North East Florida Treasure....Please help me identify these coins...

[AdamBuchanan]

Hello, a few days ago, I hunted an old camp in North Florida , in past hunts I've found silver quarters, silver dimes, and rings due to the high usage of the camp .. I hit an area in which I dug five coins in which I know are old however cannot date them.. I went back today with my dad .. he found 9 more of these type coins in which we have no idea how old they are.. Here are the five from the first hunt a few days ago..there are single photos of the best coins that my dad found today.. I hunt with the PRL whites, my dad uses the Whites Eagle SL II, any and all help would be great..

 

[timekiller]

Cru,I'm sure the poster appreciates the help you guy's offer on these type finds.Not speaking for him but I would if I'd found them.Good help from over the Pond
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[trixie charger]

Eric, I for a long time have believe that Vikings "discovered the Americas" or at least the first "White" culture. As for the Columbus train of thought, for me it seems more likely. Timekiller that could be a button?. My paw paw, lol doesn't remember anything on the backs as attachment points. But anything is possible.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Dixie Trixie

Well the Viking discovery approx half a century b4 CC is proven. Because of the way they did it (via Iceland, Greenland, etc) I doubt any other cultures could have sailed there prior to that. To the Vikings, ancient coins (spoils of war and booty, would have had value as trade items). By the time of Columbus, Roman coins would probably be difficult to come by and more of a curiosity than a trade staple. From what I recall I don't think CC was in North America proper, but maybe someone here can set the record straight on that. Best, Erik

 

[Mackaydon]

Suggestion:
For those of you wishing to continue a conversation regarding who discovered America, can you create a separate thread and leave this one to those who are attempting to ID-ing Adam's coins?
Don.....

 

[CRUSADER]

Suggestion:
For those of you wishing to continue a conversation regarding who discovered America, can you create a separate thread and leave this one to those who are attempting to ID-ing Adam's coins?
Don.....

It is a little confusing,

however it would also be useful to have the coins numbered 1a 1b, 2a 2b etc (this is for future reference, & I hope the poster has the required info to label them up).

 

[Silver Searcher]

Suggestion:
For those of you wishing to continue a conversation regarding who discovered America, can you create a separate thread and leave this one to those who are attempting to ID-ing Adam's coins?
Don.....

I think the two go hand in hand Don :P these Roman Coins keep popping up, and it's a bit of a mystery, bit like the ID I think for the most part, the Id's are there abouts

SS

 

[kc10bull]

Hey Crusader,

Thank you for the Id on those coins. One day soon I will post some of mine that I'm still trying to id.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Don, it wasn't so much a discussion of who discovered America per se, but as to how ancient coins could have gotten to the Americas, assuming they were not all modern drops. As SS said, I think speculation as to how they got there goes hand in hand with what is on them. Do we have a definitive answer as to whether they are real or fake?

Suggestion:
For those of you wishing to continue a conversation regarding who discovered America, can you create a separate thread and leave this one to those who are attempting to ID-ing Adam's coins?
Don.....

 

[Mackaydon]

Eric,

I don't know anyone who can declare a coin REAL from a picture in the absence of one or more tests with the coin; it is much easier to declare a coin NOT REAL.

As it has been expressed elsewhere, "anyone that has spent time cleaning ancient coins, or digging through dealer's "junk boxes" at coin shows has come across hundreds (maybe even thousands) of these humble coins, but many toss them aside, thinking, perhaps, that they are not as worthy of study as the more "glamourous" coins...".

Adam's group of coins may be a 'pocket spill' from a 'junk box' accumulation; no way of telling.

As to ID-ing the coins, CRU has ID-ed #3 (image 6-1) as originating in the Constantine era; and he uses the phrase GLORIA EXERCITVS. Cru, one of the most knowledgable on this list, knows that Gloria Exercitvs describes only the general image on the coin's reverse. The phrase means "Glory of the Army" and there are enough differences in the various devices on this image to constitute an interesting area of study.

Constantine knew the value of keeping good relations with his army. Some incentives were increased pay, land grants, bonuses (and bribes), reduction in required length of service and.........praising his army on his coinage; ergo: GLORIA EXERCITVS.

Some of the image variations include:
A. Two soldiers with one standard, and either 'M' 'X' or 'Y' in the standard
B. Two soldiers, one stadard with "Chi-Rho'
C. Two soldiers, two standards, circles with dots
D. Two soldiers, two standards, wreath between standards.
E. etc.

The initials in the exergue, below the "GE" scene, abbreviate the name and location of where the coin was minted. Knowing those letters might also assist in narrowing down the date the coin was issued.
Don.....

