Need Help ID of old Rifle

Bigcypresshunter

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It doesn't seem to have any identification or serial numbers. I was told its a ladies rifle. Its a cool lightweight cap and ball type muzzleloader. I believe it to be authentic. It might be .22 caliber or .25. Check out the hammer and nipple on the bottom. The only marking I see is hand stamped "A.STORY VT."


Any idea what this is? Help needed from the antique gun people. Thanks

pictures loading very slow and having problems they are so big




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That weird thing on top that should be a sight also appears to double as a way to create a spark. It appears to push down on a flint thats embedded into the stock.. Very odd.

View attachment 1727968
 

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Looks like a repo
 

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Looks like a repo

Repro? Did they make repros of this model? Because it was 50 years in storage I doubt it but anything is possible. But I would have too see proof of course. Im still trying to find this model.

Im keeping an open mind because I have no idea, but it looks nice! The craftsmanship is amazing!
 

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If its a reproduction, I certainly want to know. No hard feelings whatsoever. I want the correct ID nothing less will be accepted lol.

Here are a few more pics. Its hand stamped A.STORY VT. I have the nipple soaking so i can remove it, inspect inside and and get it to fire. The trigger mechanism seems functional.

Im looking for another example of this model and dates of manufacture. thanks

20190629_193544.webp 20190629_193634.webp
 

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Very NICE Find! Kroil penetrating oil is the best that i have ever used. Good luck on getting you desired info.
 

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Ok it looks as if some gun company owned the gun rights of H & A and manufactured underhammer reproductions stamped with Hopkins and Allen Arms in the late 1950s or 1960s! But nowhere on my rifle does it say H & A or Hopkins and Allen Arms but i may have to look under the rust. And it doesnt match my rifle.

PICT0387-1.webphttps://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/h-a-underhammer.109387/

I need to ID my model
 

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Just a quick note for ya, the rifle could have been de-farbed. Which is when any non period accurate markings are removed. A lot of outfits that do weapons for Civil War reenactors do this to make them accurate in appearance.

If you need parts here are two good companies to deal with and find parts.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com

https://www.dixiegunworks.com
 

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I am tired of people posting "REPRO" when they don't know what they are talking about.

IF that is a reproduction, it must be one of a kind and probably more rare than the original Story rifles. And yes I do know something about guns before someone jumps on me for that.

Stop being so shocked at the sight of a rifle that has been well cared for and looks "too new" to be the real thing. Maybe you should visit a quality gun shop sometime and ask to see the FINE guns.
Oroblanco

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

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That weird thing on top that should be a sight also appears to double as a way to create a spark. It appears to push down on a flint thats embedded into the stock.. Very odd.

View attachment 1727968

Invalid attachment comes up when clicking on your link...

I don't own ,or recall looking over a buggy rifle or similar underhammer.
Been around a couple .
Never heard of flint mounted where a thumb piece might go. Getting such an arrangement to spark....And why, might not make for a good design.(?)

It's in your possession.
I'd squirm about changing it's condition till value is known. And the markets interest in condition. Which I'll keep repeating to myself..

Transmission fluid makes a good penetrating oil. Keep it from wetting any wood. Mixing it half and half with acetone (found in many nail polish removers) makes it even better.
A nipple wrench properly sized and a millimeter at a time back and forth can reduce stripping a nipple out.
If clear , tight ,and not rusted through near I would not worry about removing it.

The bore is another story. And again the caution of messing with the rifles condition till collector value is known. And potential buyers desires of condition...
Sorry , just sayin...And not saying to do what follows...

Fine steel wool and oil ,or rubbing compound with fine steel wool on a proper rod jag can smooth a bore. No need for a mirror finish.
A bore is like a cast iron skillet , if you understand their pores and seasoning. Just feel for bad spots while removing heavy rust if any.
Always use a muzzle guard. Scraping the side of the muzzle can wreck a barrel. Some can be corrected by an experienced smith , but avoid it in the first place.

With the bore clear and no rough snag points in it a lubed patch can be run down it.
If nipple is clear and hammer is off it (a fine piece of piano wire can be used for a pick if nipple is not clear , expect it's flash hole to be smaller at the bottom. Though not all are/were. So a smaller hole than the top of the nipple can be expected....You'll hear air hiss out of it.

Hammer staying at half cock when trigger is depressed is modern proper condition. Worn ,out of spec or damaged locks can drop the hammer at halfcock. (Not good.)
Needless to say , lock has to securely "latch" at full cock too between tumbler and sear..

