigmarole of going through the correct channels. He claimed that he'd 'bought' a ruby worth about £11,000,000 (approx. $15M) from a South African 'businessman' and had it valued in Italy for its "true worth." The 'gem' was given a fancy name (the 'Star' or something similar) and was included in the balance sheet of the company's accounts to try and underpin its 'assets'. Some greedy financial organisations actually lent to this company simply going on what it claimed it had. Well, inevitably, as any company run by a shyster and chancer usually happens, it went t*ts-up and was found to be insolvent with debts of about £40,000,000 - £50M.

The so-called 'gem' was sold by administrators who wound-up the company, for £8,000...

Sometimes, when one 'sees' the magic words "gold", "gems", "millions" and suchlike, it is easy to become less-guarded and rational.


IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT,

Very true matey.

For every upfront individual/organisation, there is many, many dubious and shady so-and-so's willing to defraud, con, rob, thieve and appropriate the goodies of others. In my limited knowledge and experience in dealing with gold, reputation is something that goes a long way as most transactions are done based on "word of mouth" and recommendation.

As the area of precious metals and gems is so profitable and important to many countries/companies/people, it is very discreet, closed and confidential to those wanting to "get in".

I have a small story for you from here in the UK about how it can and does affect rational thinking and action.

Some years ago and I might have a few details mixed-up but the general gist is absolutely right. A construction company in the UK wanted to raise some funds to expand their portfolio of land, property and rental income. The owner was a somewhat dubious character and wanted credit and borrowing facilities without the rigmarole of going through the correct channels. He claimed that he'd 'bought' a ruby worth about £11,000,000 (approx. $15M) from a South African 'businessman' and had it valued in Italy for its "true worth." The 'gem' was given a fancy name (the 'Star' or something similar) and was included in the balance sheet of the company's accounts to try and underpin its 'assets'. Some greedy financial organisations actually lent to this company simply going on what it claimed it had. Well, inevitably, as any company run by a shyster and chancer usually happens, it went t*ts-up and was found to be insolvent with debts of about £40,000,000 - £50M.

The so-called 'gem' was sold by administrators who wound-up the company, for £8,000...

Sometimes, when one 'sees' the magic words "gold", "gems", "millions" and suchlike, it is easy to become less-guarded and rational.


IPUK

Quite a story IPUK....one has to really be careful with whom to work especially in cases of huge transactions....

p.s. don't you feel trying to study a bit about the antiques world to diversify your "treasure research" ..and perhaps try some urban searches for rare items besides the major mainstream treasure hunting genre?your quick potential to acquire knowledge will probably pay off in this subgenre of TH as well ...also UK has a lot of potential in this field and you can even take courses to pace the learning curve...as that little "extra knowledge" one may have can mean gaining or loosing big fortune in the antique world...it is not uncommon to hear some eagle eyed people bidding on an antique item that everybody including the auction house thought less off..but that bit of extra knowledge may help one to identify such valuable "sleeper" antique items and buy them for trivial money to resell them for a fortune...I am in the kindergarten stage just reading and visiting hence can not say authoritatively..
Just a tip..
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Quite a story IPUK....one has to really be careful with whom to work especially in cases of huge transactions....

p.s. don't you feel trying to study a bit about the antiques world to diversify your "treasure research" ..and perhaps try some urban searches for rare items besides the major mainstream treasure hunting genre?your quick potential to acquire knowledge will probably pay off in this subgenre of TH as well ...also UK has a lot of potential in this field and you can even take courses to pace the learning curve...as that little "extra knowledge" one may have can mean gaining or loosing big fortune in the antique world...it is not uncommon to hear some eagle eyed people bidding on an antique item that everybody including the auction house thought less off..but that bit of extra knowledge may help one to identify such valuable "sleeper" antique items and buy them for trivial money to resell them for a fortune...I am in the kindergarten stage just reading and visiting hence can not say authoritatively..
Just a tip..
TT

Many thanks for the vote of confidence, TT.



I tried the antiques angle many years ago. It is a fine line between a "real" piece and an imitation piece. Unfortunately it would be very hard for me to dedicate the time necessary to devote to learning the nuances of this area and to do the travelling necessary to visit the markets, fairs and auctions.

Funnily enough some years ago when the Olympics were being held in London, a friend of mine was doing the security for some of the national teams taking part, at their accommodation venues. I suggested that as he was very senior in the company awarded the contract, we should initiate contact with the likely stars who would shine...

Long story short, he managed to get various items from some of the athletes taking place and sell them for big bucks through sporting memorabilia specialists. He made a large profit on a pair Usain Bolt's running shoes.

Needless to say we don't really speak that often anymore...


IPUK