 

[AdamBuchanan]

Guys and Gals, My dad and I appreciate all the input on the coins.. I'm a fireman on shift and wont be off till Friday to repost all the coins front and back pictures of them all , my wife may help my dad on Thursday with the photos and the uploading, the information is great that has been provided so far.. By far we are just as curious on how the coins got here and can just say, this is exactly why we hunt for the unknown of whats going to be dug.. by far never expected to locate coins as these, but again.. THANK YOU ALL for the information and the good conversation. Bare with us and give us a day or two and we will post these in a more organized manor...

 

[Silver Searcher]

Eric,

I don't know anyone who can declare a coin REAL from a picture in the absence of one or more tests with the coin; it is much easier to declare a coin NOT REAL.

As it has been expressed elsewhere, "anyone that has spent time cleaning ancient coins, or digging through dealer's "junk boxes" at coin shows has come across hundreds (maybe even thousands) of these humble coins, but many toss them aside, thinking, perhaps, that they are not as worthy of study as the more "glamourous" coins...".

Adam's group of coins may be a 'pocket spill' from a 'junk box' accumulation; no way of telling.

As to ID-ing the coins, CRU has ID-ed #3 (image 6-1) as originating in the Constantine era; and he uses the phrase GLORIA EXERCITVS. Cru, one of the most knowledgable on this list, knows that Gloria Exercitvs describes only the general image on the coin's reverse. The phrase means "Glory of the Army" and there are enough differences in the various devices on this image to constitute an interesting area of study.

Constantine knew the value of keeping good relations with his army. Some incentives were increased pay, land grants, bonuses (and bribes), reduction in required length of service and.........praising his army on his coinage; ergo: GLORIA EXERCITVS.

Some of the image variations include:
A. Two soldiers with one standard, and either 'M' 'X' or 'Y' in the standard
B. Two soldiers, one stadard with "Chi-Rho'
C. Two soldiers, two standards, circles with dots
D. Two soldiers, two standards, wreath between standards.
E. etc.

The initials in the exergue, below the "GE" scene, abbreviate the name and location of where the coin was minted. Knowing those letters might also assist in narrowing down the date the coin was issued.
Don.....

Anybody on this site can Id coins...if they have plenty of time, the information is on http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/index.html which has been posted on many occasions, as I said earlier there are lots of different rulers they could have been, lots of reverses very similar, some people just don't have the time to go through everone, like some.

I posted my reply from the top of my head, I didn't spend hours on websites, looking for the exact ID of a coin, that have very poor detail

And as for declaring a coin real from a picture, well we all know that some people on here do it all the time

And I don't see a radiate Head on the first coin either, looks like a bear head right to me , with out legends visible it's very hard

The second Coins Overse image is very poor, with no visible legend, Victory advancing left also appears on the reverse of Constantine11, and Constans ....Constantine11 Constans and Valentinian have similar portraites, I'm not trying to be funny, it's just that with out the legends it's very hard

SS

 

[CRUSADER]

Eric,

I don't know anyone who can declare a coin REAL from a picture in the absence of one or more tests with the coin; it is much easier to declare a coin NOT REAL.

As it has been expressed elsewhere, "anyone that has spent time cleaning ancient coins, or digging through dealer's "junk boxes" at coin shows has come across hundreds (maybe even thousands) of these humble coins, but many toss them aside, thinking, perhaps, that they are not as worthy of study as the more "glamourous" coins...".

Adam's group of coins may be a 'pocket spill' from a 'junk box' accumulation; no way of telling.

As to ID-ing the coins, CRU has ID-ed #3 (image 6-1) as originating in the Constantine era; and he uses the phrase GLORIA EXERCITVS. Cru, one of the most knowledgable on this list, knows that Gloria Exercitvs describes only the general image on the coin's reverse. The phrase means "Glory of the Army" and there are enough differences in the various devices on this image to constitute an interesting area of study.

Constantine knew the value of keeping good relations with his army. Some incentives were increased pay, land grants, bonuses (and bribes), reduction in required length of service and.........praising his army on his coinage; ergo: GLORIA EXERCITVS.

Some of the image variations include:
A. Two soldiers with one standard, and either 'M' 'X' or 'Y' in the standard
B. Two soldiers, one stadard with "Chi-Rho'
C. Two soldiers, two standards, circles with dots
D. Two soldiers, two standards, wreath between standards.
E. etc.

The initials in the exergue, below the "GE" scene, abbreviate the name and location of where the coin was minted. Knowing those letters might also assist in narrowing down the date the coin was issued.
Don.....