A gunsmith familiar with such an arm looking it over might help. (No offense meant , you do know some arms.)

Measuring barrel to check for bulges would compliment "feeling" for a crud ring or bulge if/when the bore is smooth enough to run a lubed patch up and down.
Not uncommon to have a barrel tapered from rear to front. Other shaped existed too , but a small area of greater than surrounding diameters could be an issue.

Neat rifle..Congrats!
 

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Just a quick note for ya, the rifle could have been de-farbed. Which is when any non period accurate markings are removed. A lot of outfits that do weapons for Civil War reenactors do this to make them accurate in appearance.

If you need parts here are two good companies to deal with and find parts.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com

https://www.dixiegunworks.com

No missing parts that I can determine unless a ramrod came with it but there is nowhere to fasten a ramrod. I doubt its a reproduction its too rare a piece. Even if it is a 60s repro it would have value. At this point its an unidentified underhammer. Thanks for the thought I will keep it in mind. There could easily be a serial number under this rust.

Im pretty confident it has been untouched in storage for 50 years possibly before reenactments became passionate. I also obtained another gun from the same storage, hoping for a third rifle, that I didnt post appears authentic with marking, numbers etc..
 

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Invalid attachment comes up when clicking on your link...

I don't own ,or recall looking over a buggy rifle or similar underhammer.
Been around a couple .
Never heard of flint mounted where a thumb piece might go. Getting such an arrangement to spark....And why, might not make for a good design.(?)
I may be wrong about the sparker. Its actually a peep sight. That flexible metal bar thing has a tiny hole that would sit close to the eye to be used as a peep sight. But what is that thing underneath (1)? It looks like a roller is missing like on a cigarette lighter and when pushed down it grazes something embedded in the stock (2) that I thought might be a flint lol. Whatever it is it left scratch marks in the wood. pic coming...

What is that?
20190629_193616flint.webp20190629_174132.webp 20190629_232336 arrow1.webp
 

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Transmission fluid and kerosene works wonders when working on old guns.

If you can take some detailed photos of all the markings, detailed pictures of the cock (hammer), frizzen, lockplate etc. Look under the buttplate, barrel channel of the stock for markings. IF you want to, you can email the photos to me at........

FFuries@comcast.net

I'm a member of several gun forums and I can post the pictures and link the posts back to this post. That way you can get more eyes and information on the weapon from gun people. In the mean time I'll do some checking and see what I can come up with.

Could very well be an original rifle, or an old copy of it. I can't tell for sure, so I won't say one way or another. I've got an 1863 pattern 1853 Enfield converted from muzzleloader to breech loader (Snider-Enfield) that looks a lot rougher than this, then again I've got an 1879 M69/71 Swiss Vetterli that looks almost new. So you never know, sometimes it's hard to tell when you aren't holding it in your hands what is an original or and old copy.
 

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After some reading I just can't see someone making a repro rifle like this. Enfields, Springfields etc sure. But this I just don't see it. Your sight is missing the post. See below link to an auction with the post on the bottom of the sight.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/51526673_asa-story-underhammer-rifle-38-cal

Another link.

http://underhammers.blogspot.com/2008/04/hilliard-target-rifle.html?m=1

A quote from it, with some interesting information.

"A noted maker of fine underhammer pistols and rifles was David H. Hilliard of Cornish,*New Hampshire. The Hilliard design bears a striking resemblance and similarity to the work of Nicanor Kendall, which bears similarity to the work of Asa Story. Because these men were contemporaries living almost within spitting distance of each other, one has to wonder who was copying whom!

It is not uncommon to find similarities in muzzleloading firearms coming out of a particular geographical area as it was the practice of an apprentice, once on his own, to replicate the designs and methods of the master from whom he learned the craft. And that is exactly why we find the similarities in the Story, Kendall, and Hilliard designs."

So sight post/prop/stand, ramrod are MIA, anything else missing.

I'm seeing prices between $700.00 and $1500.00 for Asa Story underhammer rifles. As long as you do a proper cleaning (IE don't go overboard, clean only as needed, oil the metal etc), replace the missing parts with original parts. Might take time to find them, you'll have a nice example of something that seems hard to find.

ETA: Per your post, I don't appear there was a way to attach a ramrod, interesting. I'll keep looking for more information.
 

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