Anybody on this site can Id coins...if they have plenty of time, the information is on http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/index.html which has been posted on many occasions, as I said earlier there are lots of different rulers they could have been, lots of reverses very similar, some people just don't have the time to go through everone, like some.

I posted my reply from the top of my head, I didn't spend hours on websites, looking for the exact ID of a coin, that have very poor detail

And as for declaring a coin real from a picture, well we all know that some people on here do it all the time

And I don't see a radiate Head on the first coin either, looks like a bear head right to me , with out legends visible it's very hard

The second Coins Overse image is very poor, with no visible legend, Victory advancing left also appears on the reverse of Constantine11, and Constans ....Constantine11 Constans and Valentinian have similar portraites, I'm not trying to be funny, it's just that with out the legends it's very hard

SS

Your right the first one is not radiate but the ruler seems most likely.

The 2nd coin, if you have looked at enough shows the DN VAL quite clear but you need to have handled enough to see it.

I spent very little time on this & had I passed it to my Dad he would have a more definate answer, as has has the thousands of recorded records & the detailed books, but weights,sizes & die axis & many over variants would help. We could easily pin these down better with more time. It was a quick stab like your effort. (I think you think I spend time on google, its in my head ) Of course remembering all I try to, means I make mistakes all the time, quite willing to except that, are you?

THEY ARE REAL. (its that people who don't think or know whether these are real, from a picture, are discussing how they got there!)

 

[CRUSADER]

Eric,

I don't know anyone who can declare a coin REAL from a picture in the absence of one or more tests with the coin; it is much easier to declare a coin NOT REAL.

As it has been expressed elsewhere, "anyone that has spent time cleaning ancient coins, or digging through dealer's "junk boxes" at coin shows has come across hundreds (maybe even thousands) of these humble coins, but many toss them aside, thinking, perhaps, that they are not as worthy of study as the more "glamourous" coins...".

Adam's group of coins may be a 'pocket spill' from a 'junk box' accumulation; no way of telling.

As to ID-ing the coins, CRU has ID-ed #3 (image 6-1) as originating in the Constantine era; and he uses the phrase GLORIA EXERCITVS. Cru, one of the most knowledgable on this list, knows that Gloria Exercitvs describes only the general image on the coin's reverse. The phrase means "Glory of the Army" and there are enough differences in the various devices on this image to constitute an interesting area of study.

Constantine knew the value of keeping good relations with his army. Some incentives were increased pay, land grants, bonuses (and bribes), reduction in required length of service and.........praising his army on his coinage; ergo: GLORIA EXERCITVS.

Some of the image variations include:
A. Two soldiers with one standard, and either 'M' 'X' or 'Y' in the standard
B. Two soldiers, one stadard with "Chi-Rho'
C. Two soldiers, two standards, circles with dots
D. Two soldiers, two standards, wreath between standards.
E. etc.

The initials in the exergue, below the "GE" scene, abbreviate the name and location of where the coin was minted. Knowing those letters might also assist in narrowing down the date the coin was issued.
Don.....

You're correct, the 2 Soldier variants are the most common coin & therefore the least studied. Thats one reason my Dad started paying more attention to them when logging.

 

[trixie charger]

Don,

Myself and Eric are just trying to help by suggesting other possibility's, abet a long stretch but I have found you never know the truth until you look at all possibility's. Also I do not know anyone who would walk around with numerous Romans in a camp? lol!!! if you do I'll pitch a tent.

 

[CRUSADER]

Don,

Myself and Eric are just trying to help by suggesting other possibility's, abet a long stretch but I have found you never know the truth until you look at all possibility's. Also I do not know anyone who would walk around with Romans in a swamp?.

Where's your open mind now, anything can get anywhere. I can gives 100s of situations which make no sense. I'm discounting nothing, but with logic & probability you can narrow the options.

 

[timekiller]

Not sure but the very first coin looks like this one BIRDMAN posted in this thread the 6th post I think.If it is might help the ones ID it as it's in better shape.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,294198.0.html

 

[Silver Searcher]

The Native American Mound story peaked my curiosity. My Paw Paw would tell me stories about when he was young in West Virginia. In 1939 he was 7yr old, he would play in the crawl space under their house. He was digging to make a larger play area and about a foot down he started finding beads and strings of leather, then arrowheads. He kept digging and found a small pouch with odd coins, a axe head then he found a bone which later he found out was femur. He got scared and got his dad, he called the doctor/coroner/mortician they where one in the same back there and the sheriff. The house had been in the family sense the late 1700's we think 1789 not positive. So whatever was there was already there when the house was built. They exhumed the body and the artifacts and it was a Native American burial site, they took everything and {there is no way to be sure} told them they thought maybe 1400's. I showed Paw Paw the pictures of the coins and some others, the only one he remembers is the first Pic which is also the one Timekiller posted. If this is correct and the estimated timeline is close then would history be wrong? or if correct then maybe Christopher Columbus {1492} brought them for trade with the Natives?. My grate Grandfather was white and my grate Grandmother was Cherokee maybe they circulated through the Tribes and got distributed throughout North America.

Neat story, I wonder though if some of these finds are not decorative buttons from the 18th
century.Cause they did make that same coin I posted as a button also.And would date 18th century.


Circa late 18th century

Description: A die-stamped two-piece copper-alloy button with separate soldered wire shank (now missing). The button is in the form of a coin of the Roman period, depicting a right-facing, laureate bust of Septimius Severus. The back of the button has a reversed impression of the bust, caused by the manufacturing process.

The excavation of the now famous towns of Herculaneum and Pompeii in 1738 and 1748 stimulated an interest throughout the world in classical art. Buttons in the form of Roman coins date mainly from the second half of the 18th century and are, no doubt, a reflection of this interest.


http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=27943&cat=104

Pete I have one of those depicting Marcus Aurelius, they only have the Obverse image and legend, and nothing on the back, they are not made from genuine Roman coins

SS

 

[trixie charger]

Don,

Myself and Eric are just trying to help by suggesting other possibility's, abet a long stretch but I have found you never know the truth until you look at all possibility's. Also I do not know anyone who would walk around with Romans in a swamp?.

Where's your open mind now, anything can get anywhere. I can gives 100s of situations which make no sense. I'm discounting nothing, but with logic & probability you can narrow the options.

Crus, I hit the post button to soon and was going to edit it first. P.S. Thank you for everything you do to help us all!

 

[timekiller]

The Native American Mound story peaked my curiosity. My Paw Paw would tell me stories about when he was young in West Virginia. In 1939 he was 7yr old, he would play in the crawl space under their house. He was digging to make a larger play area and about a foot down he started finding beads and strings of leather, then arrowheads. He kept digging and found a small pouch with odd coins, a axe head then he found a bone which later he found out was femur. He got scared and got his dad, he called the doctor/coroner/mortician they where one in the same back there and the sheriff. The house had been in the family sense the late 1700's we think 1789 not positive. So whatever was there was already there when the house was built. They exhumed the body and the artifacts and it was a Native American burial site, they took everything and {there is no way to be sure} told them they thought maybe 1400's. I showed Paw Paw the pictures of the coins and some others, the only one he remembers is the first Pic which is also the one Timekiller posted. If this is correct and the estimated timeline is close then would history be wrong? or if correct then maybe Christopher Columbus {1492} brought them for trade with the Natives?. My grate Grandfather was white and my grate Grandmother was Cherokee maybe they circulated through the Tribes and got distributed throughout North America.

Neat story, I wonder though if some of these finds are not decorative buttons from the 18th
century.Cause they did make that same coin I posted as a button also.And would date 18th century.


Circa late 18th century

Description: A die-stamped two-piece copper-alloy button with separate soldered wire shank (now missing). The button is in the form of a coin of the Roman period, depicting a right-facing, laureate bust of Septimius Severus. The back of the button has a reversed impression of the bust, caused by the manufacturing process.

The excavation of the now famous towns of Herculaneum and Pompeii in 1738 and 1748 stimulated an interest throughout the world in classical art. Buttons in the form of Roman coins date mainly from the second half of the 18th century and are, no doubt, a reflection of this interest.


http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=27943&cat=104

Pete I have one of those depicting Marcus Aurelius, they only have the Obverse image and legend, and nothing on the back, they are not made from genuine Roman coins

SS

Yea I gotcha SS,I was just saying that for some who might find something like this in the U.S. and don't know about the buttons being made that it could be miss classified.At first.
No I knew the ones posted was not a buttons.
All Good!

 

[CRUSADER]

Don,

Myself and Eric are just trying to help by suggesting other possibility's, abet a long stretch but I have found you never know the truth until you look at all possibility's. Also I do not know anyone who would walk around with Romans in a swamp?.

Where's your open mind now, anything can get anywhere. I can gives 100s of situations which make no sense. I'm discounting nothing, but with logic & probability you can narrow the options.

Crus, I hit the post button to soon and was going to edit it first. P.S. Thank you for everything you do to help us all!

Its OK, I'm not attacking you (I hope it doesn't seem that why), just turning it on its head. You do need to keep all options open at the start of your quest for the truth & I hope I've done this as my experience builds. I do try & help everyone, but its sad when some feel the need to pick holes in that help. (not you)